Stay Alert

[bfcmik]

Surely they can stay the night in their caravan if they use some common sense?

Apparently not

[TheFamilyCat]

Apparently not

I know there are rules but there is also common sense. The rules are for people with no common sense. Those with common sense can ignore the rules as long as they are using common sense.

Haven't you been reading this board.

[TVC15]

I know there are rules but there is also common sense. The rules are for people with no common sense. Those with common sense can ignore the rules as long as they are using common sense.

Haven't you been reading this board.

Naughty boy !

[Grumps]

The government instructed all non essential businesses to close it wasn't optional, I'm not quite sure where you've been recently!

And those non essential businesses are still shut.

[martin_p]

And those non essential businesses are still shut.

Like garden centres and golf courses?

[Grumps]

Like garden centres and golf courses?

So the thousands all going into London yesterday were off playing golf or buying plants, love to know where they are as I've never seen a golf course in a city centre

You're just arguing for arguing sakes, probably because it's me. Childish at best.

[martin_p]

So the thousands all going into London yesterday were off playing golf or buying plants, love to know where they are as I've never seen a golf course in a city centre

You're just arguing for arguing sakes, probably because it's me. Childish at best.

I used them merely as examples to show your assertion that all the businesses that are open now could have been open last week is wrong.

[Grumps]

I used them merely as examples to show your assertion that all the businesses that are open now could have been open last week is wrong.

We're talking workers, so both of those will have been open for people who work there
Golf courses would still have greenkeepers

Garden centres will still have had staff looking after the plants, many did online orders and deliveries

The difference is that both are now open to the public, the business wasn't, or didn't need to be shut.

[martin_p]

We're talking workers, so both of those will have been open for people who work there
Golf courses would still have greenkeepers

Garden centres will still have had staff looking after the plants, many did online orders and deliveries

The difference is that both are now open to the public, the business wasn't, or didn't need to be shut.

You can wriggle all you want on this, but if you don’t understand why the government encouraging those that can’t work at home to go into work as opposed to saying ‘stay home’ makes a difference you’re not going to be convinced by actual examples anyway. Garage up the road from me has been open for the first time this week since lockdown as another example.

[martin_p]

Here’s an interesting little snippet from a Downing Street ‘source’.

‘ Sources inside Downing Street have told CNN that Johnson himself thought the message was confusing. “Filming was a total nightmare. He was stopping and starting, asking to change bits, complaining about the length, saying it was all too complex,” said one government source who was not permitted to speak on the record.’

[Grumps]

You can wriggle all you want on this, but if you don’t understand why the government encouraging those that can’t work at home to go into work as opposed to saying ‘stay home’ makes a difference you’re not going to be convinced by actual examples anyway. Garage up the road from me has been open for the first time this week since lockdown as another example.

Me wriggle

Why wasn't your garage open last week?

The advice was always to work from home if you can

Those that cannot work from home have always been able to go to work, many businesses, firms whatever you want to call them have remained open throughout if they were permitted.

If a business was permitted to be open, but chose to close, yet opened yesterday, what has changed?

All those non essential businesses like, most shops, hairdressers, pubs etc etc are still shut.

[martin_p]

Me wriggle

Why wasn't your garage open last week?

The advice was always to work from home if you can

Those that cannot work from home have always been able to go to work, many businesses, firms whatever you want to call them have remained open throughout if they were permitted.

If a business was permitted to be open, but chose to close, yet opened yesterday, what has changed?

The government advice!

[Grumps]

The government advice!

This? Which encourages businesses to remain open in April?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... s-covid-19

[martin_p]

This? Which encourages businesses to remain open in April?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... s-covid-19

So what’s your answer to the reason more people are at work since the latest government advice then? Magic?

[Grumps]

So what’s your answer to the reason more people are at work since the latest government advice then? Magic?

That's the very question I've asked.. Why? When if you read the advice I posted above those going to work yesterday, will always have been able to go to work if the business was open.
If the business was shut, why was it shut, but able to open yesterday? ( ignoring golf clubs and garden centres)

[Paul Waine]

So the thousands all going into London yesterday were off playing golf or buying plants, love to know where they are as I've never seen a golf course in a city centre

You're just arguing for arguing sakes, probably because it's me. Childish at best.

Hi Grumps, I've visited a few "virtual" golf courses in central London.

I agree, it didn't look like many of the people on the tube/bus/train in London yesterday were carrying golf clubs (thank goodness).

London R 0.4 (Covid-19 thread) - be interesting to see how it develops with everyone not social distancing on public transport.

[Jakubclaret]

And those non essential businesses are still shut.

I never said any different, it's not a question of choice.

[Grumps]

The discussion was about the businesses which could have stayed open, you jumped in saying government had told all non essential businesses to close... We weren't talking about them

The businesses told to shut originally are still shut, but that wasn't the point.

[Jakubclaret]

We're talking workers, so both of those will have been open for people who work there
Golf courses would still have greenkeepers

Garden centres will still have had staff looking after the plants, many did online orders and deliveries

The difference is that both are now open to the public, the business wasn't, or didn't need to be shut.

You don't seem to be understanding or just ignoring the facts - Even if the businesses were classed as essential & permitted to remain open throughout but as a result of the pandemic, all the supply chains & customers couldn't operate & function because of the impact the businesses had to shut because no work could be carried out, the aerospace industry is a good example at RR as a eg, BJ has said everybody can back go to work if it's safe to do so, but what if there's no work to return to, the blades aren't needed in volume because the planes aren't flying as often, people cannot manufacturer fresh air FFS.

[Grumps]

Hi Grumps, I've visited a few "virtual" golf courses in central London.

I agree, it didn't look like many of the people on the tube/bus/train in London yesterday were carrying golf clubs (thank goodness).

London R 0.4 (Covid-19 thread) - be interesting to see how it develops with everyone not social distancing on public transport.

I forgot about those courses
Though I don't think they will be open, so doesn't help Martins argument ( not much does tbh)
I have to admit unless forced to, I wouldnt be going on the tube at the moment

[Grumps]

You don't seem to be understanding or just ignoring the facts - Even if the businesses were classed as essential & permitted to remain open throughout but as a result of the pandemic, all the supply chains & customers couldn't operate & function because of the impact the businesses had to shut because no work could be carried out, the aerospace industry is a good example at RR as a eg, BJ has said everybody can back go to work if it's safe to do so, but what if there's no work to return to, the blades aren't needed in volume because the planes aren't flying as often, people cannot manufacturer fresh air FFS.

I fully understand it, thanks, perhaps you don't.

The example you give, was there suddenly new orders for them to work on yesterday? Or did they remain at home?
If they aren't going into work, or the company is still shut, they are not the ones iam talking about.

[jackmiggins]

Businesses that carried out adequate risk assessments and could assure safety from viral spread were never told to shut. The safest option for directors was to close unless they were happy with the working environment.

[jackmiggins]

Businesses that carried out adequate risk assessments and could assure safety from viral spread were never told to shut. The safest option for directors was to close unless they were happy with the working environment.

[aggi]

I see that the Far Right are behind this Freedom Movement stuff.

[Jakubclaret]

The discussion was about the businesses which could have stayed open, you jumped in saying government had told all non essential businesses to close... We weren't talking about them

The businesses told to shut originally are still shut, but that wasn't the point.

Where I work there were forced to shut but are now reopen, so there aren't originally still shut, the lockdown rules are chaotic at best, the businesses have reopened (some) whether essential or non essential, Sundays speech moved from compulsory to discretionary.

[Devils_Advocate]

I see that the Far Right are behind this Freedom Movement stuff.

They should survey the attendees on whether they support a no deal Brexit. Reckon the correlation would be pretty high

[Grumps]

Where I work there were forced to shut but are now reopen, so there aren't originally still shut, the lockdown rules are chaotic at best, the businesses have reopened (some) whether essential or non essential, Sundays speech moved from compulsory to discretionary.

Not for those who had been told to shut. I don't think it's discretionary for most shops to open... Hairdressers, barbers, pubs, restaurants, cafes, cinemas all remain shut. That is very clear

The people who suddenly went to work on Wednesday, or the companies that opened, were always allowed to. Just read the government document posted above dated 7th April.

[martin_p]

That's the very question I've asked.. Why? When if you read the advice I posted above those going to work yesterday, will always have been able to go to work if the business was open.
If the business was shut, why was it shut, but able to open yesterday? ( ignoring golf clubs and garden centres)

And the answer is, as you’ve been told several times, because of what the PM said on Sunday.

[fatboy47]

received_263057131556120.jpeg (52.27 KiB) Viewed 1504 times

[Grumps]

And the answer is, as you’ve been told several times, because of what the PM said on Sunday.

So what is it you think he said other than encouraging people to return to work..... The same people who could have returned to work last week!!

[Paul Waine]

I forgot about those courses
Though I don't think they will be open, so doesn't help Martins argument ( not much does tbh)
I have to admit unless forced to, I wouldnt be going on the tube at the moment

Yes, I can't see any virtual golf places will be open. Only there for office workers to have a few drinks together - and I doubt there are any office workers heading back to central London any time soon.

One of the benefits of retiring (31st March) that I don't have to travel in until I want to.

One of the "benefits" I'm losing - I've not used my +65 free travel card since 4th March. I wonder if I can claim a refund?

[diamondpocket]

So why didn't people return last week, Grumps?

[martin_p]

So what is it you think he said other than encouraging people to return to work..... The same people who could have returned to work last week!!

That’s all he said, but it had an impact, as demonstrated by the fact that in the days following him saying it more people have gone back to work. But then, as I’ve been saying consistently, the government messaging has been confused throughout the whole pandemic.

[Grumps]

That’s all he said, but it had an impact, as demonstrated by the fact that in the days following him saying it more people have gone back to work. But then, as I’ve been saying consistently, the government messaging has been confused throughout the whole pandemic.

So they just needed a kick up the backside

[Grumps]

So why didn't people return last week, Grumps?

Who knows!!!

[diamondpocket]

Must have been that clear communication!

[jackmiggins]

So why didn't people return last week, Grumps?

Because those businesses closed their offices due to lack of safety to employees. Generally their employees will have been working from home, or furloughed. They can only open up if they, and their employees, feel it is now safe to do so.

[aggi]

They should survey the attendees on whether they support a no deal Brexit. Reckon the correlation would be pretty high

Simulataneously pushing for harsher penalties for breaking lockdown.
https://www.britainfirst.org/harsh-puni ... down-rules

[jackmiggins]

Think people are confusing general businesses with shops/leisure establishments?

[Burnley Ace]

Oh okay thank you I get it now. It’s so lucky you post on here or else I’d have been stuck. Thanks again.

You do give that impression.

[ksrclaret]

You do give that impression.

Sorry, are you allowed to give impressions at the moment? I’ve not seen any such guidance.

[Vintage Claret]

They should survey the attendees on whether they support a no deal Brexit. Reckon the correlation would be pretty high

Or better still get them all to sign a form waiving their rights to NHS treatment should they contract Covid-19..

[nil_desperandum]

Or better still get them all to sign a form waiving their rights to NHS treatment should they contract Covid-19..

I don't disagree with the point that you make, but you could say the same for all those who smoke despite the health risks being flagged up very clearly on every packet.

[Devils_Advocate]

Simulataneously pushing for harsher penalties for breaking lockdown.
https://www.britainfirst.org/harsh-puni ... down-rules

And surprise surprise the group oranising the March is a registered business ran by Jadan Fransen the far right former deputy leader of Britain First.

What the f*ck has this country become since Brexit and the growth of this nationalistic right wing brand of vile populist politics.

Edit: A bit of wider research and its not as clear cut but as the same time maybe more dubious.

Several newly registered limited company's have popped up with various naming alternatives using UK Movement Freedom as the 3 main words of choice.

The named people all seem to have ties to Britain first including Fransen and her boyfriend Richard Inman however the actual company linked to the march just happens to be the faceless one which cannot be tied back to anyone

Looks like Britain First have pushed the general idea of the 'Freedom Movement' tag and created the fervour but have then ensured they are distanced from the specific group used to set off the grenades

[chadders]

Just popped into our local co-op. No social distancing, no one being alert it was just like any regular day before lockdown. One lad pushed passed me on a narrow isle. Folk ignoring the arrows, close queues. Sun's out and folk gathering and chatting outside like its a weekend. Must be safe obviously.

[TVC15]

And surprise surprise the group oranising the March is a registered business ran by Jadan Fransen the far right former deputy leader of Britain First.

What the f*ck has this country become since Brexit and the growth of this nationalistic right wing brand of vile populist politics.

Sadly I’m not sure it’s a matter of “become” - I think it’s been there bubbling under for many years. All Brexit did was act as a catalyst and for some people a warped justification for what they have felt for a long time.
You only have to look at the main people who were the main protagonists and some of the things they have said and done to see this.
And before anyone raises it - no that does not mean all people who voted Brexit are racists - I don’t believe anybody with half a brain as ever said that (actually it maybe more that people with half a brain do say that !)

Whether all racists voted to leave is a very different question....

[tiger76]

Just popped into our local co-op. No social distancing, no one being alert it was just like any regular day before lockdown. One lad pushed passed me on a narrow isle. Folk ignoring the arrows, close queues. Sun's out and folk gathering and chatting outside like its a weekend. Must be safe obviously.

I seriously despair,if people can't even follow arrows when they've been clearly laid out,then there's no hope of them understanding more nuanced guidance,and i'll wager a fair number of those very same people will be out 'clapping for carers' at 8 PM tonight.The lack of self-awareness is mind blowing sometimes.

[chadders]

Perhaps I was just unlucky with all the village idiots out in force. I'm in Devon and its pretty rural but even so, we did have a significant death in the community recently. Confidence wasn't helped by a coughing sales assistant

[FactualFrank]

Captain's log, star date 13th May:

00.01 Boris lifts restrictions, work as normal in England.
00.45 Scousers burgle Dele Ali's home.

Didn't take them long to get back to 'work'.

[Vintage Claret]

I seriously despair,if people can't even follow arrows when they've been clearly laid out,then there's no hope of them understanding more nuanced guidance,and i'll wager a fair number of those very same people will be out 'clapping for carers' at 8 PM tonight.The lack of self-awareness is mind blowing sometimes.

Indeed.
I went to my local Spar store today, they have a red/green traffic light system to limit the number of people coming in and out of the store. Great.
They have a one way system down the aisles with 2m spacing stickers. Again great.
Come to the 2 tills, 2m line marking, perspex protecting the staff, contactless only. Again great.
Just as I'd paid, and was about to head for the door, 2 guys walked in together, shook hands with a member of staff stood near the door, ignored the one way lines and headed straight for the till behind me, passing me by about a foot.