Schools

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Silkyskills1
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Re: Schools

Post by Silkyskills1 » Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:33 pm

'procedures there can be controlled'

Could you just clarify the controlled procedures you expect to see in a standard classroom size for 25/30 very young children for around 6 hours a day. This would also include meaningful practices for said children as part of their learning experience. Otherwise what's the point of them being there unless it's just a reinforcement of getting back to 'normal'
By the way, I'm still awaiting your list of Johnson's leadership qualities thus far and for the future.

Colburn_Claret
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Re: Schools

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:44 pm

Silkyskills1 wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:33 pm
'procedures there can be controlled'

Could you just clarify the controlled procedures you expect to see in a standard classroom size for 25/30 very young children for around 6 hours a day. This would also include meaningful practices for said children as part of their learning experience. Otherwise what's the point of them being there unless it's just a reinforcement of getting back to 'normal'
By the way, I'm still awaiting your list of Johnson's leadership qualities thus far and for the future.
For a start they aren't running around the local beauty spot, coming into contact with God knows who, or God knows from where. Children coming into contact with other children, should not be an issue according to all the data we have seen over the last 4 months. Who they come into contact with, once they leave school, should be controlled by the parents. Nobody is suggesting they leave school and visit Granny in the local Nursing Home.
From what we've learnt over the last 4 months, why do you think they shouldn’t return to school?

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Re: Schools

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:47 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:44 pm
For a start they aren't running around the local beauty spot, coming into contact with God knows who, or God knows from where. Children coming into contact with other children, should not be an issue according to all the data we have seen over the last 4 months. Who they come into contact with, once they leave school, should be controlled by the parents. Nobody is suggesting they leave school and visit Granny in the local Nursing Home.
From what we've learnt over the last 4 months, why do you think they shouldn’t return to school?

Children from reception, year 1 and 6 have all been running around local beauty spots for the last 4 months?

TVC15
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Re: Schools

Post by TVC15 » Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:51 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:44 pm
For a start they aren't running around the local beauty spot, coming into contact with God knows who, or God knows from where. Children coming into contact with other children, should not be an issue according to all the data we have seen over the last 4 months. Who they come into contact with, once they leave school, should be controlled by the parents. Nobody is suggesting they leave school and visit Granny in the local Nursing Home.
From what we've learnt over the last 4 months, why do you think they shouldn’t return to school?
It doesn’t matter if a few kids and children get riddled with the virus anyway does it ? There will still be 80m people in the UK who haven’t had it.
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Silkyskills1
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Re: Schools

Post by Silkyskills1 » Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:04 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:44 pm
For a start they aren't running around the local beauty spot, coming into contact with God knows who, or God knows from where. Children coming into contact with other children, should not be an issue according to all the data we have seen over the last 4 months. Who they come into contact with, once they leave school, should be controlled by the parents. Nobody is suggesting they leave school and visit Granny in the local Nursing Home.
From what we've learnt over the last 4 months, why do you think they shouldn’t return to school?
Sounds as though their 'running around' has been an inconvenience to you and they should be shifted en masse to a common area as quickly as possible. 'Raus,schnell.
I accept their carer's responsibility pre-school and post-scbool but you've omitted procedures for the 6 hours in between.
With a dangerously high 'r' rate in this area currently I don't see a return to school as.being safe sensible nor really practical.or.worthwhile. Mind you, if they are getting under your feet whilst.off school.I can only sympathise with your dilemma.
Anything yet on Johnson's.leadership qualities?

huw.Y.WattfromWare
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Re: Schools

Post by huw.Y.WattfromWare » Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:38 pm

They are obsessed with getting youngest children back to school. At that age kids are like sponges and absorb fairly quickly. A few months off schooling won’t seriously harm them.
My concern is for the 16 & 18yos whose life decisions lie in front of them. Get these kids back, delay exams and give them a fair chance of the future they have worked for.

Is there a possibility they want the youngest back to free up the parents for back to work?
Just asking.
Since writing this I have come across this clip from tomorrows Sunday Times. Yet again it is the teenagers who are suffering instead of being the priority.
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Colburn_Claret
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Re: Schools

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:16 am

TVC15 wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:51 pm
It doesn’t matter if a few kids and children get riddled with the virus anyway does it ? There will still be 80m people in the UK who haven’t had it.
In what way do a few kids get 'riddled' with the virus. All the stats show that kids are not susceptible to the affects of the virus. It shouldn't matter if they do get the virus. The important thing is that children are kept away from vulnerable adults. It's not a difficult concept. I don't care if I get this virus, I know I'm strong enough to fight it. I would care very much about passing it on to others. That doesn't mean that I have to live in a hole, just be sensible, act responsibly. Take the precautions, follow the guidelines, and self isolate if I get any symptoms until it's passed.
If children don't come into contact with any at risk groups, if teachers don't come into contact with any at risk groups, then there is absolutely no need for them to avoid school. Outside school they should continue to carry out social distancing, and where they can't, wear masks and gloves.

I know many of you disagree, but apart from the snidey comments, water off a ducks back, none of you have actually said why I'm wrong. What is wrong with allowing people young and old, to mix in a controlled environment, but carry on with the present guidelines outside of that environment.

tiger76
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Re: Schools

Post by tiger76 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:03 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:16 am
In what way do a few kids get 'riddled' with the virus. All the stats show that kids are not susceptible to the affects of the virus. It shouldn't matter if they do get the virus. The important thing is that children are kept away from vulnerable adults. It's not a difficult concept. I don't care if I get this virus, I know I'm strong enough to fight it. I would care very much about passing it on to others. That doesn't mean that I have to live in a hole, just be sensible, act responsibly. Take the precautions, follow the guidelines, and self isolate if I get any symptoms until it's passed.
If children don't come into contact with any at risk groups, if teachers don't come into contact with any at risk groups, then there is absolutely no need for them to avoid school. Outside school they should continue to carry out social distancing, and where they can't, wear masks and gloves.

I know many of you disagree, but apart from the snidey comments, water off a ducks back, none of you have actually said why I'm wrong. What is wrong with allowing people young and old, to mix in a controlled environment, but carry on with the present guidelines outside of that environment.
Your post embodies common sense and responsibility CC, the problem we have in this country is far too many in the population can't exercise either.

I assume there was no children, parents and teachers partaking in the protesting yesterday.

The reality could be that we have to live with this virus for a considerable time, so therefore we have to adapt our behaviour and find solutions, as it's just not practical to shut down schools indefinitely.

I agree protect the vulnerable, but let's get everybody else back to work, and get the economy moving.

It's hardly like people are staying at home anyway, witness the crowded beaches, and the thousands of protesters over recent days and weeks.

Silkyskills1
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Re: Schools

Post by Silkyskills1 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:06 pm

Still no mention of 'the procedures' to be applied in a school. You do realise there is very limited space available in classrooms. For any level of 'normal' to occur it would require more space and more staff. Neither are available.

tiger76
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Re: Schools

Post by tiger76 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:14 pm

Silkyskills1 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:06 pm
Still no mention of 'the procedures' to be applied in a school. You do realise there is very limited space available in classrooms. For any level of 'normal' to occur it would require more space and more staff. Neither are available.
Maybe we need to think more creatively, outdoor schools, schools held in venues which currently aren't being used cinemas, museums, theatres spring readily to mind, easy enough to socially distance in those places, other countries in Europe are employing strategies such as these.

Nobody is suggesting that 30 pupils will cram into a classroom that would be madness, but there is alternatives if schools really want to return.

If we're waiting for a vaccine to be found before opening up schools, then it could seriously impact this generation for years to come.

ClaretMov
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Re: Schools

Post by ClaretMov » Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:22 pm

Tiger76 Said

"schools held in venues which currently aren't being used cinemas, museums, theatres spring readily to mind, easy enough to socially distance in those places"

I don't even know how to begin with explaining what's wrong with this suggestion for you, but for a start the security of the building and toilets for 3 4 5 and 6 year olds would be a nightmare never mind anything else

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Re: Schools

Post by TVC15 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:25 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:16 am
In what way do a few kids get 'riddled' with the virus. All the stats show that kids are not susceptible to the affects of the virus. It shouldn't matter if they do get the virus.
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tiger76
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Re: Schools

Post by tiger76 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:35 pm

ClaretMov wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:22 pm
Tiger76 Said

"schools held in venues which currently aren't being used cinemas, museums, theatres spring readily to mind, easy enough to socially distance in those places"

I don't even know how to begin with explaining what's wrong with this suggestion for you, but for a start the security of the building and toilets for 3 4 5 and 6 year olds would be a nightmare never mind anything else
So what's your solution then? anywhere with young children will be a logistical nightmare, but surely older age groups could adapt easier, so in that case send older age groups back, and let the younger children continue at home. It's unfair to penalise pupils who through no fault of their own can't attend classes, and who could suffer in the longer term.

What happened to the can do attitude in this country, all i'm hearing is why children can't attend, not how we find solutions.

ClaretMov
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Re: Schools

Post by ClaretMov » Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:46 pm

"so in that case send older age groups back, and let the younger children continue at home"

This is what most staff in education would prefer, the government picked the wrong age group to go back first and hope they will socially distance 2, 3, 4 and 5 years olds will not do this because they are to young. The problem is not going back its the age group, Nursery's, reception and year one is not the right start.

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Re: Schools

Post by AndrewJB » Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:50 pm

ClaretMov wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:22 pm
Tiger76 Said

"schools held in venues which currently aren't being used cinemas, museums, theatres spring readily to mind, easy enough to socially distance in those places"

I don't even know how to begin with explaining what's wrong with this suggestion for you, but for a start the security of the building and toilets for 3 4 5 and 6 year olds would be a nightmare never mind anything else
The Danes have reopened and repurposed public buildings for use as schools. Don’t have the details on how it works exactly, but it’s been done.

ClaretMov
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Re: Schools

Post by ClaretMov » Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:07 pm

AndrewJB wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:50 pm
The Danes have reopened and repurposed public buildings for use as schools. Don’t have the details on how it works exactly, but it’s been done.

Danish children don't start school until they are six

Covid death's in Denmark 550
Covid death's in the uk 41,000........A massive difference all round

Colburn_Claret
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Re: Schools

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:10 pm

Silkyskills1 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:06 pm
Still no mention of 'the procedures' to be applied in a school. You do realise there is very limited space available in classrooms. For any level of 'normal' to occur it would require more space and more staff. Neither are available.
I think you misunderstand me. I personally, wouldn't enforce social distancing within the confines of the schools. As I said already, the pupils are the least at risk demographic of the whole population. It isn't necessary imo.
Controlling who these children meet outside school is necessary, and should be down to parental responsibility.

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Re: Schools

Post by ksrclaret » Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:30 pm

I’m with Colburn on this particular issue.

Keep social distancing in schools until summer, but in September I think we’ve got to abandon social distancing inside the classroom. If not, the impact on education will be absolutely catastrophic and it will be the kids from the poorest families that take the biggest hit. There will be huge gaps in qualifications, knowledge and skills for an entire generation. That cannot be allowed to happen.

Silkyskills1
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Re: Schools

Post by Silkyskills1 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:39 pm

But Colburn has just said he/she 'wouldn't enforce social distancing'. You've just said you 'agree on this particular issue' but then would continue with social distancing. Now I'm confused.

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Re: Schools

Post by ksrclaret » Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:42 pm

Silkyskills1 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:39 pm
But Colburn has just said he/she 'wouldn't enforce social distancing'. You've just said you 'agree on this particular issue' but then would continue with social distancing. Now I'm confused.
Yeah sorry I’d misread his post, thinking he meant from September onwards.

To clarify, I think social distancing is necessary right now until the summer holidays as we battle this. From September though, we’ve got to take the view that on balance education will need to proceed as close to normally as possible or as I’ve said the impacts will be catastrophic.

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Re: Schools

Post by tiger76 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:49 pm

ClaretMov wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 1:46 pm
"so in that case send older age groups back, and let the younger children continue at home"

This is what most staff in education would prefer, the government picked the wrong age group to go back first and hope they will socially distance 2, 3, 4 and 5 years olds will not do this because they are to young. The problem is not going back its the age group, Nursery's, reception and year one is not the right start.
On this we agree, it's bonkers to enforce social distancing on toddlers, but older children should understand the need to adhere to these limits, and they're old enough to abide to the rules, and still socialise with their peers.

Mental health is an important consideration in this, teenagers in particular are social animals, and they'll be adversely affected by the isolation, and that's even before their futures are decided, this stress will weigh heavily on them.

Have exams been cancelled everywhere in the UK, i know they have in Scotland, and if they have how will grades be determined.

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Re: Schools

Post by ksrclaret » Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:56 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:49 pm

Have exams been cancelled everywhere in the UK, i know they have in Scotland, and if they have how will grades be determined.
They have. We have been asked to estimate an A Level grade for each of our students, based on their performance in class, formative assessments, mock results and previous data. By that I mean the predictions we make for a class must be in line with the grades each teacher has achieved in the last couple of years. That's because the estimated grades are subject to moderation and if they are found to be on average a grade higher than the year before, everyone in that class/ subject/ school will have their grade brought down by one. It's been incredibly tough to produce a set of estimates and you know some students will have lost out big time.

I saw earlier up the thread that an article has suggested we might have to do the same next for next year's cohort. That doesn't even bear thinking about.
Last edited by ksrclaret on Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Silkyskills1
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Re: Schools

Post by Silkyskills1 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:57 pm

The grades are determined by their teachers. Each year they provide 'predicted grades' and so these will be used to determine a final outome. At least this has been a generally healthy exchange of views with little in the way of caustic comment.

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Re: Schools

Post by Silkyskills1 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:58 pm

The grades are determined by their teachers. Each year they provide 'predicted grades' and so these will be used to determine a final outome. At least this has been a generally healthy exchange of views with little in the way of caustic comment.

Edit; please get rid.of.this as it is a repeat post
Last edited by Silkyskills1 on Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

ClaretMov
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Re: Schools

Post by ClaretMov » Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:00 pm

Older children should be back in school in smaller classes and 2 metre apart but the government decided to experiment with the children age group that can't distance

tiger76
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Re: Schools

Post by tiger76 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:09 pm

ksrclaret wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:42 pm
Yeah sorry I’d misread his post, thinking he meant from September onwards.

To clarify, I think social distancing is necessary right now until the summer holidays as we battle this. From September though, we’ve got to take the view that on balance education will need to proceed as close to normally as possible or as I’ve said the impacts will be catastrophic.
We might be in a much better place regarding CV by September hopefully, and if that's the case great, ideally you'd like to get back to some near normality if at all possible.

I work in a university and there's lots of debate around remote teaching when the new intake start in September, but as far as we aware ATM, there will be some form of face-to-face teaching and lectures, but these may have to be restricted to a limited number of students, due to social distance measures. Like everybody else we're in a waiting game to see what develops, and we'll have to be flexible and adapt if required to changing circumstances.

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Re: Schools

Post by tybfc » Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:26 pm

tiger76 - My lad has just had an email from Bangor University stating that they are hoping to start again in September with some face to face lectures but that they are geared up totally for all to be done online if needs be or if students need to isolate.

He is due to complete his third of a four year degree in July and has spent it in New Zealand where he, sorry I, has invested in a remote set up for him to access the university at Bangor from there whilst he took his placement year.

Because of the uncertainty in the UK and that you cannot even access Wales at present he rang me today saying that he wants to stay in New Zealand for a further twelve months and complete his final year there and complete his lectures remotely.

Would you imagine he would be well received by the University by making this decision or are they likely to insist that he returns to the UK?

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Re: Schools

Post by ksrclaret » Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:43 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:09 pm
We might be in a much better place regarding CV by September hopefully, and if that's the case great, ideally you'd like to get back to some near normality if at all possible.

I work in a university and there's lots of debate around remote teaching when the new intake start in September, but as far as we aware ATM, there will be some form of face-to-face teaching and lectures, but these may have to be restricted to a limited number of students, due to social distance measures. Like everybody else we're in a waiting game to see what develops, and we'll have to be flexible and adapt if required to changing circumstances.
I desperately hope that's the case. Even if we're not where we want to be in September, I still think we've got to make an almighty effort to get education back on track for every student full-time. I think we can manage the damage done so far, but if it extends into the next academic year it will be irreparable for many. Maybe it is already for some.

Interesting comments about your work at a University, too. I know many of my students are very fearful of what their University experience will look like and indeed lots are considering deferring. I think the Universities like yours that are trying to find solutions to get students on campus and in lectures as much as possible will fare much better. Those that have already declared a full time table of online teaching may well find themselves with some even deeper holes to fill in their finances.

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Re: Schools

Post by tiger76 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:13 pm

tybfc wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:26 pm
tiger76 - My lad has just had an email from Bangor University stating that they are hoping to start again in September with some face to face lectures but that they are geared up totally for all to be done online if needs be or if students need to isolate.

He is due to complete his third of a four year degree in July and has spent it in New Zealand where he, sorry I, has invested in a remote set up for him to access the university at Bangor from there whilst he took his placement year.

Because of the uncertainty in the UK and that you cannot even access Wales at present he rang me today saying that he wants to stay in New Zealand for a further twelve months and complete his final year there and complete his lectures remotely.

Would you imagine he would be well received by the University by making this decision or are they likely to insist that he returns to the UK?
I'm afraid i'm not that high up the food chain ty to give you a definitive answer, i do know that my university (Glasgow) is trying to be as understanding about student's personal circumstances as they can be, but he'll have to contact his own institution, and see what their particular policy is regarding remote study, as far as i'm aware there's no national directives, so it'll be down to each individual university to make the decisions they see fit, i would have thought in the current circumstances they'd be receptive to any reasonable demands from their students, but he'd need to get clarity from Bangor what their advice on his specific concerns might be.

Hope he gets a solution that's suitable anyway, whatever that maybe. I'd say if he can access materials and online learning easily enough in NZ to complete his course, why not stay out there, it's not a bad part of the world to spend a year in from what I've heard. :)

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Re: Schools

Post by tybfc » Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:04 pm

The Government has now scrapped plans to get all primary school kids into class before summer holidays.

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Re: Schools

Post by fanzone » Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:17 pm

Unless the 2 meter rule is scrapped they can scrap the plans to get back to full time school in September aswell, it's very apparent now there isn't enough teachers or space to accommodate all students in the schools.

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Re: Schools

Post by Silkyskills1 » Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:17 pm

Thankfully, the message has permeated through. Just not enough room nor staff.

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Re: Schools

Post by martin_p » Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:22 pm

fanzone wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:17 pm
Unless the 2 meter rule is scrapped they can scrap the plans to get back to full time school in September aswell, it's very apparent now there isn't enough teachers or space to accommodate all students in the schools.
It’s been very apparent since forever for anyone who has ever set foot in a school.
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Steve-Harpers-perm
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Re: Schools

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:29 pm

What a surprise to see the media announce it first. Still nothing on D of E website.

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