Dominic Cummings

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Grumps
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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by Grumps » Wed May 27, 2020 7:22 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 11:48 pm
I’ve not posted on this since his press conference, I’ve been weighing it up in my head.

I remain of the view that he didn’t break either the law or the spirit of it with the trip to Durham (it was an interpretation of the rules like many of us have made, like when we said it was wrong for Derbyshire Police flying those drones over car parks - we had to stay at home but it wasn’t in every situation, and we would have been daft to follow it slavishly even at risk to welfare).

However, he probably did fall foul if he stopped for fuel while potentially contagious - a Discovery can’t do that many miles easily. That could become an issue to trip him up (if he has left things out of his story it would definitely make it a resigning matter).

The two genuine concerns I have about breaking the spirit of the law, of British fair play if you like, are the first day in London and the trip to Barnard Castle.

In London he ran home then later in the day went back to work despite his wife having serious symptoms and him possibly being asymptomatic and transmissable (saying she had no cough nor fever is a bit disingenuous, there was clearly a huge risk she had Covid).

A round trip to a beauty spot on Easter Sunday after 2 weeks of hell is understandable but is clearly a breach of the rules, it wasn’t for exercise it was to test his driving. Ironically outdoor recreation is now likely to be Ok with minimal transmission risk but this wasn’t clear at the time.

So the press conference made me more concerned, not less, and now the reasons to keep him become harder to justify. There are two - he is critical to the plans to reform the north and the civil service / establishment bubble, and I’m not a fan of witch hunt politics, too many good people lose jobs for minor indiscretions and we are all the worse for it. So I can see why Boris would keep him, but it will be so damaging to his reputation if he does, a no win situation, impossible for me to come down on one side or the other. They have buggered the whole thing up by being too stringent with the lockdown - a huge mistake, looking at Sweden.
I've always said, and I still do, that using the guidelines as he did, his move was within those guidelines. These guidelines were there for all to see and use in the same way
The waters have been muddied somewhat on here with all this talk about vulnerable children, and autism, neither of which Cummings has claimed. He stuck very firmly to the paragraph in the guidelines which states not all the rules, within the guidelines can be followed if there are children in the household.

I don't understand why the press, and some on here, are so hung up about stops at petrol stations. I've filled up many times, and I Carnt remember the last time I came within 20yds of anyone, you pay at the pump at most modern petrol stations.

The visit to Barnard Castle should be his downfall, for many reasons.

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by Zlatan » Wed May 27, 2020 7:47 am

Here’s a question for all the DC supporters.

If he was fully aware of the threat of Coronavirus in 2019 (a lie of course but humour me), why was our government so poorly prepared in 2020 when you consider he is the PMs most senior aide?

Surely he also failed in his duty there...?

So which is the right reason to sack him?

Incompetence or lying?

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by jojomk1 » Wed May 27, 2020 8:02 am

Boris due to be grilled by MP's committee today - should be good fun

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by CombatClaret » Wed May 27, 2020 8:12 am

jojomk1 wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 8:02 am
Boris due to be grilled by MP's committee today - should be good fun
"20 minutes have been allocated to discuss Cummings plus three other coronavirus topics."

No time for anything of substance, just repeats of the same BS answers from the PM and then on to next topic.

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Wed May 27, 2020 8:30 am

Grumps wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 7:22 am
I've always said, and I still do, that using the guidelines as he did, his move was within those guidelines. These guidelines were there for all to see and use in the same way
The waters have been muddied somewhat on here with all this talk about vulnerable children, and autism, neither of which Cummings has claimed. He stuck very firmly to the paragraph in the guidelines which states not all the rules, within the guidelines can be followed if there are children in the household.

I don't understand why the press, and some on here, are so hung up about stops at petrol stations. I've filled up many times, and I Carnt remember the last time I came within 20yds of anyone, you pay at the pump at most modern petrol stations.

The visit to Barnard Castle should be his downfall, for many reasons.
Yes I agree the Barnard Castle visit will be his downfall but the petrol one is because it would be impossible to fill up without potentially contaminating the pump with Coronavirus because he would have to handle it and the station gloves would be insufficient. That’s why we are told to stay indoors if anyone has symptoms in the family and above all wash our hands.

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by Grumps » Wed May 27, 2020 8:50 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 8:30 am
Yes I agree the Barnard Castle visit will be his downfall but the petrol one is because it would be impossible to fill up without potentially contaminating the pump with Coronavirus because he would have to handle it and the station gloves would be insufficient. That’s why we are told to stay indoors if anyone has symptoms in the family and above all wash our hands.
Why would gloves be insufficient? A fresh pair of gloves, disposed of correctly afterwards shouldn't cause problems.
Garages have been open throughout, and iam unaware of any advice saying they are not safe.
Of course, we don't know if he did stop for petrol, or if he did, whether he wore gloves or not.

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Wed May 27, 2020 9:19 am

Grumps wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 8:50 am
Why would gloves be insufficient? A fresh pair of gloves, disposed of correctly afterwards shouldn't cause problems.
Garages have been open throughout, and iam unaware of any advice saying they are not safe.
Of course, we don't know if he did stop for petrol, or if he did, whether he wore gloves or not.
I’d be very surprised if gloves of a quality provided in petrol stations can stop virus particles (100nm diameter) due to the small gaps between the fabric the glove is made of, and in any event there is a high risk currently that glove holders would be empty.

We don’t know if he stopped of course but I see that as a hole, no pun intended, in his story, given that he drives a gas guzzler.

I see his resignation, or at least demotion away from Covid responsibilities, as inevitable, but I remain uncomfortable with the sense that we sack people for what they did either when a partner is ill or days after they themselves were so ill they should have been hospitalised (he apparently had very low blood oxygen). I apply this logic to anyone, for example I wouldn’t suggest Leo Varadkar should resign for his picnic at the weekend, despite picnics being specifically not recommended ahead of the weekend, it doesn’t seem a sacking offence.

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by Lord Beamish » Wed May 27, 2020 9:26 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 9:19 am
I’d be very surprised if gloves of a quality provided in petrol stations can stop virus particles (100nm diameter) due to the small gaps between the fabric the glove is made of, and in any event there is a high risk currently that glove holders would be empty.

We don’t know if he stopped of course but I see that as a hole, no pun intended, in his story, given that he drives a gas guzzler.

I see his resignation, or at least demotion away from Covid responsibilities, as inevitable, but I remain uncomfortable with the sense that we sack people for what they did either when a partner is ill or days after they themselves were so ill they should have been hospitalised (he apparently had very low blood oxygen). I apply this logic to anyone, for example I wouldn’t suggest Leo Varadkar should resign for his picnic at the weekend, despite picnics being specifically not recommended ahead of the weekend, it doesn’t seem a sacking offence.
You’re also making the assumption that the arrogant b4stard bothered wearing the gloves.
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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by Grumps » Wed May 27, 2020 9:33 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 9:19 am
I’d be very surprised if gloves of a quality provided in petrol stations can stop virus particles (100nm diameter) due to the small gaps between the fabric the glove is made of, and in any event there is a high risk currently that glove holders would be empty.

We don’t know if he stopped of course but I see that as a hole, no pun intended, in his story, given that he drives a gas guzzler.

I see his resignation, or at least demotion away from Covid responsibilities, as inevitable, but I remain uncomfortable with the sense that we sack people for what they did either when a partner is ill or days after they themselves were so ill they should have been hospitalised (he apparently had very low blood oxygen). I apply this logic to anyone, for example I wouldn’t suggest Leo Varadkar should resign for his picnic at the weekend, despite picnics being specifically not recommended ahead of the weekend, it doesn’t seem a sacking offence.
Id never really thought of garage gloves, they're not available in normal times so I take my own, don't see it any different than a shopping trolly
He should resign just to take the conversation away from him, and back to the more important things that are going on

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by android » Wed May 27, 2020 9:57 am

Greenmile wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 11:39 pm
Hmm

https://www.google.co.uk/search?source= ... gws-wiz-hp

Now comes the part where you start talking about “the biased MSM” and their dastardly plot to oust the innocent Cummings because Brexit or something.
Ha ha it looks like you got me Greenmile - unprecedented times!
So Faisal of the BBC was correct and the Independent and the other sources I looked at were wrong (I think one of them was fullfact - so much for facts).
It just shows how frequently people are misquoted. Hope I have not been inaccurate with the other part of the quote about pandemic risk or in reference to the article linked to his blog about viruses, which included coronaviruses.
He should have just stuck to "viruses" in his press conference comment instead of over-egging the pudding with "coronaviruses" - like I said he's too clever by half.
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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by android » Wed May 27, 2020 9:58 am

aggi wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 11:58 pm
You should be fair and include the results from the other search

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22last ... e&ie=UTF-8
:lol:

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by Loyalclaret » Wed May 27, 2020 10:46 am

Grumps wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 9:33 am
Id never really thought of garage gloves, they're not available in normal times so I take my own, don't see it any different than a shopping trolly
He should resign just to take the conversation away from him, and back to the more important things that are going on
Lots of garages have plastic gloves avaiolabe on the bins in normal times.

Often see people using them in Burnley and Pendle

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by CombatClaret » Wed May 27, 2020 10:56 am

Haven't read this thread for a while but well done to the Cummings apologist for diverting so far away the discussion is now on petrol station gloves.

From the left wing Daily Mail
20200527_105610.jpg
20200527_105610.jpg (331.43 KiB) Viewed 3408 times
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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by Swizzlestick » Wed May 27, 2020 11:22 am

Weird how Ringo et al haven’t mentioned the latest approval ratings either.

Said when this first kicked off if the government didn’t kick this into touch, it’d be toxic for them. It makes Johnson look weak as **** and makes a mockery of the message. Most people, ‘the man on the street’ if you will, don’t like being taken for mugs, whatever their political stripes.
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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by tiger76 » Wed May 27, 2020 11:31 am

Zlatan wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 7:47 am
Here’s a question for all the DC supporters.

If he was fully aware of the threat of Coronavirus in 2019 (a lie of course but humour me), why was our government so poorly prepared in 2020 when you consider he is the PMs most senior aide?

Surely he also failed in his duty there...?

So which is the right reason to sack him?

Incompetence or lying?
Good :?: that thought did cross my mind about the lack of preparation,of course Cummings story about predicting coronavirus in 2019 is B.S and he must have known he'd be caught out when he edited his blog,he might be many things but i don't believe naive is one of them.

Can i pick both as an option.

BTW Zlatan don't expect a credible answer to your :?: you'll likely get more deflection and spin,it's getting predictable now.

This bull from Robert Jenrick this morning sums up how out of touch this government really is.

Time to 'move on' from Cummings row, says UK minister

UK Housing Secretary Robert Jenrick says it is time to “move on” from the row over Dominic Cummings’ trip to Durham.

More than 35 Conservative MPs have called for the prime minister's chief aide to leave his job but, when asked about that, Jenrick told the BBC: “No, he shouldn’t.

“He has given his explanation to the prime minister, who listened and concluded that he’d acted reasonably and legally.

“The prime minister asked him to give that statement on Monday to the public and to answer questions from journalists, he answered them for over an hour and now, I think, is the time for us all to move on.

“That’s not to say this isn’t an important issue or that people don’t care about it, but I think there’s a lot more that we need to focus on now.”

Jenrick also said there will not be a "formal review" over fines for those travelling for childcare. "It's for the police to decide whether to impose fines under the law," he said.

Health Secretary Matt Hancock said he would look at the issue with his Treasury colleagues on Tuesday.
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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by tiger76 » Wed May 27, 2020 11:42 am

Swizzlestick wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 11:22 am
Weird how Ringo et al haven’t mentioned the latest approval ratings either.

Said when this first kicked off if the government didn’t kick this into touch, it’d be toxic for them. It makes Johnson look weak as **** and makes a mockery of the message. Most people, ‘the man on the street’ if you will, don’t like being taken for mugs, whatever their political stripes.
This poll is worrying for the government,and bear in mind this was conducted before the Cummings saga broke,i wouldn't be :o to see Labour ahead in the polls soon,all most of the public want is basic competence in government and opposition,Johnson isn't showing that Starmer is so he'll reap the benefit.

CON: 44% (-4)
LAB: 38% (+5)

Via @YouGov.
Changes w/ 18-19 May.

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by Greenmile » Wed May 27, 2020 11:52 am

I can’t say I’m usually a big fan of the Daily Star, but I enjoyed this...


C43B4580-0262-4EFD-AEF4-15EBB6DAB854.jpeg
C43B4580-0262-4EFD-AEF4-15EBB6DAB854.jpeg (684.15 KiB) Viewed 3281 times
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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by Billy Balfour » Wed May 27, 2020 11:58 am

For all you gamers: Dominic Cummings Barnard Castle driving game now available on PS4!

https://bit.ly/2XBoMKC

There's a video of it here. Put the sound on.

https://twitter.com/stevie128k/status/1 ... 92/video/1
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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by tiger76 » Wed May 27, 2020 12:23 pm

Helpful timeline of events provided by the beeb,it doesn't make good reading for DC fans i see about 5/6 potential breaches of the guidance at worst,and 2/3 if i'm being generous,either way it's plain that he's in the wrong.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52784290

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by Buxtonclaret » Wed May 27, 2020 12:23 pm

CombatClaret wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 8:12 am
"20 minutes have been allocated to discuss Cummings plus three other coronavirus topics."

No time for anything of substance, just repeats of the same BS answers from the PM and then on to next topic.

I doubt very much that Benn will allow it to pass so easily.
Know any 'Wall Flies'? :lol:

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by claretandy » Wed May 27, 2020 12:31 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 8:30 am
Yes I agree the Barnard Castle visit will be his downfall but the petrol one is because it would be impossible to fill up without potentially contaminating the pump with Coronavirus because he would have to handle it and the station gloves would be insufficient. That’s why we are told to stay indoors if anyone has symptoms in the family and above all wash our hands.
He said that he fuelled up on the way home, (when he had recovered)

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by tiger76 » Wed May 27, 2020 12:33 pm

I see BoJo has already interfered with the liaison committee against normal protocol.

With the UK prime minister due to face a grilling from MPs on the liaison committee for the first time this afternoon, BBC Radio 5 Live has been hearing from Sarah Wollaston, a former Tory MP turned Liberal Democrat who used to chair the committee.

She said Mr Johnson "has a reputation for sometimes struggling with the detail" and is likely to face close scrutiny, despite appointing the committee chairman Bernard Jenkin himself rather than allowing a vote as is usual.

"We have the highest number of deaths in Europe so the prime minister needs to face some tough questions about why we’re doing so badly compared to others around the world," Dr Wollaston said, describing the estimated 60,000 excess deaths since the pandemic began as a "colossal number".

She said Mr Cummings, the prime minister's adviser accused of breaching lockdown with a 260-mile trip, "should be fired", saying his actions undermined public health, his circumstances were not exceptional, and his justifications were implausible.

"It would be laughable if it weren’t for the fact that 60,000 people have died already and we are now expecting a second wave," she said.

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by Tall Paul » Wed May 27, 2020 12:39 pm

claretandy wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 12:31 pm
He said that he fuelled up on the way home, (when he had recovered)
Got any polls for us andy?

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by Greenmile » Wed May 27, 2020 12:56 pm

android wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 9:57 am
Ha ha it looks like you got me Greenmile - unprecedented times!
So Faisal of the BBC was correct and the Independent and the other sources I looked at were wrong (I think one of them was fullfact - so much for facts).
It just shows how frequently people are misquoted. Hope I have not been inaccurate with the other part of the quote about pandemic risk or in reference to the article linked to his blog about viruses, which included coronaviruses.
He should have just stuck to "viruses" in his press conference comment instead of over-egging the pudding with "coronaviruses" - like I said he's too clever by half.
Looks like you were both right (sort of).

In his initial statement, he used the wording you attributed to him - only he said “threats” not “danger”, which is why a google search for your version doesn’t bring up any results apart from this thread. During the q&a, he used the words quoted by DA.

The difference, though, is that DA never implied that you had misquoted Cummings, as you seemed to accuse DA of.

Of course, the other relevant factor is that saying something truthful (if we accept for the sake of argument that the words you correctly attributed to him were truthful) does not negate a later lie. Ie whichever way you want to look at things, Cummings lied.
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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by tiger76 » Wed May 27, 2020 1:06 pm

I'd accuse the government of favouritism but then of course Mr Cummings did no wrong did he,whereas all these people did,yeah OK!

One rule for the elite,one rule for the rest of us welcome to Britain 2020.

The vicar who pressured Health Secretary Matt Hancock over a review of lockdown fines told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that it was "disappointing" to see the government row back on its offer to look into the matter.

After the prime minister's aide Dominic Cummings used childcare to justify a 260-mile trip during lockdown, the Rev Martin Poole from Brighton asked at the daily Downing Street briefing if that would mean other people fined for lockdown breaches who had been seeking childcare would see their penalties reviewed.

Mr Hancock told the briefing it was "a very good question" and that the government would "look at it", discuss it with the Treasury and make "an announcement from this podium". But later reports suggested that there would be no formal review, and Mr Hancock would just relay the concerns to the Treasury.

"I took him at his word. That was really nice to hear," said Mr Poole. "It’s a little disappointing to hear that they’ve rowed back on that."

A now ex-Conservative voter,they can whistle next time if they come canvassing at my door.

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by TVC15 » Wed May 27, 2020 1:09 pm

claretandy wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 12:31 pm
He said that he fuelled up on the way home, (when he had recovered)
He said he might have done but could not recall exactly.
Noticed during the questions more and more use of the old legal / get out of jail phrases
“As far I am aware”
“As far as I recall”
“I cannot say for sure”
“I’m 90% sure I did”

And that old legal eagle favourite :
“I drove 30 miles in the wrong direction on my wife’s birthday to a historical tourism spot to check if I was blind or not”

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by tiger76 » Wed May 27, 2020 1:10 pm

A quick update 37 Conservative MP'S publicly calling for Dominic Cummings to go,surely there's got to be a tipping point when his position is untenable hasn't there.

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by RingoMcCartney » Wed May 27, 2020 1:25 pm

Swizzlestick wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 11:22 am
Weird how Ringo et al haven’t mentioned the latest approval ratings either.

Said when this first kicked off if the government didn’t kick this into touch, it’d be toxic for them. It makes Johnson look weak as **** and makes a mockery of the message. Most people, ‘the man on the street’ if you will, don’t like being taken for mugs, whatever their political stripes.
Other people have already done it.

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by dsr » Wed May 27, 2020 1:27 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 1:06 pm
I'd accuse the government of favouritism but then of course Mr Cummings did no wrong did he,whereas all these people did,yeah OK!

One rule for the elite,one rule for the rest of us welcome to Britain 2020.

The vicar who pressured Health Secretary Matt Hancock over a review of lockdown fines told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that it was "disappointing" to see the government row back on its offer to look into the matter.

After the prime minister's aide Dominic Cummings used childcare to justify a 260-mile trip during lockdown, the Rev Martin Poole from Brighton asked at the daily Downing Street briefing if that would mean other people fined for lockdown breaches who had been seeking childcare would see their penalties reviewed.

Mr Hancock told the briefing it was "a very good question" and that the government would "look at it", discuss it with the Treasury and make "an announcement from this podium". But later reports suggested that there would be no formal review, and Mr Hancock would just relay the concerns to the Treasury.

"I took him at his word. That was really nice to hear," said Mr Poole. "It’s a little disappointing to hear that they’ve rowed back on that."

A now ex-Conservative voter,they can whistle next time if they come canvassing at my door.
How many fines have been issued on people out arranging childcare? The vicar concerned doesn't know of any and he's the one raising the issue. Let's at least find a name and address of someone affected before we launch a review.

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by jackmiggins » Wed May 27, 2020 1:31 pm

dsr wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 1:27 pm
How many fines have been issued on people out arranging childcare? The vicar concerned doesn't know of any and he's the one raising the issue. Let's at least find a name and address of someone affected before we launch a review.
What right have you to demand this? Doubt I’d want to give you details if I’d been, justifiably, fined for my own stupidity.

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by dsr » Wed May 27, 2020 1:33 pm

jackmiggins wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 1:31 pm
What right have you to demand this? Doubt I’d want to give you details if I’d been, justifiably, fined for my own stupidity.
I don't want the name and address. It's the government that needs the name and address before an expensive and time consuming inquiry is set up, to see if there is anything to enquire about. Has anyone been fined for arranging childcare?

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by tiger76 » Wed May 27, 2020 1:37 pm

dsr wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 1:27 pm
How many fines have been issued on people out arranging childcare? The vicar concerned doesn't know of any and he's the one raising the issue. Let's at least find a name and address of someone affected before we launch a review.
Fine let's see if any of them go public,i'll be :o if there's none in the whole of the UK,now it could turn out that the police have misinterpreted the guidance,it wouldn't the 1st time that's occurred ,and if that proves to be the case then the people concerned can expect their fines to be waived i'd imagine.

Now if it turns out there isn't anybody that's been fined well making childcare arrangements then fantastic it won't be an issue.

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by RingoMcCartney » Wed May 27, 2020 1:38 pm

What I find really fascinating is this.

Only a matter of days ago all the lefty / remoaners were criticising the government for its "muddled message" its "lack of clarity" "what does that actually mean!?"

Miraculously, since the weekend the fog has apparently lifted and now those very same people are absolutely cock sure of the guidelines! They're suddenly crystal clear! There is now a communal unequivocal understanding of what the government said! We've even seen people quoting " defined at Section 1c " showing just how crystal clear the government's message was after all!



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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by Grumps » Wed May 27, 2020 1:49 pm

dsr wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 1:33 pm
I don't want the name and address. It's the government that needs the name and address before an expensive and time consuming inquiry is set up, to see if there is anything to enquire about. Has anyone been fined for arranging childcare?
Stopping asking sensible questions.

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by Spijed » Wed May 27, 2020 1:59 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 1:38 pm
What I find really fascinating is this.

Only a matter of days ago all the lefty / remoaners were criticising the government for its "muddled message" its "lack of clarity" "what does that actually mean!?"
Is Steve Baker a lefty remoaner?

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by tiger76 » Wed May 27, 2020 2:01 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 1:38 pm
What I find really fascinating is this.

Only a matter of days ago all the lefty / remoaners were criticising the government for its "muddled message" its "lack of clarity" "what does that actually mean!?"

Miraculously, since the weekend the fog has apparently lifted and now those very same people are absolutely cock sure of the guidelines! They're suddenly crystal clear! There is now a communal unequivocal understanding of what the government said! We've even seen people quoting " defined at Section 1c " showing just how crystal clear the government's message was after all!



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What i find really fascinating is why your persisting in the brexit argument that's been settled we've left thank heavens i'm sure you'll agree.

Regarding the regulations i doubt many people will have read them chapter & verse,hence why many weren't aware of the loopholes Dominic Cummings seemingly was.

I certainly didn't i just listened to the main theme which was stay at home unless your journey is absolutely essential,now whether Dominic Cumming's journey to Durham was essential appears to be open to interpretation,and it's entirely possible if more families had been aware of those get out clauses they'd have made full use of them.

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by Grumps » Wed May 27, 2020 2:07 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 2:01 pm
What i find really fascinating is why your persisting in the brexit argument that's been settled we've left thank heavens i'm sure you'll agree.

Regarding the regulations i doubt many people will have read them chapter & verse,hence why many weren't aware of the loopholes Dominic Cummings seemingly was.

I certainly didn't i just listened to the main theme which was stay at home unless your journey is absolutely essential,now whether Dominic Cumming's journey to Durham was essential appears to be open to interpretation,and it's entirely possible if more families had been aware of those get out clauses they'd have made full use of them.
I didn't know about the paragraph regarding children, which Cummings relied on till it was mentioned on Saturday, it took me 30 secs to find them

Had I been in a situation prior to then where I needed to know the guidelines I would have looked them up at that time, and found what I could or couldn't do

Don't forget, all the adverts on tv and newspapers at the time, yes, they had the the headline stay at home message, but everyone one of them pointed people to the gov or NHS websites, where they would have found all the advice

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by Ashingtonclaret46 » Wed May 27, 2020 2:11 pm

CombatClaret wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 10:56 am
Haven't read this thread for a while but well done to the Cummings apologist for diverting so far away the discussion is now on petrol station gloves.

From the left wing Daily Mail
20200527_105610.jpg

Thanks combat for giving us a laugh.
The vast majority of posters on here decry the Daily Mail for whatever reasons they choose, no problem with that at all. However, it publishes the details as shown in your picture and this will all be taken as the gospel truth, even though the vast majority think that everything else they publish is all lies.
Many thanks.

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by tiger76 » Wed May 27, 2020 2:13 pm

Spijed wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 1:59 pm
Is Steve Baker a lefty remoaner?
If he is that's a helluva conversion. :lol:

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by tiger76 » Wed May 27, 2020 2:17 pm

Grumps wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 2:07 pm
I didn't know about the paragraph regarding children, which Cummings relied on till it was mentioned on Saturday, it took me 30 secs to find them

Had I been in a situation prior to then where I needed to know the guidelines I would have looked them up at that time, and found what I could or couldn't do

Don't forget, all the adverts on tv and newspapers at the time, yes, they had the the headline stay at home message, but everyone one of them pointed people to the gov or NHS websites, where they would have found all the advice
Yes i don't have children so that part wasn't relevant to my circumstances,but parents should have double-checked any possible exemptions to the rules,in case an emergency cropped up at short notice.

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by Devils_Advocate » Wed May 27, 2020 2:25 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 2:11 pm
Thanks combat for giving us a laugh.
The vast majority of posters on here decry the Daily Mail for whatever reasons they choose, no problem with that at all. However, it publishes the details as shown in your picture and this will all be taken as the gospel truth, even though the vast majority think that everything else they publish is all lies.
Many thanks.
You are aware that the actual polling being reported was conducted by a reputable polling company who have worked for the govt amongst others in this field

I have no time for the Daily Mail whether its supporting my viewpoint or against it but if you're gonna criticise them at least check your facts and have a go at them for something they've made up (it isn't hard to find) otherwise you just look like the very thing your having a go at.

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by android » Wed May 27, 2020 3:01 pm

Greenmile wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 12:56 pm
Looks like you were both right (sort of).

In his initial statement, he used the wording you attributed to him - only he said “threats” not “danger”, which is why a google search for your version doesn’t bring up any results apart from this thread. During the q&a, he used the words quoted by DA.

The difference, though, is that DA never implied that you had misquoted Cummings, as you seemed to accuse DA of.

Of course, the other relevant factor is that saying something truthful (if we accept for the sake of argument that the words you correctly attributed to him were truthful) does not negate a later lie. Ie whichever way you want to look at things, Cummings lied.
I see. That's reassuring thanks. Good to know that all the sources were actually correct in one way or another then. A bit naughty perhaps to use the Q&A quote rather than the bit he set out to say in the statement, but...well I'm boring myself now.

My main point, as I said from the outset, was to consider his comments in the full context of both his press conference quote about pandemic risk, the blog and the one scientific article on which his blog piece was almost entirely based (the heavy lifting bit in DA's view, not that heavy in mine).

I've exhausted my reservoir on this topic now. Incredible really how much time this episode is occupying.

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by joey13 » Wed May 27, 2020 3:10 pm

claretandy wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 12:31 pm
He said that he fuelled up on the way home, (when he had recovered)
No he didn’t , he said he couldn’t remember

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by joey13 » Wed May 27, 2020 3:13 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 1:38 pm
What I find really fascinating is this.

Only a matter of days ago all the lefty / remoaners were criticising the government for its "muddled message" its "lack of clarity" "what does that actually mean!?"

Miraculously, since the weekend the fog has apparently lifted and now those very same people are absolutely cock sure of the guidelines! They're suddenly crystal clear! There is now a communal unequivocal understanding of what the government said! We've even seen people quoting " defined at Section 1c " showing just how crystal clear the government's message was after all!



🤣😂😅😆🤣🤣
So you are saying the message did lack clarity , you do understand irony don’t you ?

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by Damo » Wed May 27, 2020 3:18 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 2:01 pm
What i find really fascinating is why your persisting in the brexit argument that's been settled we've left thank heavens i'm sure you'll agree.

Regarding the regulations i doubt many people will have read them chapter & verse,hence why many weren't aware of the loopholes Dominic Cummings seemingly was.

I certainly didn't i just listened to the main theme which was stay at home unless your journey is absolutely essential,now whether Dominic Cumming's journey to Durham was essential appears to be open to interpretation,and it's entirely possible if more families had been aware of those get out clauses they'd have made full use of them.
I think people keep mentioning brexit, because there seems to be a disproportionate number of remainers who are absolutely livid because the man who master minded brexit went on a car journey.
You must be able to see a link like the rest of us?

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by Spijed » Wed May 27, 2020 3:24 pm

Damo wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 3:18 pm
I think people keep mentioning brexit, because there seems to be a disproportionate number of remainers who are absolutely livid because the man who master minded brexit went on a car journey.
You must be able to see a link like the rest of us?
And yet a number of prominent brexiteers are livid too.

Many in the ERG.

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by Damo » Wed May 27, 2020 3:30 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 2:11 pm
Thanks combat for giving us a laugh.
The vast majority of posters on here decry the Daily Mail for whatever reasons they choose, no problem with that at all. However, it publishes the details as shown in your picture and this will all be taken as the gospel truth, even though the vast majority think that everything else they publish is all lies.
Many thanks.
The vast majority of the people who decry the Daily Mail seem to know, word for word, exactly what is printed in it every single day.
They cant all have found a copy in the works canteen, surely?

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by Greenmile » Wed May 27, 2020 3:35 pm

android wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 3:01 pm
I see. That's reassuring thanks. Good to know that all the sources were actually correct in one way or another then. A bit naughty perhaps to use the Q&A quote rather than the bit he set out to say in the statement, but...well I'm boring myself now.

My main point, as I said from the outset, was to consider his comments in the full context of both his press conference quote about pandemic risk, the blog and the one scientific article on which his blog piece was almost entirely based (the heavy lifting bit in DA's view, not that heavy in mine).

I've exhausted my reservoir on this topic now. Incredible really how much time this episode is occupying.
When making the point that he lied, how is it “a bit naughty” to use the bit where he unequivocally lied, instead of the bit where he just probably lied.

What is “a bit naughty”, IMO, is accusing someone of fabricating a quote and then failing to apologise when you’re presented with proof that your accusation was false.

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by Greenmile » Wed May 27, 2020 3:36 pm

Damo wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 3:30 pm
The vast majority of the people who decry the Daily Mail seem to know, word for word, exactly what is printed in it every single day.
They cant all have found a copy in the works canteen, surely?
There’s this website called twitter.com. I think you’d like it.

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Re: Dominic Cummings

Post by Damo » Wed May 27, 2020 3:42 pm

Greenmile wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 3:36 pm
There’s this website called twitter.com. I think you’d like it.
I've been on. I thought this place was bad. Did you see the guy who once did a podcast with bob mortimer get chased off there yesterday,? :lol:

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