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ksrclaret
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by ksrclaret » Wed May 27, 2020 10:16 pm
scouseclaret wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 9:53 pm
We should all be very worried about the government’s blatant attempts to control the media.
On Monday they offered up an unelected official for a press conference, who then served up a fairy story which didn’t bear the mildest scrutiny. They’ve since used it to try and shut down the debate on the basis of “you heard what he said,that’s the end of it,” even though a) everyone knows it was a pack of lies, and b) he admitted at least 3 breaches of the lockdown rules anyway!
Then Emily Maitlis gets banned for telling it how it is. This is, at best, Trumpist, and at worst, Stalinist.the beginning of the end of free speech in this country.
It's frightening.
People voted for this government to take back control. Well it worked, because a government has never had as much control as it does now. And when I say government, I mean one unelected psychopath who now runs the entirety of government business. Just look at how that is working out - lies, deceit, duplicity, more lies to cover the old lies. Highest death toll in Europe, Care Homes, PPE, testing. A government of national unity is needed and fast.
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Zlatan
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by Zlatan » Wed May 27, 2020 10:16 pm
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RingoMcCartney
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by RingoMcCartney » Wed May 27, 2020 10:18 pm
I see Alistair Campbell had to delete a tweet of himself breaking social distancing rules!
He should be sacked!
Oh hang on!
He no longer has the gig of "sexing up" dossiers that lead to the needless and illegal deaths of 100s of thousands of Iraqi men women and children has he!?
Why is it that , you never a war crimes court handy, when you need one!?
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Rileybobs
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by Rileybobs » Wed May 27, 2020 10:26 pm
Funny how you don’t hear many people talking about OJ Simpson getting away with murder. Apparently Cummings is the bad guy in all this yet OJ is walking around as a free man.
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dougcollins
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by dougcollins » Wed May 27, 2020 10:29 pm
Rileybobs wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 10:26 pm
Funny how you don’t hear many people talking about OJ Simpson getting away with murder. Apparently Cummings is the bad guy in all this yet OJ is walking around as a free man.
WTF? Am I missing something obvious here/ whoosh?
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tiger76
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by tiger76 » Wed May 27, 2020 10:33 pm
ksrclaret wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 10:16 pm
It's frightening.
People voted for this government to take back control. Well it worked, because a government has never had as much control as it does now. And when I say government, I mean one unelected psychopath who now runs the entirety of government business. Just look at how that is working out - lies, deceit, duplicity, more lies to cover the old lies. Highest death toll in Europe, Care Homes, PPE, testing. A government of national unity is needed and fast.
I can't see it happening but if a GONU is going to even be considered Cummings & Johnson need to go,unfortunately that's unlikely to happen anytime soon.
The mainstream Tories can see the problems,but the Cummings cultists in the cabinet seem oblivious to the damage being caused to both the Conservatives and the country.
In purely party political terms would Labour be wise to even contemplate such a move?
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Bfcboyo
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by Bfcboyo » Wed May 27, 2020 10:45 pm
ksrclaret wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 10:16 pm
It's frightening.
People voted for this government to take back control. Well it worked, because a government has never had as much control as it does now. And when I say government, I mean one unelected psychopath who now runs the entirety of government business. Just look at how that is working out - lies, deceit, duplicity, more lies to cover the old lies. Highest death toll in Europe, Care Homes, PPE, testing. A government of national unity is needed and fast.
Were you leave or remain?
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Bfcboyo
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by Bfcboyo » Wed May 27, 2020 10:49 pm
It's the sour grapes camp stirring up the biggest epic storm in a tea cup in history.
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dsr
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by dsr » Wed May 27, 2020 10:50 pm
scouseclaret wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 9:53 pm
We should all be very worried about the government’s blatant attempts to control the media.
On Monday they offered up an unelected official for a press conference ...
That's a different take on things. As I heard, the press wanted Cummings to give a press conference - are you saying that they didn't want him, he was forced on them?
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RingoMcCartney
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by RingoMcCartney » Wed May 27, 2020 10:50 pm
AndrewJB wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 5:21 pm
The stay at home message was fairly clear, but that got switched to “stay alert” - which isn’t clear, and is in fact nonsensical. Cummings broke the stay at home rule.
Somehow, people went from seeing the government's message as "muddled" and "lacking clarity." Yet, in a weekend, they appear to have a PhD in government guidelines!
However, these very same people do appear to be quick learners. First, they were experts in free trade agreements, the import and export of goods, tariffs , and customs unions. Then , apparently they've been fast tracked through medical school and are now leading virologists and epidemiologists!
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Spijed
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by Spijed » Wed May 27, 2020 10:54 pm
Bfcboyo wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 10:49 pm
It's the sour grapes camp stirring up the biggest epic storm in a tea cup in history.
Steve Baker?
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ksrclaret
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by ksrclaret » Wed May 27, 2020 10:57 pm
Bfcboyo wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 10:45 pm
Were you leave or remain?
I was remain. I believed the EU had huge flaws but I just didn't trust any of the snake oil salesman types making up the Vote Leave guys (how right could I have been there). Mind you, Cameron was awful too. I did say at the time that leaving would be hardship for a while but that we'd look back in a decade and would probably be glad we did.
So please don't make this about sour grapes from remainers. That ship has sailed. Just look at our disastrous stats throughout this crisis. It's been a total shambles from beginning to now. Even people way out to the right in politics are incredulous about this latest episode.
Last edited by
ksrclaret on Wed May 27, 2020 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Spiral
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by Spiral » Wed May 27, 2020 10:58 pm
tiger76 wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 10:33 pm
The mainstream Tories can see the problems,but the Cummings cultists in the cabinet seem oblivious to the damage being caused to both the Conservatives and the country.
Those in govt defending Cummings aren't cultists, nor do I imagine many (if any) particularly like the man. Their motives in defending him are more calculated than that. There isn't a person of lucid disposition in the entire country who believes what Cummings' did was defensible, or that backing him is even remotely appropriate from the point of view of trust and good governance, but alas Johnson has decided he is invaluable and so the inevitable part of any politician's career trajectory where they find they must dine on a plate of $hit in aspiration of furthering one's career has come to pass for the entire cabinet all at once, and it's a six course royal banquet!
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Burnley Ace
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by Burnley Ace » Wed May 27, 2020 11:07 pm
tiger76 wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 1:37 pm
Fine let's see if any of them go public,i'll be
if there's none in the whole of the UK,now it could turn out that the police have misinterpreted the guidance,it wouldn't the 1st time that's occurred ,and if that proves to be the case then the people concerned can expect their fines to be waived i'd imagine.
Now if it turns out there isn't anybody that's been fined well making childcare arrangements then fantastic it won't be an issue.
Nobody has been fined for trying to make childcare arrangements- I don’t want to trap you - the reason is that there have been no cases that have gone to court. There may be some who have, accepting they were wrong, taken up the offer of disposing of the matter by way of a fixed penalty notice, but that was there choice.
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CrosspoolClarets
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by CrosspoolClarets » Wed May 27, 2020 11:07 pm
I’ve just noticed on this thread that Easter Sunday was his wife’s birthday. Totally reasonable to go somewhere nice after two weeks of hell struggling to breathe. Unfortunately, not totally reasonable if this is during a lockdown.
I think we can all imagine his thought processes throughout this episode. Much of it was in my mind very reasonable, but the Easter trip wasn’t. I’m not sure it was as selfish as Neil Ferguson, the Scottish CMO, Varadkar’s picnic, or as daft as Trump shaking hands on the golf course this weekend. But it does need punishing.
I think I’ve firmed up in my mind that he needs removing from Sage and all Covid-19 responsibility, focusing entirely on other responsibilities. That would be equivalent to Ferguson and the Scottish CMO, who after all kept their substantive jobs, they just lost the government advisory element. Johnson can’t afford to lose him completely, that would reward his enemies too much, but he can go halfway.
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dsr
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by dsr » Wed May 27, 2020 11:24 pm
Burnley Ace wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 11:07 pm
Nobody has been fined for trying to make childcare arrangements- I don’t want to trap you - the reason is that there have been no cases that have gone to court. There may be some who have, accepting they were wrong, taken up the offer of disposing of the matter by way of a fixed penalty notice, but that was there choice.
I suspect the vicar who raised the subject wasn't making a fine distinction between people who have been "fined" and people who have been given fixed penalties. He surely wasn't suggesting that there is any practical difference between the two.
What the vicar is concerned about, and was hoping for, was that people who have had to pay a sum of money to the government (that should cover it) for leaving the house to make childcare arrangements, should have their penalty rescinded. He really doesn't care what the legal form of the penalty was.
The big question is, should they launch a government enquiry into these cases immediately, or not at all, or perhaps choose the middle way of seeing whether there are any such cases before enquiring into them.
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Spijed
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by Spijed » Wed May 27, 2020 11:25 pm
CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 11:07 pm
I’ve just noticed on this thread that Easter Sunday was his wife’s birthday. Totally reasonable to go somewhere nice after two weeks of hell struggling to breathe. Unfortunately, not totally reasonable if this is during a lockdown.
I think we can all imagine his thought processes throughout this episode. Much of it was in my mind very reasonable, but the Easter trip wasn’t. I’m not sure it was as selfish as Neil Ferguson, the Scottish CMO, Varadkar’s picnic, or as daft as Trump shaking hands on the golf course this weekend. But it does need punishing.
I think I’ve firmed up in my mind that he needs removing from Sage and all Covid-19 responsibility, focusing entirely on other responsibilities. That would be equivalent to Ferguson and the Scottish CMO, who after all kept their substantive jobs, they just lost the government advisory element. Johnson can’t afford to lose him completely, that would reward his enemies too much, but he can go halfway.
I'm surprised the Conservatives have never hired anyone who is media savvy in the way Alastair Campbell was. It's odd that no one is advising either Boris Johnson or Dominic Cummings correctly.
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IanMcL
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by IanMcL » Wed May 27, 2020 11:37 pm
Dominating 'Durham Dom' Cummings OUT!
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Burnley Ace
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by Burnley Ace » Thu May 28, 2020 12:16 am
dsr wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 11:24 pm
What the vicar is concerned about, and was hoping for, was that people who have had to pay a sum of money to the government (that should cover it) for leaving the house to make childcare arrangements, should have their penalty rescinded. He really doesn't care what the legal form of the penalty was.
It would be done by the CPS when they review the file. Whoever issued the ticket would have had to write a statement explaining why an FPN was issued (rather than a warning) to someone who had told them they were seeking childcare. I personally don’t think any policeman would, in those circumstances issue an FPN but if they had they could also review their actions.
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aggi
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by aggi » Thu May 28, 2020 12:22 am
CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 11:07 pm
I’ve just noticed on this thread that Easter Sunday was his wife’s birthday. Totally reasonable to go somewhere nice after two weeks of hell struggling to breathe. Unfortunately, not totally reasonable if this is during a lockdown.
I think we can all imagine his thought processes throughout this episode. Much of it was in my mind very reasonable, but the Easter trip wasn’t. I’m not sure it was as selfish as Neil Ferguson, the Scottish CMO, Varadkar’s picnic, or as daft as Trump shaking hands on the golf course this weekend. But it does need punishing.
I think I’ve firmed up in my mind that he needs removing from Sage and all Covid-19 responsibility, focusing entirely on other responsibilities. That would be equivalent to Ferguson and the Scottish CMO, who after all kept their substantive jobs, they just lost the government advisory element. Johnson can’t afford to lose him completely, that would reward his enemies too much, but he can go halfway.
Speaking of his thought processes, this is obviously a comedic take but there are quite a number of steps on there where you think "that's a bit weird"
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Bfcboyo
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by Bfcboyo » Thu May 28, 2020 1:01 am
ksrclaret wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 10:57 pm
I was remain. I believed the EU had huge flaws but I just didn't trust any of the snake oil salesman types making up the Vote Leave guys (how right could I have been there). Mind you, Cameron was awful too. I did say at the time that leaving would be hardship for a while but that we'd look back in a decade and would probably be glad we did.
So please don't make this about sour grapes from remainers. That ship has sailed. Just look at our disastrous stats throughout this crisis. It's been a total shambles from beginning to now. Even people way out to the right in politics are incredulous about this latest episode.
A shambles, I see it as a great democracy delivering every stat they can and going beyond most to give us the truth.
Do you really believe those numbers coming from the dictatorships.
Be proud to be British and thank God you dont live in China or Russia where you would have a reason to moan.
Do you know why those numbers are so high . Because we are second to none on democracy and accountability.
You should be ashamed.
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ksrclaret
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by ksrclaret » Thu May 28, 2020 1:13 am
Bfcboyo wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 1:01 am
A shambles, I see it as a great democracy delivering every stat they can and going beyond most to give us the truth.
Do you really believe those numbers coming from the dictatorships.
Be proud to be British and thank God you dont live in China or Russia where you would have a reason to moan.
Do you know why those numbers are so high . Because we are second to none on democracy and accountability.
You should be ashamed.
I don't even know where to start with that post. Must be a joke.
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MalaysiaMo
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by MalaysiaMo » Thu May 28, 2020 3:38 am
Bfcboyo wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 1:01 am
A shambles, I see it as a great democracy delivering every stat they can and going beyond most to give us the truth.
Do you really believe those numbers coming from the dictatorships.
Be proud to be British and thank God you dont live in China or Russia where you would have a reason to moan.
Do you know why those numbers are so high . Because we are second to none on democracy and accountability.
You should be ashamed.
Unfortunately not so hot on transparency though. What is the scientific evidence that the Government's shifting response to the pandemic is based upon? Is it the same evidence that other democracies with far lower death tolls and rates have been following? If not, why?
I also don't buy the "second to none on democracy and accountability". There is no accountability in this Government - events around Cummings have shown that. And a "first past the post, winner takes all" is hardly "second to none on democracy".... Proportional representation is surely more democratic - and closer to Abe Lincoln's definition of "government of the people, by the people, and for the people".
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AndrewJB
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by AndrewJB » Thu May 28, 2020 6:53 am
RingoMcCartney wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 10:50 pm
Somehow, people went from seeing the government's message as "muddled" and "lacking clarity." Yet, in a weekend, they appear to have a PhD in government guidelines!
However, these very same people do appear to be quick learners. First, they were experts in free trade agreements, the import and export of goods, tariffs , and customs unions. Then , apparently they've been fast tracked through medical school and are now leading virologists and epidemiologists!
The governments message changed from one that was clear - stay at home - to one that wasn’t - stay alert. So it’s understandable that most people went from understanding the message, to not finding it clear. Cummings clearly didn’t respect the original clear message, and it’s pathetically weak of the government to leave him in place.
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Swizzlestick
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by Swizzlestick » Thu May 28, 2020 7:13 am
Bfcboyo wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 1:01 am
A shambles, I see it as a great democracy delivering every stat they can and going beyond most to give us the truth.
Do you really believe those numbers coming from the dictatorships.
Be proud to be British and thank God you dont live in China or Russia where you would have a reason to moan.
Do you know why those numbers are so high . Because we are second to none on democracy and accountability.
You should be ashamed.
Hahaha
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Bfcboyo
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by Bfcboyo » Thu May 28, 2020 8:26 am
MalaysiaMo wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 3:38 am
Unfortunately not so hot on transparency though. What is the scientific evidence that the Government's shifting response to the pandemic is based upon? Is it the same evidence that other democracies with far lower death tolls and rates have been following? If not, why?
I also don't buy the "second to none on democracy and accountability". There is no accountability in this Government - events around Cummings have shown that. And a "first past the post, winner takes all" is hardly "second to none on democracy".... Proportional representation is surely more democratic - and closer to Abe Lincoln's definition of "government of the people, by the people, and for the people".
Everyone complaining should be sent to Siberia.
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Corky
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by Corky » Thu May 28, 2020 8:30 am
Ringo and Rileys just confirming what I said on, I think, page 5 of this thread. No point in even trying to enter into sensible discourse with them. They are happy that the establishment think of the rest of the general populous as something to be sneered at as irrelevant.
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Greenmile
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by Greenmile » Thu May 28, 2020 8:36 am
Stolen from Twitter
- C45C28F5-709A-42C0-AACD-D102C5828F07.jpeg (266.66 KiB) Viewed 3315 times
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Greenmile
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by Greenmile » Thu May 28, 2020 8:38 am
Corky wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 8:30 am
Ringo and Rileys just confirming what I said on, I think, page 5 of this thread. No point in even trying to enter into sensible discourse with them. They are happy that the establishment think of the rest of the general populous as something to be sneered at as irrelevant.
Seems a bit harsh on Rileybobs.
If you’re taking his post re OJ Simpson at face value then I think a “whoosh” is in order. He was clearly mocking Ringo’s pathetic whataboutery.
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Rileybobs
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by Rileybobs » Thu May 28, 2020 8:39 am
Corky wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 8:30 am
Ringo and Rileys just confirming what I said on, I think, page 5 of this thread. No point in even trying to enter into sensible discourse with them. They are happy that the establishment think of the rest of the general populous as something to be sneered at as irrelevant.
Not sure how you gather that from my posts...
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Zlatan
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by Zlatan » Thu May 28, 2020 8:59 am
The problem I(we) have with DC is that he is an unelected official who is a key individual that is dictating policy in our government, the exact type of scenario that was one of the top reasons those who chose Brexit wanted eliminating. He is invaluable to BJ, hence the protection he is receiving but it's not until we know the real reasons for why he is so valuable that those who currently support him on this forum I would hope should change their mind.
As to the real reasons, I'd have to speculate and I suspect that DC has knowledge of (as he was instrumental in it) practices used during the Leave campaign and the election that could be perceived to be wrong - not necessarily illegal, but wrong and should be (some describe it as electoral fraud). The type of thing I am talking about is along the lines of Big Data analysis (as used by Cambridge Analytica - remember them and their election manipulation).
I am certain that the approach is to "press the right buttons" on social media and it swings the polls and your popularity one way or the other. In terms of the "right buttons", techniques like manipulation of hashtags (something I've witnessed a lot on recently - misspelling of hashtags to change the trend from sponsored posts). Investing in small teams (silos) of people to do the dirty work on a full time basis (a technique used by terrorists funnily enough - you know the dormant cells across the world [what ever happened to the terrorists by the way... have they been observing the lockdown...? - thats for another thread])
The bottom line is that enough of the population are manipulated to swing the polls and the elections etc and they have absolutely no idea that they have been manipulated in any way whatsoever - hence the vehement objections across social media when it is suggested that they are (which incidentally creates the echo chamber effect and amplifies their own position).
Recently, the shroud of impunity for Dominic Cummings has been pulled back a little and many of these manipulated people have seen a glimpse of what is happening and I hope enough of them wake up to actually see it and don't fall under the hypnotic spell again. Time will tell of course.
So, in the short term I honestly believe for the good of the country DC needs to be removed from his post so that the government can try to do their best for the country in this crisis. That said, if that happens he may well disappear into nowhere and still pull the strings and we (the public) would be none the wiser about it.
When someone like DC has so much influence over the PM (currently BJ - but could well be whoever is in the hot seat) it is undemocratic and I would argue dangerous for any democracy.
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GodIsADeeJay81
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by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu May 28, 2020 9:09 am
DC stated he didn't want to be part of the gov long term if I recall correctly from the job advert he put out for different people to help overhaul the civil service.
His long term aim is to leave his job in the next few years.
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Zlatan
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by Zlatan » Thu May 28, 2020 9:17 am
GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 9:09 am
DC stated he didn't want to be part of the gov long term if I recall correctly from the job advert he put out for different people to help overhaul the civil service.
His long term aim is to leave his job in the next few years.
of course he could have been misleading people when he said that, and to be fair most people say things in job interviews for example to make sure they get the job - it doesn't mean that they actually mean it...
That said it's not something I've ever heard or read though so if you have any links to references to that it would be interesting to read, ta.
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Longsidebogs
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by Longsidebogs » Thu May 28, 2020 9:18 am
Sour grapes remainers. Sad losers. I think that about covers everything doesn’t it? Close thread.
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Blackrod
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by Blackrod » Thu May 28, 2020 9:23 am
Rileybobs wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 10:26 pm
Funny how you don’t hear many people talking about OJ Simpson getting away with murder. Apparently Cummings is the bad guy in all this yet OJ is walking around as a free man.
Eh?
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Zlatan
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by Zlatan » Thu May 28, 2020 9:24 am
Longsidebogs wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 9:18 am
Sour grapes remainers. Sad losers. I think that about covers everything doesn’t it? Close thread.
Is that the best you’ve got? Classic example of someone who has no idea they’ve been used and also good use of echo chamber rhetoric, well done
Last edited by
Zlatan on Thu May 28, 2020 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Billy Balfour
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by Billy Balfour » Thu May 28, 2020 9:31 am
A poignant pic from Cold War Steve.
- EZC9FxDXQAM_PKu.jpg (269.3 KiB) Viewed 3210 times
Last edited by
Billy Balfour on Thu May 28, 2020 9:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Blackrod
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by Blackrod » Thu May 28, 2020 9:32 am
AndrewJB wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 6:53 am
The governments message changed from one that was clear - stay at home - to one that wasn’t - stay alert. So it’s understandable that most people went from understanding the message, to not finding it clear. Cummings clearly didn’t respect the original clear message, and it’s pathetically weak of the government to leave him in place.
Agree with this. Trying to safeguard one man has weakened the whole party and undermined the government and public confidence in it. The ability to make tough decisions is part of being a leader but this actually looks weak. A government has to have credibility. One rule for the public and a separate one for people involved in making the rules will not sit well with the public and voters. The Remain campaign took the public for granted and this smacks of something similar. The public will remember this.
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Longsidebogs
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by Longsidebogs » Thu May 28, 2020 9:43 am
Zlatan wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 9:24 am
Is that the best you’ve got? Classic example of someone who has no idea they’ve been used and also good use of echo chamber rhetoric, we’ll done
We’ll done what? Oh, wait.....not very good use of grammar.
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Erasmus
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by Erasmus » Thu May 28, 2020 9:56 am
Just heard Matt Hancock calling on all of us to do our civic duty by isolating ourselves if required. That raised an eyebrow. Cummings's misdemeanours have certainly diluted the effect of that appeal. Johnson should have got rid of him.
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Zlatan
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by Zlatan » Thu May 28, 2020 9:56 am
Longsidebogs wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 9:43 am
We’ll done what? Oh, wait.....not very good use of grammar.
thanks for highlighting the auto-correct mistake - still all you've got...?
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Swizzlestick
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by Swizzlestick » Thu May 28, 2020 9:59 am
Erasmus wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 9:56 am
Just heard Matt Hancock calling on all of us to do our civic duty by isolating ourselves if required. That raised an eyebrow. Cummings's misdemeanours have certainly diluted the effect of that appeal. Johnson should have got rid of him.
This is the issue. It’s now completely sullied any further messages from the government. People will, with some justification, question why it’s their civic duty to do it now when those right at the top don’t feel it’s there’s.
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martin_p
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by martin_p » Thu May 28, 2020 10:01 am
Bfcboyo wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 10:49 pm
It's the sour grapes camp stirring up the biggest epic storm in a tea cup in history.
If it’s sour grapes from remainers or labour supporters then the polls on the Cummings affair suggest both should have won by a country mile!
This isn’t party politics, this is a man who thinks he can do what he wants because of his position of power and a PM who seems to think that’s fine.
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Devils_Advocate
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by Devils_Advocate » Thu May 28, 2020 10:05 am
Bfcboyo is only on the windup and likes to amuse himself like this from time to time.
To be fair whenever he does try to post his real opinions his posts get deleted by the mods (make your own mind up why that might be) so he's left with no choice but to play a kind of jokey less extreme version of himself
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martin_p
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by martin_p » Thu May 28, 2020 10:06 am
CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 11:07 pm
I’ve just noticed on this thread that Easter Sunday was his wife’s birthday. Totally reasonable to go somewhere nice after two weeks of hell struggling to breathe. Unfortunately, not totally reasonable if this is during a lockdown.
I think we can all imagine his thought processes throughout this episode. Much of it was in my mind very reasonable, but the Easter trip wasn’t. I’m not sure it was as selfish as Neil Ferguson, the Scottish CMO, Varadkar’s picnic, or as daft as Trump shaking hands on the golf course this weekend. But it does need punishing.
I think I’ve firmed up in my mind that he needs removing from Sage and all Covid-19 responsibility, focusing entirely on other responsibilities. That would be equivalent to Ferguson and the Scottish CMO, who after all kept their substantive jobs, they just lost the government advisory element. Johnson can’t afford to lose him completely, that would reward his enemies too much, but he can go halfway.
Seems fair. So Cummings should lose the government advisory element from his job as a government advisor. I’d support that. Guess he can still give Downing Street the once over with a Hoover!
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martin_p
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by martin_p » Thu May 28, 2020 10:07 am
RingoMcCartney wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 10:18 pm
I see Alistair Campbell had to delete a tweet of himself breaking social distancing rules!
He should be sacked!
Oh hang on!
He no longer has the gig of "sexing up" dossiers that lead to the needless and illegal deaths of 100s of thousands of Iraqi men women and children has he!?
Why is it that , you never a war crimes court handy, when you need one!?
Ah, some classic Wrongo deflection.
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BurningBeard
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by BurningBeard » Thu May 28, 2020 10:08 am
Erasmus wrote: ↑Thu May 28, 2020 9:56 am
Just heard Matt Hancock calling on all of us to do our civic duty by isolating ourselves if required. That raised an eyebrow. Cummings's misdemeanours have certainly diluted the effect of that appeal. Johnson should have got rid of him.
I bet he had a right old chuckle to himself when he wrote that down.
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martin_p
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by martin_p » Thu May 28, 2020 10:09 am
RingoMcCartney wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 10:50 pm
Somehow, people went from seeing the government's message as "muddled" and "lacking clarity." Yet, in a weekend, they appear to have a PhD in government guidelines!
However, these very same people do appear to be quick learners. First, they were experts in free trade agreements, the import and export of goods, tariffs , and customs unions. Then , apparently they've been fast tracked through medical school and are now leading virologists and epidemiologists!
You’re certainly ’muddled’. It’s been explained to you what the difference between the messages at the time Cummings was in Durham and now is, so I won’t do it again.
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FactualFrank
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by FactualFrank » Thu May 28, 2020 10:10 am
I'm now a bit curious as to what Dominic Cummings knows that Boris actually believes could make us think worse of him.
As I'm not sure I believe the reports of the night with the sheep, the swan and the Samoan stripper.
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CrosspoolClarets
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by CrosspoolClarets » Thu May 28, 2020 10:18 am
I don’t find it particularly edifying the playbook used by this bunch of advisors to double down on every crisis or mistake. Whether it is the bus,Turkey, testing or lockdown breaches they believe that by doubling down on it rather than apologising they will win.
It has to be said though that so far, they are right. But it fuels a culture where we don’t apologise and makes politics a Punch and Judy show.
Cummings knows he messed up (albeit while under huge stress), but instead of saying sorry the playbook is to double down, so I suspect there are a few untruths in there - did he really not think his wife had Covid, did he not fill up on the way up, did the child not go to the loo, was Barnard Castle not for a quick trip out for his wife’s birthday, etc?
He’s probably right - if he had apologised he would now be toast, and Johnson’s government terribly weakened at a critical time. But just like the bus (another mistake he probably wishes in hindsight he hadn’t made) it leaves a sour taste in the mouth.
Personally, I prefer to focus on the big picture, which is that the lockdown was probably overcooked anyway due to worldwide herd mentality, and the constant gotcha culture will end up with us starved of the best brains at the times they are most needed.