"Antifa" declared a terrorist organisation

[tarkys_ears]

...and about time too!

Best thing Trump's ever done.

[Rowls]

Isn't anyone else out there really worried about importing these awful, divisive, brutal and violent American culture wars to the UK?

They seem to infect everything. They rot hearts and minds too.

Already there are people protesting about the terrible events in the USA - outside the Prime Minister's residence. What's that for? What's it all about?

I hate it and I fear it's already too late.

It will result in a society far more fractured and discordant than we already have. There will be giant fissures based on racial identity and we will all be poorer for it.

[Bin Ont Turf]

Isn't anyone else out there really worried about importing these awful, divisive, brutal and violent American culture wars to the UK?

They seem to infect everything. They rot hearts and minds too.

Already there are people protesting about the terrible events in the USA - outside the Prime Minister's residence. What's that for? What's it all about?

I hate it and I fear it's already too late.

It will result in a society far more fractured and discordant than we already have. There will be giant fissures based on racial identity and we will all be poorer for it.

There are far too many folk over here who follow everything the septic's say and do.

It's all quite uncivilised.

[Rowls]

It's VERY uncivilized. And now the notion is spreading that you must take a stance and must join a side.

No. I won't.

I refuse to take sides in American culture wars.

I refuse to have my opinions and world-views narrowed and limited to binary choices.

I refuse labels - as much as is possible.

All this is happening right now and it's seeping into British and European culutre.

It's insidious.

[AlargeClaret]

Steady on Rowls there’s no place on here for a balanced sensible deduction of events ,better to lash out wildly in all directions and screech hysterically on party political lines .

[Damo]

They are only Antifa until large groups of them kick lone members of the public in the head. At which point they become black bloc anarchists or the police in fancy dress

[Damo]

It's VERY uncivilized. And now the notion is spreading that you must take a stance and must join a side.

No. I won't.

I refuse to take sides in American culture wars.

I refuse to have my opinions and world-views narrowed and limited to binary choices.

I refuse labels - as much as is possible.

All this is happening right now and it's seeping into British and European culutre.

It's insidious.

Racist

[Holmeclaret]

Very true Rowls and real independence of thought was what I feel separated us from many other nations. It’s depressing seeing the indefensible defended by zealots across the political spectrum presumably based on loyalty. Loyalty to all branches of thinking within a political or religious paradigm can quickly create a dangerous binary culture of us and them which can only lead eventually to violence. It’s lazy thinking and it’s pathetic.

[AlargeClaret]

I see the news has anti fa protesters and banners outside Downing Street chanting “ feck the police “ ,how noble of them when the old bill in all fairness have done a bloody good job during Covid with a near impossible mandate .
I’d imagine most “ antifa” grow up after they get their 1st taste of beer or perhaps even ( omg awks look to the floor) a woman ...

[grapidianclaret]

Some very good people in antifa

[Bosscat]

A lot on here are Anti FA

[FCBurnley]

Some very good people in antifa

Name 3

[grapidianclaret]

Name 3

Dissappointed in you FC. Thought you might have recognized the words of your orange master,in regards to the white supremacists in Charlotte.

[FCBurnley]

I’ll take that as I don’t know and ignore the rest of your racist comment

[grapidianclaret]

You mean my comment about a racist

[Devils_Advocate]

https://arcdigital.media/in-defense-of- ... c699d86dc5

[Damo]

Some very good people in antifa

There are. I know some good people who are left wing activists. Not sure if they are antifa, I've never had that conversation with them. But some of the scenes we are seeing from people acting under that banner is disgusting. They are as bad as the far right idiots that they claim to detest
I'm glad this conversation has become separated from the George Floyd one anyway, as continued police brutality over the pond shouldn't be levied against the disturbances. Kicking peoples heads in that you dont agree with, and burgaling shops isnt anti-establishment

[Devils_Advocate]

There are. I know some good people who are left wing activists. Not sure if they are antifa, I've never had that conversation with them. But some of the scenes we are seeing from people acting under that banner is disgusting. They are as bad as the far right idiots that they claim to detest
I'm glad this conversation has become separated from the George Floyd one anyway, as continued police brutality over the pond shouldn't be levied against the disturbances. Kicking peoples heads in that you dont agree with, and burgaling shops isnt anti-establishment

Mate unlike some of the posters on this thread who come at it from both uninformed and closed mind position you are someone who will read and consider a different perspective and viewpoint with honesty.

Im not asking for a debate or even your views but when you have 10 mins give the article I posted a read in full without judging it as coming from a political side

You may not change your views or agree with some of it but Im sure you'll learn something and be better for it when you consider issues like this in the future

[Bin Ont Turf]

https://arcdigital.media/in-defense-of- ... c699d86dc5

The picture is a cracker.

'Smash fascism' dressed like terrorists, it really will make people warm to them.

[Vegas Claret]

A lot on here are Anti FA

[Devils_Advocate]

The picture is a cracker.

'Smash fascism' dressed like terrorists, it really will make people warm to them.

Stick to your comics, the pictures to words ratio is much more in your favour

[Bin Ont Turf]

Stick to your comics, the pictures to words ratio is much more in your favour

A set of absolute bell ends who have taken noble thing to somehow express their intolerance and nastiness.

[grapidianclaret]

There are. I know some good people who are left wing activists. Not sure if they are antifa, I've never had that conversation with them. But some of the scenes we are seeing from people acting under that banner is disgusting. They are as bad as the far right idiots that they claim to detest
I'm glad this conversation has become separated from the George Floyd one anyway, as continued police brutality over the pond shouldn't be levied against the disturbances. Kicking peoples heads in that you dont agree with, and burgaling shops isnt anti-establishment

I honestly do not know any antifa members.
I was trying to draw attention to the difference in attitude by our orange demiGod to white supremacists and antifa.
One extreme to another. Antifa is a relatively new set of extremists, white supremacists have been around for a long long time.
Looting, burning buildings is not good. It keeps happening, every few years,because the legitimate reasons for the protests keep being ignored.
People keep looking at this on the context of it being a reaction to one awful piece of police brutality. It isn't.
It's a simering current of anger and discontent at 400 years of slavery and now,inequality.
I knew antifa would be trotted out by Trump,it's his knee jerk reaction to everything, deflect and confuse.
Does anybody think the timing of his announcement to declare antifa a terrorist organization is just coincidence?

[Somethingfishy]

Duh duh duh duh..Anti FA..duh dud duh duh Anti FA.

Maybe they will hijack our song as they lob another molotov cocktail through a window....

[Damo]

Mate unlike some of the posters on this thread who come at it from both uninformed and closed mind position you are someone who will read and consider a different perspective and viewpoint with honesty.

Im not asking for a debate or even your views but when you have 10 mins give the article I posted a read in full without judging it as coming from a political side

You may not change your views or agree with some of it but Im sure you'll learn something and be better for it when you consider issues like this in the future

I understand they do some good pal. And I get why Trump has issue with them, but everytime they turn up somewhere with a bee in their bonnet, it turns violent. In that respect they are no better than the MAGA idiots.
I get their core principles. But I dont get the way they go about protesting. The name antifa stands for anti fascist, but theres hundreds of videos on the internet of them beating up people they disagree with. I know you can see the irony in that.
I read the link you posted. If you take that persons word at face value, then it seems like a just cause. Unfortunately it just reads like the sort of populist nonsense you would expect any movement to post.
The sentiment is good. It just falls down when you see the reality of of how they actually operate as a collective

[Devils_Advocate]

I understand they do some good pal. And I get why Trump has issue with them, but everytime they turn up somewhere with a bee in their bonnet, it turns violent. In that respect they are no better than the MAGA idiots.
I get their core principles. But I dont get the way they go about protesting. The name antifa stands for anti fascist, but theres hundreds of videos on the internet of them beating up people they disagree with. I know you can see the irony in that.
I read the link you posted. If you take that persons word at face value, then it seems like a just cause. Unfortunately it just reads like the sort of populist nonsense you would expect any movement to post.
The sentiment is good. It just falls down when you see the reality of of how they actually operate as a collective

Im not gonna start arguing about our different views as its so complex and Im happy you took the time to read it and I respect whatever view you take from it

All I would question is your implication towards the end of your post about it being a populist opinion from the within the movement itself

Caroline Orr is a behavioral scientist and respected journalist with no links to the antifa movement. She has over 400k followers on Twitter which to me says a lot about how serious her body of work is taken

[Damo]

Im not gonna start arguing about our different views as its so complex and Im happy you took the time to read it and I respect whatever view you take from it

All I would question is your implication towards the end of your post about it being a populist opinion from the within the movement itself

Caroline Orr is a behavioral scientist and respected journalist with no links to the antifa movement. She has over 400k followers on Twitter which to me says a lot about how serious her body of work is taken

Thanks for that pal. I've just followed her. I know you do your homework on these things so I'll follow it up tomorrow and re read the link you posted with an open mind (I'll try my best anyway)

[Devils_Advocate]

Thanks for that pal. I've just followed her. I know you do your homework on these things so I'll follow it up tomorrow and re read the link you posted with an open mind (I'll try my best anyway)

Cheers and I bet a fair few of her 'behavoural science' views will do your nut in

[Paul Waine]

Sunday Times, Matthew Syed

If the BBC picks a side, it will already have lost
Auntie should aspire to help the country become less polarised, not more

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/66b6 ... e3364aafa7

Good commentary by Syed. Worth a read. Seems to have some thoughts that are pertinent to this thread and ways that we can avoid polarisation in our ideas.

[Greenmile]

Lots of anti-anti-fascists* on this thread

* - that seems like a bit of a mouthful. There must be a simpler way of putting it. Any ideas, anyone?

[Bin Ont Turf]

Lots of anti-anti-fascists* on this thread

* - that seems like a bit of a mouthful. There must be a simpler way of putting it. Any ideas, anyone?

How about anti-bellendery?

That would then cover, Trump's tweets, turds that use the phrase 'white privilege', the shite's giving it the Sieg Heils, looters masquerading as protesters, those black clad terrorists this thread is about and Boris Johnson's hair.

[Damo]

Lots of anti-anti-fascists* on this thread

* - that seems like a bit of a mouthful. There must be a simpler way of putting it. Any ideas, anyone?

I thought you were being a bit of a drama queen when I read this, so I searched for the definition of facism and found this

IMG_20200601_132234.jpg (243.87 KiB) Viewed 2854 times

Turns out you are right

[Greenmile]

I thought you were being a bit of a drama queen when I read this, so I searched for the definition of facism and found this
IMG_20200601_132234.jpg

Turns out you are right

You should probably have googled fascism instead of “facism”.

To be serious for a minute, Antifa is not a terrorist organisation -it’s not even an organisation - and the President does not have the authority to designate it as such. All he’s trying to do is to obtain the power to label all protestors he doesn’t like as “terrorists”. Not the neo-nazis, of course - they are “fine people”.

My previous post was just pointing out that if you’re against anti-fascism, you’re probably for fascism. Much like if you rail against “social justice”, that means you’re pro-social injustice. There’s no argument to be had here - it’s just the way logic and the English language work.

[Colburn_Claret]

The problem with antifa, and many other of these organisations is the hangers on. There is a well meaning message that gets lost because of hangers on looking for a riot. Im happy to listen to the message, but the looters and trouble makers need locking up. Democracy demands you make your argument peacefully, if you have to use violence, or civil disorder, you've already lost the argument.

[Greenmile]

The problem with antifa, and many other of these organisations is the hangers on. There is a well meaning message that gets lost because of hangers on looking for a riot. Im happy to listen to the message, but the looters and trouble makers need locking up. Democracy demands you make your argument peacefully, if you have to use violence, or civil disorder, you've already lost the argument.

I’m not sure the Suffragettes, the Stonewall rioters, or the civil rights movement of the 60s in the USA would necessarily agree with you that they lost the argument by using civil disorder to achieve their aims.

Oh, and antifa is not “an organisation”.

Apart from that, though, good post.

[Damo]

You should probably have googled fascism instead of “facism”.

To be serious for a minute, Antifa is not a terrorist organisation -it’s not even an organisation - and the President does not have the authority to designate it as such. All he’s trying to do is to obtain the power to label all protestors he doesn’t like as “terrorists”. Not the neo-nazis, of course - they are “fine people”.

My previous post was just pointing out that if you’re against anti-fascism, you’re probably for fascism. Much like if you rail against “social justice”, that means you’re pro-social injustice. There’s no argument to be had here - it’s just the way logic and the English language work.

I think this thread is referring to antifa as opposed to actual anti-fascism

[Greenmile]

I think this thread is referring to antifa as opposed to actual anti-fascism

That’s a fair point. If you don’t think antifa are actual anti-fascists, what are they, exactly? Just all violent folk who you / Trump / the alt-right disagree with politically? (NB - those are either / or options. I’m not comparing you to Trump or the alt-right)

Perhaps you could link me to antifa’s actual mission statement or provide a few quotes from their leaders. I suspect you might struggle, though, as they are not an organisation.

[Damo]

That’s a fair point. If you don’t think antifa are actual anti-fascists, what are they, exactly? Just all violent folk who you / Trump / the alt-right disagree with politically? (NB - those are either / or options. I’m not comparing you to Trump or the alt-right)

Perhaps you could link me to antifa’s actual mission statement or provide a few quotes from their leaders. I suspect you might struggle, though, as they are not an organisation.

I dont think all members are anti fascist. If they were they wouldn't be beating up people they disagree with would they? Not sure either how not having an office or a CEO excuses them from criticism. Pretty sure the alt-right dont have membership cards, if that's your argument

[Greenmile]

I dont think all members are anti fascist. If they were they wouldn't be beating up people they disagree with would they? Not sure either how not having an office or a CEO excuses them from criticism. Pretty sure the alt-right dont have membership cards, if that's your argument

The alt-right is vaguely definable though. I could name a few of their figureheads (though my knowledge may be a little out of date). If you don’t accept that antifa are anti-fascists, how are you defining them? Is it all looters and rioters? Just the more violent / “professional” / left-wing ones? Can you name any prominent members?

If you can explain to me who they are, exactly, I might join you in denouncing them.

Edit - FWIW, my understanding is that they are a group (or several groups) of anti-fascists who aren’t averse to using violence to achieve their aims. The “anti-fascist” bit is the defining trait though. However, I’m happy to accept my understanding may be wrong if you’re able to correct me.

[Devils_Advocate]

Edit - FWIW, my understanding is that they are a group (or several groups) of anti-fascists who aren’t averse to using violence to achieve their aims. The “anti-fascist” bit is the defining trait though. However, I’m happy to accept my understanding may be wrong if you’re able to correct me.

Have a read of this. Its long but I think you'll find it interesting

https://arcdigital.media/in-defense-of- ... c699d86dc5

[AndrewJB]

Gun toting men storm state legislatures across the country demanding changes to law, and they're described as “good people.” Sports stars take a knee during the national anthem to protest government violence against citizens and that’s disgracefully unpatriotic. That’s where Trump is. Proscribing “antifa” as a terrorist organisation is consistent with Trump’s divisive and hateful politics.

[AndrewJB]

The problem with antifa, and many other of these organisations is the hangers on. There is a well meaning message that gets lost because of hangers on looking for a riot. Im happy to listen to the message, but the looters and trouble makers need locking up. Democracy demands you make your argument peacefully, if you have to use violence, or civil disorder, you've already lost the argument.

Nobody likes rioting and disorder, but let’s not take this out of context, and let’s agree that aggressive policing - killing people - is what has to stop, and the offenders need to be locked up. A country that resorts to violence and murder of citizens to intimidate them perpetuate itself has no argument to make.

[Clarets4me]

Nobody likes rioting and disorder, but let’s not take this out of context, and let’s agree that aggressive policing - killing people - is what has to stop, and the offenders need to be locked up. A country that resorts to violence and murder of citizens to intimidate them perpetuate itself has no argument to make.

If you wear a mask, start bricking shop windows and then start looting legal businesses in the name of " Anti-Fascism ", then expect to be answering some questions !

[Damo]

The alt-right is vaguely definable though. I could name a few of their figureheads (though my knowledge may be a little out of date). If you don’t accept that antifa are anti-fascists, how are you defining them? Is it all looters and rioters? Just the more violent / “professional” / left-wing ones? Can you name any prominent members?

If you can explain to me who they are, exactly, I might join you in denouncing them.

Edit - FWIW, my understanding is that they are a group (or several groups) of anti-fascists who aren’t averse to using violence to achieve their aims. The “anti-fascist” bit is the defining trait though. However, I’m happy to accept my understanding may be wrong if you’re able to correct me.

Plenty of names (though admittedly, I've never heard of them) in this article
https://quillette.com/2019/05/29/its-no ... erleaders/

[Swizzlestick]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.inde ... html%3famp

[Greenmile]

Plenty of names (though admittedly, I've never heard of them) in this article
https://quillette.com/2019/05/29/its-no ... erleaders/

That looks like it’s just a list of journalists who are sympathetic to the antifa cause (ie anti-fascism). How many of the names in that article have “beaten up people they disagree with”?

Also, Quilette?? Is that really where you get your info from?

[Hapag Lloyd]

Edit - FWIW, my understanding is that they are a group (or several groups) of anti-fascists who aren’t averse to using violence to achieve their aims. The “anti-fascist” bit is the defining trait though. However, I’m happy to accept my understanding may be wrong if you’re able to correct me.

So a terrorist group or groups then ?

[Colburn_Claret]

Nobody likes rioting and disorder, but let’s not take this out of context, and let’s agree that aggressive policing - killing people - is what has to stop, and the offenders need to be locked up. A country that resorts to violence and murder of citizens to intimidate them perpetuate itself has no argument to make.

It isn't a country resorting to violence and murder of citizens to intimidate them. It's an individual who screwed up, with tragic consequences. It happens too often in America, just as mass shootings happen too often in America.
The whole thing needs investigating properly, no cover ups, and if the officer broke protocol he needs the book throwing at him. If it ires you, as it would, then protest by all means. Throwing bricks, looting shops, and burning out businesses of people who probably agree with you is not the way to garner support.
At sometime in the future another white police officer is going to arrest another black criminal. He'll have enough on his plate, without having to worry about being tarred as racist should the criminal resist arrest and he has to use force.

While I feel for George Floyd and his family, and wish it hadn't happened, painting him as a martyr is stretching it. He had a criminal past, and was caught passing a forged 20 dollar bill. Does that justify his death?, of course not, but if it weren't for his life choices he wouldn't have been in that situation in the first place.

[Greenmile]

So a terrorist group or groups then ?

As much a terrorist group as the Stonewall rioters, the Suffragettes, or the Civil rights movement.

[Hapag Lloyd]

Terrorism
unlawfully using violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
"a terrorist organization"