"Antifa" declared a terrorist organisation

[Colburn_Claret]

You say “I’m trying to keep an open mind” and then immediately say that one of the conclusions you could have drawn is “sickening to accept”. This suggests your mind may not be as open as you think.

Dismissing something as false because you don’t want it to be true (unfortunately, recent events have highlighted that it is indeed a very sad world) is called an appeal to consequences - https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Appeal_to_consequences

I noticed on the various Brexit threads that you seem to be a “look on the bright side”, “things will turn out fine” kind of person, and there’s nothing wrong with that, but you have to be careful not to let that creep into “this bad thing for which I have multiple sources of solid evidence can’t be true, because it would be terrible if it was”.

Edit to add - I do hope you’re right and I’m wrong, but I’m yet to see any evidence to suggest that may be the case.

I've never dismissed anything as false, I've held my hand up and said I don't know. The stats that you produce are undoubtedly horrendous, but as we all know, stats can be twisted to show anything. That doesn't mean your stats are wrong just that they aren't a scientific fact. I'm looking for other reasons why those stats may be so bad, not because I don't believe them, but because I don't want to believe them. I don't want to believe that racism, which exists everywhere, is so endemic in America, that the acts which we witnessed with George Floyd are normal and institutionalised. I haven't got my fingers in my ears and my eyes closed in an attempt to deny it, I've got them open to try and make some sense out of it.

I'm definitely a glass half full person, thank God, I wouldn't want it any other way and feel sorry for people who aren't. I have faith in humanity, in mankind and in society. I find it pointless getting angry and upset about things out of my control, it solves nothing, but I do care very much about the suffering of others. Defeating racism comes from within, no amount of Government edicts can conquer racism, but by each of us taking a personal stance and teaching it to our children. Protest to highlight it by all means, but standing toe to toe, confronting the Police achieves nothing.

[Damo]

Thanks that was the images I saw from a Journalists twitter account who was live reporting it from near where the camera was shooting

Edit: Back searched the video on your twitter links and the source is the journalist I was following. If your interested this links to the source tweet where he tracks and reports on whats happening at different stages

https://twitter.com/matthabusby/status/ ... 3564398593

Thanks for that.
That video seems to have been shared by lots of users with pretty much the same comment. Not sure if that indicates bots or not. I'm no expert when it comes to twitter.
Also, hope you are not getting the wrong end of the stick regarding my comments on this thread. I have no problem with people protesting. I fully agree with and support protestors.
It's the rioting and looting by pockets of people that infuriates me. Mainly because it undermines what is an extremely just cause

[tiger76]

Thanks for that.
That video seems to have been shared by lots of users with pretty much the same comment. Not sure if that indicates bots or not. I'm no expert when it comes to twitter.
Also, hope you are not getting the wrong end of the stick regarding my comments on this thread. I have no problem with people protesting. I fully agree with and support protestors.
It's the rioting and looting by pockets of people that infuriates me. Mainly because it undermines what is an extremely just cause

I haven't been following this story as closely as some, but i do agree with your final sentence, this issue has been hijacked, and those idiots rioting and looting are doing a disservice to George Floyd's memory, as well as moving the media spotlight from the actions of police officers, to their own inane acts.

Peaceful protests are of course to be celebrated in a democratic country, whether such large gatherings are wise during the covid crisis is another question, but sadly these have been completely overshadowed by the violent actions of a minority.

[Devils_Advocate]

Thanks for that.
That video seems to have been shared by lots of users with pretty much the same comment. Not sure if that indicates bots or not. I'm no expert when it comes to twitter.
Also, hope you are not getting the wrong end of the stick regarding my comments on this thread. I have no problem with people protesting. I fully agree with and support protestors.
It's the rioting and looting by pockets of people that infuriates me. Mainly because it undermines what is an extremely just cause

I understand the sentiment of your post and anyone intent on causing violence and disorder is a cretin.

I think we need to be careful of language because as the Floyd and Antifa threads have shown there are people on here looking for any opportunity to shift the blame on the protesters and the black community

I am happy you didnt intend it to be taken this way but your original post gave the impression it had all erupted into disorder and was becoming a battleground like the US. This unfortunately is all some people on here need to start discrediting the whole event when it was probably just a few cretins who were shut down by the police and protesters working together and in reality it has turned out to be a really peaceful protest

Its not your responsibility to worry about how people might misinterpret your comments but after seeing some of the comments on here I am gonna be a bit quick to try and make sure they arent given a chance

Hope that makes some sense and as always whist we might have different views and sometimes come to verbal blows I enjoy we can discuss honestly and find some consensus even if sometimes its simply that we just disagree

[Greenmile]

I've never dismissed anything as false, I've held my hand up and said I don't know. The stats that you produce are undoubtedly horrendous, but as we all know, stats can be twisted to show anything. That doesn't mean your stats are wrong just that they aren't a scientific fact. I'm looking for other reasons why those stats may be so bad, not because I don't believe them, but because I don't want to believe them. I don't want to believe that racism, which exists everywhere, is so endemic in America, that the acts which we witnessed with George Floyd are normal and institutionalised. I haven't got my fingers in my ears and my eyes closed in an attempt to deny it, I've got them open to try and make some sense out of it.

I'm definitely a glass half full person, thank God, I wouldn't want it any other way and feel sorry for people who aren't. I have faith in humanity, in mankind and in society. I find it pointless getting angry and upset about things out of my control, it solves nothing, but I do care very much about the suffering of others. Defeating racism comes from within, no amount of Government edicts can conquer racism, but by each of us taking a personal stance and teaching it to our children. Protest to highlight it by all means, but standing toe to toe, confronting the Police achieves nothing.

We’ve reached a kind of consensus here, so I’ll leave it at that.

[Damo]

I understand the sentiment of your post and anyone intent on causing violence and disorder is a cretin.

I think we need to be careful of language because as the Floyd and Antifa threads have shown there are people on here looking for any opportunity to shift the blame on the protesters and the black community

I am happy you didnt intend it to be taken this way but your original post gave the impression it had all erupted into disorder and was becoming a battleground like the US. This unfortunately is all some people on here need to start discrediting the whole event when it was probably just a few cretins who were shut down by the police and protesters working together and in reality it has turned out to be a really peaceful protest

Its not your responsibility to worry about how people might misinterpret your comments but after seeing some of the comments on here I am gonna be a bit quick to try and make sure they arent given a chance

Hope that makes some sense and as always whist we might have different views and sometimes come to verbal blows I enjoy we can discuss honestly and find some consensus even if sometimes its simply that we just disagree

Thanks for that. That's a very good post

The bit I highlighted, I was expecting the worst and thankfully it looks like I'm wrong. Fair play to the people attending

[Damo]

https://twitter.com/RespectIsVital/stat ... 19948?s=19

Cretins

[Bin Ont Turf]

https://twitter.com/RespectIsVital/stat ... 19948?s=19

Cretins

Black Rioters Matter.

[Damo]

https://twitter.com/CrimeLdn/status/126 ... 53473?s=19

[claretonthecoast1882]

Hopefully the turds who turned up yesterday with one intention of disorder can be identified quickly and spend some time in jail.

Be nice to see how brave they are with their faces unmasked and without a crowd to hide among.

[Damo]

Heres a thread full of videos of cretins in reply to a tweet by the mayor of london
https://twitter.com/playsatlife/status/ ... 80512?s=19

[Murger]

Why the hell are the police backing away in all them videos? It just gives the thugs the green light to carry on. Go in hard on the *******.

[AlargeClaret]

While I don’t envy our police in these situations dealing with rioting **** but scared to be seen going into hard .That said our police have to be the softest and unfittest the world over ,those little metal coshes are pretty useless unless given an undefended clean hit,they look more like a mum n dads fancy dress party . They should be going in very hard indeed,where’s the gas and real batons ?Looks like every bit of dead beat left wing rent a mob **** is there along with your common and garden criminals and the obligatory awkward teens with rucksacks .

Can you imagine the outcry if this has been some huge football riot ? They’re be lengthy jail time for many and a huge police op in tracing .

[AlargeClaret]

Just appalling this is virtual lynch mobs on the police .will be hard indeed to convict with all faces covered.After all
that kneeling and virtue from the celeb luvvies I wonder if they’ll be so vocal in their criticism of the of the totally unprovoked riots affray and violent disorder

[tiger76]

What is the point of all large scale events being cancelled, when these dicks just congregate en masse anyway, and strictly by the letter of the law no gatherings of more than 6 people are permitted in England just now, so these gatherings are illegal, i just hope all those involved don't expect the NHS to pick up the pieces, if or when they contract CV.

And the protest in London wasn't peaceful, and if the offenders can be traced they should feel the full force of the law.

TBF from the reports I've seen tonight's protest in Birmingham appears to so far be peaceful, let's hope that remains the case.

[Devils_Advocate]

What is the point of all large scale events being cancelled, when these dicks just congregate en masse anyway, and strictly by the letter of the law no gatherings of more than 6 people are permitted in England just now, so these gatherings are illegal, i just hope all those involved don't expect the NHS to pick up the pieces, if or when they contract CV.

And the protest in London wasn't peaceful, and if the offenders can be traced they should feel the full force of the law.

TBF from the reports I've seen tonight's protest in Birmingham appears to so far be peaceful, let's hope that remains the case.

The London protests were immensely peaceful and the cretins who were causing trouble were a very small percentage

Saying the protests were not peaceful would be like branding 20k Burnley fans as hooligans because a group of 3 or 4 caused trouble with the police

As for the Covid risk it concerns me and I think its tragic that this could cause a spike in infections but this is not just about whats happened in the US. Over the last decade the Tories and their policies has caused real suffering for the poor, disabled, disadvantaged and ethnic minorities

I have respect for your views but dont forget you voted for this govt and Johnson whose handling of this crisis has exasperated peoples anger and has definitely been a factor in all this going off

I wish it didn't come to this but unfortunately there's a lot of people who face a lot of prejudice and suffering that most of us never have to and if they feel that taking a stand against this is more important than whats happening with Covid then I have respect for all those doing so in the right way

Just to add i've seen so many examples to day of right wing pr*icks sharing false videos of supposed scenes from the London protests with the clear aim to create your kind of attitude towards it

[Damo]

I wonder what rules people can start breaking and blame it on the tories.
This "not my government/prime minister" thing is dead and buried

[tiger76]

The London protests were immensely peaceful and the cretins who were causing trouble were a very small percentage

Saying the protests were not peaceful would be like branding 20k Burnley fans as hooligans because a group of 3 or 4 caused trouble with the police

As for the Covid risk it concerns me and I think its tragic that this could cause a spike in infections but this is not just about whats happened in the US. Over the last decade the Tories and their policies has caused real suffering for the poor, disabled, disadvantaged and ethnic minorities

I have respect for your views but dont forget you voted for this govt and Johnson whose handling of this crisis has exasperated peoples anger and has definitely been a factor in all this going off

I wish it didn't come to this but unfortunately there's a lot of people who face a lot of prejudice and suffering that most of us never have to and if they feel that taking a stand against this is more important than whats happening with Covid then I have respect for all those doing so in the right way

Just to add i've seen so many examples to day of right wing pr*icks sharing false videos of supposed scenes from the London protests with the clear aim to create your kind of attitude towards it

Sadly as always in these instances it's the small minority that will generate all the headlines, just as is often the case with football fans when a handful cause problems, it's the majority who get labelled with the same brush, might not be fair, but that's life.

I did vote for this government you're correct, but i can also vote them out,and as i have stated several times over the past few weeks, i'm not impressed with their handling of the covid crisis, and will not be voting for them next time, who i will vote for i don't yet know, but it won't be this bunch.

Thankfully we now have an effective opposition in the UK, it's just sad that it's took so long.

I understand people's frustrations, but they need to be aware of the public health risks involved,and where possible socially distance.

I got my information from the BBC site, and it was reported on their, that the police and protesters were involved in scuffles, i'm well aware of the various fake news doing the rounds, which is why i try and garner my info from trusted sources, or get the info corroborated by a 2nd source if possible, and just like you, if i'm corrected by evidence i'll admit when i'm wrong.

We in the UK are certainly not immune to institutionalised racism, as the Stephen Lawrence inquiry showed nearly 30 years ago, but we don't have the issues the US is currently grappling with.

Equally it works both ways as the refusal of the authorities to investigate the child grooming scandal in the late 1990's proved, as they didn't want to inflame community tensions, that's not acceptable either, we should all be equal under the law.