So the cash flow crisis starts

[ecc]

Although I wouldn't trust Sky as far as I could throw them - despite a company being intangible - they have been the PL's main source of income from the beginning i.e. over 25 years. I'm not saying they wouldn't ditch the PL if they weren't making enough money but I just feel it might be a case of better the devil you know. Just my opinion and one NOT based on financial knowledge. Sky without football would be a major, major blow to its image and prestige.

[aggi]

19 Premier League
1 FA Cup
3 EFL Cup
7 Europa League
= 30 games at home and an average of £3.2m a game - though I suspect you are right about Premier League games being closer to £4m

Concur that Arsenal are hard hit by the "ghost games" though I suspect Spurs were looking to generate £120m + from Matchday this season which is a huge number - probably the highest in global football

btw have you read football shorts part 3 yet? link was posted last night by the esk

Plus a few pre-season games. There's usually the Emirates cup for instance. From when I've been the ticket prices are pretty low but I imagine food and drink is earning plenty.

[Stayingup]

I don't disagree - but the debt owed by Chelsea will be factored into any price the club is sold for - and the debt is about 60% of the clubs value (even with the Chelsea Pitch-owners situation - which is well worth googling about). Whereas for our friends down the road the debt is 3 to 4 times the current value of the club.

I just wonder what is the value of 'our friends down the road'? Would be interestimg.to know..if I knew the debt I could used your estimation .
.

[NewClaret]

The BOE loan is a facility to guarantee operational cash flow - the club may or may not use it all - it depends on how much revenues are hit by TV rebates and commercial sponsorship drop, together with when fans are allowed back and how many.

Man Utd have an overdraft facility of £150m of which they have moved £140m into their cash account to do much the same thing. It is a different economic game at that level

True but my point was, and supported by the link you provided, Spurs look likely to lose up to £200m from this crisis (if fans are banned all next season). I’ve not totted everything up but for Burnley it would be what, £20m?

By being in the Prem now, and benefitting from the TV money that the EFL won’t receive, whilst the larger clubs income reduces more drastically than ours is potentially a great leveller.

[NewClaret]

You don't have to get rid of all the debt, most businesses operate with a certain level of debt as it's more efficient than being debt free.

True, and I understand the tax benefits, but holding high levels of debt (which £650m is, in anyone’s book) and then having to add another £175m to that to provide sufficient working capital is not a good place to be in the short to medium term at all.

They’ll have to sell players most likely, then Mourinho’s pay off when he moans.

[Chester Perry]

I just wonder what is the value of 'our friends down the road'? Would be interestimg.to know..if I knew the debt I could used your estimation .
.

Debt is £142m plus they have a £15m overdraft

all the info is here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20891&start=4267

[Chester Perry]

True but my point was, and supported by the link you provided, Spurs look likely to lose up to £200m from this crisis (if fans are banned all next season). I’ve not totted everything up but for Burnley it would be what, £20m?

By being in the Prem now, and benefitting from the TV money that the EFL won’t receive, whilst the larger clubs income reduces more drastically than ours is potentially a great leveller.

The Spurs forecast is a worst case revenue loss scenario through to the end next season. Which benefits from current knowledge about this season, remember we had an initial worst case revenue loss scenario of £50m for this season about 8 weeks ago, it is not looking anything like that level now.

The big concern for me, as I have posted elsewhere is the football bonuses at our club - Last seasons accounts demolished the hypothesis that that pot was based on the merit income, if the bonus pot is not bound by TV income (this is a worst cast picture) then our wage bill this year will be at least similar to last year and likely to nudge £90m, even past it, as bonuses are paid by the remaining in the Premier League trigger.

[NewClaret]

The Spurs forecast is a worst case revenue loss scenario through to the end next season. Which benefits from current knowledge about this season, remember we had an initial worst case revenue loss scenario of £50m for this season about 8 weeks ago, it is not looking anything like that level now.

The big concern for me, as I have posted elsewhere is the football bonuses at our club - Last seasons accounts demolished the hypothesis that that pot was based on the merit income, if the bonus pot is not bound by TV income (this is a worst cast picture) then our wage bill this year will be at least similar to last year and likely to nudge £90m, even past it, as bonuses are paid by the remaining in the Premier League trigger.

When do our accounts run to/from though mate? Are they aligned to the season or tax year? If Tax year, couldn’t the bonus’ actually reflect the previous seasons bonus?

Hopefully the club and players have had some sensible conversations if the bonus structure is going to be problematic. Paying their base throughout the coronavirus will hopefully generate some good will and the players will be sensible in at least deferring part of the payments.

[Chester Perry]

When do our accounts run to/from though mate? Are they aligned to the season or tax year? If Tax year, couldn’t the bonus’ actually reflect the previous seasons bonus?

Hopefully the club and players have had some sensible conversations if the bonus structure is going to be problematic. Paying their base throughout the coronavirus will hopefully generate some good will and the players will be sensible in at least deferring part of the payments.

Accounting year is 1st July - 30th June

Bonuses are paid at the end of the season - the key is that they are cash outgoings, not how or even when they appear in the accounts - though in 2020/21 accounts it looks like there will be 2 bonus payments to confuse things (this seasons and next season - if we stay up again then)

[aggi]

Accounting year is 1st July - 30th June

Bonuses are paid at the end of the season - the key is that they are cash outgoings, not how or even when they appear in the accounts - though in 2020/21 accounts it looks like there will be 2 bonus payments to confuse things (this seasons and next season - if we stay up again then)

I was pondering that. I've not seen any guidance yet on accounting treatment for such things but I assume as a minimum they'd be disclosed as a post- balance sheet event and possibly provided for.

Or I wonder if we'll see accounting periods adjusted to cover the full season.

[Chester Perry]

I was pondering that. I've not seen any guidance yet on accounting treatment for such things but I assume as a minimum they'd be disclosed as a post- balance sheet event and possibly provided for.

Or I wonder if we'll see accounting periods adjusted to cover the full season.

you know much more about these things than me - while your suggestion would be better for the casual external observer, does it make much of an difference for the clubs - everyone knows the reasons for the chaos. By and large football likes to be secretive about it's financials this would give them a good approach to maintain that over the next two accounting cycles

[Royboyclaret]

I was pondering that. I've not seen any guidance yet on accounting treatment for such things but I assume as a minimum they'd be disclosed as a post- balance sheet event and possibly provided for.

Or I wonder if we'll see accounting periods adjusted to cover the full season.

The accounting year end will most certainly remain as 30th June 2020.

Bonuses, such as they are, will be treated as a Wage accrual within this financial year's accounts on the P&L accountt.

[Chester Perry]

The accounting year end will most certainly remain as 30th June 2020.

Bonuses, such as they are, will be treated as a Wage accrual within this financial year's accounts on the P&L accountt.

Can we assume a similar advance reporting for central distribution (TV) Income?

[aggi]

The accounting year end will most certainly remain as 30th June 2020.

Bonuses, such as they are, will be treated as a Wage accrual within this financial year's accounts on the P&L accountt.

This was the bit I couldn't decide on.

We won't be safe by 30th June (it's possible but unlikely) so the event triggering a large part of those bonuses won't have occurred until post year-end although it will mainly relate to activity pre year-end.

The main reason to change the year-end would be to smooth the tax.

[Royboyclaret]

Can we assume a similar advance reporting for central distribution (TV) Income?

Indeed we can, Chester, on the basis that the Broadcast Income relates to a period (or at least 90%) prior to the end of June financial year end. By the time those accounts are prepared Burnley ought to be aware of actual figures without having to estimate too much.

[aggi]

Obviously the rebate, although technically deferred to 21/22 for payment, would also be recognised this year too.

[Chester Perry]

Cheers you two - always good to benefit from your knowledge and understanding

[aggi]

The accounting year end will most certainly remain as 30th June 2020.

Bonuses, such as they are, will be treated as a Wage accrual within this financial year's accounts on the P&L accountt.

Just happened to be on Companies House and I noticed that our accounting period was extended by one month to the end of the season (31 July 2020). I wonder if many other clubs have done the same.

[Chester Perry]

Just happened to be on Companies House and I noticed that our accounting period was extended by one month to the end of the season (31 July 2020). I wonder if many other clubs have done the same.

That is a interesting decision. and means the club will be more transparent with the financials of last season when they report. It also means that they do not have to post the accounts until next July from my understanding (extra 3 months for changing accounting date. the Derby County, Newcastle United trick) not saying that is what they will do mind.

[dsr]

That is a interesting decision. and means the club will be more transparent with the financials of last season when they report. It also means that they do not have to post the accounts until next July from my understanding (extra 3 months for changing accounting date. the Derby County, Newcastle United trick) not saying that is what they will do mind.

The additional three months is from the date the filing extension request is filed. So filing it this early means that the filing deadline only extends by 1 month to April 2021.

[LoveCurryPies]

I prefer Burnleys way of doing Business.

Would that be Bank of Dave?

[tim_noone]

Would that be Bank of Dave?

I'm sorry I've slept since......