Sadiq Khan name changes ....

[tiger76]

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/black-lives-m ... 00845.html
They really are winding people upnow and creating anger where it didnt exist.

Yes it's getting silly now, good job we don't have a major public health crisis to combat just now isn't it.

I'm not going to list them all so here's the link https://www.scotsman.com/news/people/to ... n-2880117

But if all that lot comes down it's not going to leave a lot standing.

A fair number listed are in Glasgow, and I've still only heard of two mentioned, despite having lived here for nearly 30 years, so either it's me or their impact on the general population has been minimal.

Initially most fair-minded people were prepared to support their actions, but if their not careful they'll push too far and get a push back.

I note this campaign is being run by the Stop Trump Coalition, quite why they're so active int the UK is anyone's guess.

[CoolClaret]

Yes, but you're arguing that this shouldn't prompt the pulling down of a statue of a slave trader. If you want to address racism how to you justify having statues of slave traders in prominent positions in major cities?

Well for a start, we were meant to be in the middle of a pandemic - that's gone.

Secondly things need to be addressed in a civil manner - not emotional reactions.

This past 10 days or so has done no good for division.

People see the mob running riot after being couped up for 11 weeks or so makes them look the other way and think 'wtf is going on'.

Finally, I don't know how many times this point needs to be reiterated but we look at these statues to see that there's been injustice in the world - it shows the duality to life.

For all Colston did good there's a lot he did wrong as well, let the people of Bristol or any visitors know.

Rewrite the plaque, don't pull it down.

[ElectroClaret]

Wasnt Bob Lord a bit of a racist ? He was certainly anti semitic according to some.

I remember Lord making a comment about "...the Jews who run TV" that Manny Cussins, the then Leeds chairman, also a Jew, took great exception to, and walked out of the Variety Club dinner that he said it at, along with a few others.

[martin_p]

Well for a start, we were meant to be in the middle of a pandemic - that's gone.

Secondly things need to be addressed in a civil manner - not emotional reactions.

This past 10 days or so has done no good for division.

People see the mob running riot after being couped up for 11 weeks or so makes them look the other way and think 'wtf is going on'.

Finally, I don't know how many times this point needs to be reiterated but we look at these statues to see that there's been injustice in the world - it shows the duality to life.

For all Colston did good there's a lot he did wrong as well, let the people of Bristol or any visitors know.

Rewrite the plaque, don't pull it down.

There's been a 25 year campaign to do something about the statue, plenty of opportunity to do it the right way. While i don't condone the way it happened you can understand why people might have been getting tired of waiting!

[dsr]

There's been a 25 year campaign to do something about the statue, plenty of opportunity to do it the right way. While i don't condone the way it happened you can understand why people might have been getting tired of waiting!

This is a lot of the problem. There are people who say we can't get this done by democratic means so a mob is the right way to do it; and there are people who say if it can't be done by democratic means it shouldn't be done at all.

[martin_p]

This is a lot of the problem. There are people who say we can't get this done by democratic means so a mob is the right way to do it; and there are people who say if it can't be done by democratic means it shouldn't be done at all.

It's democratic dithering that has caused the problem, there'd already been agreement to change the plinth, just no agreement on the wording. As i said, i don't condone the methods but i can understand the frustration that has led to this weeks outcome.

[Devils_Advocate]

It's democratic dithering that has caused the problem, there'd already been agreement to change the plinth, just no agreement on the wording. As i said, i don't condone the methods but i can understand the frustration that has led to this weeks outcome.

And a Tory councillor was advocating theft and vandalism and taking the law into their own hands should the plaque be changed through the proper processes.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bris ... ue-1815967

[Blackrod]

I remember Lord making a comment about "...the Jews who run TV" that Manny Cussins, the then Leeds chairman, also a Jew, took great exception to, and walked out of the Variety Club dinner that he said it at, along with a few others.

Im sure Martin P will be the first in the queue to campaign to get the Bob Lord Stand renamed. Maybe he could boycott matches until it is. Let’s forget all the good he did our club and trawl up anything negative about him including his views in a different era. If things don’t happen quickly enough he could always vandalise and loot the club shop. Yes this is how silly it’s getting.

[Greenmile]

Im sure Martin P will be the first in the queue to campaign to get the Bob Lord Stand renamed. Maybe he could boycott matches until it is. Let’s forget all the good he did our club and trawl up anything negative about him including his views in a different era. If things don’t happen quickly enough he could always vandalise and loot the club shop. Yes this is how silly it’s getting.

Nice strawman you’ve built there.

[Bordeauxclaret]

FFS just give them their statue back that they all definitely knew about this time last week, nothing is worth this meltdown.

[martin_p]

Im sure Martin P will be the first in the queue to campaign to get the Bob Lord Stand renamed. Maybe he could boycott matches until it is. Let’s forget all the good he did our club and trawl up anything negative about him including his views in a different era. If things don’t happen quickly enough he could always vandalise and loot the club shop. Yes this is how silly it’s getting.

I’d happily see it renamed, as would many more I suspect. There were lots of negative things said about Lord even as the stand was being built! And I won’t be attending another match this season!

[mdd2]

1B87F936-F7C2-452E-A598-2069F69ABF38.jpeg

I agree with the rest of your post, though.

Sorry Greenmile, i was straying too far from the use of occult in medicine which is a term used for things that are not accompanied by readily discernible signs or symptoms.
Hence my term for racism where the perpetrator seems to be behaving in a non-racist way as was shown in the BBC Programme some years ago when two Journalists first went to book a room for the night, then did it on the phone. Each time when refusing a room to the black person it appeared that the person running the guest house was trying to be helpful when in fact not letting the room due to the person's colour hence the occult in the medical meaning and I imagine there will be a lot of it about. Maybe latent racialism would be better but then that implies it is awaiting expression whereas my occult is actually alive and well in our sick society, but then where is racial discrimination and racial preference in all of this-one sees the preferences all the time and let's not kid ourselves we do not have regional preferences too.

[Greenmile]

Sorry Greenmile, i was straying too far from the use of occult in medicine which is a term used for things that are not accompanied by readily discernible signs or symptoms.
Hence my term for racism where the perpetrator seems to be behaving in a non-racist way as was shown in the BBC Programme some years ago when two Journalists first went to book a room for the night, then did it on the phone. Each time when refusing a room to the black person it appeared that the person running the guest house was trying to be helpful when in fact not letting the room due to the person's colour hence the occult in the medical meaning and I imagine there will be a lot of it about. Maybe latent racialism would be better but then that implies it is awaiting expression whereas my occult is actually alive and well in our sick society, but then where is racial discrimination and racial preference in all of this-one sees the preferences all the time and let's not kid ourselves we do not have regional preferences too.

Well I’ve learned something today - I’d never heard of the medical use of the term “occult” before. Thanks.

Would “subconscious” be an alternative word you could have used?

[tiger76]

And a Tory councillor was advocating theft and vandalism and taking the law into their own hands should the plaque be changed through the proper processes.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bris ... ue-1815967

That Tory councillor sounds a lovely tolerant chap,the fact he had a golliwog as a mascot says a lot about his mentality, and he seems to have an issue with outsiders.

His threats of vandalism make him no better than the people who tore the statue down, except the fact he's an elected member, and therefore he should behave in a manner befitting his status.

[Sausage]

Going back to the OP - which is about renaming London streets on the basis that some people find the current names offensive - it is worth pointing out that every Germanic sounding street name in London was renamed after the First World War because they didn't want to be reminded of the b*stards that had spent four years killing them.

[Greenmile]

I can’t believe we’re five pages into a thread started by someone who unironically uses the far-right racist conspiracy theory term “the Great Replacement”, and I’m the only person who seems to have noticed.

[Devils_Advocate]

That Tory councillor sounds a lovely tolerant chap,the fact he had a golliwog as a mascot says a lot about his mentality, and he seems to have an issue with outsiders.

His threats of vandalism make him no better than the people who tore the statue down, except the fact he's an elected member, and therefore he should behave in a manner befitting his status.

If you look at the history around trying to get the Cecil Rhodes statue removed then some students were voraciously attacked and subjected to racial abuse and told to go back to where they came from simply for raising the question

This is my problem with the debate on here because if you are gonna start going on about mob rule and going through proper channels and making out its some new Marxist fad then you should educate yourselves about the true background and context of the situation

People then might realise that in a country that suffers from systemic racism one of the problems is that you cant fight against the system itself through the systems own rules cos by its nature it will just beat you down and ignore you (or at worst attack you)

I'm reluctant to waste my time posting anything serious as these threads are full of backward thinking numbskulls on the verge of self-combusting. Fortunately once you get your head round they are just a bunch of pathetic nobody's on a footy forum it is actually quite entertaining and its the most fun viewing i've had on here for a long time
#BLM

[AlargeClaret]

A lot are vocal yes, but nothing changes without broad consensus. Otherwise the ‘raging Twitter mob’ would have stopped Brexit and got Dominic Cummings sacked.

That’s a reasonable and accurate point

[mdd2]

Well I’ve learned something today - I’d never heard of the medical use of the term “occult” before. Thanks.

Would “subconscious” be an alternative word you could have used?

Sorry no their racism is conscious but not open to scrutiny unless one really looks for it and as in medicine although diseases may be occult, if you look hard enough you can diagnose most but sometimes even though you look hard you don't find.
On this TV prog the black journalist knocks on the door of a guest house which announces vacancies-landlady comes to the door, he asks for a room for the night, she says we are full, sorry should have taken the sign out of the window. Then very helpfully she gives him an address where a landlady usually has rooms to let and even gives him pretty precise directions-what a lovely kind white lady she is.
Moments later the white journo knocks on the guest house door and bingo she invites him in and he gets a room.
The exercise is repeated but this time both phone and book a room (different guest house) when the black journo books in the landlord charges him for a week but the man only wants one night, landlord says we only do weekly bookings. Black man leaves. Along comes Mr White and books and pays for one night. Both knew what they were dong but the observer would not notice a racial motive looking at the way the black journo was treated and with the landlady she could not have been more helpful!!!!! So another word, not subconscious and to avoid confusion not occult. I know COVERT

[Burnley Ace]

Glasgow is by no means blameless in the slave trade, TBH i doubt any major UK city is, and there has been a lot of debate in the last few years around this topic in the city.

There’s an article in the Lancashire Post and it would seem every port between Lancaster and Liverpool had some involvement in the “Triangular Trade” Fleetwood, Poulton, Preston etc all involved before Liverpool dominated

[tiger76]

There’s an article in the Lancashire Post and it would seem every port between Lancaster and Liverpool had some involvement in the “Triangular Trade” Fleetwood, Poulton, Preston etc all involved before Liverpool dominated

That doesn't surprise me the industrial revolution was built on the profits of the slave trade. And the textile mills were no different.

[Bosscat]

There’s an article in the Lancashire Post and it would seem every port between Lancaster and Liverpool had some involvement in the “Triangular Trade” Fleetwood, Poulton, Preston etc all involved before Liverpool dominated

On Look Northwest tonight.. Liverpool University are changing the name of one of the Buildings...

Gladstone Halls of Residence (named after William Gladstone who was Prime Minister 4 times in Victorian times) because of his families links to the Slave trade.....

[bfcjg]

In fairness this sickens me, totally innocent running to escape no doubt racist whites. I feel sickened to the core that as a child I saw no harm in it.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hasBJ1Gkjy8

[Spike]

The pandemic, Brexit, economic recovery and knife crime should be his priority!
Not controlling mass demonstrations and knife crime make him more responsible for deaths than some of the folk he wants to erase from history
Racism can and must wait

[JohnMac]

He is fuelling the flames in order to seek votes for his re-election.
London Mayor holds no sway with me but I certainly think this one displays too many negative tendencies instead of seeking solutions.

[claretonthecoast1882]

He is fuelling the flames in order to seek votes for his re-election.
London Mayor holds no sway with me but I certainly think this one displays too many negative tendencies instead of seeking solutions.

He is probably hoping for a statue by the end of his spell as mayor

[Heathclaret]

To clarify the 1 in 1000 statistic further. The statistic I posted is that 1 in 1000 men, in the WHOLE DURATION of their lives will die at the hands of the police. If I picked a selection of 1000 black men in the USA at random, then statistically 1 of them WOULDN'T die at the hands of the police, because all of them have lived a proportion of their lives. Therefore, to simplify the statistic, 1 in 1000 black male babies born in the USA will go on to die at the hands of the police. There's quite an important and obvious distinction between the two. I definitely didn't use the word babies to be dramatic, if you don't believe me then that's your choice but if you follow my posts as closely as you suggest you should know that I don't spread lies on here.

On your last point, you have read the post that I mentioned because you replied to it by saying;

'Rileybobs with more of his off the cuff bullshit.'

Colburn insinuated that as Khan is a British Asian who has worked his way to becoming the Mayor of London he shouldn't pontificate about racism in this country. I made a perfectly reasonable response to that which you chose to ignore and instead resorted to an unprovoked personal response. It doesn't bother me, it just dilutes your point and makes you look like a hypocrite when you claim that it is my posts which are childish.

Once again, the use of the word “ babies “ is childish, inflammatory and dramatic. The word babies is unnecessary as none of them are killed as babies.

Seriously, I don’t follow your posts at all. The only reason I have answered you the last few times is because you quote me and I get a notification that you have.

To Colburns post about Kahn you said “so racism doesn’t exist because the mayor of London is from a minority ethnic group? Sounds legit”

I don’t think Colburn claimed that racism doesn’t exist. I think it was probably that Khan has made something of himself in Britain, as have many BAME people, so perhaps, with him being in a position of influence, he should talk about the positives of being raised and educated in Britain and not just the negatives.

The pulling down of statues is not going to improve the quality of life for anyone.

Seeing as you think I target you, this is it from me. I’m never going to agree with you on this subject as our views are miles apart.

All the best.

[Rileybobs]

Once again, the use of the word “ babies “ is childish, inflammatory and dramatic. The word babies is unnecessary as none of them are killed as babies.

Seriously, I don’t follow your posts at all. The only reason I have answered you the last few times is because you quote me and I get a notification that you have.

To Colburns post about Kahn you said “so racism doesn’t exist because the mayor of London is from a minority ethnic group? Sounds legit”

I don’t think Colburn claimed that racism doesn’t exist. I think it was probably that Khan has made something of himself in Britain, as have many BAME people, so perhaps, with him being in a position of influence, he should talk about the positives of being raised and educated in Britain and not just the negatives.

The pulling down of statues is not going to improve the quality of life for anyone.

Seeing as you think I target you, this is it from me. I’m never going to agree with you on this subject as our views are miles apart.

All the best.

For the record I don’t think you target or follow me, you just made a reference to my posts in general as being childish - so I assume you must follow what I say to a degree.

To your point about the use of the word babies, you’re totally wrong. I’ve explained why I used that phrase and i can say with absolutely honesty that it wasn’t meant as inflammatory or dramatic. If I said 1 in 1000 of every black men born would die at the hands of the police then it would sound a little odd. Anyway, if you choose to not believe me that’s fine and I’m happy to leave it at that.

[Give Quiche a Chance]

#VirtueSignallingMatters