Food standards petition

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chadders
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Food standards petition

Post by chadders » Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:54 am

https://www.fwi.co.uk/news/eu-referendu ... signatures

Farmers are getting rightly concerned about food production standards particularly regarding trade talks with the US. Protests are planned for 20th June in London. Potentially imported food from the US will not have the same high quality standards that the EU/UK currently have. Cheaper imported food from the US of A will potentially contain higher levels of pesticides.

https://www.pan-uk.org/toxic-trade/?utm ... ign=buffer
hope the link works.
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dsr
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Re: Food standards petition

Post by dsr » Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:04 am

The US certainly doesn't have the same high quality standards as the UK - that's beyond doubt. Whether it has the same standards as the EU, especially the eastern parts of the EU, is much more open to question. They win on some, they lose on others.
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Re: Food standards petition

Post by Damo » Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:39 am

It's time they opened the f****** pubs
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Re: Food standards petition

Post by Clarets4me » Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:08 am

This is a short sighted " protectionist " measure, being promoted by the NFU and various big agricultural producers .... we already import vast amounts of frozen chicken from Thailand, sold by Iceland, Farm Foods, and the supermarkets ...

If you don't want to buy US poultry or beef, don't !
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Re: Food standards petition

Post by TheFamilyCat » Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:32 am

Are these the same farmers who voted to leave the EU?
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Re: Food standards petition

Post by bobinho » Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:39 am

TheFamilyCat wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:32 am
Are these the same farmers who voted to leave the EU?
Only 52%, so it shouldn’t count. :shock:
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chadders
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Re: Food standards petition

Post by chadders » Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:11 am

As consumers we need to look at the quality not just the short term 'price' on the supermarket shelf. The US (not every food producer obvs) uses a lot of pesticides that have multiple serious implications. We need to maintain and improve on our food production standards for health, welfare, sustainability and environmental reasons - not water these standards down or back track on promises.
Worth signing the petition if you are concerned about the quality of your food and its production.

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Re: Food standards petition

Post by Zlatan » Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:35 am

I think the easiest way to compare food standards between the UK and the US is to look at how fat they are (on average). Cheap nasty food has lower nutritional value so they (on average) eat more and have larger frames

I know it's not as simple as that, but we all have free choice about what we consume - just look at the queuing for hours to get the fast food fix at most Maccy D's in the country

I personally would keep the ban on chlorinated chicken and some of the other types of food that are lower in standards because I would want food to be as good as it can be for all of us, but money talks
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Re: Food standards petition

Post by evensteadiereddie » Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:39 am

bobinho wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:39 am
Only 52%, so it shouldn’t count. :shock:

I bet the number of farmers who voted Leave was a damn sight higher than 52 %.

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Re: Food standards petition

Post by bobinho » Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:44 am

evensteadiereddie wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:39 am
I bet the number of farmers who voted Leave was a damn sight higher than 52 %.
Really? See, I would’ve estimated quite a bit less, what with the EU farming subsidies. Matters not now I suppose.

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Re: Food standards petition

Post by TheFamilyCat » Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:53 am

I think, in really simple terms, farmers disliked to EU agricultural policy more than they liked the subsidies.

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Re: Food standards petition

Post by fatboy47 » Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:06 am

I'd love to help the farmers out.

They're all such tolerant, broad-minded, inclusive, warm-hearted and engaging people. And they're all really poor and hard done to as well.

When other sections of the community fall on hard times the farmers are the first there to lend support and a listening ear.

My thoughts are with them at this difficult time.

Actually, they can suck it up. I never met a farmer interested in anything other than filling his pockets.

Michael Eavis excepted.

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Re: Food standards petition

Post by Colburn_Claret » Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:43 am

I can understand why people would be worried about food standards, that's a given, but how bad are these American standards. Presumably, they haven't done any harm to Americans, otherwise they would have resolved the issue. Secondly, if the Americans have the right to sell food here, it doesn’t mean that retailers have to import it. Finally if Retailers do go for the cheap option, WE don't have to buy it. Produce in supermarkets have to label where the food comes from. If its going to food processors, to be turned into chicken nuggets, then food processors need to label where their ingredients come from.
It's in our own hands. There's a bigger picture to be looked at, food standatds is a small but important part of any trade negotiations with the US. I'd rather we ensured the food we import meets our own high standards, but unless there is genuine risk to health, cutting our nose off to spite our face doesn’t help us. Personally, I won't be buying it, but don't hinder a trade deal that can bring positives for many businesses.

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Re: Food standards petition

Post by martin_p » Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:51 am

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:43 am
I can understand why people would be worried about food standards, that's a given, but how bad are these American standards. Presumably, they haven't done any harm to Americans, otherwise they would have resolved the issue. Secondly, if the Americans have the right to sell food here, it doesn’t mean that retailers have to import it. Finally if Retailers do go for the cheap option, WE don't have to buy it. Produce in supermarkets have to label where the food comes from. If its going to food processors, to be turned into chicken nuggets, then food processors need to label where their ingredients come from.
It's in our own hands. There's a bigger picture to be looked at, food standatds is a small but important part of any trade negotiations with the US. I'd rather we ensured the food we import meets our own high standards, but unless there is genuine risk to health, cutting our nose off to spite our face doesn’t help us. Personally, I won't be buying it, but don't hinder a trade deal that can bring positives for many businesses.
Lots of people will go for the cheapest option simply for budgetary reasons. If enough people do then it’ll drive the more expensive producers out of business and we’ll all be stuck with it.
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KateR
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Re: Food standards petition

Post by KateR » Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:26 pm

martin_p wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:51 am
Lots of people will go for the cheapest option simply for budgetary reasons. If enough people do then it’ll drive the more expensive producers out of business and we’ll all be stuck with it.
Obviously for the same reasons Waitrose and M&S Food are going out of business I suppose
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Re: Food standards petition

Post by martin_p » Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:43 pm

KateR wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:26 pm
Obviously for the same reasons Waitrose and M&S Food are going out of business I suppose
They take a very small percentage of the food market.

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Re: Food standards petition

Post by KateR » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:08 pm

martin_p wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:43 pm
They take a very small percentage of the food market.
but they and others have that place unlike your statement of we will "all" be stuck with it, it's a minor point but I'm firmly in there are choices camp so don't restrict my choice. I and millions of Americans eat US food and I agree that quality food should be offered as best and I buy a lot of organic products but alternatives are needed.

I am certainly in the camp of animal welfare though and that needs to be at the top of the agenda but it's not an American problem, been discussed numerous times and it is not a meaningful argument in my opinion to stop a trade deal with the US. What you are advocating is stop an opportunity for people on low/zero incomes the choice of an alternative and I disagree with your stance.

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Re: Food standards petition

Post by Spijed » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:35 pm

Chicken farms seem to be one area where there will be no British winners leaving the EU, especially if far bigger American companies corner the market of battery raised chickens.

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Re: Food standards petition

Post by Billy Balfour » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:44 pm

I've signed it. They can shoved their chlorinated chicken where the sun doesn't shine. Support British Farming standards!

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Re: Food standards petition

Post by Burnley Ace » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:53 pm

fatboy47 wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:06 am
Actually, they can suck it up. I never met a farmer interested in anything other than filling his pockets.

Michael Eavis excepted.
Multi millionaire Michael Eavis?

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Re: Food standards petition

Post by Burnley Ace » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:58 pm

Spijed wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:35 pm
Chicken farms seem to be one area where there will be no British winners leaving the EU, especially if far bigger American companies corner the market of battery raised chickens.
Most of the “cheap” chicken comes Frozen from Brazil and Thailand. It’s imported into Netherlands where it is processed into your nuggets and swizzlers before being refrozen and exported as EU chicken. About 20% is contaminated with salmonella (google Brazil chicken salmonella)

There is more chlorine in a bag of washed salad than on a chicken - it’s what the chlorine hides that is more of a worry.
Last edited by Burnley Ace on Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Food standards petition

Post by HollandsPies » Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:07 pm

For farmers attending a protest ... basic minimum requirement would be to bring their muck spreader.

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Re: Food standards petition

Post by Rowls » Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:13 pm

Spijed wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:35 pm
Chicken farms seem to be one area where there will be no British winners leaving the EU, especially if far bigger American companies corner the market of battery raised chickens.
Unless you're somebody who appreciates being able to buy much cheaper chicken of course.

Naturally, I try to avoid factory farmed stuff.

But would I dream of lecturing, for example. a single mother who might very much appreciate being able to treat her family to chicken once in a while at a much cheaper price? No, I wouldn't.

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Re: Food standards petition

Post by martin_p » Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:17 pm

Rowls wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:13 pm
Unless you're somebody who appreciates being able to buy much cheaper chicken of course.

Naturally, I try to avoid factory farmed stuff.

But would I dream of lecturing, for example. a single mother who might very much appreciate being able to treat her family to chicken once in a while at a much cheaper price? No, I wouldn't.
As long as you're prepared to accept it'll cost British jobs then fine.

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Re: Food standards petition

Post by Spijed » Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:18 pm

Rowls wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:13 pm
Unless you're somebody who appreciates being able to buy much cheaper chicken of course.

Naturally, I try to avoid factory farmed stuff.

But would I dream of lecturing, for example. a single mother who might very much appreciate being able to treat her family to chicken once in a while at a much cheaper price? No, I wouldn't.
But the point is, for those types of British industries, leaving the EU is a complete disaster as they will be undercut by American companies.

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Re: Food standards petition

Post by Rowls » Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:19 pm

martin_p wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:17 pm
As long as you're prepared to accept it'll cost British jobs then fine.
I accept it *may* but I certainly do not accept that it will and I think it unlikely. And the payoff is that everybody would have access to cheaper chicken. We have to compete with the world, not hide from it.

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Re: Food standards petition

Post by grapidianclaret » Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:22 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:43 am
I can understand why people would be worried about food standards, that's a given, but how bad are these American standards. Presumably, they haven't done any harm to Americans, otherwise they would have resolved the issue. Secondly, if the Americans have the right to sell food here, it doesn’t mean that retailers have to import it. Finally if Retailers do go for the cheap option, WE don't have to buy it. Produce in supermarkets have to label where the food comes from. If its going to food processors, to be turned into chicken nuggets, then food processors need to label where their ingredients come from.
It's in our own hands. There's a bigger picture to be looked at, food standatds is a small but important part of any trade negotiations with the US. I'd rather we ensured the food we import meets our own high standards, but unless there is genuine risk to health, cutting our nose off to spite our face doesn’t help us. Personally, I won't be buying it, but don't hinder a trade deal that can bring positives for many businesses.
Its bad out here in the USA. I have only been here for 23 years.When I left England I was a solid healthy rugby playing machine.After 23 years of American food, American beer and a short marriage to an American woman,I am Fooked. I have also developed a disgusting snowflakey attitude too.
BEWARE THE AMERICAN FOOD!!!!!! (beer and women too)

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Re: Food standards petition

Post by martin_p » Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:25 pm

Rowls wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:19 pm
I accept it *may* but I certainly do not accept that it will and I think it unlikely. And the payoff is that everybody would have access to cheaper chicken. We have to compete with the world, not hide from it.
There's only a finite chicken market. If a large portion of that is taken by cheap US imports how is it not going to impact other companies?

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Re: Food standards petition

Post by dsr » Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:29 pm

Spijed wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:18 pm
But the point is, for those types of British industries, leaving the EU is a complete disaster as they will be undercut by American companies.
I doubt that American farms are so much cheaper than Eastern European ones. We know that Eastern Europe has much lower labour costs than the UK, for example, because of all the Eastern Europeans that prefer to work here. Are American wages lower than, say, Poland's?
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Re: Food standards petition

Post by Rowls » Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:34 pm

martin_p wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:51 am
Lots of people will go for the cheapest option simply for budgetary reasons. If enough people do then it’ll drive the more expensive producers out of business and we’ll all be stuck with it.
If this was going to happen it would already have happened wouldn't it? If you go to a large supermarket do you only have a budget option for chicken? Most supermarkets offer at least a budget, standard and premium option.

Your view of how economics works seems to be similar to a Communist planning committee.
martin_p wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:25 pm
There's only a finite chicken market. If a large portion of that is taken by cheap US imports how is it not going to impact other companies?
There's only a finite chicken market.

UK producers have the advantage of lower transport costs.

Producers of premium chicken will be solely UK based because of this.

Honestly, this chicken obsession that growing in the old remain fraternity is getting as bad as their obsession with EU sibsidies ("we'll lose them if we leave!") and their obsession about the old British Empire.

Don't want imported chicken? The don't buy imported chicken.

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Re: Food standards petition

Post by martin_p » Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:36 pm

Rowls wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:34 pm
If this was going to happen it would already have happened wouldn't it? If you go to a large supermarket do you only have a budget option for chicken? Most supermarkets offer at least a budget, standard and premium option.

Your view of how economics works seems to be similar to a Communist planning committee.



There's only a finite chicken market.

UK producers have the advantage of lower transport costs.

Producers of premium chicken will be solely UK based because of this.

Honestly, this chicken obsession that growing in the old remain fraternity is getting as bad as their obsession with EU sibsidies ("we'll lose them if we leave!") and their obsession about the old British Empire.

Don't want imported chicken? The don't buy imported chicken.
Glad that's sorted then, the UK chicken producers who worry about this are clearly wrong, what do they know about it anyway!

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Re: Food standards petition

Post by dsr » Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:43 pm

martin_p wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:36 pm
Glad that's sorted then, the UK chicken producers who worry about this are clearly wrong, what do they know about it anyway!
When a farmer, or any other business, says that he wants his industry protected from foreign imports, it isn't necessarily because he thinks it would be bad for the country. He might just be thinking that a restricted market would be better for him.

All these anti-cheap-chicken-from-the-USA arguments would be more convincing if many of them weren't coming from people who are in favour of cheap chicken from the EU. The NFU petition wording is opposing imports from everywhere with lower standards; not just the USA. They don't spell it out, but seems pretty clear that if the government accepts the petition and does insist on UK welfare standards on all imported food, then any prospect of an extension to the EU transition period is completely gone. The EU would never concede a restriction on food exports while letting everything else carry on as before.

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Re: Food standards petition

Post by fatboy47 » Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:09 pm

Burnley Ace wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:53 pm
Multi millionaire Michael Eavis?


I know Michael better than most.

He's a man with little or no interest in accumulating wealth. His publicised "net worth" represents a tiny fraction of what it could be were he so minded.

I've seen the efforts hes made to ensure that the proceeds of "Glastonbury"" are funnelled into a range of projects that benefit the less privileged in his local community.

He is not , I assure you, a typical farmer in any way.
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Re: Food standards petition

Post by Burnley Ace » Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:26 pm

martin_p wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:17 pm
As long as you're prepared to accept it'll cost British jobs then fine.
Will it cost British jobs? We cannot compete on cost with Brazil, are America looking at the Premium market?

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Re: Food standards petition

Post by Rowls » Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:34 pm

Burnley Ace wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:26 pm
Will it cost British jobs? We cannot compete on cost with Brazil, are America looking at the Premium market?
Are America looking at the premium market? No.

American meat is, on the whole, disgusting. They pump there livestock with steroids to force grow them and pump the final product with all sort too. They are the masters of the factory farm.

It is tasteless, ethically dubious pap. But cheap protein supplies is what is required if you enjoy anything like McDonalds, Burger King, KFC etc etc. The world wants to eat meat.

They cannot ever compete with something like saltmarsh lamb from the Norfolk broads or Aberdeen Angus from the highlands.

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Re: Food standards petition

Post by dougcollins » Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:38 pm

fatboy47 wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:06 am
I'd love to help the farmers out.

They're all such tolerant, broad-minded, inclusive, warm-hearted and engaging people. And they're all really poor and hard done to as well.

When other sections of the community fall on hard times the farmers are the first there to lend support and a listening ear.

My thoughts are with them at this difficult time.

Actually, they can suck it up. I never met a farmer interested in anything other than filling his pockets.

Michael Eavis excepted.
Bad news, he likes filling his pockets as well.

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Re: Food standards petition

Post by mdd2 » Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:41 pm

Zlatan wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:35 am
I think the easiest way to compare food standards between the UK and the US is to look at how fat they are (on average). Cheap nasty food has lower nutritional value so they (on average) eat more and have larger frames

I know it's not as simple as that, but we all have free choice about what we consume - just look at the queuing for hours to get the fast food fix at most Maccy D's in the country

I personally would keep the ban on chlorinated chicken and some of the other types of food that are lower in standards because I would want food to be as good as it can be for all of us, but money talks
Isn't the chlorination to kill off campylobacter which is a problem here in the UK?
What is lacking in the nutritional value of the average US diet compared with us. Surely calories are greater, the carb content may be higher, fat and protein probably more. Certainly more vitamin D as they put it in milk. What poorer nutritional qualities does their diet contain that we manage to keep out apart from some hormone fed meat which is likely lost in cooking.

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Re: Food standards petition

Post by Zlatan » Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:06 pm

mdd2 wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:41 pm
Isn't the chlorination to kill off campylobacter which is a problem here in the UK?
What is lacking in the nutritional value of the average US diet compared with us. Surely calories are greater, the carb content may be higher, fat and protein probably more. Certainly more vitamin D as they put it in milk. What poorer nutritional qualities does their diet contain that we manage to keep out apart from some hormone fed meat which is likely lost in cooking.
All good questions, but doesn’t answer why yanks are larger than they should be

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Re: Food standards petition

Post by Burnley Ace » Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:14 pm

mdd2 wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:41 pm
Isn't the chlorination to kill off campylobacter which is a problem here in the UK?
Chlorine is a bit of a red herring as there is more chlorine in a bag of washed salad. There are other issues with the quality of US chicken that are more serious but they don’t have the same psychological impact as “CHLORINE!!!”
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Re: Food standards petition

Post by Zlatan » Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:42 pm

Burnley Ace wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:14 pm
Chlorine is a bit of a red herring as there is more chlorine in a bag of washed salad. There are other issues with the quality of US chicken that are more serious but they don’t have the same psychological impact as “CHLORINE!!!”
Of course it’s a bit of a red herring, of a sort. In that it’s used primarily because of the much lower standards of production of chicken in the US which means it needs to be chlorinated. I don’t object to chlorination per se, just the reasons for having to use it in the first place. I mean, how bad must the meat be to need chlorination?

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Re: Food standards petition

Post by dsr » Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:17 pm

Zlatan wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:06 pm
All good questions, but doesn’t answer why yanks are larger than they should be
Because they eat too much. Most people get fat by eating too much; there are other ways, but eating too much is the top one.

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Re: Food standards petition

Post by chadders » Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:47 pm

I won't knowingly buy it if its on the shelf or suspect its origin. I'm concerned with the over use of antibiotics as growth promoters (especially now) and use of fertilisers and pesticides. Soils are really struggling globally as a result of years of various farming practices. The variety or range of products/vegetables on a large scale and its nutritional value of food has fallen. If folk are interested its worth investigating soil food web and how important that is in agriculture rather than relying on excessive use of pesticides and fertilisers to promote growth. Alain Savory (hope I've got that right) is interesting chap - leading scientist - mob grazing and holistic management. Rengerative agriculture is gaining some momentum. Mob grazing looks to replicate how grazing animals, particularly migrating herds, benefit the soils, root growth and scaling that down to farm level helping improve productivity and food nutrient levels. Bacteria and fungi aid in the transfer of minerals from soils to the plant. Nature being pretty whizzy doing its thing.

chipbutty
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Re: Food standards petition

Post by chipbutty » Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:07 am

Damo wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:39 am
It's time they opened the f****** pubs
Bleach in your chicken or open pubs?

tarkys_ears
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Re: Food standards petition

Post by tarkys_ears » Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:32 am

As far as I'm aware they've not had a BSE pandemic or a horsemeat scandal in the USA....

...but the EU is SOOOOO much better, right?

Damo
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Re: Food standards petition

Post by Damo » Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:44 am

chipbutty wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:07 am
Bleach in your chicken or open pubs?
Open pubs

Stanbill05
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Re: Food standards petition

Post by Stanbill05 » Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:25 am

I’m currently working for Americans who provide the food. The Food is great so far as I’m concerned. Just had my porridge for breakfast watching my yank mates put at least 1500 calories of sugar and fat away. Nothing to do food standards that one, just poor choices and ridiculous portions sizes.

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Re: Food standards petition

Post by Burnley Ace » Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:40 pm

Stanbill05 wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:25 am
I’m currently working for Americans who provide the food. The Food is great so far as I’m concerned. Just had my porridge for breakfast watching my yank mates put at least 1500 calories of sugar and fat away. Nothing to do food standards that one, just poor choices and ridiculous portions sizes.
They can certainly motor through a stack of pancakes and syrup (with a side of bacon and sausage) in minutes!!

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