Free school meals over summer.

[claretandy]

It’s amazing how creative people can be in terms of coming up with reasons for not wanting to feed children of poor people. I’m astonished that the government even has to think about whether or not to help. It shows the level of heartlessness.

Ultimately the underlying reasons for poverty have to be addressed. Low pay, insecure work, extremely high cost of living, gross inequality, and a hollowed our social system. If anyone actually believes a Tory government will fix these issues, I have some farmland in Antarctica you might want to buy.

The government represent more seats with free school meals than Labour, but you carry on.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Absolutely not and every child should get 3 meals a day but the way it's going parents will have zero responsibility. The government should be saying the £15 a week your getting now manage the money, use it wisely and spread it over summer. Unless eating meal deals from Tesco's or happy meals from mcds there is no need at all for £15 a week, that's alot of money for one child's lunch. People with more than one child will be getting a small fortune. When that money stops and it will eventually the kids will suffer more.

£15 ÷ 5 = £3.

£3 a day to feed a kid lunch.

A section of society cannot afford to have their kids at home for so long, especially if their own wages have been cut.
Kids at home always eat more food than they would if they're in school.

If you were a parent then you'd understand that.

Stop whinging about a good thing being done to help those who need it and will appreciate it.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I haven't seen a post that says children shouldn't be fed, money needs to stop being poured into people's pockets. That is not the answer.

They aren't getting cash, they're getting vouchers.

[Devils_Advocate]

The government represent more seats with free school meals than Labour, but you carry on.

Fair play to Johnson for updating his linkedin profile so quickly and something as PM he can be really proud about

[AndrewJB]

All I want to know is the % of those on free dinners that also have luxury items.

If someone can tell me and its significantly low then I'll be on board.

I currently presume that a lot have new phones, cars, always get new clothes etc.

Happy to be wrong though.

Was this test put in place for people receiving furlough pay? Odd that many people who touted the furlough scheme as showing the government has compassion are now quibbling over a scheme that costs peanuts in comparison, and could be argued is more important.

[MACCA]

"Some people may abuse the system" is a pretty rubbish argument against this
People abuse and exploit all sorts of things. Benefits and taxation are two quick examples.
If even a quarter of the kids that will benefit from this eat better or get a meal they may have missed then it's worth every penny

A quater?
As in 25%?

I've not much time for a debate tonight, but I dont agree that if only 25% if children "get a meal" that could be as little as 10% of the monies their parent has been given can be classed as worth every penny.

Every child should get fed every single day, throwing money at it hoping it might trickle down, and SOME might get fed isnt the answer IMO

[IanMcL]

Well done Marcus Rashford.
You did the kids of the nation a favour.
Thank you.

[nyclaret]

Imagine getting angry at kids receiving free school meals over the summer. What a life Marcus Rashford, take a bow! What an exceptional role model and young man

[Billy Balfour]

Sad to see some people not supporting this. Especially in a town like ours where we have more than our fair share of families who are struggling to get by on a daily basis.

Anyway, another mess for Johnson. The govt could have done this yesterday and they would have got some credit for looking compassionate, but instead they dug in deep and doubled-down. Now they have managed to make themselves look mean for refusing, then weak for u-turning.

I wonder whether 'genius' Dominic was worth saving? It's supposed to be his job to prevent own goals like this one.

[Devils_Advocate]

For all those perturbed and upset about their taxes being wasted on starving children their is some good news today to cheer you up

Johnson is having a grey military aircraft painted the colours of the Union Jack for him and his senior cabinet ministers to use for official business

The EU is gonna sh*t its pants when a big Union Jack coloured plane flys into Brussels

[ksrclaret]

For all those perturbed and upset about their taxes being wasted on starving children their is some good news today to cheer you up

Johnson is having a grey military aircraft painted the colours of the Union Jack for him and his senior cabinet ministers to use for official business

The EU is gonna sh*t its pants when a big Union Jack coloured plane flys into Brussels

I'm gonna crack open a 16 pack of tinnies and p1ss all over a memorial to celebrate this news!!!

Best country in the world!!

[Damo]

A quater?
As in 25%?

I've not much time for a debate tonight, but I dont agree that if only 25% if children "get a meal" that could be as little as 10% of the monies their parent has been given can be classed as worth every penny.

Every child should get fed every single day, throwing money at it hoping it might trickle down, and SOME might get fed isnt the answer IMO

Unfortunately not every child gets fed every single day. Not what they should be fed anyway.
And I agree that no ammount of money will solve the problem. But the relative small ammount this is costing will help some kids eat properly

Not sure what the rest of your comment meant regarding percentages

[Damo]

I'm gonna crack open a 16 pack of tinnies and p1ss all over a memorial to celebrate this news!!!

Best country in the world!!

Or draw all over one?

[Dy1geo]

Totally agree that no child should go hungry in the U.K. and there are a myriad of reasons why they do.

I cannot see why this is being played out as an embarrassing “U-Turn” by Boris, they gave £64 million to local councils to try to address the issue. I cannot remember any Labour Govt. in the past paying meal vouchers in school holidays and it was the Liberal’s who pushed for free school meals for U7’s whilst in School.

I would like to think that those in receipt of these vouchers will use them for their children and no doubt the vast majority will, but sadly there will be a few who abuse it but I for one from my position call for it to be stopped because of the poor actions of the few.

The underlying cause is poverty and that applies to people of all colours and the best way out of it is education, I benefited from a good state one, I worked hard to get where I have got today and whilst Sport is only a way out for the lucky few, Rashford should use his new platform to stress the need to work hard at school to avoid this continuing cycle.

[SammyBoy]

Can’t it come out of the foreign aid we’re going to be cutting any day now? Surely feeding hungry British kids is considered a worthy cause by the charity begins at home brigade.

[martin_p]

I can't detect a hint of "bitterness", "misanthropy" or "not wanting to feed children" yet several posters are claiming this?

Perhaps platitudes like "feed the children" are easy yet questions like "why are children going hungry in the first place?" are much trickier.

And maybe even those who have the intelligence to ask them more pertinent question might understand that if you ask a complex question you very often require a complex answer. Even then, your response might not be the same as your neighbour despite you both having the same good intentions.

But keep banging the drum, people. Especially if it makes you feel better about yourself. Keep banging the drum.

If you’ve got a solution that can be implemented before the summer holidays start then send it in to the government! Everyone knows this isn’t a long term answer, but everyone should also know these are extraordinary times that require short term measures until the world returns to a more normal state. But don’t hold your breath if you think this government are going to address the longer term issues.

[martin_p]

The media will try and put a negative spin on anything. Modern journalism is infested with some absolute pond life.
I cant remember the last time I read a newspaper and it's been weeks and weeks since I last watched the news

The government said they were doing one thing and now they are doing the opposite, that’s a u-turn by any definition.

[Damo]

The government said they were doing one thing and now they are doing the opposite, that’s a u-turn by any definition.

A government that listens to the people and implements what it decides
Now I understand why someone wanting to sell newspapers would want to make that contentious. So people like you buy them

[martin_p]

A government that listens to the people and implements what it decides
Now I understand why someone wanting to sell newspapers would want to make that contentious. So people like you buy them

Where can I find details of this government consultation on this?

[GodIsADeeJay81]

If you’ve got a solution that can be implemented before the summer holidays start then send it in to the government! Everyone knows this isn’t a long term answer, but everyone should also know these are extraordinary times that require short term measures until the world returns to a more normal state. But don’t hold your breath if you think this government are going to address the longer term issues.

Longer term issues are what exactly?

They're probably the same longer term issues that have been around since I was a kid under Thatcher.

Cost of living compared to wages is an ongoing issue.

Availability of social housing is an issue that hasn't been properly addressed when the population expanded and we'd been selling off social housing.
The spare room tax wasn't thought out very well, unsurprisingly for our civil service/gov, there were better ways to encourage people to downsize.

House prices has never been looked at, there is no justifiable reason that house prices should be so exorbitant, especially as the average wage is £30k (big thanks to London for that one) yet the average house price is £250k (again thanks London) and leads to renting costs being ridiculous.

After school care/clubs are in demand, or none existant.
Child care at an affordable price to allow parents to return to work is something worth looking at, because it isn't financially viable for parents to return to work when all the other costs are added up.

The benefits system has been a joke since I was a kid and the UC set up made it worse.
Not enough has been done to stop people ripping off the system, nor has enough been done to ensure those who genuinely need help actually get it.

All of these issues have been around for decades yet you're convinced that this Tory gov isn't going to do anything about it when they're currently behaving like no previous Tory government that I can remember and have only been in office with a decent majority since December and have had a couple of big issues to sort out...

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Where can I find details of this government consultation on this?

Do they need to consult the public on everything?
They're paid to make decisions and if needed to change them.
Sure there will be times when they'll gauge public reaction to something and go with the flow, you'd be hard pressed to name a government that hasn't done the same, but they don't need to hold a Poll or referendum on everything

[martin_p]

Longer term issues are what exactly?

They're probably the same longer term issues that have been around since I was a kid under Thatcher.

Cost of living compared to wages is an ongoing issue.

Availability of social housing is an issue that hasn't been properly addressed when the population expanded and we'd been selling off social housing.
The spare room tax wasn't thought out very well, unsurprisingly for our civil service/gov, there were better ways to encourage people to downsize.

House prices has never been looked at, there is no justifiable reason that house prices should be so exorbitant, especially as the average wage is £30k (big thanks to London for that one) yet the average house price is £250k (again thanks London) and leads to renting costs being ridiculous.

After school care/clubs are in demand, or none existant.
Child care at an affordable price to allow parents to return to work is something worth looking at, because it isn't financially viable for parents to return to work when all the other costs are added up.

The benefits system has been a joke since I was a kid and the UC set up made it worse.
Not enough has been done to stop people ripping off the system, nor has enough been done to ensure those who genuinely need help actually get it.

All of these issues have been around for decades yet you're convinced that this Tory gov isn't going to do anything about it when they're currently behaving like no previous Tory government that I can remember and have only been in office with a decent majority since December and have had a couple of big issues to sort out...

So you think they are going to sort it then?

[martin_p]

Do they need to consult the public on everything?
They're paid to make decisions and if needed to change them.
Sure there will be times when they'll gauge public reaction to something and go with the flow, you'd be hard pressed to name a government that hasn't done the same, but they don't need to hold a Poll or referendum on everything

No they don’t, but Damo suggested the government has ‘listened to the people’.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

So you think they are going to sort it then?

I'm willing to have an open mind and see what they do once Covid and our final Brexit deal are out of the way.

They're currently propping up millions of people with the furlough scheme and have decided to keep handing out food vouchers until the end of the summer which is not bad really, especially considering your exceedingly low opinion of them.

They managed to get a large number of Labour voters to jump ship, to have a chance at winning the next election and still have a large majority they'll need to ensure they do some good work between now and then.
The furlough scheme and food vouchers won't be enough, nor will the final Brexit deal even if it was the best deal in the world ever because people have short memories at election time.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

No they don’t, but Damo suggested the government has ‘listened to the people’.

How do you listen to people so you can gauge their opinion?
Social media is usually a good start along with whatever the MSM are reporting on.

[martin_p]

How do you listen to people so you can gauge their opinion?
Social media is usually a good start along with whatever the MSM are reporting on.

Yep, the same MSM Damo was laying into.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Yep, the same MSM Damo was laying into.

That's the one and rightly so because a number of journos have been poor when it comes to the daily briefing.
Still it can be handy to get an idea of what the left are wanting if nothing else.

[Burnley Ace]

Where can I find details of this government consultation on this?

Do you really want a government that just pressed on regardless, that doesn’t take an opportunity to reconsider or listen to other opinion?

[Devils_Advocate]

Do you really want a government that just pressed on regardless, that doesn’t take an opportunity to reconsider or listen to other opinion?

No, but this govt was refusing to listen to anyone on this matter to the point the opposition was going to bring a vote to the house to challenge the policy with the support of many rebel Tory MPs

They only U-turned when they realised they couldn't get away from the fact public opinion was gonna go against them because of the media spotlight Rashford shined on them

A good govt wouldnt have put forward this policy
A decent govt would have listened to its own MPs and opposition MPs and reconsidered the policy
A populist PR disaster of a govt would have ploughed on until they realised they'd look like the bad guys

What a shame we're stuck with a bunch of charlatans in charge

[Blackrod]

I was wondering if it was cash or vouchers. Cash would not be a good idea. Vouchers that can only be exchanged for food ( ie not fags and booze) ,perhaps with matching ID, would be if it is for the poorest in society. Nobody in their right mind wants to see a child go hungry.

[agreenwood]

There was a lady on the radio this morning. She was a single parent of three kids. She was recently unemployed and waiting to start a new job in a nursery, but that was unlikely to be until September.

She described how her benefits covered her rent and council tax in the south east. She was then left with £30 a week to buy food. She couldn’t afford to pay her utility bills etc. Apparently the meal vouchers had been a godsend.

I’ve never been on benefits and don’t know how they work, but i was perfectly happy to take her story at face value and I’m glad to hear that the school meal vouchers will be extended through the summer.

[Damo]

Martin is absolutely fuming that the kids are being fed.
Jesus

[martin_p]

Martin is absolutely fuming that the kids are being fed.
Jesus

I’m delighted. But I wouldn’t have thought that feeding kids Is something the government would need to be pressured into. I think Marcus Rashford and the media that enabled this u-turn should be congratulated.

[AndrewJB]

Terrible how many people on here perpetuate the myth that poor people don’t look after their children. That they’d spend the money on drugs, or makeup, or a new television. If what you’re saying were true we’d have a lot of children dying from neglect. Children that fall into that category are taken into care. And the very small number who die as a result of neglect make national headlines.

It’s far more likely that poor parents go without so their children can eat, and if you’re a parent you’d probably agree - this is what you’d do too.

I have to ask you, where do you get your information from? It seems to me from the rightwing press, because you can look up the facts for yourselves, but you continue to repeat hard right rubbish while also touting the biggest welfare give away this country has ever had without questioning the many flaws and frauds.

[AndrewJB]

Terrible how many people on here perpetuate the myth that poor people don’t look after their children. That they’d spend the money on drugs, or makeup, or a new television. If what you’re saying were true we’d have a lot of children dying from neglect. Children that fall into that category are taken into care. And the very small number who die as a result of neglect make national headlines.

It’s far more likely that poor parents go without so their children can eat, and if you’re a parent you’d probably agree - this is what you’d do too.

I have to ask you, where do you get your information from? It seems to me from the rightwing press, because you can look up the facts for yourselves, but you continue to repeat hard right rubbish while also touting the biggest welfare give away this country has ever had without questioning the many flaws and frauds.

[claretandy]

Why did Labour never do it ?

[pushpinpussy]

Why is it that so many people feel that everyone who is experiencing a rough time is entitled to a government handout? It is pathetic that so many Britain's have become that lazy that they no longer want to work, but want to collect welfare and government freebies. And please, I'm not talking about the truly needy or disabled. I'm talking about the many who can work, but feel they don't have to, who feel the government owes them a handout. People should be ashamed. There's so many jobs out there even for people with little or no skills at all. I have to admit that even though I have 2 children I have yet to have or claim one penny from the government in any sort of handout. Why? Myself and my wife work damn hard. We save for a rainy day (like COVID) and we are not lazy.

[fatboy47]

Why is it that so many people feel that everyone who is experiencing a rough time is entitled to a government handout? It is pathetic that so many Britain's have become that lazy that they no longer want to work, but want to collect welfare and government freebies. And please, I'm not talking about the truly needy or disabled. I'm talking about the many who can work, but feel they don't have to, who feel the government owes them a handout. People should be ashamed. There's so many jobs out there even for people with little or no skills at all. I have to admit that even though I have 2 children I have yet to have or claim one penny from the government in any sort of handout. Why? Myself and my wife work damn hard. We save for a rainy day (like COVID) and we are not lazy.

Nobody's calling you ( or Damo etc) lazy.

Narrow-minded, envious, ignorant and gullible maybe.... but not lazy. No way.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Great work by Rashford. Not sure how anyone could have an issue with a child being fed.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Why did Labour never do it ?

If you look at their official twitter account they actually claimed to have done it yesterday and ignored the role Rashford played.

[Dy1geo]

I support the school meals vouchers for kids, but the long term aim must be to get as many kids and families out of the benefits trap. I have a family member who has been on benefits for over 20 years and has totally accepted the position he is in, would I swap with his just getting by way of life, absolutely not he doesn’t run a car or go on holidays or meals out but he gets his rent paid doesn’t have to pay his council tax and can get by and has a group of friends in a similar position.

The system hasn’t helped him and there are people on the left, normally themselves in a more fortunate position who will argue against the likes of him having to take unpaid work experience etc to help him possibly break the cycle, it’s as if they would rather keep them poor as it benefits them electorally. Tony Blair’s government tried to address this cycle with a carrot and stick approach but got criticised. As I said earlier up the thread for the children education is the best way out of poverty rather than just throwing a few more quid at each family.

[evensteadiereddie]

Not on last night's news, they didn't, coaster.
Fair play to Rashford for helping bring about this u-turn. Embarrassing for the government - they'd have no doubt just about won the Labour-forced vote on this but the increasingly lousy publicity this government is generating about itself would have been too much.
What the Tories need is someone who can mastermind their strategy, firmly and decisively, ruthlessly efficiently with no errors, no ambiguity ....oh, hang on.

[martin_p]

Why did Labour never do it ?

Why did Labour never extend free school meals into the summer during a global pandemic when thousands of people had lost their jobs or were unable to get hours on their zero hours contract? Who knows?

[pushpinpussy]

Nobody's calling you ( or Damo etc) lazy.

Narrow-minded, envious, ignorant and gullible maybe.... but not lazy. No way.


Definitely none of those. I'm, lucky to have a very good lifestyle but myself and my wife work damn hard so we all can have a good lifestyle. We both sacrificed ourselves in our 20's and to some extent our 30's and made sure we had good careers with good prospects before having children.

Why?

Because What's the point of having kids if you can't afford them?

However, It must be great for some families who receive a monthly sum to help support their children for doing absolutely nothing. I'm not envious. I just don't understand why people would want to have children if they cannot afford them in the first place.

[Erasmus]

In response to Pushpinpussy's post: My work involves creating intellectual material that is marketed online and sells very well. This work requires office space mainly for those who transfer what I write into a form that can be marketed online. We therefore have to have office cleaners who work damned hard and are paid poverty wages, whilst myself and the others are paid very well. You could argue that this is because we create the product, but we couldn't do this without the cleaners who are therefore equally wealth creators.

I don't work very hard, and I never have really. It's quite easy for me to create material that sells. The cleaners work a lot harder than I do but their standard of living is much lower than mine, because of the very bare minimum that they are paid on zero hours contracts by the cleaning contracting company. These hard working people need help from the government to lift them out of poverty, whatever it takes, and I would be more than happy to pay higher taxes to bring a little more equality into society.

[pushpinpussy]

If you earn so much money Why don’t you either pay your cleaners who you obviously value highly a better wage. Or even give them a bonus

I have a Thai lady come once every week to clean my property. It takes her 4 hours. She doesn’t earn much so when it’s payday she likes to earn a bit more money so she does a few extras around the place. Everyone is happy

[Rowls]

Terrible how many people on here perpetuate the myth that poor people don’t look after their children. That they’d spend the money on drugs, or makeup, or a new television. If what you’re saying were true we’d have a lot of children dying from neglect. Children that fall into that category are taken into care. And the very small number who die as a result of neglect make national headlines.

It’s far more likely that poor parents go without so their children can eat, and if you’re a parent you’d probably agree - this is what you’d do too.

I have to ask you, where do you get your information from? It seems to me from the rightwing press, because you can look up the facts for yourselves, but you continue to repeat hard right rubbish while also touting the biggest welfare give away this country has ever had without questioning the many flaws and frauds.

It's far more *common* that parents go without rather than don't look after their children and whilst the numbers who actively take what is meant for their children and spend it on their own selfish wants is small, it is a significant minority.

It is difficult process to take a child into care and if a child is taken into care then they have doubtless already experienced a long history of neglect and/or abuse before they are removed from their parents.

The two people who have touched on this briefly are myself and MACCA.

Where do I get my information from? Seven years working with poor families and seeing it for myself.

I know it hurts your sensibilities but I've seen it with my own eyes. If people like yourself who call this kind of child abuse "a myth" (without any evidence that it is "a myth") were taken on face value, then you would be perpetuating these kinds of child abuse.

What personal experience do you have of dealing with cases of child abuse? MACCA can speak for himself but it would appear that both he and I have spent time "at the coalface" so to speak whereas you have not.

[Erasmus]

The cleaners work for the institution I work for so I don't have the power to change their working conditions. It is up to the senior managers who are above me. Sorry, perhaps I should have made that clearer.

[Erasmus]

Rowls, no one would call it a myth. It undoubtedly happens, but the point is that social workers and similar professionals see only those with problems and not the vast majority. The debate is about the vast majority who do the right thing and need assistance in doing it successfully.

[Rowls]

Rowls, no one would call it a myth. It undoubtedly happens, but the point is that social workers and similar professionals see only those with problems and not the vast majority. The debate is about the vast majority who do the right thing and need assistance in doing it successfully.

No, AndrewJB called it a myth and he attributed it to "the right wing press".