Free school meals over summer.

[fanzone]

Absolutely ridiculous decision to extend it over summer. The responsibility for some of these people who have children on benefits is less and less. The kids will suffer even worse when they return to school and the money stops.

[Damo]

I'm not a massive fan of the benefit system, but surely nobody is angry at the idea all kids will at least get some dinner this summer

[dushanbe]

Absolutely ridiculous decision to extend it over summer. The responsibility for some of these people who have children on benefits is less and less. The kids will suffer even worse when they return to school and the money stops.

Just watch who you label as 'some of these people on benefits', there will be millions more before the year is out. Lets hope you aren't one of them eh?

[evensteadiereddie]

I think you underestimate the extent of child poverty in this country, fanzone.

[MACCA]

I'm not a massive fan of the benefit system, but surely nobody is angry at the idea all kids will at least get some dinner this summer

That sadly still cannot be guaranteed.

[Swizzlestick]

Absolutely ridiculous decision to extend it over summer. The responsibility for some of these people who have children on benefits is less and less. The kids will suffer even worse when they return to school and the money stops.

Imagine having this mindset on a day to day basis. How depressing.

[fanzone]

I'm not a massive fan of the benefit system, but surely nobody is angry at the idea all kids will at least get some dinner this summer

Absolutely not and every child should get 3 meals a day but the way it's going parents will have zero responsibility. The government should be saying the £15 a week your getting now manage the money, use it wisely and spread it over summer. Unless eating meal deals from Tesco's or happy meals from mcds there is no need at all for £15 a week, that's alot of money for one child's lunch. People with more than one child will be getting a small fortune. When that money stops and it will eventually the kids will suffer more.

[Rowls]

If having a state welfare system prevented poverty then there would be no poverty in the UK.

It's an easy call to demand that "free meals" for children be extended because who could argue with feeding children?

Unfortunately it's a sticking plaster solution to a complex problem and it does nothing to address the underlying causes of poverty and most probably exacerbates the underlying problems.

[fanzone]

Just watch who you label as 'some of these people on benefits', there will be millions more before the year is out. Lets hope you aren't one of them eh?

I were referencing people who give birth, breed or multiply while on the benefit system. Any man or woman losing there employment should get all the help on offer.

[ksrclaret]

If having a state welfare system prevented poverty then there would be no poverty in the UK.

It's an easy call to demand that "free meals" for children be extended because who could argue with feeding children?

Unfortunately it's a sticking plaster solution to a complex problem and it does nothing to address the underlying causes of poverty and most probably exacerbates the underlying problems.

Plasters serve an important function. To stop other things from entering a wound when it is open.

The wound these kids have is huge at the moment. Sticking plaster most definitely needed whilst a long term solution is found (hahaha, as if that’ll happen).

[TVC15]

We are gonna need a hell of a lot of sticking plasters in the next few years unfortunately.

[MACCA]

Just read a story where a mum with 4 children said the £60 per week shes been getting for her children's dinners has helped her a hell of a lot.

It begs the question where they're shopping and what the children are eating for dinner?
£60 should be able to feed a an adult and 4 children 3 meals a day never mind 1.
Foods cheaper than it's ever been.

I understand the oppositions argument of how do you guarantee/police the money goes on nutritious food for the children to give them at least 1 hot meal a day?
Sasky yu can't, just like you cant guarantee their current benefit goes on clothing, food, and heating.

The extra £60 ( just going off the lady above ) could just mean a pack of turkey dinosaurs , 4 tins of beans and a bag of frozen chips.
Then the "left over" money could be splurged on make up, beer, fags, treats etc

I'm all for the idea, but it needs policing, as the current benefit system is already being exploited by many, and this will no doubt go the same way.

[Pimlico_Claret]

I were referencing people who give birth, breed or multiply while on the benefit system. Any man or woman losing there employment should get all the help on offer.

Assume you would advocate compulsory abortions for women who lose their jobs half way through pregnancy.

[TVC15]

That’s part of the problem Macca - it’s not the kids faults that they were born to shitty parents.
It’s virtually impossible to monitor this though as all you will end up doing is hurting the kids more than they already are.

As for those genuine parents who are not abusing the system (the majority) I don’t think they are living lives of luxury because of this.

[dushanbe]

I were referencing people who give birth, breed or multiply while on the benefit system. Any man or woman losing there employment should get all the help on offer.

Lets hope you don't lose your job as an English teacher.

[MACCA]

That’s part of the problem Macca - it’s not the kids faults that they were born to shitty parents.
It’s virtually impossible to monitor this though as all you will end up doing is hurting the kids more than they already are.

I think food parcels are the only safe way, where pre packed and paid for food can be guaranteed to reach the household, also the food can be monitored to make sure it's a well balanced diet with nutritional foods.

Any underprivileged childs parents currently doing a shop, wont suddenly up the food shop by £15 a child to guarantee a hot meal a day extra over the summer.
More likely is that if they're already struggling a small % if any will actually go on the child, and the rest used for other things.

Lots of people do a strict or regular shop, when extra income comes in, it may well just be seen as a bonus.
Remember this is for everyone on free school meals, theres lots that fall under that umbrella, many who will get it but not necessarily need it.

If born to sh1tty parents they are way down on their list of priorities, and that's regardless of whether they get £50 or £500 to help support their child(ren)

The problem is far greater than just throwing more and more money at it.
That's how and why the system starts to get exploited

[claret2018]

It makes you wonder what has happened to some people to get so frothing at the mouth over the idea of stopping kids going hungry over the summer.

[fanzone]

I think food parcels are the only safe way, where pre packed and paid for food can be guaranteed to reach the household, also the food can be monitored to make sure it's a well balanced diet with nutritional foods.

Any underprivileged childs parents currently doing a shop, wont suddenly up the food shop by £15 a child to guarantee a hot meal a day extra over the summer.
More likely is that if they're already struggling a small % if any will go on the child and the rest used for other things.

Lots of people do a strict or regular shop, when extra comes in it may well just be seen as a bonus.
Remember this is for everyone on free school meals, theres lots that fall under that umbrella, many who will get it but not necessarily need it.

If born to sh1tty parents they areway down on their list of priorities, and that's regardless if whether they get £50 or £500 to help support their child(ren)

The problem is far greater than just throwing more and more money at it.
That's how and why the system starts to get exploited

Spot on

[Rowls]

Plasters serve an important function. To stop other things from entering a wound when it is open.

The wound these kids have is huge at the moment. Sticking plaster most definitely needed whilst a long term solution is found (hahaha, as if that’ll happen).

This is true and that's all part of the metaphor. The problem is that is does nothing to fix the underlying cause and can actually exacerbate what is causing the problem.

You carry on with sticking plasters instead of tackling the underlying cause and all you do is store up problems for the future.

I'm also weary about "celebrities" and sports stars fronting and spearheading political campaigns. Has Marcus Rashford got the time to attend briefings on child poverty and formulate complex policies that span multiple social ills such as welfare dependency, joblessness, drug and alcohol dependency, economic stagnation... etc?

[Rowls]

I think food parcels are the only safe way, where pre packed and paid for food can be guaranteed to reach the household, also the food can be monitored to make sure it's a well balanced diet with nutritional foods.

Any underprivileged childs parents currently doing a shop, wont suddenly up the food shop by £15 a child to guarantee a hot meal a day extra over the summer.
More likely is that if they're already struggling a small % if any will go on the child and the rest used for other things.

Lots of people do a strict or regular shop, when extra comes in it may well just be seen as a bonus.
Remember this is for everyone on free school meals, theres lots that fall under that umbrella, many who will get it but not necessarily need it.

If born to sh1tty parents they areway down on their list of priorities, and that's regardless if whether they get £50 or £500 to help support their child(ren)

The problem is far greater than just throwing more and more money at it.
That's how and why the system starts to get exploited

You're clearly speaking from experience MACCA.

I witnessed first hand a number of things that well-read middle class types assured me "never happened" such as the sale of milk vouchers by single mums so that they had cash to purchase drugs rather than milk formula for their babies.

[Rowls]

Assume you would advocate compulsory abortions for women who lose their jobs half way through pregnancy.

What a stupid, offensive and crass assumption.

[Funkydrummer]

If parents want to abuse the system, they will. If they are given food parcels they can just flog them on
and spend the money on "other things" as it's been put.

Not easy to do I suspect, but delete the cost of the school meals from their benefits thus
ensuring that they do get at least one square meal a day and the parents can't "waste" it
on sh!te.

[Pimlico_Claret]

What a stupid, offensive and crass assumption.

You obviously didn't read the stupid, offensive and crass comment that prompted my response.

[MT03ALG]

Mr. Rashford should be able to eat well on £300,000 a week = 20,000 x £15

[MACCA]

You're clearly speaking from experience MACCA.

I witnessed first hand a number of things that well-read middle class types assured me "never happened" such as the sale of milk vouchers by single mums so that they had cash to purchase drugs rather than milk formula for their babies.

Without going into too much details, I've seen and had admitted to me similar stories, shockingly some have been far worse than what you've pointed out.

Obviously extra money can help, but IMO often makes little to no actual difference, sometimes even multiplying the issues or problems that are obviously already there.

[fanzone]

Lets hope you don't lose your job as an English teacher.

Belly laughs

[AlargeClaret]

It does make you wonder what kind of drug/booze ridden household could not afford “ a single child’s meal “ ? For these kids getting a free meal could be huge . As for the full time dole dosser spongers i’m not so sure .

[MACCA]

If parents want to abuse the system, they will. If they are given food parcels they can just flog them on
and spend the money on "other things" as it's been put.

Very difficult to flog pasta, fruit, veg and so on to abuse the money received.

Far easier to do with a £30 tesco voucher where it can be sold on, or anything can be purchased for " a customer" for a shop to order, so can be then sold on for say £15...

Or often best case scenario of small % spent on extra food for the children and the rest on what the parent(s) want.

Remember if these parents are already putting feeding their child as a last priority, that doesnt change just because an extra £15-60 a week gets handed to them.

Extreamely difficult to police, but I'm convinced handing out extra money is the least beneficial thing to do for the cause.

[fatboy47]

The political philosophy that people have bought into, pretty much since 1979 has overseen a seizmic shift in the balance of power and wealth.
Many would rightly claim that this has lead to very successful wealth creation in the UK. Have no doubt-the UK is an incredibly wealthy nation in terms of the size of the cake... Its enormous, but fewer and fewer pigs are muscling to the front row of the trough.
Continuing with unfettered monetarism, and a "devil take the hindmost" ideology is a risky strategy... The smart money is increasingly looking to be on a more Scandinavian model of social democracy.

[aggi]

Absolutely ridiculous decision to extend it over summer. The responsibility for some of these people who have children on benefits is less and less. The kids will suffer even worse when they return to school and the money stops.

Surely the point is when they return to school they'll be getting free school meals.

[fanzone]

Surely the point is when they return to school they'll be getting free school meals.

Agreed, but what will the parents do when the money stops coming in? Anyone who believes all £15 will be spent on the children are deluded.

[mdd2]

I wish we could move away from this need for 3 meals a day nonsense. No more than two and once a week a fast from evening meal to next evening meal will help the health of the nation.
Back to these poor children and for many poor parent(s) and for some feckless parent(s).
Not the fault of the children and they should go to summer school and get lessons and be fed
I am not in favour of them being fed and not educated given how much they have lost and for some they will not have been encouraged or indeed been able to do school work set to be done at home. If it had been possible these children should have been kept at school for education as well as being fed.

[ChrisG]

Mr. Rashford should be able to eat well on £300,000 a week = 20,000 x £15

First, point Rashford grew up in the same poverty he is campaigning against, secondly you don't appear to have taken any taxation into account in your figures...

[fanzone]

First, point Rashford grew up in the same poverty he is campaigning against, secondly you don't appear to have taken any taxation into account in your figures...

1 of 5 children. I wonder where the hardship started

[NewClaret]

He’s noA agreed to fund it. Right thing to do in my opinion. I have strong views on the welfare system and how it works, but feeding kids (providing this additional funding cannot be spent on alcohol or drugs) is absolutely the right thing to do.

Out of interest, media are saying it’s a u turn. Did anyone from government actually publicly say no to this, or was it media speculation?

[AndrewJB]

It’s amazing how creative people can be in terms of coming up with reasons for not wanting to feed children of poor people. I’m astonished that the government even has to think about whether or not to help. It shows the level of heartlessness.

Ultimately the underlying reasons for poverty have to be addressed. Low pay, insecure work, extremely high cost of living, gross inequality, and a hollowed our social system. If anyone actually believes a Tory government will fix these issues, I have some farmland in Antarctica you might want to buy.

[martin_p]

There’s some proper misanthropes on this thread!

[mdd2]

Wherever it started Rashford was not to blame and full marks for him trying to enlighten those of us who did not go hungry as a child and for what he has been doing-a young man who has not forgotten his roots.
As had been pointed out if he is grossing £300k/week even taking into account his tax free pension contributions he should be paying millions in taxation and I would guess without fiddles at least £6million or £120000/week

[ksrclaret]

It’s amazing how creative people can be in terms of coming up with reasons for not wanting to feed children of poor people. I’m astonished that the government even has to think about whether or not to help. It shows the level of heartlessness.

Ultimately the underlying reasons for poverty have to be addressed. Low pay, insecure work, extremely high cost of living, gross inequality, and a hollowed our social system. If anyone actually believes a Tory government will fix these issues, I have some farmland in Antarctica you might want to buy.

The idea that these kids shouldn’t be helped because it isn’t a viable long term solution is breathtaking.

In others words, we haven’t fixed the poverty situation properly so the kids in poverty will have to pay the price for that.

[mdd2]

It’s amazing how creative people can be in terms of coming up with reasons for not wanting to feed children of poor people. I’m astonished that the government even has to think about whether or not to help. It shows the level of heartlessness.

Ultimately the underlying reasons for poverty have to be addressed. Low pay, insecure work, extremely high cost of living, gross inequality, and a hollowed our social system. If anyone actually believes a Tory government will fix these issues, I have some farmland in Antarctica you might want to buy.

There are in my view three kinds of poverty 1) poverty of pocket 2) poverty of body 3) poverty of mind. Many who start in a world of poverty of pocket can grow up and deal with it, if they do not have poverty of mind and much can be done for that with a decent education which should teach about the world in which we live as well as discipline. Poverty of body has much to do with poverty of mind. We are forever being told of post code deaths where across a city average life expectancy can be 10-15 years shorter than average and that we must do something about it. Not everyone in post code doom suffer the catastrophic reductions in life expectancy and moving the population from doom and gloom post code to upmarket post code is unlikely to reverse this discrepancy. So IMO whenever there is spare cash it should be going to the children living under the mantle of parents in poverty especially where the reason for that poverty lies in the poverty of mind which in all probability years of poor education has thrust upon them, although some of course will be in that state no matter what. It is back to the old "feed a child a fish and feed him for a day, teach him to fish and you feed him for life"

[CoolClaret]

All I want to know is the % of those on free dinners that also have luxury items.

If someone can tell me and its significantly low then I'll be on board.

I currently presume that a lot have new phones, cars, always get new clothes etc.

Happy to be wrong though.

[Burnley Ace]

Out of interest, media are saying it’s a u turn. Did anyone from government actually publicly say no to this, or was it media speculation?

I don’t personally think using the phrase “u turn” has been helpful to any government, it’s lead us to a position whereby to change your mind is seen as a weakness and makes politicians more intransigent. This is why we don’t get effective cross party cooperation.

When was the last time you heard any politician say about an opponent “actually that’s a good idea” or “we have considered some more evidence and representations since we announced this proposal and aren’t going to introduce it”.

[Damo]

"Some people may abuse the system" is a pretty rubbish argument against this
People abuse and exploit all sorts of things. Benefits and taxation are two quick examples.
If even a quarter of the kids that will benefit from this eat better or get a meal they may have missed then it's worth every penny

[Devils_Advocate]

Out of interest, media are saying it’s a u turn. Did anyone from government actually publicly say no to this, or was it media speculation?

I think the reference to it being a U-turn is that the govt made a clear statement at the start of the month that they would be stopping over the summer holidays. For the last couple of weeks they have faced calls from the opposition to re-think this policy which they have consistantly rejected. It had gotten to the stage where Labour were going to force a vote on the issue in the HoC this week with a a fair few Tories ready to rebel and vote against the govt

With the govt continuing to strongly stand behind their policy for the last two weeks the U-turn is the sudden reversal of policy because of the medial spotlight raised by Rashfords actions. The U-turn isnt specifically meaning they said no to Rashford and then said yes.

Hope that makes sense

[Damo]

Out of interest, media are saying it’s a u turn. Did anyone from government actually publicly say no to this, or was it media speculation?

The media will try and put a negative spin on anything. Modern journalism is infested with some absolute pond life.
I cant remember the last time I read a newspaper and it's been weeks and weeks since I last watched the news

[quoonbeatz]

Can't imagine being as bitter as some of the people on here. What a life.

[Rowls]

I can't detect a hint of "bitterness", "misanthropy" or "not wanting to feed children" yet several posters are claiming this?

Perhaps platitudes like "feed the children" are easy yet questions like "why are children going hungry in the first place?" are much trickier.

And maybe even those who have the intelligence to ask them more pertinent question might understand that if you ask a complex question you very often require a complex answer. Even then, your response might not be the same as your neighbour despite you both having the same good intentions.

But keep banging the drum, people. Especially if it makes you feel better about yourself. Keep banging the drum.

[ClaretAndJew]

Regardless of why children are going hungry we should feed them. It's not a child's fault they go hungry. Of course things need to be tackled at the "parent" end, but until such a time it is these measures are very much needed.

[CoolClaret]

It's not a child's fault they go hungry. Of course things need to be tackled at the "parent" end, but until such a time it is these measures are very much needed.

Agreed but it will never be tackled.

The bigger the welfare state the more of this that we'll see.

I really cba getting into a big debate again for anyone with an opposing view, so I'll just point you to read some of Thomas Sowell's work.

[fanzone]

I haven't seen a post that says children shouldn't be fed, money needs to stop being poured into people's pockets. That is not the answer.