Villa v Blades

[ClaretTony]

That would have been pretty blatant from the stands, let alone as near as the referee and presumably his assistant were, so I’m not sure I agree with this.

I’m not convinced the referee’s view was entirely obscured and although I’ve not seen his positioning, what about the linesman and his ability to communicate with the referee?

Perhaps more importantly though, the referees performing VAR duties will surely have seen that it should have been a goal - it may not have been a VAR decision - but it would have made perfect sense for the referee to take advice in such an instance.

Failure of one piece of technology is a very poor excuse when there were two officials near by and a secondary system that could have quickly proved conclusively one way or the other.

If rules don’t allow this, that should be looked at to ensure such instances don’t happen again and really, in this day and age the technologies deployed should complement one another and always be able to be viewed by the referee.

There is no way on earth Oliver could have seen whether that had crossed the line or not. Don’t know where the assistant was though.

[Vegas Claret]

That would have been pretty blatant from the stands, let alone as near as the referee and presumably his assistant were, so I’m not sure I agree with this.

I’m not convinced the referee’s view was entirely obscured and although I’ve not seen his positioning, what about the linesman and his ability to communicate with the referee?

Perhaps more importantly though, the referees performing VAR duties will surely have seen that it should have been a goal - it may not have been a VAR decision - but it would have made perfect sense for the referee to take advice in such an instance.

Failure of one piece of technology is a very poor excuse when there were two officials near by and a secondary system that could have quickly proved conclusively one way or the other.

If rules don’t allow this, that should be looked at to ensure such instances don’t happen again and really, in this day and age the technologies deployed should complement one another and always be able to be viewed by the referee.

He only had to look at the reaction of all the players from both sides to realise it was a goal - **** poor from VAR - i'll remind everyone.. "clear and obvious mistake"

[Winstonswhite]

Amazed how good this crowd noise is. Occasionally forgetting the ground is empty!

This audio producer needs a bloody Brit Award tonight. He got them clapping off the stretcher then.

[ElectroClaret]

City 3-0

[DCWat]

There is no way on earth Oliver could have seen whether that had crossed the line or not. Don’t know where the assistant was though.

No way on earth? He may have been slightly obscured but enough to not have a decent enough view!?

[Bordeauxclaret]

He only had to look at the reaction of all the players from both sides to realise it was a goal - **** poor from VAR - i'll remind everyone.. "clear and obvious mistake"

Technology is no good if you have clowns operating it.

[ClaretTony]

No way on earth? He may have been slightly obscured but enough to not have a decent enough view!?

That still confirms there is no way he can give it. The only way he can is if he is on the line and sees it go in. To suggest he can give a goal from that position, and there is no indication there how far he is out, is crazy. He simply cannot give it. As I said, I've no idea where the assistant is, he could have been in a position to give it.

That is 100% NOT a decent view to be able to see whether a ball has crossed the line.

[Dyched]

Why’s everyone blaming VAR? Nobody wanted it in football interfering, it doesn’t, then everyone complains it hasn’t. If it was there to be used incase GLT doesn’t work then fair enough, but it isn’t. The issue is GLT and it’s superb success is to blame. The official relied on the technology. Unfortunately it failed on this occasion.

[martin_p]

That still confirms there is no way he can give it. The only way he can is if he is on the line and sees it go in. To suggest he can give a goal from that position, and there is no indication there how far he is out, is crazy. He simply cannot give it. As I said, I've no idea where the assistant is, he could have been in a position to give it.

That is 100% NOT a decent view to be able to see whether a ball has crossed the line.

No way the ref could have given it but I just can’t work out how all the cameras could be obscured. The TV cameras gave a pretty clear view, maybe the need to say VAR can be used as a back up if the goal line technology hasn’t given a view.

[FactualFrank]

Amazed how good this crowd noise is. Occasionally forgetting the ground is empty!

Agreed.

[Dyched]

No way on earth? He may have been slightly obscured but enough to not have a decent enough view!?

Oliver is 2nd closest to the camera on that photo going of the heights of the players. I’d say he’s around 5/10 yds out the box. If you drew a line from his eyes to where the ball crossed the line, they would have been a congestion of players obscuring his review imo. The ball also went in at a strange height so the torsos of the players would have blocked his view. He couldn’t see past heads/legs. I personally don’t think he saw it go in, the technology failed and the lino (as they don’t) didn’t want to either make a big call, or didn’t see it.

[NewClaret]

This audio producer needs a bloody Brit Award tonight. He got them clapping off the stretcher then.

My Sky packed in during the injury! Amazing.

[ClaretTony]

No way the ref could have given it but I just can’t work out how all the cameras could be obscured. The TV cameras gave a pretty clear view, maybe the need to say VAR can be used as a back up if the goal line technology hasn’t given a view.

Must admit I thought the explanation was Hawkeye making an excuse for the system not working properly as much as anything. I don't know how the system works but the cameras at Burnley are at the back of the Longside upper around in line with the edge of the penalty box.

[tiger76]

Why’s everyone blaming VAR? Nobody wanted it in football interfering, it doesn’t, then everyone complains it hasn’t. If it was there to be used incase GLT doesn’t work then fair enough, but it isn’t. The issue is GLT and it’s superb success is to blame. The official relied on the technology. Unfortunately it failed on this occasion.

Are people blaming VAR, if so i'm VAR can't override the GLT, now this incident may well lead to a change in future, and that might well be a good thing. If the officials didn't see it, or if they're unsure they have to err on the side of caution. Unfortunately for Sheff Utd it went against them, and cost them 2 points.

[Rileybobs]

No way the ref could have given it but I just can’t work out how all the cameras could be obscured. The TV cameras gave a pretty clear view, maybe the need to say VAR can be used as a back up if the goal line technology hasn’t given a view.

If the excuse is true then I suspect the issue is that the ball was so tightly in the goalkeepers grasp that not enough of it was visible to be automatically picked up by the cameras. I presume they’re trained to sense a spherical white object.

[Pimlico_Claret]

So, what happens if Villa avoid relegation by virtue of that one point that shouldn't have been?

[Vegas Claret]

Technology is no good if you have clowns operating it.

exactly

[Stanbill05]

It’s critical they understand whether this was a rogue failure or a standard limitation of goal line technology, especially if refs are no longer interested if their watch doesn’t alarm. I’m surprised this hasn’t been stress tested and limitations already well understood.

And VAR, who would have complained if the video refs had said there was something worth looking at? Apart from Dean Smith. VAR should have the power to interject on things like this if it doesn’t already.

[ClaretTony]

Wilder said: "I think the goalkeeper was in the Holte End when he caught it."

[burnmark]

Wilder said: "I think the goalkeeper was in the Holte End when he caught it."

...and that he’s heard ‘Del Boy has been seen wearing a Hawkeye watch!’ Brought a wry smile this morning when played on SSN.

[martin_p]

If the excuse is true then I suspect the issue is that the ball was so tightly in the goalkeepers grasp that not enough of it was visible to be automatically picked up by the cameras. I presume they’re trained to sense a spherical white object.

I suspect the technology only needs to see part of the ball and can extrapolate the rest. I just find it odd that there were apparently 7 cameras used by the goal line technology around the stands at that end of the ground and none of them had a conclusive picture when I’ve seen 2 tv camera angles that put it beyond doubt. Maybe they should put additional cameras directly next to the tv cameras so they have the same information and the technology doesn’t look so flawed

[NottsClaret]

Fair point from Wilder, he waited 5 minutes at Spurs to find out one of his players was a toenail offside in the build up to a goal but they couldn't take 10 seconds here to see the keeper was in the back of the net.

[martin_p]

Fair point from Wilder, he waited 5 minutes at Spurs to find out one of his players was a toenail offside in the build up to a goal but they couldn't take 10 seconds here to see the keeper was in the back of the net.

It won’t happen unless they change the rules around VAR. As far as I know goal line decisions aren’t within its scope so it can’t check.

[Hibsclaret]

First game back and we have the game decided by incompetence. If Villa stay up by a point...there will be some questions asked by whoever finishes 18th

[ClaretTony]

First game back and we have the game decided by incompetence. If Villa stay up by a point...there will be some questions asked by whoever finishes 18th

Not incompetence. It was a technology problem which has happened for the first ever time. Had the technology not been in use it would still have been no goal given the positions of the officials.

[lakedistrictclaret]

You can't really say Villa got a point they shouldn't have had. If the goal had been given, it might have spurred Villa into a reaction and they could have gone on to win it.

Re the fake crowd noise, I was disappointed not to hear " the referee's a w****r " after the Hawkeye incident.

[Goodclaret]

You can't really say Villa got a point they shouldn't have had. If the goal had been given, it might have spurred Villa into a reaction and they could jave gone on to win it.

Re the fake crowd noise, I was disappointed not to hear " the referee's a w****r " after the Hawkeye incident.

Very true. Also, not one "F**k VAR" chant. Most disappointing and very unrealistic

On a serious note though the only way I'll be watching these games is with the crowd noise on. I tried for two minutes on the other channel and it was awful.

[mdd2]

So, what happens if Villa avoid relegation by virtue of that one point that shouldn't have been?

Nothing

[tiger76]

So, what happens if Villa avoid relegation by virtue of that one point that shouldn't have been?

Villa thank their lucky stars, but whoever's in the bottom 3 what will be will be, we can't change the results retrospectively, even if the tech drops a bo**ock.

You could equally argue what happens if Sheff Utd miss out on a CL spot by a point or two, i'm afraid it's just hard lines.

As i mentioned last night Aguero's goal at the turf last season could have easily had the same outcome, when i think it was Mee who tried to prevent it crossing the line and failed by millimetres, that goal doesn't stand and Liverpool win the league.

What this should lead to is a serious examination of changing the rules on GL incidents, if for whatever reason the GLT fails to work correctly, then the on field ref, or the VAR ref should be able to say, hold on a moment guys and we'll just double check this, they couldn't do that last night as the current laws stand, because VAR can't overrule the GLT, and usually it's not an issue as the tech works, but last night was the expectation that proved the rule, and sadly for the Blades it went against them.

[Hibsclaret]

It is incompetence when they can’t give a goal that is obvious within a minute of it happening. The ref is not to blame but the VAR and more specifically anything stopping VAR getting involved in overturning an obvious error is incompetence. It is one thing bringing VAR in for specific things and not giving them a licence to get involved in obvious goal decisions...so it absolutely incompetence

[NottsClaret]

It won’t happen unless they change the rules around VAR. As far as I know goal line decisions aren’t within its scope so it can’t check.

PGMOL have confirmed that the video ref can check goal line decisions but chose not to because the refs watch didn’t buzz or something.

It does seem officials are reffing on auto pilot now, leaving it all to technology and VAR, to the point they can’t even see that the ball being in the net probably warrants a second look. It’s like a pilot following his faulty readings on a flight as the plane plunges to the ground. Can’t be happening, the technology says it’s all fine.

[martin_p]

PGMOL have confirmed that the video ref can check goal line decisions but chose not to because the refs watch didn’t buzz or something.

It does seem officials are reffing on auto pilot now, leaving it all to technology and VAR, to the point they can’t even see that the ball being in the net probably warrants a second look. It’s like a pilot following his faulty readings on a flight as the plane plunges to the ground. Can’t be happening, the technology says it’s all fine.

Ok, interesting! I thought the VAR official was the able to alert the referee to a potential mistake as well as the referee request a review. Surely that’s what the VAR official should have done.

[Hibsclaret]

Ok, interesting! I thought the VAR official was the able to alert the referee to a potential mistake as well as the referee request a review. Surely that’s what the VAR official should have done.

Exactly

[Hibsclaret]

PGMOL have confirmed that the video ref can check goal line decisions but chose not to

As I said, incompetence....