Think had a mare is an understatement. Crikey.
Burnley plan to take the knee
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
Absolutely not, im aware racists come in all shapes, sizes and colours.
Also I hope that people can be educated so that just because they were once a fool, made a mistake or were naive, they can learn from them and become educated and see it's wrong.
I'm sure theres many a 50+ year old who said, acted or thought some horrible things back in the day they regret and have learnt from.
Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
And to think some believe this message should be left over in America.
We have a sizeable portion here who need to hear it loud and clear.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
It's a bit more complex than that.
This is all very reactionary in a time where people imo are probably at their most fragile mentally.
It's easy to shrug it off but you must ask where it stops?
Or how long till free speech is all but gone? Ideas people don't like/not mainstream rhetoric being deemed as 'hate speech'.
You may laugh but it's a slippery slope.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
A depressingly large number of people outing themselves as racists here today. I am not surprised but it is still depressing. A sad number of people everywhere, not just here, have no understanding of the privilege being white confers on a person. Many white people have hard lives but a hard life is a lot harder if you are not white. Not just in the USA are black people disproportionately affected by police violence, employment discrimination etc. Many white folk simply choose to ignore those truths.
Everything that is happening, Kneeling, Black lives Matter on the shirt, is being done at the request of players. The captains of the Premier league teams have been in contact with each other over the lock down. Ben Mee called Kneeling and the shirts as a great opportunity for us as players to show racism does not belong in society and our game. He called it a great idea which we all believe in and we are all onboard with it massively. That should be the end of the discussion. Ben certainly appeared to be one of the leaders among the captains when Jordan Henderson was leading premier league players while they were being foolishly criticised by the government.
Burnley players are active in the community helping the less fortunate. Even around Burnley a lot of those people are not white. They are mostly working class lads who have worked very hard and know how fortunate they are. They work in a far more racially integrated conditions than most of the rest of us. We all could learn a lot from their acceptance of mates from very divergent backgrounds.
Everything that is happening, Kneeling, Black lives Matter on the shirt, is being done at the request of players. The captains of the Premier league teams have been in contact with each other over the lock down. Ben Mee called Kneeling and the shirts as a great opportunity for us as players to show racism does not belong in society and our game. He called it a great idea which we all believe in and we are all onboard with it massively. That should be the end of the discussion. Ben certainly appeared to be one of the leaders among the captains when Jordan Henderson was leading premier league players while they were being foolishly criticised by the government.
Burnley players are active in the community helping the less fortunate. Even around Burnley a lot of those people are not white. They are mostly working class lads who have worked very hard and know how fortunate they are. They work in a far more racially integrated conditions than most of the rest of us. We all could learn a lot from their acceptance of mates from very divergent backgrounds.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
Happy to not only hear but join in as well.... As long as its not from that organisation.
Sorry but their approach/MO isn't unifying at all.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
Like affirmative action?Yanquiclaret wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:13 pmA sad number of people everywhere, not just here, have no understanding of the privilege being white confers on a person. Many white people have hard lives but a hard life is a lot harder if you are not white. Not just in the USA are black people disproportionately affected by police violence, employment discrimination etc. Many white folk simply choose to ignore those truths.
Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
Absolutely, and just because someone holds a BLM banner doesnt make them not a racist themselves.Yanquiclaret wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:13 pmA depressingly large number of people outing themselves as racists here today. I am not surprised but it is still depressing. A sad number of people everywhere,
Many white people suffer abuse too, think all races suffer racial abuse off a number of various other races.
Extreamely sad.
No ones born a racist, the whole world needs to take responsibility for making a change.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
The use of 'this' is not difficult in the English language. It's an extremely common word and crops up often.
There's a very easy quote function if you truly want me to answer which particular usage of the word 'this' was so difficult for you to work out.
Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
Why do you want to know “where it stops” ?CoolClaret wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:10 pmIt's a bit more complex than that.
This is all very reactionary in a time where people imo are probably at their most fragile mentally.
It's easy to shrug it off but you must ask where it stops?
Or how long till free speech is all but gone? Ideas people don't like/not mainstream rhetoric being deemed as 'hate speech'.
You may laugh but it's a slippery slope.
Is that important to you ?....especially when you seem to believe it’s gone too far already.
If everyone needed to know exactly where it was going to end when they were trying to bring about transformational change in society nothing would ever get done.
It’s the kind of rhetoric used by many people in history who were strongly opposed to giving away any power or influence from those who had it....or more equality, democracy etc
And yep the “free speech being all but gone” is one of the most used pieces of rhetoric and guess what it’s still not happened after all these years people saying it’s under threat or will disappear if we do x or y.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
Of course it's more complex, my statement was a little tongue in cheek. But I've found the amount of outrage on here over the past weeks over various rather trivial incidents very amusing. More so because the people who seem to be getting their knickers in a twist are usually they first to call others snowflakes.CoolClaret wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:10 pmIt's a bit more complex than that.
This is all very reactionary in a time where people imo are probably at their most fragile mentally.
It's easy to shrug it off but you must ask where it stops?
Or how long till free speech is all but gone? Ideas people don't like/not mainstream rhetoric being deemed as 'hate speech'.
You may laugh but it's a slippery slope.
I guess 'it', whatever that might be, stops when racism stops - I don't have a problem with that.
Funny that you mention free speech. This is a thread about footballer players deciding to make a statement on their own free will. This is literally the same as free speech yet you're questioning their actions. Don't you see the hypocrisy?
What you refer to as a slippery slope I see as positive change. The idea of change may concern you, but that is why these backwards views and behaviour still exist in society. If you agree with freedom of speech then you should agree with people's right to stand up (or kneel down) to racism.
Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
If you're going as low your posts tonight, I think you'll be disappointed if it's treasure you're looking for.
I know you like to drop a few and revel in your haul, but there are standards.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
It's hardly free speech knowing that if one player didn't conform they'd be smeared as a racist. That's a 'conform or gone' sort of culture.Rileybobs wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:20 pm
I guess 'it', whatever that might be, stops when racism stops - I don't have a problem with that.
Funny that you mention free speech. This is a thread about footballer players deciding to make a statement on their own free will. This is literally the same as free speech yet you're questioning their actions. Don't you see the hypocrisy?
It doesn't matter a jot what that individual has done up until that point they would be defined by that - is that not concerning? For not wanting to do something that ultimately doesn't really do anything.
It will never end once you give in, it becomes everything gets cancelled that doesn't fit the rhetoric.
There are plenty of black people out there that look at some recent incidents like the coco pops/uncle Ben nonsense & people that are trying to do their thinking for them utterly bamboozled.
Why aren't we hearing any views in the mainstream from any half decent black intellects? Just 'celebrities' and the like..... I wonder what Malcolm X would have to say about all that?
Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
So dispise and despose of the pike, some appreciate everything about them.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Tomorrows a new day.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
Well democracy right now is an 80 seat lead to the Tories with the loonie left doing anything they can to facilitate change!
BLM the group isn't just about ending racism, it's a full political entity, one read of their MO is enough to see that.
Also the rhetoric that you're saying is also very similar to the Bolsheveiks or Puritans....
Doesn't fit our view = destroy
Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
Quite a few like to read or see what isnt there.
There's only so many times you can be in the debate, ask questions whilst also condemning things before you get bored.
I'm not sure what some people want or expect
Ask silly questions, get silly answers
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
I'd be very surprised if any Burnley player, for example, didn't want to 'conform'. Why wouldn't they want to make a gesture that they're united in the fight against racism?CoolClaret wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:26 pmIt's hardly free speech knowing that if one player didn't conform they'd be smeared as a racist. That's a 'conform or gone' sort of culture.
It doesn't matter a jot what that individual has done up until that point they would be defined by that - is that not concerning? For not wanting to do something that ultimately doesn't really do anything.
It will never end once you give in, it becomes everything gets cancelled that doesn't fit the rhetoric.
There are plenty of black people out there that look at some recent incidents like the coco pops/uncle Ben nonsense & people that are trying to do their thinking for them utterly bamboozled.
Why aren't we hearing any views in the mainstream from any half decent black intellects? Just 'celebrities' and the like..... I wonder what Malcolm X would have to say about all that?
Out of interest where do you stand on England players singing the national anthem? Because I can guarantee some of the posters who think that the players are being forced to kneel have berated certain England players in the past for not singing the national anthem.
You're just guessing that people would smear someone who didn't kneel as racist - obviously they would get criticism from some quarters, but they are getting criticised by some for kneeling. That's life. Personally I would be interested to know why they feel so strongly about not showing their solidarity in the fight against racism.
You're last two paragraphs are a bit daft. Obviously some black people may not be in favour of the protests, that's fine, they don't have to join in. But it seems like the overwhelming majority are in favour. And who are you referring to by half decent black intellects? I've seen a good number of black people over various levels of intellect interviewed during this whole episode.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
Put more energy into defending the racism than condemning it, get called a racist.
I haven't done so but I can understand why others might.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
Let's get down on one knee and propose to the Marxist overlord with Black Lives Matter on our shirts, like forced Yank simpletons.
Or just get behind this and stop being sandal wearing fannies.....
https://www.kickitout.org/
Or just get behind this and stop being sandal wearing fannies.....
https://www.kickitout.org/
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
Couldn't give a toss about the national anthem. I don't think it's a unifying message.Rileybobs wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:40 pmI'd be very surprised if any Burnley player, for example, didn't want to 'conform'. Why wouldn't they want to make a gesture that they're united in the fight against racism?
Out of interest where do you stand on England players singing the national anthem? Because I can guarantee some of the posters who think that the players are being forced to kneel have berated certain England players in the past for not singing the national anthem.
You're just guessing that people would smear someone who didn't kneel as racist - obviously they would get criticism from some quarters, but they are getting criticised by some for kneeling. That's life. Personally I would be interested to know why they feel so strongly about not showing their solidarity in the fight against racism.
You're last two paragraphs are a bit daft. Obviously some black people may not be in favour of the protests, that's fine, they don't have to join in. But it seems like the overwhelming majority are in favour. And who are you referring to by half decent black intellects? I've seen a good number of black people over various levels of intellect interviewed during this whole episode.
Imo national anthem should be secular and about the people but that's just me.
Thomas Sowell has some very good work out there - I encourage anyone to listen to his views.
Bed time now enjoy fellas
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
This isn't far off what Warnock said about Stan's tactics.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
The point some people have been trying to make is not that they wouldn’t want to make a gesture but that in this febrile atmosphere they don’t have a choice. As the more fervent supporters have stated if you don’t support it then you are a racist.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
I understand the point some people are trying to make, I just don’t agree with them. What makes you think that some players feel that they don’t have a choice? They don’t have to shake hands with the opposition before the game but they all do (current circumstances excepted).Burnley Ace wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:13 pmThe point some people have been trying to make is not that they wouldn’t want to make a gesture but that in this febrile atmosphere they don’t have a choice. As the more fervent supporters have stated if you don’t support it then you are a racist.
Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
It is daft. It just shows how the players are forced by the media. Imagine if one of them said well actually there are bigger problems and the movement (fad) doesn't really capture them and I'm not comfortable with this silly token gesture as I see through it. It is weak and will not solve the real issues.Rileybobs wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:21 pmI understand the point some people are trying to make, I just don’t agree with them. What makes you think that some players feel that they don’t have a choice? They don’t have to shake hands with the opposition before the game but they all do (current circumstances excepted).
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
I agree. There's as much chance of anybody who doesnt feel like complying opting out as anybody "coming out" - for the same reason.Burnley Ace wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:13 pmThe point some people have been trying to make is not that they wouldn’t want to make a gesture but that in this febrile atmosphere they don’t have a choice. As the more fervent supporters have stated if you don’t support it then you are a racist.
Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
I have absolutely no issue in Burnley players taking the knee if that is what was decided by all the players if that is what they think shows empathy with the Black Lives Matter movement. I am against the vitriol against those that express an alternative view however unpalatable it may be to that person.
Last week there was a Black lives Matter march in Cleethorpes and there was a another bunch opposing them some in Grimsby shirts and singing Grimsby songs being offensive towards them, now The Grimsby Chairman put out the following “We cannot control who wears such shirts and what they say, but we can and we do make it clear to them that they are not welcome at Blundell Park and appropriate action will be taken against them at the stadium.”
If he means bans them from matches or takes ST’s away we are going down a very slippery slope, yes I am all for banning them if they commit an offence in the Stadium but not for committing an offensive act.
Last week there was a Black lives Matter march in Cleethorpes and there was a another bunch opposing them some in Grimsby shirts and singing Grimsby songs being offensive towards them, now The Grimsby Chairman put out the following “We cannot control who wears such shirts and what they say, but we can and we do make it clear to them that they are not welcome at Blundell Park and appropriate action will be taken against them at the stadium.”
If he means bans them from matches or takes ST’s away we are going down a very slippery slope, yes I am all for banning them if they commit an offence in the Stadium but not for committing an offensive act.
Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
It really is impossible to discuss anything if you’re going to be so awkward. If the ‘this’ in your sentence didn’t refer to racism as I initially thought what did it refer to? I really don’t understand why you’re being so difficult about it.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
You're asking me to trawl through my posts on this thread searching for the word "this".
This is one of the daftest thIngs I've ever known on this board. Do you realise that this is one of the most prevalent words in the English language and that its use is normally very, very straight forward and self-explanatory?
If you can give me the quote of which "this" it is which is so puzzling and baffling for you I'll answer you but, no - I am not looking through my posts and writing a detailed explanation in lieu of my pronoun use. This is what pronouns are there for.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
*THIS* is the problem...
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
Just in case, does anyone know the French for soapy t1t w@nk?
Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
This! (and ‘this’ is the second time I’ve quoted this post).
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
Apologies if you've quoted this before, I didn't see it.
This is clearly talking about the whole situation regarding George Floyd. I'd have thought this was obvious.
Why was the use of a pronoun here so intriguing to you?
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
I'll have to get back to you on that one.Bin Ont Turf wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:33 amJust in case, does anyone know the French for soapy t1t w@nk?
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
OK....Bin Ont Turf wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:33 amJust in case, does anyone know the French for soapy t1t w@nk?
According to Google (so take it with a pinch of salt) ...
The French use the phrase "Spanish w@nk" for a t1t w@nk and the adjective for soapy is savoneuse.
So it would be une branlette espagnol savoneuse. But I'd check with a native speaker before assuming this makes any sense whatsoever in French but I reckon they get your drift.
Hope this helps, Rowls x
Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
It wasn’t clear to me as this is very much about more than George Floyd. It may have been the catalyst for the current increased activity from BLM (and more) but to say this is about George Floyd is a fundamental misunderstanding.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
Ahhhh, I've made a very big erreur.
Assuming Google has got the correct words here, it would be une branlette espagnole.
I think the e on the end of that word is important unless you want to be thrusting between a pair of sweaty, hairy moobs.
But whatever floats your boat. Just thought the distinction might be key to some people's enjoyment of said activity.
Assuming Google has got the correct words here, it would be une branlette espagnole.
I think the e on the end of that word is important unless you want to be thrusting between a pair of sweaty, hairy moobs.
But whatever floats your boat. Just thought the distinction might be key to some people's enjoyment of said activity.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
I didn't say it was only about George Floyd. I said it was about the whole situation about George Floyd.
Seems more like a fundamental misunderstanding of the English language (on your part) than a misunderstanding of the situation (on my part).
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
And this(1) is why we use pronouns like this(2) very often in English martin_p - it saves tiresome exchanges like this(3).
1. Refers to my reasoning in the immediate exchanges above.
2. This(i) one is ambiguous - It could refer to the manner in which the word "this"(ii) is used or it could refer to the specific debate about the word "this" which we are having. Fortunately, either option is viable without altering the meaning of the sentence.
3. Refers to the "tiresome exchanges" within the same sentence.
i. Refers to the first use of the word "this" as indicated here by the numeral "(1)".
ii. Refers to the word "this" generally in the context of its everyday use, as referenced by example numer "(2)"
1. Refers to my reasoning in the immediate exchanges above.
2. This(i) one is ambiguous - It could refer to the manner in which the word "this"(ii) is used or it could refer to the specific debate about the word "this" which we are having. Fortunately, either option is viable without altering the meaning of the sentence.
3. Refers to the "tiresome exchanges" within the same sentence.
i. Refers to the first use of the word "this" as indicated here by the numeral "(1)".
ii. Refers to the word "this" generally in the context of its everyday use, as referenced by example numer "(2)"
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
OK, I admit it - I'm bored and I've had a bad day.
But I find it genuinely bizarre why the use of such a common and unremarkable word should have piqued your interest in this manner when we were discussing what is a very serious topic.
Sorry for the level of flippancy, but I honestly don't know why it was so intriguing to you. It was very workaday use of the English language as far I can see.
But I find it genuinely bizarre why the use of such a common and unremarkable word should have piqued your interest in this manner when we were discussing what is a very serious topic.
Sorry for the level of flippancy, but I honestly don't know why it was so intriguing to you. It was very workaday use of the English language as far I can see.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
Unless you believe there are no "half decent black intellects" then you really need to think about the answer to this yourself.CoolClaret wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:26 pmWhy aren't we hearing any views in the mainstream from any half decent black intellects?
Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
Youd be hard pressed to find anyone defending it to be honest.
There is never a situation where it's acceptable, or been accepted.
Some people will have a different opinion of how to go a out expressing it, changing things for the better or making a stand, but like anything its just an opinion, doesnt meant they are right, wrong , for or against.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
How can you say free speech isn't disappearing, even on this board anyone who points out legitimate reasons why they are against taking the knee, they are branded as racist.TVC15 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:19 pmWhy do you want to know “where it stops” ?
Is that important to you ?....especially when you seem to believe it’s gone too far already.
If everyone needed to know exactly where it was going to end when they were trying to bring about transformational change in society nothing would ever get done.
It’s the kind of rhetoric used by many people in history who were strongly opposed to giving away any power or influence from those who had it....or more equality, democracy etc
And yep the “free speech being all but gone” is one of the most used pieces of rhetoric and guess what it’s still not happened after all these years people saying it’s under threat or will disappear if we do x or y.
One of my biggest issues with it, is its so false. Not to all obviously, but in this era where people are desperate to fit in, frightened to stand out, where they have to be SEEN , I think many are just following like sheep. It might look good for the photos in the press, and they can all boast about how virtuous they are on fb, but how many are going to really change their attitude to BAME. Not many at all, but it looks good.
People say that football is a racially integrated workplace, well there are many other factories around the country where there is a strong racial mix. There are areas of the country where factories could be BAME dominant. The more people mix, the less the fraction.
I don't believe we live in a racist society. The problems that Black youths face in inner cities, are much the same problems that white youths face in similar housing estates around the country. Youths always think they are targeted by the Police, mo matter what colour they are, and its so easy to play the race card. If you look at Black youths outside that environment , then I'm sure their education, employment, life goals and achievements, are as good as any white youths.
It isn't the colour of their skin that holds them back, but their attitude and the chip on their shoulders. If you want to help these people then sort out the issues of these inner city ghettos, fight the social issues, and the racism will take care of itself. Taking a knee isn't going to take a knife out of a single kids hand, or stop a dealer poisoning the mind and body of another kid. We have far, far bigger issues than racism. So you need to ask yourself do you want to help these people, or would you rather look virtuous.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
MangetoutBin Ont Turf wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:33 amJust in case, does anyone know the French for soapy t1t w@nk?
Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
That’s not how freedom of speech works. It’s not the freedom to say whatever you want without criticism.Colburn_Claret wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:45 amHow can you say free speech isn't disappearing, even on this board anyone who points out legitimate reasons why they are against taking the knee, they are branded as racist...
In fact, it looks like you want to take away the freedom of speech rights of those who want to brand others racist.
(the rest of your post was nonsense as well, of course)