Burnley plan to take the knee
Burnley plan to take the knee
Burnley captain Ben Mee has stated Burnley players plan to "take the knee" against Manchester City to show support to the Black Lives Matter campaign.
What's your thoughts on this, and do you agree with the politics being brought into football?
My personal opinion is it all seemed very forced, fake and robotic at last nights games.
I watch and attend football for a release and to get away from "the real world" for a while.
The last thing I want is more of the media circus and/or politics shoved in my face, when I'm purposely trying to avoid it.
What's your thoughts on this, and do you agree with the politics being brought into football?
My personal opinion is it all seemed very forced, fake and robotic at last nights games.
I watch and attend football for a release and to get away from "the real world" for a while.
The last thing I want is more of the media circus and/or politics shoved in my face, when I'm purposely trying to avoid it.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
It's a bit brutal all the players going down to the position that guy was killed in.
I'm sure it makes sense to someone?
I'm sure it makes sense to someone?
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
Excellent news that we're doing this.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
Personally thought it was excellent and actually quite moving especially when it was done at Villa and totally unexpected. Had much more of an impact than the text on the back of the shirts
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
Do they have a choice? It seems that your either in or out and the option of standing back and keeping your own counsel has been removed.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
Shows that we aren't the ignorant red-necked trogs grunting in the backwoods that some would choose to portray us as.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
What's political about supporting a campaign that's ultimately about fighting systematic racism and oppression?MACCA wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:33 amBurnley captain Ben Mee has stated Burnley players plan to "take the knee" against Manchester City to show support to the Black Lives Matter campaign.
What's your thoughts on this, and do you agree with the politics being brought into football?
My personal opinion is it all seemed very forced, fake and robotic at last nights games.
I watch and attend football for a release and to get away from "the real world" for a while.
The last thing I want is more of the media circus and/or politics shoved in my face, when I'm purposely trying to avoid it.
Last edited by MiltonKeynesClaret93 on Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
Politics? This isn't politics, this is decent human beings highlighting something that is so horrible and wrong in this world.MACCA wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:33 amBurnley captain Ben Mee has stated Burnley players plan to "take the knee" against Manchester City to show support to the Black Lives Matter campaign.
What's your thoughts on this, and do you agree with the politics being brought into football?
My personal opinion is it all seemed very forced, fake and robotic at last nights games.
I watch and attend football for a release and to get away from "the real world" for a while.
The last thing I want is more of the media circus and/or politics shoved in my face, when I'm purposely trying to avoid it.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
Yes but it's become a bit of a bandwagon were non-compliance would be universally vilified . I feel that the fear of vilification for not taking part is greater than the feelings of the actual cause. As with all these type of things.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
The politics comes in if you have the view that the "Black Lives Matter" campaign is the wrong way to go about it. The Martin Luther King dream of being judged not by the colour of his skin, doesn't appear to be getting any nearer. Depressingly.MiltonKeynesClaret93 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:44 amWhat's political about supporting a campaign that's ultimately about fighting systematic racism and oppression?
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
I have had 2 customers call me today to cancel Sky Sports for this very reason...they were against it and therefor their 'stand' is to cancel their sports package....funny thing is they will still get the package for 31 days so I can bet your bottom dollar they will still watch it lol!
Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
Is it?MiltonKeynesClaret93 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:44 amWhat's political about supporting a campaign that's ultimately about fighting systematic racism and oppression?
Who's the racists?
Why did this campaign start?
Who's the protest aimed at?
I'm seeing racism , violence and law breaking from some of the BLM protesters and campaigners, why would someone support them actions.
Feels like it's very forced, and players being put in a very difficult position.
Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
Same questions to you as I've posted above.ClaretTony wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:48 amPolitics? This isn't politics, this is decent human beings highlighting something that is so horrible and wrong in this world.
Just interested in peoples thoughts.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
So they’re making a stand because they don’t agree with other people making a stand. Quality.ClaretDiver wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:54 amI have had 2 customers call me today to cancel Sky Sports for this very reason...they were against it and therefor their 'stand' is to cancel their sports package....funny thing is they will still get the package for 31 days so I can bet your bottom dollar they will still watch it lol!
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
I doubt anyone is being put in an awkward position unless they are a racist. Why wouldn’t the players want to make a very small gesture to show that they’re united in the fight against racism?MACCA wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:57 amIs it?
Who's the racists?
Why did this campaign start?
Who's the protest aimed at?
I'm seeing racism , violence and law breaking from some of the BLM protesters and campaigners, why would someone support them actions.
Feels like it's very forced, and players being put in a very difficult position.
Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
So the BLM is a fight against racism?
So anyone who doesn't want to take the knee is a racist?
Wow
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
Surely people taking to the knee are not making a stand? ...
Seriously though I have no views either way... its their choice...
Seriously though I have no views either way... its their choice...
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
There are fundamental issues which need highlighting. Some find it easier to shirk responsibilities, for some reason, and merely snipe from the sidelines, others choose to make a stance even if it is symbolic. Others choose not to be fussed either way.
We are going to be watched by millions of viewers in over a hundred countries - it is a very powerful message being spread very widely.
You don't agree with it ? Miss the kick off or don't watch at all.
We are going to be watched by millions of viewers in over a hundred countries - it is a very powerful message being spread very widely.
You don't agree with it ? Miss the kick off or don't watch at all.
Last edited by evensteadiereddie on Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
Nope, its racist if you dont according to some
Exactly why it isnt a choice as you put it IMO.
See the James McClean abuse for when someone doesnt tow the party line.
This would cause way much more global outcry, should someone remain to keep his opinions private.
I'd go as far as death threats
Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
I dont have a problem with it, just looks fake forced and robotic to me.evensteadiereddie wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:06 amThere are fundamental issues which need highlighting. Some find it easier to shirk responsibilities, for some reason, and merely snipe from the sidelines, others choose to make a stance even if it is symbolic. Others choose not to be fussed either way.
We are going to be watched by millions of viewers in over a hundred countries - it is a very powerful message being spread very widely.
You don't agree with it ? Miss the kick off or don't watch at all.
The poppy debate last year on the England shirts caused unrest.
I'm interested to hear the views someone would have should a player decide to remain stood.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
It's a big marketing exercise by the premier league and skysports. I bet the bundesliga are gutted they didn't get to do it first, would have improved their global branding.
BTW I support the Black Lives Matter movement, I'm highly, highly cynical when large multinational (greedy) organisations get involved
BTW I support the Black Lives Matter movement, I'm highly, highly cynical when large multinational (greedy) organisations get involved
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
I think the genie was already out of the bottle with this with the annual poppy shirts. It's a good cause (although has been politicised by some) but I'm not convinced that all the players care that much about it but they feel they have to wear one. Look at the abuse the Irish lad gets for opting not to wear one.
It's the same here, for some players it will be a huge thing whereas for others they'll just be going along with it.
Personally I'm not that fussed by it. It's probably a good thing to keep the debate going, prompt conversations with those (such as children) who have not been following the news, etc. Too often these things just get yet another inquiry and then nothing happens as it fades from most people's consciousness.
It's the same here, for some players it will be a huge thing whereas for others they'll just be going along with it.
Personally I'm not that fussed by it. It's probably a good thing to keep the debate going, prompt conversations with those (such as children) who have not been following the news, etc. Too often these things just get yet another inquiry and then nothing happens as it fades from most people's consciousness.
Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
This is very true, my son asked what they did and what for last night when players took the knee.aggi wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:12 amI think the genie was already out of the bottle with this with the annual poppy shirts. It's a good cause (although has been politicised by some) but I'm not convinced that all the players care that much about it but they feel they have to wear one. Look at the abuse the Irish lad gets for opting not to wear one.
It's the same here, for some players it will be a huge thing whereas for others they'll just be going along with it.
Personally I'm not that fussed by it. It's probably a good thing to keep the debate going, prompt conversations with those (such as children) who have not been following the news, etc. Too often these things just get yet another inquiry and then nothing happens as it fades from most people's consciousness.
It prompted a discussion right there and then.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
It’s obvious that no one really has a choice , can you imagine the uproar if Burnley ( of all clubs ) didn’t “ take the knee” ? The prem league is a huge global revenue earner and when righteous public opinion farts the corporate world duly takes a sh1t.
It looked forced very well practiced ( so much for being a “ total suprise” )Gives the left something to w@nk off if nothing else,oh and Sterlings Gillette ad on almost every ad break who’d of thought it ...
It looked forced very well practiced ( so much for being a “ total suprise” )Gives the left something to w@nk off if nothing else,oh and Sterlings Gillette ad on almost every ad break who’d of thought it ...
Last edited by AlargeClaret on Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
Silly to get involved in American domestic politics like this. Football had previously had a good record of keeping politics out of its arena.
I hope at least one player has the courage to not participate but it would be a brave soul to do that and I doubt anyone has the stomach for it.
I hope at least one player has the courage to not participate but it would be a brave soul to do that and I doubt anyone has the stomach for it.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
It's down to choice, luckily, there won't be many players, if any, not wishing to support a black team mate or opponent.
The James McClean mockrage crops up every year for about five posts on here.
The James McClean mockrage crops up every year for about five posts on here.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
It would be interesting if someone was to vehemently campaign against racism but then fail to support BLM, due to their approach. They after all, just an action group like Extinction Rebellion.
For the same reason, it's interesting that Football would choose to embrace a specific social movement, in BLM, but not address anything in climate change or anti slavery (In FIFA's case they choose to totally ignore it with the Qatar World Cup).
Personally, I'm not bothered either way but, as Macca has pointed out, it does seem to be a bit 'jumping on the bandwagon' to me.
For the same reason, it's interesting that Football would choose to embrace a specific social movement, in BLM, but not address anything in climate change or anti slavery (In FIFA's case they choose to totally ignore it with the Qatar World Cup).
Personally, I'm not bothered either way but, as Macca has pointed out, it does seem to be a bit 'jumping on the bandwagon' to me.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
The cynicism is justified, but the only thing that generates change these days, is when big money gets involved. They stayed out of it in 2014.They are neck deep in it now because it is going to hurt their bottom line. Personally,I think its fantastic. Sports, all sports need to be about the better things in life. Our club do so much right, this is another one of those wonderful moves.padihamclaret wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:12 amIt's a big marketing exercise by the premier league and skysports. I bet the bundesliga are gutted they didn't get to do it first, would have improved their global branding.
BTW I support the Black Lives Matter movement, I'm highly, highly cynical when large multinational (greedy) organisations get involved
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
I think it's a case of choices;
Take the knee and show you support the cause of taking action to fight racism and inequality.
Don't take the knee and be against the cause
Don't take the knee and be complicit in letting it be for others to force change.
Take the knee and show you support the cause of taking action to fight racism and inequality.
Don't take the knee and be against the cause
Don't take the knee and be complicit in letting it be for others to force change.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
I dont like it, it doesn't upset me, I'm all for BLM, but it does smack more of virtue signalling, than providing a positive push for change.
We have a look at me generation, the selfie, Facebook , twitter. The I identify as this that or the other, you all have to accept me.
Too many people in need of comfort, reassurance, acceptance, pampering, call it what you like. They should have been raised to accept themselves, if you like yourself, other peoples opinion doesn't matter.
This open taking the knee, whilst its message is worthwhile, is just a window for these people to show how good they are, rather than convey a message.
I also think it conveys a message that we have a problem, and whilst racism exists, and is abhorrent, this country isn't racist. As others have said we used to react to racism, now we actively seek it, even when it isn't there. That isn't healthy or helpful, and will only lead to division.
We have a look at me generation, the selfie, Facebook , twitter. The I identify as this that or the other, you all have to accept me.
Too many people in need of comfort, reassurance, acceptance, pampering, call it what you like. They should have been raised to accept themselves, if you like yourself, other peoples opinion doesn't matter.
This open taking the knee, whilst its message is worthwhile, is just a window for these people to show how good they are, rather than convey a message.
I also think it conveys a message that we have a problem, and whilst racism exists, and is abhorrent, this country isn't racist. As others have said we used to react to racism, now we actively seek it, even when it isn't there. That isn't healthy or helpful, and will only lead to division.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
Wow, dont label me for asking questions prompting debate.ClaretTony wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:20 amFeels to me like a certain poster prefers racism to someone standing up against it
I'm genuinely interested if those who were quite happy to discuss their opinions last night all over social media,would do the same today on here, or would they feel they couldn't due to possible ridicule or labelling.
Imagine the pressure a footballer would feel thinking he had to do something or there would be a negative backlash towards them and to be labelled a racist.
Exactly what a few have already done on this thread on a smaller scale.
Shame really.
Edit - it could lead to more devide when people cant get away from using colour to describe people.
"White racist cop kills back man"
Why not
"Currupt scumbag of a cop kills man"
What has race, colour or religion etc got to do with it?
By the way the 4 cops charged consist of 2 white males, an Asian and a mixed race officer... are they all racist and is it only to blacks they are racist too?
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
I think that is exactly the point. A lot of people, like you, think that if you do not give unequivocal support to the activities of Black Lives Matter, then you are in favour of racism and inequality.Guppyspotter wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:28 amI think it's a case of choices;
Take the knee and show you support the cause of taking action to fight racism and inequality.
Don't take the knee and be against the cause
Don't take the knee and be complicit in letting it be for others to force change.
Anyone who thinks BLM is going the wrong way about is viewed as National Front, even if they are thoroughly anti-racist but do not think this is the way to go about it.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
How would you go about it?dsr wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:46 amI think that is exactly the point. A lot of people, like you, think that if you do not give unequivocal support to the activities of Black Lives Matter, then you are in favour of racism and inequality.
Anyone who thinks BLM is going the wrong way about is viewed as National Front, even if they are thoroughly anti-racist but do not think this is the way to go about it.
Genuine question.
Some people do not actually see racism in society,so admitting that it is a problem removes you from that group.
But admitting that it is present and doing something about it, are two different things.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
Pathetic.
Free folk don't bend the knee.
Just wondering how many will be also taking the knee come Qatar 2022?
Also - what the hell happened to kick it out?
The very notion that uploading a black square to social media or bending a knee is enough to facilitate change is ******* mind numbingly stupid.
People's perceived images/philosophy matter more than there actual real world actions in the modern day and its sickening.
Free folk don't bend the knee.
Just wondering how many will be also taking the knee come Qatar 2022?
Also - what the hell happened to kick it out?
The very notion that uploading a black square to social media or bending a knee is enough to facilitate change is ******* mind numbingly stupid.
People's perceived images/philosophy matter more than there actual real world actions in the modern day and its sickening.
Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
Don't know. It's a lot easier to see problems in someone else's solutions than it is to create new ones.grapidianclaret wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:53 amHow would you go about it?
Genuine question.
Some people do not actually see racism in society,so admitting that it is a problem removes you from that group.
But admitting that it is present and doing something about it, are two different things.
But I have severe doubts about the current idea (not just BLM's last few weeks, but been going on for a while) of splitting the population into "White British" and "BAME" (or "the rest, we can't be bothered telling you apart" is the impression it gives) and telling one group that they are disadvantaged because of what the other group has done to your ancestors. It's a guaranteed way of producing racial violence between young, aggressive, poor black men and young, aggressive, poor white men.
Basically, I wouldn't put BAME people into a lump as if they are all the same. (I wouldn't put White British into a lump as if they're all the same, either, for that matter.) We ought to be working towards inclusivity where colour of skin matters no more than colour of hair. But that's not the direction BLM appears to aiming in - not short term anyway. Maybe it will change tack and get there as things progress? I don't know.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
The staging of the world cup in Qatar is pathetic. I would happily see England boycott the tournament. For lots of reasons.CoolClaret wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:55 amPathetic.
Free folk don't bend the knee.
Just wondering how many will be also taking the knee come Qatar 2022?
Also - what the hell happened to kick it out?
The very notion that uploading a black square to social media or bending a knee is enough to facilitate change is ******* mind numbingly stupid.
People's perceived images/philosophy matter more than there actual real world actions in the modern day and its sickening.
We can see what peoples philosophies are today. Standing on the sidelines and complaining about proactive measures,some good ,some not so good, isn't doing a whole hell of a lot to change anything is it?
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
Tell me what taking a knee does? Or plastering a name of an organisation that after reading it's manifesto is more political than anything.grapidianclaret wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:01 pmThe staging of the world cup in Qatar is pathetic. I would happily see England boycott the tournament. For lots of reasons.
We can see what peoples philosophies are today. Standing on the sidelines and complaining about proactive measures,some good ,some not so good, isn't doing a whole hell of a lot to change anything is it?
Yes, I too would be happy to boycott Qatar
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
I'm disappointed you see the whole BLM thing as simply an American issue Rowls. I honestly thought you had a bit more upstairs.Rowls wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:15 amSilly to get involved in American domestic politics like this. Football had previously had a good record of keeping politics out of its arena.
I hope at least one player has the courage to not participate but it would be a brave soul to do that and I doubt anyone has the stomach for it.
I'd always expect numpties like MACCA to follow the closet racist agenda, but I'd have hoped others from the near-right might see the bigger picture.
It's debatable whether football has kept politics out of its arena in the past.. I'd argue not. But it's certainly avoided anything radical until now.. or anything that might be remotely seen as a catalyst for real change.....until now..and I suspect that's the issue for many.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
Well done Ben Mee and Burnley FC.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
No one else think that we wait for City to take a knee and then smash the ball into City’s net?
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
I can not say I disagree with most of that.dsr wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:59 amDon't know. It's a lot easier to see problems in someone else's solutions than it is to create new ones.
But I have severe doubts about the current idea (not just BLM's last few weeks, but been going on for a while) of splitting the population into "White British" and "BAME" (or "the rest, we can't be bothered telling you apart" is the impression it gives) and telling one group that they are disadvantaged because of what the other group has done to your ancestors. It's a guaranteed way of producing racial violence between young, aggressive, poor black men and young, aggressive, poor white men.
Basically, I wouldn't put BAME people into a lump as if they are all the same. (I wouldn't put White British into a lump as if they're all the same, either, for that matter.) We ought to be working towards inclusivity where colour of skin matters no more than colour of hair. But that's not the direction BLM appears to aiming in - not short term anyway. Maybe it will change tack and get there as things progress? I don't know.
I have not spent much time in the UK over the last ten years, so I do not have enough solid ground to stand on and say how BAME in Britain feel today. But I do believe, when I lived over there, that they did feel like outsiders in the past. Inclusivity should be the goal, and if both players and fans can demonstrate it, then it is a step in the right direction.A small step but a necessary one.
Here in the states, there is no doubt that we are further behind the UK in inclusivity. Taking a knee created a firestorm out here.It would seem, some people over there have similar objections,some for similar reasons.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
Gary Neville made a great point last nite and was quickly shut down about the racism the Asian community received at the start of covid no massive movement then just accepted and swept away..
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
Nothing stopping someone to stand proud against racism, but now is the time to show ‘your way’ of doing it differently to BLM. There is plenty of room to protest against racism in different ways, but at least come up with an alternative show of solidarity if you find ‘taking a knee’ so problematic.
Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
If asking for opinions, bringing it to discussions and gauging various opinions means you're a racist numpty, imagine what that would make you for even thinking it never mind doing it.
We would be forced to fold as a football club.
And you should be imprisoned for even joking about it!
This user liked this post: Foulthrow
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
'The official #BlackLivesMatter Global Network builds power to bring justice, healing, and freedom to Black people across the globe.'
So, yes.
I didn't say anyone who doesn't want to take the knee is racist did i? Don't misquote me. I said I doubt anyone is being put in an awkward position unless they are a racist.
So basically, if my club captain asked me if I would make a gesture to show that as a team we were united in the fight against racism and inequality, why would I be put in an awkward position if I wasn't a racist? Why would I not want to show that I am against racism and inequality in a unified 5 second gesture?
I doubt there's anything other than a tiny minority of footballers who would have an issue with this. After all, they are young and probably open-minded people who have been brought up living and working among people of different cultures and almost certainly encountered racism at some point in their every day lives.
If someone feels strongly enough that they don't want to show their support to this cause then they should have the courage of their convictions and not do it - like James McClean.
Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
People have come to their own view about what has disadvantaged the BAME community, I’m not sure they needed to be told. Yours seems to be a ‘don’t mention the war’ approach. The first step in any healing journey is acceptance of responsibility that wrong has been committed surely?dsr wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:59 amDon't know. It's a lot easier to see problems in someone else's solutions than it is to create new ones.
But I have severe doubts about the current idea (not just BLM's last few weeks, but been going on for a while) of splitting the population into "White British" and "BAME" (or "the rest, we can't be bothered telling you apart" is the impression it gives) and telling one group that they are disadvantaged because of what the other group has done to your ancestors. It's a guaranteed way of producing racial violence between young, aggressive, poor black men and young, aggressive, poor white men.
Basically, I wouldn't put BAME people into a lump as if they are all the same. (I wouldn't put White British into a lump as if they're all the same, either, for that matter.) We ought to be working towards inclusivity where colour of skin matters no more than colour of hair. But that's not the direction BLM appears to aiming in - not short term anyway. Maybe it will change tack and get there as things progress? I don't know.
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Re: Burnley plan to take the knee
Taking a knee over there is different to taking a knee in the US. Imagine playing God save the queen at every game in the premier league. Taking the knee has become a world wide show of solidarity. solidarity does change things. BLM has to be a political organization. Without political representation, change is not possible. White people, good white people fought and died for civil rights in America.They had political representation, the blacks did not.They still do not have adequate representation.Historically, all the significant political changes,made on behalf of BAME in most of the white governed world, have been made with significant action from white people, Wilberforce being a prime example.CoolClaret wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:05 pmTell me what taking a knee does? Or plastering a name of an organisation that after reading it's manifesto is more political than anything.
Yes, I too would be happy to boycott Qatar