Injuries hit Clarets for opener

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:33 pm

I’m going to break a habit now and say I’m not keen on us being in Europe next season due to the risk of Covid (airports, hotels etc) affecting the squad and ruling players out of Premier League games. Plus the fans wouldn’t be likely to go and watch either.

I’m also going to break another habit and defend Garlick for his penny pinching. We don’t know yet if we will reenter lockdown, and the broadcasters have a legitimate grievance. Clubs may go bust. Now isn’t the time to be spending money. If I was a player I’d be grabbing a contract offer with both hands, this could be the bubble bursting, but it would not surprise me if offers were scarce.

Factor all that in, and I suspect our last 9 games will be half hearted, even with prize money at stake. Dyche is too clever not to know all this, and he isn’t picking a good time to be sending “messages” through the media, it isn’t a good look when fans aren’t able to go to matches and many, unlike him, have no income due to Covid. Manager and players should be going all out to cheer us all up.

rob63 · Post by **rob63** » Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:22 pm

claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:46 am
He could have both feet in the door, he could have signed for them in January, both him and Celtic could have announced it and nobody would have done any wrong. Why has he not signed this deal he has agreed ?

Correct, any player in the last 6 months of their contract can reach agreement with a new club for their next contract. It smacks of trying to see who offers the best package for Jeff & taking it to the wire, with BFC as a back up, just in case, But maybe the initial offer to him has been downgraded in the light of Covid, this could be irking SD especially if MG has indicated a rethink or pause on contract terms for other players till he knows our income streams for next season.

Jakubs Tash · Post by **Jakubs Tash** » Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:38 pm

rob63 wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:22 pm
Correct, any player in the last 6 months of their contract can reach agreement with a new club for their next contract. It smacks of trying to see who offers the best package for Jeff & taking it to the wire, with BFC as a back up, just in case, But maybe the initial offer to him has been downgraded in the light of Covid, this could be irking SD especially if MG has indicated a rethink or pause on contract terms for other players till he knows our income streams for next season.

Only internationally. You cannot agree a pre-contract with a domestic club.

AfloatinClaret · Post by **AfloatinClaret** » Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:42 pm

rob63 wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:22 pm
...smacks of trying to see who offers the best package for Jeff & taking it to the wire, with BFC as a back up, just in case, But maybe the initial offer to him has been downgraded in the light of Covid...

If you're a professional footballer, at whatever level, this is a very bad summer to be out of contract; I suspect that many who spurned 'unacceptable' offers back in January are probably now thinking that in hindsight they look a whole lot better.

rob63 · Post by **rob63** » Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:05 pm

Jakubs Tash wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:38 pm
Only internationally. You cannot agree a pre-contract with a domestic club.

Yes but last time i checked Roma, Milan & Celtic didn't play in the English leagues

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:13 pm

rob63 wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:22 pm
Correct, any player in the last 6 months of their contract can reach agreement with a new club for their next contract. It smacks of trying to see who offers the best package for Jeff & taking it to the wire, with BFC as a back up, just in case, But maybe the initial offer to him has been downgraded in the light of Covid, this could be irking SD especially if MG has indicated a rethink or pause on contract terms for other players till he knows our income streams for next season.

And this is the massive problem facing Mike Garlick and one which Sean Dyche will have to come to understand. Garlick doesn't even know the Income levels for this season never mind next season. Ten weeks ago he was priming everyone for the season being curtailed at the beginning of April and Burnley completely running out of money by August.

Next season is financially a long way away and the Board will need to be ultra careful with ANY contract negotiations in the meantime.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:39 pm

Certain footballers, managers and their agents are so thick that they assume that if they shout and scream enough the world will still owe them a living .They are in for a rude awakening . Roof overhead, food for family, utility bills etc etc will be the priority for us all, players and managers dreams and egos bottom of pile for most.

NewClaret · Post by **NewClaret** » Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:53 pm

AfloatinClaret wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:42 pm
If you're a professional footballer, at whatever level, this is a very bad summer to be out of contract; I suspect that many who spurned 'unacceptable' offers back in January are probably now thinking that in hindsight they look a whole lot better.

Totally agree. Tbf to MG, maybe he knows this and is calling a few agents bluff, but it’s a risky business given the depth of our squad and the remaining games we have to play.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:42 am

absolute perfect opportunity to give Brownhill a run and anyone of the U23's they think could be knocking on the door, we won't be splashing the cash in summer so it might be worth seeing what we have coming through the ranks. As long as we stay up I'm not arsed

Also, pretty clear most of you don't watch many Dyche interviews - he has had a pop at the board loads of times before and it's always along the lines of him saying he doesn't know the situation - happens every transfer window. Saddened to read CT's comments about the relationship between the Chairman and Dyche not being good though

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:59 am

There are two sides to this, and we inevitably hear more from Dyche because press conferences give him a platform.

It wouldn't be a surprise if the manager /chairman relationship was fraying. By the time next season kicks off, he will have been at Burnley nearly 8 years. That's longer than anyone since Harry Potts and given the nature of our tightrope act that is keeping Burnley competitive at this level, there will have been clashes. That will have been exacerbated by the fact that Dyche is so fastidious about what players he will sign, whilst Garlick is equally fastidious about what he will pay. That has made recruitment tortuous for both in the last couple of seasons.

As for these contracts, it's a bit of a microcosm. Hendrick we know has been offered a longer deal before - he just hasn't signed it. The other 4 frankly most people would have expected to see released this summer and in any event it's never as simple as "just" offering a contact. Dyche may well have wanted to tie Bardsley down longer - but he might want a 2 year deal where we (Garlick) might only be willing to grant one. That's the sort of dilemma that exists at any club.

And the truth is this dilemmas get more acute the closer you get to the end of a manager's natural cycle. Dyche is quite understandably looking at an extremely short horizon. Garlick cant afford to be so short-term. He had to look at both the long term financial consequences- particularly given everything else that is going on- and the continuity of the club. Sooner rather than later Dyche is going to leave and Garlick has to have an eye on ensuring the rebuilding job hasn't been made more difficult by short termism to suit the current manager now.

If this is what's going on, then perhaps it's no great surprise, and not necessarily anyone's fault.

Jakubs Tash · Post by **Jakubs Tash** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:10 am

rob63 wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:05 pm
Yes but last time i checked Roma, Milan & Celtic didn't play in the English leagues

This is correct but you weren't very clear that meant international teams in your original post. This is something that many people get wrong so I was just helping to give clarity.

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:30 am

AfloatinClaret wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:42 pm
If you're a professional footballer, at whatever level, this is a very bad summer to be out of contract; I suspect that many who spurned 'unacceptable' offers back in January are probably now thinking that in hindsight they look a whole lot better.

Or the other way, clubs might have the money to go after their summer targets so will go after out of contract players instead. In Jeffs case he will probably attract the kind of clubs who ain’t gonna have huge transfer budgets in terms of fees. It could work out in his favour.

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:38 am

One thing we must do, despite how much we may like and respect Dyche is to back Garlick. We saw when Coyle left the club was torn apart and the fans never for a second gave Laws a chance. Partly down to a bad appointment but you have to back the manager. We gave Dyche time when things looked pretty bleak for a while.

Personally I’d go for Big Sam. Fans won’t like whoever takes over and will give them dogs abuse. We might as well have a guy that will stand there and take it whilst keeping us up. He’d also talk back a bit as well which some fans will need.

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:44 am

He doesn’t seem happy!

Is this the beginning of the end?

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:45 am

Comments....what comments ?

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:46 am

The ones widely reported in the local media.

Jakubs Tash · Post by **Jakubs Tash** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:50 am

Allardyce wouldn't go to a club that doesn't have money to spend.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:50 am

Can we not merge this with the other one.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:53 am

This is a censored issue on here!

Despite it being a national press conference and available to watch on the club channel, the obvious manager disquiet, with his chairman, is no go on here. A very good debate was eliminated after many posts.

Consensus being that unless the chairman gets himself out of the contract hole, Mr D will be walking come season's end....having personally reflected, in the covid lockdown.

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:56 am

Sorry didn’t know there were other threads.

I can’t see anything. Have they been deleted?

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:57 am

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=47814

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:00 am

That's not the one!

Burnley87 · Post by **Burnley87** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:02 am

My Guess if he does leave and Cheltenham get promoted he will offer the job to Micheal Duff.

They will look at it as someone who knows the club and will continue in similar vein

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:02 am

Now that more of us are backing the Club for being cautious at least until the end of this season, maybe the people asking for deletion have acted in haste?

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:18 am

Jakubs Tash wrote: ↑
Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:50 am
Allardyce wouldn't go to a club that doesn't have money to spend.

Probably not. Far from everyones cup of tea anyway. I just think. Given what the atmosphere will be like, he’s one man who would love it and he’d get wins to rub it in that he’s doing a good job, kinda way. If that makes sense. Most managers would cripple.

I’d take Duff if we were mid table Championship, but not mid table PL. I’d wait personally until after the next man goes.

kaptin1 · Post by **kaptin1** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:19 am

Dyche will end up at Villa when they sack Dean Smith. Even if they get relegated that job may be tempting, given the club now has decent financial backing and should make a swift return back to the Premier League. Dyche would back himself to get them promoted having already done it twice with us. If Dyche goes then I think next year will be our last in the top flight.

mdd2 · Post by **mdd2** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:23 am

kaptin1 wrote: ↑
Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:19 am
Dyche will end up at Villa when they sack Dean Smith. Even if they get relegated that job may be tempting, given the club now has decent financial backing and should make a swift return back to the Premier League. Dyche would back himself to get them promoted having already done it twice with us. If Dyche goes then I think next year will be our last in the top flight.

Cannot disagree with that provided 39 points will be enough this season. With all that public airing I just worry about the team spirit now as well as the "home" advantage with an empty Turf.

JohnDearyMe · Post by **JohnDearyMe** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:34 am

Will be interesting to see how clubs outside the Champions League regulars approach their transfer and contract business this summer and how their approach differs or is the same as ours

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:37 am

kaptin1 wrote: ↑
Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:19 am
Dyche will end up at Villa when they sack Dean Smith. Even if they get relegated that job may be tempting, given the club now has decent financial backing and should make a swift return back to the Premier League. Dyche would back himself to get them promoted having already done it twice with us. If Dyche goes then I think next year will be our last in the top flight.

I suspect if Dyche goes to Villa he'll be expected to get promotion immediately. Otherwise he'll be applying for the sames jobs as David Moyes, Tony Pulis, Big Sam, Mark Hughes, Nigel Pearson, etc., etc.,

Ilkley claret · Post by **Ilkley claret** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:40 am

Possibly this halcyon era of Dyche is coming to an end.

Clarets version of “The last dance”

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:41 am

claretspice wrote: ↑
Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:59 am
There are two sides to this, and we inevitably hear more from Dyche because press conferences give him a platform.

It wouldn't be a surprise if the manager /chairman relationship was fraying. By the time next season kicks off, he will have been at Burnley nearly 8 years. That's longer than anyone since Harry Potts and given the nature of our tightrope act that is keeping Burnley competitive at this level, there will have been clashes. That will have been exacerbated by the fact that Dyche is so fastidious about what players he will sign, whilst Garlick is equally fastidious about what he will pay. That has made recruitment tortuous for both in the last couple of seasons.

As for these contracts, it's a bit of a microcosm. Hendrick we know has been offered a longer deal before - he just hasn't signed it. The other 4 frankly most people would have expected to see released this summer and in any event it's never as simple as "just" offering a contact. Dyche may well have wanted to tie Bardsley down longer - but he might want a 2 year deal where we (Garlick) might only be willing to grant one. That's the sort of dilemma that exists at any club.

And the truth is this dilemmas get more acute the closer you get to the end of a manager's natural cycle. Dyche is quite understandably looking at an extremely short horizon. Garlick cant afford to be so short-term. He had to look at both the long term financial consequences- particularly given everything else that is going on- and the continuity of the club. Sooner rather than later Dyche is going to leave and Garlick has to have an eye on ensuring the rebuilding job hasn't been made more difficult by short termism to suit the current manager now.

If this is what's going on, then perhaps it's no great surprise, and not necessarily anyone's fault.

Reminds me a bit of Fergie's last year or two at United. He'd stopped thinking about the future, all he was interested in was winning the title back before he retired. Moves like bringing Paul Scholes out of retirement for 6 months which meant the midfield problem just got passed onto the next manager coming in.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:42 am

Ilkley claret wrote: ↑
Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:40 am
Possibly this halcyon era of Dyche is coming to an end.

Clarets version of “The last dance”

I've been thinking that for a while but it has built up even more recently. Really do hope I'm wrong though.

mdd2 · Post by **mdd2** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:49 am

You need to have this ready (posted elsewhere)
Sean Dyche October 2012-July 2020 or maybe August 2020!!!!

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:52 am

Dyche should be able to live of this success for the rest of his managerial career getting decent Championship jobs and the odd Premier League job here and there but I doubt he'll do owt special ever again

When all is said and done his career will probably rank alongside people like Bruce and Hughton which is pretty respectable for lower division lump of a defender

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:55 am

If Dyche does leave at least the board has a good track record of appointing managers who can get clubs promoted to the Prem. Three out of the last four managers.

Coyle - Burnley
Howe - Bournemouth
Dyche - Burnley

How many other clubs can boast about such a good recruitment record?

Swizzlestick · Post by **Swizzlestick** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:59 am

He’d be insane to leave now. The amount of uncertainty everywhere is unprecedented and when you look at viable clubs he can go to, the list is limited to say the least. Villa maybe most likely but their lot were gassing on about how much of a dinosaur Dyche is. Plus, their ownership would probably want more of a ‘glamour’ name. I think he’s just sounding off and, while frustrated, he’d do well to stick around in a job of stability where he is rewarded handsomely.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:07 am

Maybe the board know he is going and want to save money for a new manager who might not fancy having older players on rushed longer contracts . Remember one of Garlicks businesses is recruitment, he's no mug in that department.

Aclaret · Post by **Aclaret** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:14 am

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:42 am
I've been thinking that for a while but it has built up even more recently. Really do hope I'm wrong though.

It must come to a head eventually if indeed things are building up. The chairman isnt saying much about the situation, you may say he's within his rights not too but it would be good to know what's going on.
Hopefully a story about nothing.

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:16 am

We'll lose a lot more than just the manager if he goes. It'll be a big rebuilding job with likely an entirely new management team. The important thing would be to look long term.

mdd2 · Post by **mdd2** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:44 am

quoonbeatz wrote: ↑
Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:16 am
We'll lose a lot more than just the manager if he goes. It'll be a big rebuilding job with likely an entirely new management team. The important thing would be to look long term.

I think the biggest problem could be the dressing room which was a problem for Laws and to a lesser extent for Howe whose job it was to see the back of many of OC's players. This may be the same when SD goes more so if he goes with the players feeling he was treated harshly, however in reality the parting of minds was

huw.Y.WattfromWare · Post by **huw.Y.WattfromWare** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:19 pm

This mornings D Mail lining us up Lowton behind Brownhill on Monday. Are they guessing or have they had the nod.

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:40 pm

huw.Y.WattfromWare wrote: ↑
Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:19 pm
This mornings D Mail lining us up Lowton behind Brownhill on Monday. Are they guessing or have they had the nod.

If neither Bardsley nor Hendrick have been offered acceptable terms and know they'll be off on 1st July, you can't blame them for not wanting to play really. They simply can't afford an injury that could jeopardise a contract elsewhere.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:03 pm

quoonbeatz wrote: ↑
Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:16 am
We'll lose a lot more than just the manager if he goes. It'll be a big rebuilding job with likely an entirely new management team. The important thing would be to look long term.

If Sean does go, then the last name on my list would be Allardyce, he'd bankrupt the club within a year, and then disappear into the ether, leaving us with an even bigger rebuilding job.

We need to think long-term i agree, the problem is that when Coyle, Howe, and latterly Dyche were appointed, we were a mid-table Championship club, and now given all the success we've enjoyed in the last few years, the expectations rightly or wrongly have increased, whoever follows Sean has got a tough ask on their hands.

That's possibly why the likes of Alexander, Barton, Duff, McGreal are being touted as natural successors to Sean, i wouldn't be against one of that quartet being handed the reins in time, but ideally 2-3 years down the line, when they've all cut their teeth in the lower leagues first.

It does highlight how much of a blow it would be losing SD, there's not an obvious replacement waiting in the wings, plus your probably correct that the rest of the management team would follow the main man, that's pretty standard in this day and age.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:17 pm

One thing no-one seems to have factored in is the salary SD is currently on. He's supposed to one of the better paid managers in the Prem and in case anyone hadn't noticed, there is going to less money in the game in the coming months. TV rights won't be as lucrative and as such any player and manager won't be able to negotiate better deals.

As such, even Dyche certainly won't be offered a better deal elsewhere in the coming months.

Swizzlestick · Post by **Swizzlestick** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:24 pm

Spijed wrote: ↑
Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:17 pm
One thing no-one seems to have factored in is the salary SD is currently on. He's supposed to one of the better paid managers in the Prem and in case anyone hadn't noticed, there is going to less money in the game in the coming months. TV rights won't be as lucrative and as such any player and manager won't be able to negotiate better deals.

As such, even Dyche certainly won't be offered a better deal elsewhere in the coming months.

Yep, mentioned his salary above. It’s significant and another reason I think this is a whole load of hot air.

Murger · Post by **Murger** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:27 pm

tiger76 wrote: ↑
Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:03 pm
If Sean does go, then the last name on my list would be Allardyce, he'd bankrupt the club within a year, and then disappear into the ether, leaving us with an even bigger rebuilding job.

We need to think long-term i agree, the problem is that when Coyle, Howe, and latterly Dyche were appointed, we were a mid-table Championship club, and now given all the success we've enjoyed in the last few years, the expectations rightly or wrongly have increased, whoever follows Sean has got a tough ask on their hands.

That's possibly why the likes of Alexander, Barton, Duff, McGreal are being touted as natural successors to Sean, i wouldn't be against one of that quartet being handed the reins in time, but ideally 2-3 years down the line, when they've all cut their teeth in the lower leagues first.

It does highlight how much of a blow it would be losing SD, there's not an obvious replacement waiting in the wings, plus your probably correct that the rest of the management team would follow the main man, that's pretty standard in this day and age.

Neither of the managers you have mentioned warrant even an interview. Done nothing to deserve a shot at a Premier League job.

SkiptonClaret · Post by **SkiptonClaret** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:45 pm

Cannot blame Garlick one little bit for being entirely reticent in giving contracts to the 5 players that have been referenced. Ok Hendrick is borderline, Bardsley has done ok but how old is the bloke ? One year absolute maximum. The other three ? Wow. Fortunately looks like Lennon is out of the door, fingers crossed that Hart isn’t far behind him. Legendz (?) I’d offer to give the bloke a lift myself, but fear I wouldn’t recognise him.
The fact that Brady has managed to get an extension is incredulous- he’s laughing at us (literally most of the time in his case).

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:49 pm

If those out of contract do not volunteer to play, we have 15 players available, including 2 keepers, with matches, thick and fast.

...and we are premier league!

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:51 pm

I watched Sean Dyche presser earlier today. I didn't think he looked well. Maybe just the emotions of 3 months break and then coming back to do his job and coming up with an issue he'd not expected. He's always known about the players' contracts and when those contracts end. Maybe he'd not thought about the risk that one or two players would be unwilling to sign a one month extension. Maybe he'd just had a conversation with Mike Garlick - who will be worrying about the club's finances post-covid-19 - and MG had told him that the club was happy to pay the same wage for the extra month beyond the end of contracts, but couldn't afford to pay any more. Maybe SD had been speaking with some of the ooc players and learnt that (some of) they were not going to sign extensions because 6 games in 22 days (5th to 26th July) was too big a risk of injury and so would want a lot more than their usual monthly wage. Alongside this, SD would have been spending his time thinking how to set up the team/squad for the last 9 games and give it a real push to get into Europe - and then he's just learnt that a number of the squad will not be there for those 9 games.

Give Sean Dyche a few hours to reflect and he will decide that he is ok to take on the challenge again. Yes, he'd like to be in a job where the resources are more plentiful than at Turf Moor, but those types of jobs also come with the risk that the manager/coach is expendable if they aren't delivering "trophies."

UTC

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:00 pm

NewClaret wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:53 pm
Totally agree. Tbf to MG, maybe he knows this and is calling a few agents bluff, but it’s a risky business given the depth of our squad and the remaining games we have to play.

There’s no risk attached at all in terms of whether this could have negative implications in deciding our PL status which is all but guaranteed albeit not mathematically, you’ve got all the breathing space you need in terms of deciding what to do with whom, it’s a simple case of going through the motions & assessing what’s what at the end, it’s actually advantageous letting people walk who you don’t want or who are reluctant to stop on & renew, you then know exactly what you need & who to replace accordingly.