Injuries hit Clarets for opener

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by jrgbfc » Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:25 pm

It would be interesting to see how much Legzdins has been paid this last few years. Personally I still think the signing was completely bizarre, seeing as he wasn't trusted to play even in an emergency.

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by tiger76 » Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:28 pm

Murger wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:27 pm
Neither of the managers you have mentioned warrant even an interview. Done nothing to deserve a shot at a Premier League job.
Hence why i stated they'd be considered in time, if they showed progression, but no i agree none of them should be getting a gig at TM in the immediate future. And certainly not well we're a PL club, that'd smack of a Brian Laws type appointment due to their previous links with BFC, and we all know how that turned out.

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by AfloatinClaret » Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:31 pm

As Jakunclaret states, we aren't going down this season, so should we lose the services of our out of contract players at worst that might perhaps cost us an additional place or too in the league ttable, but a chunk of what we lose in prize-money will be offset by not paying said players, plus it's rumoured that the overwhelming majority of Premiership prize-money gets passed on to the players in bonuses. If true, the majority of this 'loss' will be carried by the players not the club itself. More positively, we get 9 pressureless (is that a word?) games to 'blood' some of the under-23 players, some/all might well prove to be out of their depth, but it gives them the experience and one or more might just come of age and we discover a hidden gem.
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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by tiger76 » Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:44 pm

AfloatinClaret wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:31 pm
As Jakunclaret states, we aren't going down this season, so should we lose the services of our out of contract players at worst that might perhaps cost us an additional place or too in the league ttable, but a chunk of what we lose in prize-money will be offset by not paying said players, plus it's rumoured that the overwhelming majority of Premiership prize-money gets passed on to the players in bonuses. If true, the majority of this 'loss' will be carried by the players not the club itself. More positively, we get 9 pressureless (is that a word?) games to 'blood' some of the under-23 players, some/all might well prove to be out of their depth, but it gives them the experience and one or more might just come of age and we discover a hidden gem.
I admire your positive slant on this, and yes i agree we won't go down, so why not have a look at some youngsters, and introduce Brownhill as well as getting badly needed minutes for Brady, the youngsters could sink or stream, but if we don't give them a go we'll never know.

And this is the perfect time to do it, behind closed doors PL games won't be that different to playing in an under-23 match, and even just getting them attuned to the match day build-up can only be beneficial in the long-term.

I'm no expert on bonuses, but i suspect you'll be roughly correct that any prize monies would be paid out in bonuses anyway, so we'll probably break even on that score at worst, and yes if we can save a few quid into the bargain, to maybe put towards our summer kitty all the better.

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by joey13 » Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:50 pm

Spijed wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:55 am
If Dyche does leave at least the board has a good track record of appointing managers who can get clubs promoted to the Prem. Three out of the last four managers.

Coyle - Burnley
Howe - Bournemouth
Dyche - Burnley

How many other clubs can boast about such a good recruitment record?
You conveniently left out Laws

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by IanMcL » Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:18 pm

Mr Dyche:

He says he warned chairman Mike Garlick of potential problems 18 months ago. 

'These situations didn't need to occur but they have occurred,' he added.  

'That is something the chairman and the board must learn from. 

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by Hipper » Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:41 pm

Ilkley claret wrote: Possibly this halcyon era of Dyche is coming to an end.
ClaretTony wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:42 am
I've been thinking that for a while but it has built up even more recently. Really do hope I'm wrong though.
What apart from these recent comments by Dyche leads you to say this?

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by ClaretTony » Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:08 pm

Hipper wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:41 pm
What apart from these recent comments by Dyche leads you to say this?
It's not just recent - he's been making comments about the lack of movement on contracts for some time and also comments during the last two windows, something we have never heard from him before when he has very much been in agreement with the club.
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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by joey13 » Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:23 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:08 pm
It's not just recent - he's been making comments about the lack of movement on contracts for some time and also comments during the last two windows, something we have never heard from him before when he has very much been in agreement with the club.
Which leads me to think he’s on his way at the end of the season :(

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by ClaretTony » Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:24 pm

joey13 wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:23 pm
Which leads me to think he’s on his way at the end of the season :(
That's all I said, but it is no more than a hunch given his willingness to criticise the chairman, something he's never done until the last year or so.

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by huw.Y.WattfromWare » Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:28 pm

Until now the Chairman has been correct. A seventh place finish, a good second half to last season(following Europe) and currently top half.
The 5 OOCs are not the problem. The problems start if next years OOCs decide to hang around without signing. We want no more Danny Ings situation. It should be extend or go. Then you are looking at a major rebuild, with nothing guaranteed.

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by Chester Perry » Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:43 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:44 pm
I admire your positive slant on this, and yes i agree we won't go down, so why not have a look at some youngsters, and introduce Brownhill as well as getting badly needed minutes for Brady, the youngsters could sink or stream, but if we don't give them a go we'll never know.

And this is the perfect time to do it, behind closed doors PL games won't be that different to playing in an under-23 match, and even just getting them attuned to the match day build-up can only be beneficial in the long-term.

I'm no expert on bonuses, but i suspect you'll be roughly correct that any prize monies would be paid out in bonuses anyway, so we'll probably break even on that score at worst, and yes if we can save a few quid into the bargain, to maybe put towards our summer kitty all the better.
The premise that bonuses were solely determined by the prize money pot was demolished in the last accounts - what we do not know is if the bonus pot is constrained by TV income, or just triggered by staying in the Premier League - if it is the latter then the need to save funds while meeting the circa £90m wage bill goes a long way to explaining the board's desire to preserve funds.

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by Hipper » Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:48 pm

Ben Mee was in such a situation wasn't he. If I recall correctly he ran down his contract and by summer 2018 he was looking to leave. We bought in Ben Gibson but Mee stayed and signed a new deal. Gibson understandably seems to have got frustrated waiting and he's now out of things although where that ends up is anybody's guess.

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by mdd2 » Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:25 pm

Gibson could end up playing for us under new management

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by Aclaret » Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:44 pm

mdd2 wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:25 pm
Gibson could end up playing for us under new management
Indeed he could...when either Tarks or Mee or both move on with the Boss.

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:57 pm

mdd2 wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:25 pm
Gibson could end up playing for us under new management
Currently too busy posting his love of Boro on social media. I’d force him back here and stick him on the bench for the last 9 games.

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by jrgbfc » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:05 pm

Aclaret wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:44 pm
Indeed he could...when either Tarks or Mee or both move on with the Boss.
A new manager may think he was worth a go ahead of Ben Mee if he's still here.

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by joey13 » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:14 pm

huw.Y.WattfromWare wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:28 pm
Until now the Chairman has been correct. A seventh place finish, a good second half to last season(following Europe) and currently top half.
The 5 OOCs are not the problem. The problems start if next years OOCs decide to hang around without signing. We want no more Danny Ings situation. It should be extend or go. Then you are looking at a major rebuild, with nothing guaranteed.
Maybe Garlick can start taking training and picking the team seeing you are crediting him with our seventh place finish

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by boatshed bill » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:17 pm

With JBG out..

Pope,
Lowton, Tarkowski, Mee, Taylor,
McNeil, Brownhill, Cork, Westwood, Brady,
Rodriguez

It's not bad

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by huw.Y.WattfromWare » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:19 pm

joey13 wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:14 pm
Maybe Garlick can start taking training and picking the team seeing you are crediting him with our seventh place finish
You know that is not my point at all, unless you are being T-i-C.
He is tight with the coffers but Sean has managed to get good performances out of them anyway.

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by IanMcL » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:22 pm

Every team is collecting an injury or cramping players. We also have players on the suspension brink.

13 outfield players (without any end of contract) is ludicrous.

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by boatshed bill » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:26 pm

IanMcL wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:22 pm
Every team is collecting an injury or cramping players. We also have players on the suspension brink.

13 outfield players (without any end of contract) is ludicrous.
I just counted 17.

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by IanMcL » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:34 pm

Boys?

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by jojomk1 » Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:46 pm

MG has managed to get Barnes, Wood and Taylor to sign extended contracts this year plus Pope and McNeil are on the books till 2023 with further options on both and Brownhill signed in Jan for 4 years - not bad for a Chairman who can't get deals over the line
So who is Dyche moaning about
It would be good to get Tarks signed up for 3/4 years, but who else would he like to see kept on
Bardsley, Lennon and who could do without Kevin Long
Nothing against any of these guys but we are an ageing squad thanks to the personal choices of the manager
Maybe Dyche thinks he runs the club and decides he wants to keep the guys nearing their retirement but MG may be deciding otherwise

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by boatshed bill » Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:50 pm

IanMcL wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:34 pm
Boys?
Just Koiki, check it out.

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by MACCA » Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:46 pm

IanMcL wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:22 pm
Every team is collecting an injury or cramping players. We also have players on the suspension brink.

13 outfield players (without any end of contract) is ludicrous.
Our recruitment has been poor, I very much doubt Dyche has ever landed his number 1 target whilst in the premier league, and id also guess has never managed to get every position he wanted strengthened, strengthened in a window.

We do seem very slow in the transfer market, and our ability to strengthen the first 11 was always going to hamper us at some stage.
SD is only saying what a lot if fans have been saying for the past 12-18 months.

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by MACCA » Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:47 pm

MACCA wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:46 pm
Our recruitment has been poor, I very much doubt Dyche has ever landed his number 1 target whilst in the premier league, and id also guess has never managed to get every position he wanted strengthened, strengthened in a window.

We do seem very slow in the transfer market, and our inability to strengthen the first 11 in the last 3 windows was always going to come back and hamper us at some stage.
SD is only saying what a lot if fans have been saying for the past 12-18 months.

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by Ric_C » Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:46 am


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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by ksrclaret » Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:51 am

Ric_C wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:46 am
Bit more positive from Dyche?

https://www.westerntelegraph.co.uk/spor ... ing-power/
Certainly sounds like he's trying to put a little more context into his comments.

Perhaps more interesting was, reading between the lines, that he expects to be spending good money again this summer. I fear he could end up very disappointed in that respect.

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by Vegas Claret » Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:55 am

as long as we an afford to get Westwood a brew we'll be fine !

We've all been asking for Vydra to get a run, now he will so it's up to him and Jay to take it on

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by jojomk1 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:52 am

When you look at the players who are ooc this summer the only one I would really like to see stay longer term would be Hendrick, and he has had contract offers put before him to consider for the last 15-18 months
You could argue that Bardsley be given another year as he is currently first choice RB
Hart has already been covered with BPF, a current international player, which also means Legzdins is surplus to requirements
If, and it's only an assumption, the likes of Bardsley and Lennon are suggesting they will not carry on playing for the extended season without, at least, the offer of a full contract for next year then MG is right to let them go
Maybe Mike Rigg has finally stepped up to the plate and advised MG that he and his team have identified other choices out in the marketplace (hopefully a lot younger and coming with lower wage expectations)
I accept that our recruitment of new players over the last few summers has been sadly weak and maybe Dyche does not trust MG and MR to get it right this close season hence wants to keep ageing players on the books

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by superdimitri » Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:33 am

The club will always want to keep 4 keepers so if Ledgzins and Hart both leave you'd expect at least 1 new keeper signing.

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by Bertiebeehead » Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:52 am

Ric_C wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:46 am
Bit more positive from Dyche?

https://www.westerntelegraph.co.uk/spor ... ing-power/
I’d just read that, seems far more optimistic.

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by summitclaret » Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:23 am

Bertiebeehead wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:52 am
I’d just read that, seems far more optimistic.
Has he had a rollicking? He should have had imo for his earlier comments. A fuss over the ooc players was unreasonable.

As many have said, Hendrick has had ages to sign up. If we are offering him less in the current climate, we are absolutely correct. All new deals will be less for the average player. The world will have gone mad if that's not the case.

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by warksclaret » Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:35 am

The SD article is a positive . We need to keep him "on-side"
It may have been mentioned but apart from injuries, ooc situations, we have the threat of suspensions. Westwood one yellow card from a 2 match suspension. Tarkowski two cards away and Mee I believe one card from a one match ban. If Westwood got suspended at the end of June it means only Cork and Brownhill as available central midfielders
Lets hope injuries to Barnes, Wood and JBG are not long term as we will be down to the bare bones, and from the initial games played in the last few days injuries are occurring at a worrying rate

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by tiger76 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:51 am

jojomk1 wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:52 am
When you look at the players who are ooc this summer the only one I would really like to see stay longer term would be Hendrick, and he has had contract offers put before him to consider for the last 15-18 months
You could argue that Bardsley be given another year as he is currently first choice RB
Hart has already been covered with BPF, a current international player, which also means Legzdins is surplus to requirements
If, and it's only an assumption, the likes of Bardsley and Lennon are suggesting they will not carry on playing for the extended season without, at least, the offer of a full contract for next year then MG is right to let them go
Maybe Mike Rigg has finally stepped up to the plate and advised MG that he and his team have identified other choices out in the marketplace (hopefully a lot younger and coming with lower wage expectations)
I accept that our recruitment of new players over the last few summers has been sadly weak and maybe Dyche does not trust MG and MR to get it right this close season hence wants to keep ageing players on the books
Can't disagree with all that, the acid test will be who we sign, i'm not that fussed over us clearing the decks of fringe players, and the 2 keepers and Lennon definitely fall into that category for me.

I wouldn't be against us keeping Bards and Hendrick, but clearly for whatever reason we can't agree terms, so they'll be on their way.

The crucial aspect is who we recruit, like you i'd prefer us to try and pick up some younger talent from the Championship. or even the lower leagues.

If you look at someone such as Ollie Watkins, who joined Brentford from Exeter a few years back, then the players are out there, we just have to widen our horizons, and i know this is novel for us, but there is leagues outwith England that we could explore, if we so desired, and they might well provide better value for money.

Is our poor recruitment wholly down to MG/MR, or is it also hampered by SD having too narrow a shortlist of potential targets, we do seem to be in the market for ageing Championship players an awful lot, that's fine to a point, but sooner or later we need to try and produce a couple of whippersnappers .

Brownhill's capture for a modest fee hopefully suggests that we're realising the average age of the squad needs to be reduced, and younger talent brought through.

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by Bertiebeehead » Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:14 am

summitclaret wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:23 am
Has he had a rollicking? He should have had imo for his earlier comments. A fuss over the ooc players was unreasonable.

As many have said, Hendrick has had ages to sign up. If we are offering him less in the current climate, we are absolutely correct. All new deals will be less for the average player. The world will have gone mad if that's not the case.
Hadn’t thought of that but maybe he has been told to wind his neck in.

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by Erasmus » Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:21 am

One effect of the virus and the lockdown has been an increase among many of frustration and perhaps a more gloomy outlook at times. The world doesn't seem quite such a wonderful place any more, and inevitably this more negative view of life comes out in what we say from time to time. I think that could be one way of understanding what Sean said earlier.

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by mdd2 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:22 am

Of our squad of 25 players we have three out injured, one sulking in Middlesbrough, two in Hart and Lennon who apparently have been offered nothing beyond Tuesday next week so may refuse to be part of our squad of 11 plus is it nine subs and Bardsley and Hendrick still no word about their contracts after June 30th.That I think leaves us with 25-a possible 8=17. Which of our youngsters showing any promise can make up the 20. Any of them who have been out on loan will not be eligible so are we back to the times when we could not actually fill the subs bench?

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by warksclaret » Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:25 am

I am not feeling over confident about the quality of our recruitment in the next phase. We seem to love ooc players and those in their twilight years ie Pieters, Walters. Lennon,Bardsley (though he was a great acquisition),Hart,to some extent Westwood (though he has really resurrected his careeer with us). Really good ooc players usually end up being paid significant signing on fees as part of their negotiations, so I suspect these will be ruled out for us. Interesting few months ahead

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by mdd2 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:29 am

Just noticed Dunne is OOC on June 30th unless the option of another year is taken. Any news on that CT?

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by summitclaret » Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:30 am

mdd2 wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:22 am
Of our squad of 25 players we have three out injured, one sulking in Middlesbrough, two in Hart and Lennon who apparently have been offered nothing beyond Tuesday next week so may refuse to be part of our squad of 11 plus is it nine subs and Bardsley and Hendrick still no word about their contracts after June 30th.That I think leaves us with 25-a possible 8=17. Which of our youngsters showing any promise can make up the 20. Any of them who have been out on loan will not be eligible so are we back to the times when we could not actually fill the subs bench?
We only need 5 subs. We can just about manage that. I am proud that we will be in our 5th consecutive PL season with a small, tight-knit and balanced squad.

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by mdd2 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:33 am

We also have 12 of the under 23 squad OOC soon too although we have options on 6.

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by northeastclaret » Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:52 am

Personally I think far too much is being made of Dyche’s comments.

For whatever reason he has always been open about the realities and challenges of managing a club like Burnley on transfers and contracts.

His tone and demeaner when making the comments also don’t seem any different.

On this occasion his motive may also be that he trying to keep his closeness to the players by saying it’s the club and the current climate that has not delivered the contracts he hoped they would get?

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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by IanMcL » Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:54 am

It still strikes me that he is 'frustrated' and holding the contract negotiators responsible for failing to geed the inevitable.

“I’m not less happy,” he said. “You do get frustrated because you don’t want to end up saying, ‘I told you so’ and you end up saying, ‘I told you so’. Sometimes that’s the biggest frustration for all of us…

“It’s just a touch of frustration but life at Burnley Football Club has always been fair to me, it’s been good to me, but it is frustrating when you have to end up saying, ‘I told you so’ and they don’t want to hear it.”

Last line is the real clincher!

northeastclaret
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Re: Injuries hit Clarets for opener

Post by northeastclaret » Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:05 am

As you say that last comment does goes further than any he has made before

Hedontplayforyou
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Dyche and the board

Post by Hedontplayforyou » Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:02 pm

Will the board back Dyche? - the man who is probably out most important piece of the Burnley jigsaw. Obviously their are rifts between chairmen and managers at every club at some stage but if the rumours are to be true then it’s worrying.

Dyche is a must keep in my opinion.

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Re: Dyche and the board

Post by NickBFC » Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:08 pm

Nobody knows - it's going to be a huge few weeks and months for the club. If the Corona pandemic continues into next season then it'll have a massive impact on the club's finances (and everyone else's). I think the club are quite rightly airing on the side of caution as it's all an unknown quantity. Letting Lennon, Hart and maybe others leave is saving money short term which seems a sensible decision. We can then reassess the situation in pre season. I want us to keep Hendrick, but IMO the rest can leave - the squad needs a bit of a shake up and younger legs brought in. I think they'll be a few bargains floating around this summer, and swap deals/loans being preferred to outright buys. Dyche is understandably frustrated, who wouldn't be? but he isn't stupid and must know he's on a good contract at a stable club. The grass isn't always (usually) greener...

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Re: Dyche and the board

Post by IanMcL » Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:11 pm

Not so sure they have delivered his requirements, these last months.

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Re: Dyche and the board

Post by Iloveyoubrady » Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:20 pm

Hopefully, if we finish above 12th, and get the added 2M per place, we should be ok for finances and then the board can back dyche, and maybe even do better in the summer window than they could have done, because championship talent will be cheap. I think the positive we can take from this situation is that if dyche were to walk away, other clubs will most likely be in a worse position than us, so he may just think twice.

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