Injuries hit Clarets for opener

[NewClaret]

Garlick is right to not just give Dyche all the money he wants.

His transfer dealings recently aren't sustainable for our club without selling star players.

Losing Hendricks fee and probably Brady's. Joe Hart and Lennon were disastrous moves in hindsight.

The club can't afford to many expensive mistakes.

They seem to have done alright in recent years though, despite these ‘expensive mistakes’? 10th in the league with £40m in the bank?

Personally think Sean has done enough to be fully backed and that we should loosen the purse-strings a little to support a manager who has helped build a great platform for the club.

[NewClaret]

If Dyche were to leave then rest assured they'll be dancing on the tables long into the night at Ewood.

And its hard to imagine a demoralised depleted Burnley finishing above 18th next year.

His availability when we were recruiting last time was probably a once in a lifetime fluke, and it's hard to predict another miracle appointment.

It’s the seemingly fantastic relationship he’s built with this squad that is the key point. If he leaves, any new manager will want investment to build his own squad, surely Garlick can see the much cheaper option is to keep Sean happy?

[Long Time Lurker]

Lurker...... Which of the players out of contract would you have tried to keep, had this been a normal season?

A year ago I wouldn't have signed Pieters, Jay Rod, or Drinkwater. I would have probably passed over BPF as well for the price we paid and the fact that we didn't need him then ( he would have been cheaper this year ). Neither would I have wasted valuable time and resources chasing after the unrealistic targets that we failed to sign. I would have signed Greg Taylor.

18 months ago I might not have given Bardsley a new contract, but he has continued to impress me.

Lots of people highlight his willingness to get stuck in. However, what I really like about Bardsley is how smart he is. He knows himself very well, he never over extends himself ( although he isn't expected to get as far forward with Hendrick in front ), rarely gets caught out of position and always looks as fit as a butchers dog. He has truly magnificent stubble as well.

I would have given him a 1 year extension last year if he was open to it.

As for everyone else I consider this to be a normal season / window of opportunity, it is still the same game, still the same players, the only thing that might change are the numbers and availability. I would keep hold of Lennon as well, because JBG has a habbit of missing games, and I would ask Hart to consider staying until we have a better idea about BPF.

I posted my super short list of players that I would be looking at in the next window on the contract thread ( I think ).

[IanMcL]

I never thought Coyle could replace Cotterill or Dyche replace Howe.

You just never know what is round the corner.

Unfortunately, we probably do.

[IanMcL]

It's not Sean Dyche's club. To let him run riot with the cash flow and jeopardise our existence is not acceptable. The situation we find ourselves in today vindicates what the chairman has done. He is a very competent professional investor and manager. If Sean can do better then maybe its not a bad time for us to be bringing in someone new.

The issue is that the manager we know to be very savvy about players and their character, alerted the chairman that certain players would need to be sorted out, or risk being lost - along with the investment.

Chairman let it drift.

[IanMcL]

credit where its due moment, dyche was appointed by our club. the facilities he uses were supplied by our club. his acquisitions have been paid for by our club.

...and the finances acquired entirely due to the asture manager.

[Blackrod]

On a side note I wish there was a word limit with posts. If they are essays I just skip over them probably missing some good points.

I think Dyche just needed to know who was staying and who not so he can plan ahead. The situation is worse now because of not sorting short term extensions.

We don’t know the full details though. Hendrick might not want a short term deal if it risks his chance of another move. We need Bardsley for sure. Who knows what players like Lennon and Hart are asking for to play but what are they offering ? We should have signed and moulded a young right back as a minimum but we’ve let things come to a head with the lack of forward planning. You would expect the club to be more prudent now but some of these issues would have been resolved without such weak windows previously.

[warksclaret]

My worry is that SD has been already tapped up. He is now turning up the decibals re failures in the Board in getting people signed up on contracts, to provide a perfectly valid reason for considering a move

He has never been as overt as this in pointing the blame -bear in mind we are relatively safe for another season

[GodIsADeeJay81]

The issue is that the manager we know to be very savvy about players and their character, alerted the chairman that certain players would need to be sorted out, or risk being lost - along with the investment.

Chairman let it drift.

What has he let drift?
Hendrick has a contract offer but is looking around.

Hart has made it clear he wants off.

Of the other ones we can replace with younger where required, but as has mentioned this is going to be an interesting window.

[ashtonlongsider]

There's always two ways of looking at an argument. Frankly I can't understand why it should be a big deal at this juncture. We are surely safe and basically looking to fulfill our obligation and play the season out. Do we really want Europe, given our squad and the uncertainty over foreign travel for the foreseeable future? For me it's a No. I know we all have our opinions but for me there is only one of the OOC players that I'd be looking to keep and that's Bardsley. The rest for me can leave on the 30th June. I said on a previous thread that I was surprised Hendrick didn't sign a longer term contract when the extension was activated in December 18. Was it discussed? Was the player exercising his right to keep his options open? We can only guess, thats football.
Whilst I can understand SD's frustration at times, I share it myself. However looking at the bigger picture, especially with the uncertainty the next few years are going to bring, I feel it's prudent to trim the wage bill whilst we have a chance and keep ahead of the game.

[IanMcL]

Dyche has always had a whine in the press about the boards lack of spending. I don’t blame the board here, why on earth would they give Lennon, Legzkins, Bardsley, Hart, Hendrick new contracts 18 months ago when Dyche said so?

Hart Legzkins Lennon need to go.

Hendrick will be one of our highest earners and should’ve been sorted sooner but it appears it’s actually Hendrick refusing to sign, is Hendrick really the player we should be extending our wage cap to keep? Players have all the power, if Hendrick doesn’t want to re sign with us, what can the board do?


18 months ago I wouldn’t have extended Bardsleys contract either, he has since shown his worth and earned a new deal but I still think we need to replace either Lowton or Bardsley.

I am not sure you have the right players highlighted, where Me D ialtered the chairman. These will be players about to enter their last year. They will be next years Hendrick.

[IanMcL]

Let's pretend the world isn't in the worst recession ever, let's pretend money isn't circulating, let's pretend people are dieing including Clarets, let's pretend Sky and BT don't want their money back, let's pretend cashflow projections for the next 2 years are impossible to forecast, let's pretend local job cuts won't affect our attendances let's pretend businesses closing wont haven effect on our corporate income, let's pretend Spurs have been bailed out by the BofE, lets pretend everyone one of us left our refunds with the club to help out and lets keep blaming the board and give Sean everything we dont actually have.

I think you are missing out the timing of the alert, versus the inactivity of the chairman, which has led to this.

[Blackrod]

There's always two ways of looking at an argument. Frankly I can't understand why it should be a big deal at this juncture. We are surely safe and basically looking to fulfill our obligation and play the season out. Do we really want Europe, given our squad and the uncertainty over foreign travel for the foreseeable future? For me it's a No. I know we all have our opinions but for me there is only one of the OOC players that I'd be looking to keep and that's Bardsley. The rest for me can leave on the 30th June. I said on a previous thread that I was surprised Hendrick didn't sign a longer term contract when the extension was activated in December 18. Was it discussed? Was the player exercising his right to keep his options open? We can only guess, thats football.
Whilst I can understand SD's frustration at times, I share it myself. However looking at the bigger picture, especially with the uncertainty the next few years are going to bring, I feel it's prudent to trim the wage bill whilst we have a chance and keep ahead of the game.

Agree with this except for the Europe part. I would love that to happen again.

[BOYSIE31]

I think it is very concerning and I think it will lead to the manager moving on

I think it's more to do with most of these players on big wages and never play - well played to the board I say and get some younger eager talent in

[gtclaret]

So despite the club being ran financially prudently for a number of years whilst still being in the PL you're saying we will end up in league 1?
Isnt that where Sunderland currently are after taking a gamble and running at a loss for a number of years to stay in the PL?
Our model currently works, even better with this Pandemic as we aren't a mess.

It's exactly what I am saying, we can't keep expecting miracles, paying £10-15m on players and expecting them to perform in the prem, SD knows this
If we go down and don't get promoted, we are left with only the gate money, this will not be enough, during our 2009 promotion year we had a transfer embargo and paying wages became a struggle, if we didn't get promoted in 2009and in 2014 I doubt that we would be in the Championship now and we won both promotions against the odds. I'll say it again we cannot keep performing miracles eventually it will go wrong

[IanMcL]

I think this is all about how you see the club, if like Garlick it's important that the club profit each fiscal year, then you will have to be happy watching League one football, as Premiership football will be impossible, and the average attendance of 10k we will eventually get in the championship will not be enough to sustain us when the parachute payment end. If you want Premiership football, we would need to invest in a tightly knit squad backed by a productive youth system. This would mean financial losses for a couple of years ie a bit of a gamble

The problem with 'profit', is that it is prem or nothing.

[IanMcL]

So despite the club being ran financially prudently for a number of years whilst still being in the PL you're saying we will end up in league 1?
Isnt that where Sunderland currently are after taking a gamble and running at a loss for a number of years to stay in the PL?
Our model currently works, even better with this Pandemic as we aren't a mess.

That is not what is being said.
The point being repreated, is that the chairman has let some contracts, like Hendrick, too late and that others are about to be next years Hendrick, owing to inaction at the right time.

That will cost, not save millions.

This is the equivalent of loaning Glen Little to Reading, to save £100,000 wages. Outcome - crowd halved and team lost it's way.
Much more than £100k lost, as a result.

Same thought pattern here.

[IanMcL]

What has he let drift?
Hendrick has a contract offer but is looking around.

Hart has made it clear he wants off.

Of the other ones we can replace with younger where required, but as has mentioned this is going to be an interesting window.

Timing is everything.

[mdd2]

Our fan base and club finances without the premier league football will always be low championship Division one. Watch this MB melt down had ST prices gone up by 10% per annum this last 4 years-some of the prem money has effectively kept ST prices down which I doubt will be frozen next year.
I imagine the club will be losing money now and will continue to lose it until we are back to normal which is this year next year or sometime.
We will be selling players to recoup the £40 million or so shortfall in our revenue which we may have to fund in the next 18 months if the shortfall is as little as £40million
SD is starting to be just a football manager not understanding finances.
I imagine the initial delay with contracts was based on which Division we would be in next season but the Covid epidemic has just added to Garlick's problem of trying to keep our heads above the water.

[mdd2]

Whenever he goes I think we will have the same kind of problem faced by any club when their long serving manager leaves; usually a period in the doldrums

[Devils_Advocate]

Everybody seems to be avoiding the big question surrounding this news so looks like I'll have to ask it.

If Dyche goes CT are you going with him or are you gonna hang around? If you decide to go with him we will need someone new to run this board.

Maybe a bit premature but I would like to see Jeremy Bentham given a go

[Swizzlestick]

Everybody seems to be avoiding the big question surrounding this news so looks like I'll have to ask it.

If Dyche goes CT are you going with him or are you gonna hang around? If you decide to go with him we will need someone new to run this board.

Maybe a bit premature but I would like to see Jeremy Bentham given a go

My vote would be Tinnies.

[IanMcL]

Nah!

[mdd2]

Yeah or maybe nah!

[alboclaret]

I'm not reading all the thread so it might have already been suggested.
With deals running out on a few squad players and what's gone on financially in football there could be a possibility that the board has said we wont be buying anyone in the summer or increasing any wages so maybe dyche sees this as a big problem if we loose 2/3 squadies and replace with nothing.
I think hes just highlighting the situation so he doesnt get the flack when we are threadbare at the end of the month and begining of next season.

[TVC15]

I am not sure you have the right players highlighted, where Me D ialtered the chairman. These will be players about to enter their last year. They will be next years Hendrick.

This is spot on.
We don’t know the players Dyche is referring to. A few people are including the likes of Hart and Lennon in this. That sounds daft to me - why would SD want to keep Hart ?
It could easily be the likes of Tarks and other key players. Tarks only has 2 years left on his contract for example.

Of course Garlick has to look at the wider picture but SD is not Harry Redknapp - SD has got a brain and anyone who has met him and listened to one of his presentations would know he is more than capable of understanding the overall strategy of the club - he’s driven most of it in the last few years.

SD does not seem the type of person who would use something trivial to manufacture a way out of the club either. Whatever the issue is between them it will be something that is important to SD and the future of the club.

[jojomk1]

That is not what is being said.
The point being repreated, is that the chairman has let some contracts, like Hendrick, too late and that others are about to be next years Hendrick, owing to inaction at the right time.

That will cost, not save millions.

Hendrick was offered a new contract well before the end of last season. He did not want to sign it and the club, not him, took the option of the further year that summer in the hope that they could persuade him to sign for longer. This was well before the current financial situation so I am pretty sure terms of the contract offered then would have been as good, if not better than his current deal

We've managed to tie down the likes of Barnes, Wood and Taylor to new deals this season so I don't see how MG can take the blame for the Hendrick situation

With regard to Bardsley, Lennon and Hart they are at an age where we have to look at further, younger options

As for the players who are ooc at the end of next season I'm pretty sure MG will be discussing the idea of new contracts with SD but all of these are, again, getting on in years. Would expect we may also be talking to Tarks and his agent

[Spijed]

One thing I'm puzzled by is we seem to be dithering with regards to Jeff Hendrick yet had no hesitation in activating the extra year clause of Brady's contract.

[Grumps]

One thing I'm puzzled by is we seem to be dithering with regards to Jeff Hendrick yet had no hesitation in activating the extra year clause of Brady's contract.

Perhaps Brady wanted to sign, and Hendrick doesn't?

[aggi]

If it's not Pstotto then I'm going too.

[NewClaret]

One thing I'm puzzled by is we seem to be dithering with regards to Jeff Hendrick yet had no hesitation in activating the extra year clause of Brady's contract.

Because we held the right to activate it on the agreed terms. Issue with Hendrick appears to be that he is out of contract, so can go elsewhere, thus is likely negotiating as if he were a new signing.

He’ll get signing on fee’s elsewhere, so I guess we either agree to pay them or he goes. All a bit stupid when we’ve had a year to sign him up.

[jojomk1]

One thing I'm puzzled by is we seem to be dithering with regards to Jeff Hendrick yet had no hesitation in activating the extra year clause of Brady's contract.

As far as I can see the situation between Brady and Hendrick is almost the same - just that there was a year's difference between their old contracts ending - the club exercised the option of the extra year on both guys

[aggi]

On the budget and the spending, we could stretch more if we wanted. Bournemouth are probably the example of what we could be spending and roughly breaking even.

The issue is what if we go down? Bournemouth will probably be kept afloat by their owner for a few years. Not massive amounts, maybe £20M or £30m, but pretty large. This will enable them to keep a large part of the team together and have a good push for promotion.

Realistically we don't have owners who could do that so relegation would be followed by a fire sale and it would be a real stretch to get promoted again. Doing as we are now is building up that warchest to give us a couple of seasons to hopefully get promoted again.

Spending as we are now does increase the chance of going down but also increases the chance of going back up again. Given that we are going to go down at some point then it is probably the better plan than gambling on staying up indefinitely.

Things aren't going to change much with our current owners. To spend more we're going to need owners with much deeper pockets but obviously that is a risky option.

[NewClaret]

Hendrick was offered a new contract well before the end of last season. He did not want to sign it and the club, not him, took the option of the further year that summer in the hope that they could persuade him to sign for longer. This was well before the current financial situation so I am pretty sure terms of the contract offered then would have been as good, if not better than his current deal

We've managed to tie down the likes of Barnes, Wood and Taylor to new deals this season so I don't see how MG can take the blame for the Hendrick situation

With regard to Bardsley, Lennon and Hart they are at an age where we have to look at further, younger options

As for the players who are ooc at the end of next season I'm pretty sure MG will be discussing the idea of new contracts with SD but all of these are, agaon, getting on in years. Would expect we may also be talking to Tarks and his agent

All good points. And if this is Jeff stalling, he should go on 30/06.

One interesting comment I picked up on from the presser is he mentions the five ooc players we should have effected, then says words to the effect of: “plus a few other situations I feel we should have effected by now”. Here he is clearly discussing new incoming players. It’s true; if you don’t want to re-sign the older contingent - Lennon, Bardsley, etc - then you have to have put in the hard yards early and signed the replacements. MG has done neither. Not saying it’s easy, but that’s the reality of why Sean is rightly frustrated in my opinion.

[Firthy]

One thing I'm puzzled by is we seem to be dithering with regards to Jeff Hendrick yet had no hesitation in activating the extra year clause of Brady's contract.

Maybe Hendrick wants more than we're prepared to pay him or if the interest from Italy is genuine, it has turned his head. The only people that know that are Hendrick, SD and the board so anything else is pure speculation. Tough times ahead for all clubs, not just ours. I do think we are in a better position than a lot of other clubs to ride out the storm, I'm sure SD will know this and won't be jumping ship in a hurry. I think he's just venting his frustration and as usual it gets blown out of proportion by the media.

[jojomk1]

As far as I am aware we were not allowed to sign any new players until the end of this month (and the rules on that may change given the extended season)

[taffy]

Whatever dyche says in public could be totally different to what he says in private to garlic, of course he is going to say he wants to keep certain players and give them a new contract but the reality is that everybody is replaceable and dyche and his team of advisors will have players already lined up to replace those who don't sign the contract offered. As always player power will win and you can't force them to sign but garlic is not going to be held to ransom with wage demands we can't afford the players either sign or move on either way dyche looks good because he wanted to keep them.

[Hibsclaret]

Whatever dyche says in public could be totally different to what he says in private to garlic

The whole thing just stinks tbh

[randomclaret2]

I think Brady re-signing was more to do with us being light on numbers and nobody else wanting him as much as anything

[snapcrackleandpop]

As brilliant as Garlick has been for the club, we are all aware he is tighter than cramp.

[bfcmatt]

Sean Dyche has always been a person who has kept his cards close to his chest. There has to be some level of unrest for him to come out and publicly put the blame on the shoulders of the chairman. I believe in the past this isn't the Sean Dyche we would have normally seen.

[TVC15]

As far as I can see the situation between Brady and Hendrick is almost the same - just that there was a year's difference between their old contracts ending - the club exercised the option of the extra year on both guys

Don’t think it was. Brady has a contract with a one year option that either party could trigger.
Hendrick just had a one year contract.
We have offered him a new contract and he has rejected it so can walk away from the club for free.

[Swizzlestick]

This ‘cards close to his chest’ thing is a bit of a myth. He’s made pointed comments about the board before when he’s wanted more cash. I think he’s picked the wrong moment for this fight and he might find he doesn’t have as much support as he expects.

[NewClaret]

As far as I am aware we were not allowed to sign any new players until the end of this month (and the rules on that may change given the extended season)

Fair point. That would explain it. Although maybe SD means “agreed terms” rather than “signed up”.

[Burnley Ace]

My worry is that SD has been already tapped up. He is now turning up the decibals re failures in the Board in getting people signed up on contracts, to provide a perfectly valid reason for considering a move

He has never been as overt as this in pointing the blame -bear in mind we are relatively safe for another season

He doesn’t need to provide a perfectly valid reason if he wants to move to a bigger club, earn more money or just even fancies a change then good luck to him and thanks for everything you’ve done.

[NewClaret]

As brilliant as Garlick has been for the club, we are all aware he is tighter than cramp.

I have nothing against some fiscal discipline. I’m entirely on board with that, but The easiest way to secure BFC’s financial health is to stay in the PL. He’s barely backed the manager in the last two windows and now seems to be stalling on new contracts for existing players, never mind new ones.

In summary, Dyche is doing his job on the pitch. That will take a lot of effort, dedication, focus, etc. Garlick needs to support him off it, and put the same level of discipline in to his responsibilities, or Sean will rightly start to feel his efforts and better spent elsewhere.

[Dyched]

[quote=snapcrackleandpop post_id=<a href="tel:1298014">1298014</a> time=<a href="tel:1592559762">1592559762</a> user_id=370]
As brilliant as Garlick has been for the club, we are all aware he is tighter than cramp.

I have nothing against some fiscal discipline. I’m entirely on board with that, but The easiest way to secure BFC’s financial health is to stay in the PL. He’s barely backed the manager in the last two windows and now seems to be stalling on new contracts for existing players, never mind new ones.

In summary, Dyche is doing his job on the pitch. That will take a lot of effort, dedication, focus, etc. Garlick needs to support him off it, and put the same level of discipline in to his responsibilities, or Sean will rightly start to feel his efforts and better spent elsewhere.
[/quote]

If players don’t want to sign contracts there is nothing Garlick can do.

If we’ve offered players what we are willing to pay them and they have declined what can we do? Offer more? Cos that’d be proper stupid eh?

[Jakubs Tash]

I think this is more to do with whether the manager wanted to keep certain players and then trusting his judgement. Personally, I would've been happy to maybe extend Bardsley for a year, give Hendrick a new deal and let the others go but if the manager wants to extend the contract of other players then he should certainly have earned the trust and respect to be backed.

[Bfcboyo]

Perhaps Brady wanted to sign, and Hendrick doesn't?

Hendrick has one foot at Celtic it's a done deal.

[tiger76]

This ‘cards close to his chest’ thing is a bit of a myth. He’s made pointed comments about the board before when he’s wanted more cash. I think he’s picked the wrong moment for this fight and he might find he doesn’t have as much support as he expects.

All managers want more resources, that's human nature, but this dig by Sean feels different, and if we don't back him we could live to regret it, he's made mistakes as all gaffers do, Drinkwater & Gibson are notable costly errors, but pound for pound he's been our most successful manager in decades, and if he decides that there's better options, or he's taken BFC as far as he can, we'll have some bleeding big shoes to fill.

Even if a new manager comes in, he'll expect funds to strengthen, so i don't understand Garlick's thinking here, to generate a profit we have to remain a PL club, and our best chance of doing that is keeping hold of SD, he's earned the right to speak out given the 100's of millions he's brought into the club in the last last few years.

Now to balance this out, our wage bill is high compared to our turnover, and we could do with cutting out the dead wood, the only ooc players i'd be interested in keeping would be Bradsley & Hendrick, the rest can go for me, and the likes of Hart & Lennon will i suspect be among our highest earners, and they're not regulars by any stretch, plus they're not getting any younger.

I'd hope we have a list of targets that might be cheaper than before the CV crisis, and i'd guess some Champ clubs might have to have fire sales come the next window, so if we could pick up a few bargains there, and potentially lower both the average age of our squad, and our wage bill i'd be happy with that scenario.

But the conundrum for Mr Garlick is we either pay out on wages, or pay out on transfer fees to replace outgoing players. somewhere we'll have to invest in the playing staff, otherwise we'll be facing Championship footy sooner than we'd like.

As other posters have mentioned what the hell does Mike Rigg bring to the table, i can't think of anything constructive he's done in his time here.