Why 20 minutes?
Swing Low....
-
- Posts: 8023
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:08 am
- Been Liked: 2819 times
- Has Liked: 503 times
- Location: Earth
-
- Posts: 8023
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:08 am
- Been Liked: 2819 times
- Has Liked: 503 times
- Location: Earth
Re: Swing Low....
Next thing you know the loony liberal left will be banning me from the chinky or the paki shop
Re: Swing Low....
The moonbats on here will be gutted when this movement to erase history, starts eating into it's own institutions.
Starting with the Guardian newspaper
https://www.salisburyreview.com/blog/th ... -guardian/
Starting with the Guardian newspaper
https://www.salisburyreview.com/blog/th ... -guardian/
Re: Swing Low....
That's rather ironic, given your actual username is poking fun at one particular raceClaretAndJew wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:08 pmNext thing you know the loony liberal left will be banning me from the chinky or the paki shop
-
- Posts: 2105
- Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 9:28 pm
- Been Liked: 492 times
- Has Liked: 411 times
Re: Swing Low....
He forgets that if it was a for a certain Winston Churchill An loads of patriotic brits he wouldn’t be here today.. you know that part of cruel history.
Absolute spanner’s the lot of them.
-
- Posts: 7454
- Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 7:39 pm
- Been Liked: 2256 times
- Has Liked: 2169 times
Re: Swing Low....
I strongly recommend anyone that is currently supportive of this attempted revolution that downplays the severity, or think its solely about racism to just give the first 30 minutes of this a watch/listen:
https://youtu.be/pRCzZp1J0v0
Then have a read of this
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/critical-theory/
https://youtu.be/pRCzZp1J0v0
Then have a read of this
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/critical-theory/
Re: Swing Low....
Why wouldn't he be here today?Right_winger wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:40 pmHe forgets that if it was a for a certain Winston Churchill An loads of patriotic brits he wouldn’t be here today.. you know that part of cruel history.
Absolute spanner’s the lot of them.
-
- Posts: 16896
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:37 pm
- Been Liked: 6963 times
- Has Liked: 1483 times
- Location: Leeds
Re: Swing Low....
Imagine calling a section of society spanner’s and then bringing Winston Churchill and our WW2 generation into a discussion about a totally unrelated song. Some of you have absolutely no self awareness.
-
- Posts: 7454
- Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 7:39 pm
- Been Liked: 2256 times
- Has Liked: 2169 times
-
- Posts: 16896
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:37 pm
- Been Liked: 6963 times
- Has Liked: 1483 times
- Location: Leeds
Re: Swing Low....
Of course not. I just think it’s a very bold claim that had Hitler won the war 75 years ago there wouldn’t be any Black people, to use one example, in this country.CoolClaret wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:26 pmNot really.
Do you think the death camps would've just stopped? He would have genocided any that he deemed as 'inferior'
-
- Posts: 9474
- Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:47 pm
- Been Liked: 1185 times
- Has Liked: 779 times
Re: Swing Low....
The ideology was the aryan was the true master race superseded by none, anybody inferior the people deemed to be second class citizens would be still allowed to live as they had a purpose to fulfil helping the nazi cause, Speer would have had working them working around the clock on armaments & other areas of production vital to the economy.CoolClaret wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:26 pmNot really.
Do you think the death camps would've just stopped? He would have genocided any that he deemed as 'inferior'
-
- Posts: 7312
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:06 pm
- Been Liked: 1827 times
- Has Liked: 3964 times
Re: Swing Low....
There is no equivalence whatsoever between John Newton and the others you reference (including COLSTON).Burnley Ace wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:33 pmYou can’t just choose to reject your past in some sort of Carte Blanche act of redemption! Coulson donated the modern equivalent of millions of pounds to hospitals, schools and civil buildings yet his past isn’t expunged.
I’m not saying it should be banned but in the same way we don’t hear Gary Glitter or Rolf Harris, this song written by a man whose profiteering and exploitation of salves is arguably as bad if not worse then their crimes isn’t subjected to the same scrutiny or opprobrium.
John Newton was born into a society where slavery was lawful and was initially captured and press-ganged into the navy. It is true that he later worked on a slave ship and came up through the ranks, but at a relatively early age he rejected his own past and fought against slavery. As an abolitionist he was initially in the minority. He lived just long enough to see the abolition of the Slave Trade in Africa. (Dying just 2 months later).
Glitter and Harris were both consciously breaking the law of their time, whereas - based on his own experiences -Newton fought to change an unjust law, so comparing one of his hymns unfavorably to their music is ludicrous.
-
- Posts: 7454
- Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 7:39 pm
- Been Liked: 2256 times
- Has Liked: 2169 times
Re: Swing Low....
They were getting crazier and crazier.Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:47 pmThe ideology was the aryan was the true master race superseded by none, anybody inferior the people deemed to be second class citizens would be still allowed to live as they had a purpose to fulfil helping the nazi cause, Speer would have had working them working around the clock on armaments & other areas of production vital to the economy.
Theres no real logic with the Nazis - they were fueled by drugs, disillusions and a lot of terrible science to push their crazed ideology.
-
- Posts: 8023
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:08 am
- Been Liked: 2819 times
- Has Liked: 503 times
- Location: Earth
Re: Swing Low....
Ok. Then please accept my sincere apology.ClaretAndJew wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:17 pmDamo,
I have Jewish blood on my Dad's side of the family.
I've honestly never seen you mention that. And I probably shouldn't have just made the assumption
This user liked this post: martin_p
-
- Posts: 8023
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:08 am
- Been Liked: 2819 times
- Has Liked: 503 times
- Location: Earth
Re: Swing Low....
You don't need to apologise mate I don't take no offence to these things. I understand your point though. No hard feelings.
Everything is weird in these times.
These 2 users liked this post: Damo martin_p
Re: Swing Low....
Thanks for that palClaretAndJew wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:28 pmYou don't need to apologise mate I don't take no offence to these things. I understand your point though. No hard feelings.
Everything is weird in these times.
-
- Posts: 3552
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:03 pm
- Been Liked: 656 times
- Has Liked: 2899 times
Re: Swing Low....
It doesn’t matter whether it was legal or illegal we are judging their actions by today’s standards.nil_desperandum wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:07 pmThere is no equivalence whatsoever between John Newton and the others you reference (including COLSTON).
John Newton was born into a society where slavery was lawful and was initially captured and press-ganged into the navy. It is true that he later worked on a slave ship and came up through the ranks, but at a relatively early age he rejected his own past and fought against slavery. As an abolitionist he was initially in the minority. He lived just long enough to see the abolition of the Slave Trade in Africa. (Dying just 2 months later).
Glitter and Harris were both consciously breaking the law of their time, whereas - based on his own experiences -Newton fought to change an unjust law, so comparing one of his hymns unfavorably to their music is ludicrous.
Newton first went to sea with his father before he was press ganged. Some years later he voluntarily signed up as first mate on a slave ship, he wasn’t forced into it. He gave up being a captain, after suffering a stroke, but still invested in buying and selling slaves.
Colston had died before Newton was even born, he gave away his fortune 60 years before William Wilberforce was even born! Colston lived in an age when slavery was legal so why is he being judged to a different criteria?
-
- Posts: 7312
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:06 pm
- Been Liked: 1827 times
- Has Liked: 3964 times
Re: Swing Low....
I've already explained that, and I note that you haven't come back on the point about Gary Glitter and Rolf Harris.Burnley Ace wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:50 pmIt doesn’t matter whether it was legal or illegal we are judging their actions by today’s standards.
Newton first went to sea with his father before he was press ganged. Some years later he voluntarily signed up as first mate on a slave ship, he wasn’t forced into it. He gave up being a captain, after suffering a stroke, but still invested in buying and selling slaves.
Colston had died before Newton was even born, he gave away his fortune 60 years before William Wilberforce was even born! Colston lived in an age when slavery was legal so why is he being judged to a different criteria?
Newton very publicly acknowledged the "sins of his youth" and thereafter did all he could to make up for it by joining with Wilberforce and the abolitionists to confront and challenge his past. Colston also lived at a time when slavery was legal but he took advantage of this in a brutal and barbaric way and - importantly - never repented. Anyone who can't see the difference between a penitent who apologises for and tries to make up for their past, and someone who is unrepentant is pretty much condemning everyone who's ever lived.
Many of us on this board did things in the past that were inappropriate - even illegal - and that we now deeply regret, but we don't expect to be tarred by it forever.
Re: Swing Low....
Can anyone find a link in which actual real people are quoted saying it should be banned? No? But there are plenty of links in which our part time pm is calling for it not to be banned. The courageous Johnson tilting at straw man windmills. It’s so good that nobody falls for media manipulation here.
-
- Posts: 3552
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:03 pm
- Been Liked: 656 times
- Has Liked: 2899 times
Re: Swing Low....
Why would Colston repent, he died over 100 years before slavery was abolished, was there even an abolition movement in 1720? He was a man of his time and gave away all his money to charity. You are asking Colston to repent something that wasn’t considered to be wrong. He was dead 50 years before the first abolition group was formed.nil_desperandum wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:23 pmI've already explained that, and I note that you haven't come back on the point about Gary Glitter and Rolf Harris.
Newton very publicly acknowledged the "sins of his youth" and thereafter did all he could to make up for it by joining with Wilberforce and the abolitionists to confront and challenge his past. Colston also lived at a time when slavery was legal but he took advantage of this in a brutal and barbaric way and - importantly - never repented. Anyone who can't see the difference between a penitent who apologises for and tries to make up for their past, and someone who is unrepentant is pretty much condemning everyone who's ever lived.
Many of us on this board did things in the past that were inappropriate - even illegal - and that we now deeply regret, but we don't expect to be tarred by it forever.
Newton got involved with the abolition movement in 1788, 30+ years after he’d retired as a slave ship captain and 15 years after the Somersett Case.
The point about Glitter and Harris has nothing to do with legality but the moral position. If we are judging people on what they actually did then they should be judged on how we perceive their actions now - we don’t listen to their music (like Michael Jackson) because their actions were abhorrent.
As for brutal and barbaric Colston was an investor, Newton actually shackled the poor wretches and captained the ships from which dead slaves were dumped overboard and the females raped!! He had a lot to repent.
If we are going to revise history and pick and choose who is demonised let’s look at everyone involved, not just the rich white men that are easy targets for the (as some would say) Marxist organisers of the BLM movement.
-
- Posts: 7312
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:06 pm
- Been Liked: 1827 times
- Has Liked: 3964 times
Re: Swing Low....
Deleted
Last edited by nil_desperandum on Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 7312
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:06 pm
- Been Liked: 1827 times
- Has Liked: 3964 times
Re: Swing Low....
Talking of revisionism, there's a great deal in this post that is either inaccurate, out of context or unbalanced. I'm not going to pick through every sentence, but just to pick out one: you fail to acknowledge that it is claimed that Colston had 84,000 Africans transported to the Caribbean of which over 20% perished on the journey. So as I said brutal and barbaric. ( I didn't attempt to defend Newton's early life).Burnley Ace wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:23 pmWhy would Colston repent, he died over 100 years before slavery was abolished, was there even an abolition movement in 1720? He was a man of his time and gave away all his money to charity. You are asking Colston to repent something that wasn’t considered to be wrong. He was dead 50 years before the first abolition group was formed.
Newton got involved with the abolition movement in 1788, 30+ years after he’d retired as a slave ship captain and 15 years after the Somersett Case.
The point about Glitter and Harris has nothing to do with legality but the moral position. If we are judging people on what they actually did then they should be judged on how we perceive their actions now - we don’t listen to their music (like Michael Jackson) because their actions were abhorrent.
As for brutal and barbaric Colston was an investor, Newton actually shackled the poor wretches and captained the ships from which dead slaves were dumped overboard and the females raped!! He had a lot to repent.
If we are going to revise history and pick and choose who is demonised let’s look at everyone involved, not just the rich white men that are easy targets for the (as some would say) Marxist organisers of the BLM movement.
You also correctly point out that Colston didn't repent as he died over 100 years before slavery was abolished.
Slavery was, (to use your words) - "something that wasn’t considered to be wrong" in Colston's time, but the same held true in Newton's time, but you failed to acknowledge that.
It was 30 years before the Abolition Movement was founded, almost 20 before the Somersett Case and 53 before the Abolition Act of 1807 when Newton converted to Christianity (1754) and began to question his previous moral code. Colston could have done the same 50 years earlier had he - similarly- grown to believe that slavery was wrong.
When The Committee for the Abolition of the Slave Trade was finally set up in 1787, Newton was a contributor and the following year, (34 years after he had retired from the slave trade), Newton broke a long silence on the subject with the publication of a forceful pamphlet Thoughts Upon the Slave Trade, in which he described the horrific conditions of the slave ships during the Middle Passage. He apologised for:
"a confession, which ... comes too late ... It will always be a subject of humiliating reflection to me, that I was once an active instrument in a business at which my heart now shudders."
He had copies sent to every MP, and the pamphlet sold so well that it swiftly required reprinting.
He also wrote his own epiphet for his memorial stone:
JOHN NEWTON. Clerk. Once an infidel and libertine a servant of slaves in Africa was by the rich mercy of our LORD and SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST preserved, restored, pardoned and appointed to preach the faith he had long laboured to destroy. Near 16 years as Curate of this parish and 28 years as Rector of St. Mary Woolnoth.
It is this humility and penitence that separates him from Colston and some others.
"Amazing Grace" isn't the only hymn penned by Newton that is still sung regularly in churches of all denominations, and I will guarantee that when singing resumes in religious buildings they will continue to be sung unapologetically by congregations the length and breadth of the country.
You appear to be the only one who is unhappy about this.
-
- Posts: 1271
- Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:40 am
- Been Liked: 343 times
- Has Liked: 400 times
- Location: From Accy, Exiled in Surrey
Re: Swing Low....
I guess that C&J has deliberately said 'father' instead of 'mother' to see the reaction. I am sure he knows his Israeli 'Law of Return'ClaretAndJew wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:17 pmDamo,
I have Jewish blood on my Dad's side of the family.
This user liked this post: RingoMcCartney
Re: Swing Low....
Flashback. Four Pennies (and others) Singing Black Girl. Could it be re-released now? BLM would target something related for sure to be dismantlesdand destroyed.
Re: Swing Low....
Interestingly about the time that transportation of slaves from Africa to the Carribean was occuring (not to Arabia because that had been going on before) transporation of white , often petty criminals, to Australia was occuring. Should the UK be aplogozing to the Aussies for that outrage?Burnley Ace wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:23 pmWhy would Colston repent, he died over 100 years before slavery was abolished, was there even an abolition movement in 1720? He was a man of his time and gave away all his money to charity. You are asking Colston to repent something that wasn’t considered to be wrong. He was dead 50 years before the first abolition group was formed.
Newton got involved with the abolition movement in 1788, 30+ years after he’d retired as a slave ship captain and 15 years after the Somersett Case.
The point about Glitter and Harris has nothing to do with legality but the moral position. If we are judging people on what they actually did then they should be judged on how we perceive their actions now - we don’t listen to their music (like Michael Jackson) because their actions were abhorrent.
As for brutal and barbaric Colston was an investor, Newton actually shackled the poor wretches and captained the ships from which dead slaves were dumped overboard and the females raped!! He had a lot to repent.
If we are going to revise history and pick and choose who is demonised let’s look at everyone involved, not just the rich white men that are easy targets for the (as some would say) Marxist organisers of the BLM movement.
Re: Swing Low....
It is part of our heritage.
The flower of Scotland is about war where will it end if we give up to these galhoots?
The flower of Scotland is about war where will it end if we give up to these galhoots?
Re: Swing Low....
If any living Briton was involved in transporting any living Australian, then yes, he or she should apologise. Other than that, it's all a bit futile.Stayingup wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:45 amInterestingly about the time that transportation of slaves from Africa to the Carribean was occuring (not to Arabia because that had been going on before) transporation of white , often petty criminals, to Australia was occuring. Should the UK be aplogozing to the Aussies for that outrage?
Perhaps if instead of apologising, they gave the Australians the opportunity to put things right by coming to live in sunny Lancashire?
-
- Posts: 8528
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:22 pm
- Been Liked: 2889 times
- Has Liked: 1763 times
Re: Swing Low....
please god no, cannot abide those whining Australian accents. their misuse of vowels is worse than any previous national outrage imaginable.
-
- Posts: 7066
- Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:43 pm
- Been Liked: 2240 times
- Has Liked: 1618 times
- Location: Baxenden
Re: Swing Low....
Just ban Black Lives Matter... problem solved.
-
- Posts: 7312
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:06 pm
- Been Liked: 1827 times
- Has Liked: 3964 times
Re: Swing Low....
Prince Harry has intervened now. He's really lost his way, his commonsense, and presumably his advisers.