The Chairman

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Giftonsnoidea
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Re: The Chairman

Post by Giftonsnoidea » Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:11 pm

Absolutely 100% behind Garlick for not renewing Hart and Lennon. Never performed up to the level required for the team to thrive. Spunked a lot of cash on them two alone, Brady will have to go next if he can’t get back to pre injury level.

If the rumor of offering Hendrick less money than what he was on is true then I’m not behind that. That doesn’t make much sense.

Hope Rigg starts earning his money soon with some up and coming talent. Hope Brownhill comes good.
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Conroy92
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Re: The Chairman

Post by Conroy92 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:25 pm

Maybe Dyche is unhappy with Rigg? If it's not Dyche negotiating new contracts and transfers I could see him being unhappy! Maybe the board have inclined Rigg is here to stay and Dyche is unhappy with that?
I thought this might blow over after Bardsley resigned but ClaretTonys comments are the worrying aspect, along with Bentley's "confirmation".
I actually don't think we've lost too much with the ooc players, we look to be safe so if we reinvest no issue.
Maybe Sean has been told his budget for next year i.e none.
Maybe Sean himself is making a bigger deal out of this to push a move?

Lots of maybes, it'll all come out in the wash!

Giftonsnoidea
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Re: The Chairman

Post by Giftonsnoidea » Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:28 pm

We definitely need to spend some money but only on younger players not the old pros which Dyche is so fond of.

Time to invest in youth as a priority however much that costs because prices are not coming down.

ewanrob
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Re: The Chairman

Post by ewanrob » Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:34 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:46 pm
As I said, end of tether.
Well looks like your opinions were right all along CT, so apologies for any flak caused at the weekend. I'm absolutely stunned with the speed of this now, and can only hope if he does indeed go, we dont end up being caught with our trousers down as with Coyle. I would hope some work has already gone on with regards to a suitable replacement, at least the new man will have a full transfer window and season to go at.

summitclaret
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Re: The Chairman

Post by summitclaret » Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:41 pm

IanMcL wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:15 pm
A public siding with his players, when his chairman failed to listen, is expected of a manager wanting his team support.

The next stage should be a Chairman/Manager discussion, on future plans for both.

Hopefully, they agree the route forward.

Up the Clarets
Sorry. Can't agree. There were only 2 worth making a fuss over. One had months to sign up and was most likely going anyway. The other has agreed a last minute deal and was probably always going to. Absolutely no need for Sean to be so destructive. We have to stand up to agents' demands.

Gordaleman
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Re: The Chairman

Post by Gordaleman » Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:52 pm

Not sure Sean if going anywhere to be honest. As Sean himself said. (Not an exact quote but..) "Things flare up occasionally but I like to park them quickly." That to me suggest any bust up is pretty much over.

Anyway, if Eddie Howe gets sacked, Sean would become the longest serving manager, so it would be a shame to miss out on that.

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Re: The Chairman

Post by IanMcL » Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:53 pm

I think you will find the issue was mainly over contract extensions, to get to the end of this season (25% left).

That is why the bench is bare....chairman did nowt.

joey13
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Re: The Chairman

Post by joey13 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:02 pm

Gordaleman wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:52 pm
Not sure Sean if going anywhere to be honest. As Sean himself said. (Not an exact quote but..) "Things flare up occasionally but I like to park them quickly." That to me suggest any bust up is pretty much over.

Anyway, if Eddie Howe gets sacked, Sean would become the longest serving manager, so it would be a shame to miss out on that.
I suspect Dyche could not care less about becoming the longest serving manager

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Re: The Chairman

Post by Gordaleman » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:12 pm

joey13 wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:02 pm
I suspect Dyche could not care less about becoming the longest serving manager
I didn't say Sean would. I meant more for the fans and the club. Anyway, I stick with my first paragraph.

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Re: The Chairman

Post by Wile E Coyote » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:22 pm

dyche can't be judged in comparison to other premier league managers, his budgets have always been restrictive.
for him to steer Burnley half way up this league by 2020 is no mean feat.
clubs elsewhere no full well how great a job he has done under these conditions.
If his abilities were matched by some serious spending by a club, and he had assurances that would be the case, he'll go.

mdd2
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Re: The Chairman

Post by mdd2 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:23 pm

Ainsworth was in post as temporary manager at Wycombe in late September and the post was made permanent in November 2012 according to Wiki
I think therefore he is the longest of the three, with Eddie number two and unlikely to be sacked and Sean number 3 but likely to leave according to many not in the know.

mdd2
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Re: The Chairman

Post by mdd2 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:26 pm

Money for a manager does not always bring success. Cotts produced poorer results and football when he had more money than when he had not a pot to p**s in.

Woodleyclaret
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Re: The Chairman

Post by Woodleyclaret » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:39 pm

Villa and Fulham have spent over£200m on promotion and despite Villa getting up they are coming straight down and Fulham are still looking at imo at another Championship season
We need to give Sean money and can't hold the old dog signings against him
We have earned a fortune in our time up and spent very little.We do need more youngsters signed and this needs to be priority. Garlick is playing his cards close as no one knows when crowds will be able to come back
We could be months away and our transfer funds seriously weakened by the Covid 19 continuing

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Re: The Chairman

Post by mdd2 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:43 pm

Looking at the way Joe Public is behaving (beaches on the South Coast) these last 48 hours, we may be a long long way from live games with normal crowds

Nonayforever
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Re: The Chairman

Post by Nonayforever » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:59 pm

joey13 wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:02 pm
I suspect Dyche could not care less about becoming the longest serving manager
I don't know about that - Dyche likes to put down markers, that would be a very nice gold star to have alongside your name.

I suspect we will get to the end of the season with him & then a quick exit. There will be an awful long list of applicants for Garlick to interview.

Giftonsnoidea
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Re: The Chairman

Post by Giftonsnoidea » Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:34 pm

When we’ve spent nearly £20m on Hart and Lennon when you add up there transfer +signing on fees and wages over last 2-3 years you’ve definitely got to question the return on investment. If we had put that towards a younger player such as Phillips we’d still have something to show for it or a big sell on fee if he produced the goods.

Chester Perry
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Re: The Chairman

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:37 pm

Giftonsnoidea wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:34 pm
When we’ve spent nearly £20m on Hart and Lennon when you add up there transfer +signing on fees and wages over last 2-3 years you’ve definitely got to question the return on investment. If we had put that towards a younger player such as Phillips we’d still have something to show for it or a big sell on fee if he produced the goods.
Would love to see you show the data on that - I think it may be around half or even less with bonuses

Giftonsnoidea
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Re: The Chairman

Post by Giftonsnoidea » Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:39 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:37 pm
Would love to see you show the data on that - I think it may be around half or even less with bonuses
Both £3m transfer fees plus 40k per week for 2 + years don’t think I’ll be far off, someone might know more than me tho happy to be corrected.

Maybe £14m more realistic

Chester Perry
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Re: The Chairman

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:53 pm

Giftonsnoidea wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:39 pm
Both £3m transfer fees plus 40k per week for 2 + years don’t think I’ll be far off, someone might know more than me tho happy to be corrected.

Maybe £14m more realistic
Lennon fee - club described it as nominal - transfermarket says £!.5m


Hart fee - transfermart says 3.5m


Wages suggested here as Hart £45k (£4.6m over 2 years) Lennon £35k (£2.7m over 18 months)

https://www.spotrac.com/epl/burnley-f.c/payroll/

so roughly £12m

Winstonswhite
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Re: The Chairman

Post by Winstonswhite » Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:53 pm

Please tell me we didn’t pay 3 million for Lennon

Chester Perry
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Re: The Chairman

Post by Chester Perry » Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:58 pm

Winstonswhite wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:53 pm
Please tell me we didn’t pay 3 million for Lennon
Think I just did

mdd2
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Re: The Chairman

Post by mdd2 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:01 pm

We didn't pay 3 million for Lennon
That ok Winston?

Giftonsnoidea
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Re: The Chairman

Post by Giftonsnoidea » Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:07 pm

mdd2 wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:01 pm
We didn't pay 3 million for Lennon
That ok Winston?
Sky reported it as £3m at the time ( remember seeing it) but the article has since disappeared and it just says undisclosed on the online archive

Paul Waine
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Re: The Chairman

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:25 pm

Giftonsnoidea wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:34 pm
When we’ve spent nearly £20m on Hart and Lennon when you add up there transfer +signing on fees and wages over last 2-3 years you’ve definitely got to question the return on investment. If we had put that towards a younger player such as Phillips we’d still have something to show for it or a big sell on fee if he produced the goods.
I estimate Joe Hart has cost us around £10 million: £3.5 m transfer fee to City + £50k per week + 13.8% ERS NIC for 2 years = £9.6 million. (Don't forget City were paying him the second £50k/week for the final year of his original City contract).

How much did we pay to sign Aaron Lennon? How much were we paying him?

EDIT: I see you've already adjusted £20 million to £14 million. I'm OK with that figure for 2 experienced internationals, even if we haven't seen the best of either of them from earlier in their careers.

Chester Perry
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Re: The Chairman

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:49 am

for those worrying about the cost of Hart and Lennon try Ross McCormack at Villa - played a lot less than either hart or Lennon, cost twice as much for the same length of service as Hart and Kennon combined,

https://twitter.com/aidanmccartney/stat ... 5420722177

Woonderbah
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Re: The Chairman

Post by Woonderbah » Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:14 am

Meanwhile, 10 years ahead BWFC are haggling over compensation to appoint Barrow FC's manager
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jtv
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Re: The Chairman

Post by jtv » Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:13 pm

Woonderbah wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:14 am
Meanwhile, 10 years ahead BWFC are haggling over compensation to appoint Barrow FC's manager
I read reports in Malta that they were close to engaging ex-Juventus midfielder and Italian 2006 World Cup winner Mauro Camoranesi

Burnley Ace
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Re: The Chairman

Post by Burnley Ace » Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:17 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:53 pm
Lennon fee - club described it as nominal - transfermarket says £!.5m


Hart fee - transfermart says 3.5m


Wages suggested here as Hart £45k (£4.6m over 2 years) Lennon £35k (£2.7m over 18 months)

https://www.spotrac.com/epl/burnley-f.c/payroll/

so roughly £12m
+ bonuses which would significantly increase their overall pay package.

Quickenthetempo
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Re: The Chairman

Post by Quickenthetempo » Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:20 pm

I don't know if its already been posted but Hendrick was offered an improved contract according to the Athletic.

Burnley Ace
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Re: The Chairman

Post by Burnley Ace » Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:22 pm

jtv wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:13 pm
I read reports in Malta that they were close to engaging ex-Juventus midfielder and Italian 2006 World Cup winner Mauro Camoranesi
He’s certainly well travelled!! Not really sure Tabor Sezana (ground capacity 1,200) in the Slovenian league to the Prem is a realistic move

jtv
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Re: The Chairman

Post by jtv » Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:33 pm

Moving to BWFC is not a move to the Prem though is it?

Chester Perry
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Re: The Chairman

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:47 pm

Burnley Ace wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:17 pm
+ bonuses which would significantly increase their overall pay package.
bonuses are pro rata the appearances we have been led to believe so not that much

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Re: The Chairman

Post by Burnley Ace » Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:31 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:47 pm
bonuses are pro rata the appearances we have been led to believe so not that much
Does being in the match day squad count? Seems a bit harsh on the reserve goalie. I would want my agent to be negotiating a “final league position” bonus in any event.

If it’s only being on the field that gets a Bonus- Dyche has saved us a fortune!!

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Re: The Chairman

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:04 pm

Burnley Ace wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:31 pm
Does being in the match day squad count? Seems a bit harsh on the reserve goalie. I would want my agent to be negotiating a “final league position” bonus in any event.

If it’s only being on the field that gets a Bonus- Dyche has saved us a fortune!!
match day squad probably does count for a keeper as a % of actual appearance (makes sense) - I am utterly convinced (though absolutely no evidence to support it) that Hart had it in his contract that he must be in the matchday squad if fit - which is why the club were happy not to renew and let Peacock-Farrel develop

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Re: The Chairman

Post by Burnley1989 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:06 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:04 pm
match day squad probably does count for a keeper as a % of actual appearance (makes sense) - I am utterly convinced (though absolutely no evidence to support it) that Hart had it in his contract that he must be in the matchday squad if fit - which is why the club were happy not to renew and let Peacock-Farrel develop
Yes you get a bonus for being in the match day squad and a bigger bonus for getting on the field, even 5 minutes got you an extra 2-3k in the championship and that was 7-8 years ago

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Re: The Chairman

Post by Vegas Claret » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:16 pm

you would hope, given that once again Dyche has kept us in the PL on a comparative shoestring budget that the board would have a little more faith to give him a little bit more to make it easier for him - they ask us to show faith......pot - kettle

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Re: The Chairman

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:31 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:16 pm
you would hope, given that once again Dyche has kept us in the PL on a comparative shoestring budget that the board would have a little more faith to give him a little bit more to make it easier for him - they ask us to show faith......pot - kettle
tell me where those funds are going to come from - the last 3 big signings i.e. £10m + (2 signed 2 years ago) probably don't have 50 appearances between them and Jay (the cheapest of the 3 signed this season) probably has more appearances than the other two - that may be part of the concern

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Re: The Chairman

Post by Vegas Claret » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:55 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:31 pm
tell me where those funds are going to come from - the last 3 big signings i.e. £10m + (2 signed 2 years ago) probably don't have 50 appearances between them and Jay (the cheapest of the 3 signed this season) probably has more appearances than the other two - that may be part of the concern
Sorry CP I'm not following your thought process here - can you explain more about what the lack of appearances of players (which players ?) has to do with funds ?

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Re: The Chairman

Post by Giftonsnoidea » Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:47 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:25 pm
I estimate Joe Hart has cost us around £10 million: £3.5 m transfer fee to City + £50k per week + 13.8% ERS NIC for 2 years = £9.6 million. (Don't forget City were paying him the second £50k/week for the final year of his original City contract).

How much did we pay to sign Aaron Lennon? How much were we paying him?

EDIT: I see you've already adjusted £20 million to £14 million. I'm OK with that figure for 2 experienced internationals, even if we haven't seen the best of either of them from earlier in their careers.
I think we have wasted too much money last two seasons on players that don’t have any impact on the team, I can see why Garlick has decided to stop funding such extravagant purchases for little return. We need to get rid of Gibson who was the worst buy of all , we’re looking at £30m wasted at the moment on those 3. As a club we just cannot make so many expensive mistakes and need every million to work exceptionally hard for us. Brownhill looks like we’re finally going in the right direction.

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Re: The Chairman

Post by lakedistrictclaret » Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:52 pm

The thing about Gibson is that he was a decent buy at the time.

Unfortunately for him, Tarks and Ben Mee have not suffered injury, suspension or loss of form.
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DCWat
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Re: The Chairman

Post by DCWat » Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:55 pm

lakedistrictclaret wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:52 pm
The thing about Gibson is that he was a decent buy at the time.

Unfortunately for him, Tarks and Ben Mee have not suffered injury, suspension or loss of form.
It doesn’t seem he has the character we pin so much on. We’d have been as well having a flutter in the foreign market, if our character assessments of more local players are off kilter.

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Re: The Chairman

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:12 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:55 pm
Sorry CP I'm not following your thought process here - can you explain more about what the lack of appearances of players (which players ?) has to do with funds ?
Just playing Devisl Advocate about the fact the Chairman may be thinking that

Gibson - circa £15m + 2 years wages wages for 1 league appearance and now 6 months away from the club on full pay

Vydra - circa £11.5m plus 2 years wages for 7 starts (5 this year) and 11 sub appearances

was a large amount of money not being used on the field when SD was asking for extensions of all those contracts when we were struggling in November/December - opinions on Vydra may have changed now he has been brought into use

Jay has proved his worth this season - though some may feel 6 goals are not enough for his appearances

like many I thought they were good signings - but it is a lot of money for our club that was doing not very much when most, including the manager would say we need new blood in the starting 11

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Re: The Chairman

Post by Vegas Claret » Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:26 pm

Chester Perry wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:12 pm
Just playing Devisl Advocate about the fact the Chairman may be thinking that

Gibson - circa £15m + 2 years wages wages for 1 league appearance and now 6 months away from the club on full pay

Vydra - circa £11.5m plus 2 years wages for 7 starts (5 this year) and 11 sub appearances

was a large amount of money not being used on the field when SD was asking for extensions of all those contracts when we were struggling in November/December - opinions on Vydra may have changed now he has been brought into use

Jay has proved his worth this season - though some may feel 6 goals are not enough for his appearances

like many I thought they were good signings - but it is a lot of money for our club that was doing not very much when most, including the manager would say we need new blood in the starting 11
Agree with Gibson, he's completely ****** himself with his attitude, the Drinkwater thing was a disaster too - Vydra on the other hand has for me taken his opportunity and is now ahead of Barnes (didn't think I would ever say that).

I don't think any of us would suggest going out and paying 30 million for a player is an option, but another couple of Brownhill types around 24 years old for 7-8 million should be well within our reach if they are someone Dyche wants - it's that type of backing that I think he deserves, he's proved time and again he's made some excellent signings - Westwood etc cost pittance. Fergie wasted millions at Utd, Liverpool have wasted hundreds of millions over the years - nobody has a 100% record on transfers
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Re: The Chairman

Post by Giftonsnoidea » Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:29 pm

lakedistrictclaret wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:52 pm
The thing about Gibson is that he was a decent buy at the time.

Unfortunately for him, Tarks and Ben Mee have not suffered injury, suspension or loss of form.
The most worrying thing is the player has buggered off to train at Middlesbrough after another falling out with whoever down here. Let’s not forget Vydra was banished for around 18 months before he got a look in. A worrying trend and I can see why Garlick is reticent to release big funds again.

Dyche has worked much better with limited funds but is frustrated now he’s spending big not hitting the jackpot, so to speak.

Time for Rigg to earn his corn and guide the manager in the right direction and I hope that doesn’t mean to the job centre.

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Re: The Chairman

Post by bfcjg » Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:31 pm

The Drinkwater fiasco must have raised eyebrows at the board meetings, he cannot say he wasn't backed especially when the football world to a man apart from one man, thought the drunken brawl paid for with our hard earned money should have resulted in him being sent back to Chelsea. Also signing Wells whilst recuperating from an ankle injury was bizarre in the extreme, but he was backed.
Best manager ever in my Claret lifetime but he isn't faultless with money.
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Chester Perry
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Re: The Chairman

Post by Chester Perry » Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:55 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:26 pm
Agree with Gibson, he's completely ****** himself with his attitude, the Drinkwater thing was a disaster too - Vydra on the other hand has for me taken his opportunity and is now ahead of Barnes (didn't think I would ever say that).

I don't think any of us would suggest going out and paying 30 million for a player is an option, but another couple of Brownhill types around 24 years old for 7-8 million should be well within our reach if they are someone Dyche wants - it's that type of backing that I think he deserves, he's proved time and again he's made some excellent signings - Westwood etc cost pittance. Fergie wasted millions at Utd, Liverpool have wasted hundreds of millions over the years - nobody has a 100% record on transfers
I don't disagree with anything you have said and the chairman would love a few players at the value and age (when we bought them) of Taylor. Westwood, JBG, Tarks

The one area we have done consistently well in is Goalkeepers - When you look at Heaton, Pope, Hart and Peacock-Farrell that is a hell of a selection for probably less than £10m - though I suspect having Hart caused more disruption overall than it was worth.

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Re: The Chairman

Post by Wokingclaret » Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:08 am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53200110

Burnley must stretch finances.......Dyche

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Re: The Chairman

Post by Wokingclaret » Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:16 am

Hell of a time to ask.....

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Re: The Chairman

Post by summitclaret » Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:43 am

Those comments to the BBC look a bit ominous to me. Like Woking said, his timing is odd. I can understand Sean's frustration over the last 2 years, many fans have had it about centre midfield. Maybe Sean is forgetting the costs of Hart, Gibson and Vydra that have hardly been justified. Although, Vydra is looking really good now that he is getting on the pitch.

Jeff was good for us, but surely not worth such a fuss.

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Re: The Chairman

Post by bfcjg » Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:59 am

There is a fine line between stretching finances and doing a Bolton,Portsmouth Sunderland etc etc. If our money ran out Dyche would go but we would still be here attempting to tidy up the mess.
Perhaps it is in our DNA to be cautious after the years we spent in the fourth and third divisions which was due to living beyond our means.
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