Relegation Battle

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huw.Y.WattfromWare
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Relegation Battle

Post by huw.Y.WattfromWare » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:19 pm

Remaining fixtures. No dates yet for B’mouth v Saints and ManU v WHU. So I’ve popped them in before the final set in stone fixtures.
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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by JohnDearyMe » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:24 pm

I was surprised how little of a fight Watford put up tonight after we went one up

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by Rileybobs » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:27 pm

Bournemouth's run in and lack of bottle should see them join the bottom two teams who are out of their depths. West Ham and Watford should both just have enough.

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by jedi_master » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:28 pm

Villa are gone based on that run in, in my opinion.

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by Nonayforever » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:32 pm

Norwich are already gone really, and looking at that run in - I can't see Villa getting more than 3 points from their remaining games, likewise Bournemouth - a tough run in.

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by ElectroClaret » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:34 pm

Yeah, Norwich Villa and Bournemouth.

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by tiger76 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:52 pm

I'd rule Norwich out, they're gone, as for the rest there's some mighty tasty 6 pointers looming.

West Ham-Watford

West Ham-Villa

Are the 2 that stand out as winner takes all games.

Of the run-in's i'd say Watford have the best on paper, you can see them picking up 3 wins from that list, Southampton, Norwich & Newcastle at home should yield points, and they might even nick a point or two from their other games.

West Ham should just have enough to get over the line with those fixtures, but you do wonder if they've got the mentality for a relegation fight.

Bournemouth & Villa have horrendous run-in's, and they'll both do well to survive from where they are.

I notice you've omitted Brighton, and i'd tend to agree they should have enough of a buffer, but if they hit the skids again, they could still be dragged into trouble, the great thing for them is none of the bottom 5 look capable of putting wins on the board, so they should be OK this season at least.

I'm just :D when can sit back and watch the fun unfold, after the Chelsea defeat it looked ominous for the Clarets, but we've hit form as have Newcastle & Southampton at precisely the right moment, you do have to go back to Pope's penalty save from Vardy as the pivotal moment in our season, from that point on we've gone from strength to strength.

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by Vegas Claret » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:03 pm

Norwich. Villa and Bournemouth will drop

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by ksrclaret » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:07 pm

Bournemouth need to beat Newcastle to stand even the slightest chance I would suggest. Lose that and they're probably gone.

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by ClaretMov » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:22 pm

West ham v Aston villa last game of the season, winner takes all...wow could be a good one

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by MACCA » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:24 pm

Shame 20 bonus points cant be awarded to Norwich, any 3 from the other 4 would really make me smile.
I quite like how Norwich have gone about it, and they've a decent set of fans.
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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by bfcmik » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:25 pm

ClaretMov wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:22 pm
West ham v Aston villa last game of the season, winner takes all...wow could be a good one
Even better if a draw sees them both relegated!

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by houseboy » Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:12 pm

Still hoping for a ‘Ammers’ relegation. Perfect end to a season for me.
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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by huw.Y.WattfromWare » Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:54 pm

After today.
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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by tiger76 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:36 pm

Villa are staring down the barrel after today, i can't see them picking up many points from those games, they just don't have a goal threat, and if you don't score goals, you'll struggle to win games at this level, 2 goals in 4 games since the restart, that's nowhere good enough.

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by tim_noone » Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:46 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:36 pm
Villa are staring down the barrel after today, i can't see them picking up many points from those games, they just don't have a goal threat, and if you don't score goals, you'll struggle to win games at this level, 2 goals in 4 games since the restart, that's nowhere good enough.
Let's get Jack on Board..

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by ElectroClaret » Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:02 pm

If Villa shape themselves, the last day match with West Ham could be crucial.
However, I fear they might well be gone before then.

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by nil_desperandum » Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:08 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:52 pm

I notice you've omitted Brighton, and i'd tend to agree they should have enough of a buffer, but if they hit the skids again, they could still be dragged into trouble, the great thing for them is none of the bottom 5 look capable of putting wins on the board, so they should be OK this season at least.
Brighton fans won't believe it yet, but 6 points clear with a much better GD- they're safe.
Neither Villa nor Bournemouth will pick up another 7 points from those fixtures, and there must be some doubt that WHU or Watford will catch them either, but I guess those 2 could pick up between 6 and 9 points.
Somewhat surprisingly it looks like 33 points will be enough this time, so on that basis we've been safe since we won at Southampton on Feb 15th!
(All those sleepless nights!)
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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by claptrappers_union » Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:15 pm

Winning at Southampton was when I thought we might be ok. Especially with Vydra making his mark

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by LeadBelly » Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:22 pm

Although Norwich are possibly as good as any of those others now, they're too far adrift & it's difficult to see an escape for them.

Looks like Hammers have an easier fixture list than any of the others and should have enough to stay just clear of the carnage.

Not much between Villa, Bournemouth and Watford but Hornets have that extra point in the bag + the best goal-difference (and 4 out of 6 remaining fixtures at home) so I think they'll scrape it OK.

Norwich 27/28 points; Villa 30 points, Bournemouth c 32 points. WHU and Watford safe on 33-35 points.

(B&HA have tough fixtures but probably only need a couple of draws to stay clear. Unfortunately I think they'll be OK by the time they play us, if not- I hope we send them down).

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:26 pm

Bournemouth can score goals. And have team spirit.

Villa can’t score and West Ham have no spirit. I think and hope Bournemouth will get out of it.
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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by tiger76 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:28 pm

Shame we play WHU so soon, it'd have been great to send them down, OH! well we can still damage their prospects i suppose, the happy Hammers might get lucky, in any other season they'd be in trouble, but the porous form of Bournemouth, Villa & Watford gives them a chance of sneaking out of the drop zone, what's amazed me is how bad the bottom 6 have been since returning, in total they've played 14 games between them, and have the sum total of 1 victory, and that was Brighton's injury time win over Arsenal, and they've collected the meagre total of 7/42 points, you'd expect a least a couple of them to rally, but that's not been the case, and hence why there's still a bottleneck, Norwich expected at the foot of the table.

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by HunterST_BFC » Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:29 pm

I'd accept us "throwing one in" against Norwich if it miraculously kept them up at West Hams expense.

Sadly for Norwich other clubs would need to do the same for them.

Can't stand the club.

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by Burnley1989 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:32 pm

MACCA wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:24 pm
Shame 20 bonus points cant be awarded to Norwich, any 3 from the other 4 would really make me smile.
I quite like how Norwich have gone about it, and they've a decent set of fans.
With you there mate! Just a pain in the arse of an away game. I’ve big respect for sheff Utd this year with the way they’ve gone about it as well. I honestly believe despite what clubs say about our style of play, which whilst it isn’t always great, it’s still enjoyable half the time around those clubs we can compete against, with odd surprise thrown in, I think their fans would take it! Almost all clubs say they wouldn’t Take the ‘negative’ football, but they would. I’ve had a beer tonight but I’ll be gutted the day Sean goes, more so than any manager in the 25 years I’ve been watching.

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by tiger76 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:16 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:26 pm
Bournemouth can score goals. And have team spirit.

Villa can’t score and West Ham have no spirit. I think and hope Bournemouth will get out of it.
I can't believe this myth about Bournemouth being a free-scoring team is still being pedalled, they've amassed 29 goals in 31 PL games this season, and their main goal threat Callum Wilson is going thorough a goal drought right now, unless he starts firing, they're going to struggle, Ryan Fraser isn't available for the rest of the season, and Philip Billing went off injured against Wolves, a match where Bournemouth failed to register an effort on target, they were similarly poor against Palace a few days prior, and they've failed to gain a point on the road this year, if they're going to survive they'll need to put points on the board in their homes games starting next week against Newcastle, because i can't see them picking up anything on their 2 trips to Manchester, or on the final day at Goodison, the saving grace for the Cherries is their 4 home games are eminently winnable, Newcastle, Tottenham, Leicester & Southampton, even 7 points from those fixtures might just be enough to ensure their top flight status, but they'll have to put 3 points on the board against Newcastle.

Norwich are a given, and Villa are struggling for goals, now Grealish isn't netting, it could well boil down to a WH-Villa battle on the final day, i can see both Brighton & Watford just escaping, and it's not impossible both Villa & West Ham could fall through the trap door, at least now Leeds are coming up they'll both have claims to be the biggest club in the Championship.

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by ElectroClaret » Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:26 pm

Whoever takes the drop, the old forty-points-for-safety maxim is now officially dead. Has been for a few seasons now.

As stated further up the thread, 33 will most likely keep a team up this term.

Points required for survival seems to be getting fewer every year.

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by dsr » Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:35 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:36 pm
Villa are staring down the barrel after today, i can't see them picking up many points from those games, they just don't have a goal threat, and if you don't score goals, you'll struggle to win games at this level, 2 goals in 4 games since the restart, that's nowhere good enough.
That's where a lot of these clubs have gone wrong. They've bought into the "you must play pretty football or the fans will be unhappy" myth, and forgotten that if you play "pretty football" but don't score, the fans will not be happy.

The way Burnley play, we can play well and win, but we can also win by playing badly - simply because we have a strong defence and can always grab a goal. Sides like Bournemouth have to play well to win, and they don't play well enough, often enough.

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by tiger76 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:39 pm

ElectroClaret wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:26 pm
Whoever takes the drop, the old forty-points-for-safety maxim is now officially dead. Has been for a few seasons now.

As stated further up the thread, 33 will most likely keep a team up this term.

Points required for survival seems to be getting fewer every year.
Well if the top 6 are piling on the wins, then it stands to reason that they'll be less points to distribute between the rest, so yes the survival target will subsequently be lower, the great advantage we have is we tend to win most of the 6 pointers when they roll around, that doesn't half take the pressure off, and it leaves the lower sides with a bigger mountain to climb, the only game this season against a lower half side, where i'd say we didn't perform was Villa at home, the rest of those vital games we've at worst nicked draws, Brighton away springs to mind, or even a victory Bournemouth away, and this is the main reason we're comfortably mid-table, it's a habit we've had for a good few seasons now, and it's a good habit to have.
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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by Vegas Claret » Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:51 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:26 pm
Bournemouth can score goals. And have team spirit.

Villa can’t score and West Ham have no spirit. I think and hope Bournemouth will get out of it.
I've watched both their games where spirit has been virtually non existent and their run in is pretty horrendous, add to that Callum Wilson is banned for the next two games I'm not confident they will stay up - i hope they do as we do well against them though

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by ElectroClaret » Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:59 pm

I'd dearly love West Ham to get the bullet to fcuk up the porno Daves.

Be well funny.

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:13 am

tiger76 wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:16 pm
I can't believe this myth about Bournemouth being a free-scoring team is still being pedalled, they've amassed 29 goals in 31 PL games this season, and their main goal threat Callum Wilson is going thorough a goal drought right now, unless he starts firing, they're going to struggle, Ryan Fraser isn't available for the rest of the season, and Philip Billing went off injured against Wolves, a match where Bournemouth failed to register an effort on target, they were similarly poor against Palace a few days prior, and they've failed to gain a point on the road this year, if they're going to survive they'll need to put points on the board in their homes games starting next week against Newcastle, because i can't see them picking up anything on their 2 trips to Manchester, or on the final day at Goodison, the saving grace for the Cherries is their 4 home games are eminently winnable, Newcastle, Tottenham, Leicester & Southampton, even 7 points from those fixtures might just be enough to ensure their top flight status, but they'll have to put 3 points on the board against Newcastle.

Norwich are a given, and Villa are struggling for goals, now Grealish isn't netting, it could well boil down to a WH-Villa battle on the final day, i can see both Brighton & Watford just escaping, and it's not impossible both Villa & West Ham could fall through the trap door, at least now Leeds are coming up they'll both have claims to be the biggest club in the Championship.
I don’t think they’re Barcelona.

But I’d sooner have Wilson, king, brooks than many of the other attacking players at other clubs.

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by FCBurnley » Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:29 am

Burnley will NOT be relegated and I don’t care a flying fig about the rest UTC

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by KRBFC » Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:38 am

West Ham should be too good to go down but that’s not how it works and they’re absolutely shoite.

Norwich are gone.

Villa lack a goal scorer and a defence.

Watford are a good side, surprised they’re still down there.

I don’t know what has happened at Bournemouth, a lot of injuries to key players throughout the season and imploded, scary looking run in too.

West Ham, Villa and Norwich for me

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by Spijed » Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:53 am

ElectroClaret wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:26 pm
Whoever takes the drop, the old forty-points-for-safety maxim is now officially dead. Has been for a few seasons now.

As stated further up the thread, 33 will most likely keep a team up this term.

Points required for survival seems to be getting fewer every year.
I think the season we went down with 30 points in 2010 was the lowest for a team in 18th, thus anyone who got 31 would have survived that year.

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by nil_desperandum » Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:51 am

cricketfieldclarets wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:13 am
I don’t think they’re Barcelona.

But I’d sooner have Wilson, king, brooks than many of the other attacking players at other clubs.
Problem they have though is that Wilson is now suspended for next 2 games, King limped off after the clash with Cahill against Palace.
(he is said to be "touch and go" for next fixture), and Brooks has hardly played for 12 months and in both games so far was subbed after an hour.
Add to that Fraser is unavailable, and Francis and Daniels are both out and probably not back this season.
And Billings appears to be struggling too, having limped off against Wolves following on from an injury lay-off.

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:31 am

nil_desperandum wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:51 am
Problem they have though is that Wilson is now suspended for next 2 games, King limped off after the clash with Cahill against Palace.
(he is said to be "touch and go" for next fixture), and Brooks has hardly played for 12 months and in both games so far was subbed after an hour.
Add to that Fraser is unavailable, and Francis and Daniels are both out and probably not back this season.
And Billings appears to be struggling too, having limped off against Wolves following on from an injury lay-off.
Fair enough. Haven’t really followed them closely.

On the plus side they do have Solanke...

Oh how people laughed when they signed Defoe!

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by Stalbansclaret » Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:28 pm

Jordan Ibe £15M, Dominic Solanke £19M and a 3 year deal at £100Kpw for a 34 year-old Jermaine Defoe..... Bournemouth deserve to be down there based on judgement like this.
With Norwich effectively dead either Villa or Bournemouth need to buck up if the dream of a West Ham relegation is going to happen. Watford were lousy against us but I think are probably less bad than the others down there.

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by tiger76 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:46 pm

Stalbansclaret wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:28 pm
Jordan Ibe £15M, Dominic Solanke £19M and a 3 year deal at £100Kpw for a 34 year-old Jermaine Defoe..... Bournemouth deserve to be down there based on judgement like this.
With Norwich effectively dead either Villa or Bournemouth need to buck up if the dream of a West Ham relegation is going to happen. Watford were lousy against us but I think are probably less bad than the others down there.
Yes Eddie's transfers in the past couple of seasons certainly deserves scrutiny, Ibe and Solanke wow what a waste of money on that pair, and people think Sean is poor at recruitment, Defoe's found his level in the sweaty sock league.

Bournemouth and Villa have been unfortunate with injuries to key players, but in life and football you have to overcome adversity, i note Dean Smith was moaning about the hectic schedule after their defeat to Wolves, well Dean it is a busy period for everyone, you've got to roll up your sleeves and get on with it, i don't like managers who come out with excuses in interviews, it gives their players an easy out for not performing.

Out of the 4, Watford you sense have the bottle to nick a couple of results, they played ok at the Turf, and on another day could have gone home with a decent point, also they've got a few older heads that will be vital in the run-in, Dawson, Deeney, Foster, i'm not sure either Bournemouth or Villa have that ability to dig a gritty 1-0 out, but Brighton & Watford do, and that's why they'll be ok just, West Ham must be thanking their lucky stars that they're still in the mix, but they've also looked poor in their 2 games since the restart, and where are their goals coming from,i genuinely can't split Bournemouth, Villa, West Ham, and that last day showdown between the Hammers and Villa is shaping up to be decisive.

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by huw.Y.WattfromWare » Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:19 pm

I’m always surprised when teams go for a young keeper over experience. Of course there have been truly great ones who were obvious from a young age. Bournemouth going for Ramsdale shocked me. Another great shot stopper, many are, but there is far more to keeping than the saves. With Boruc still in the house and Begovic loaned to AC Milan a poor decision.

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by dermotdermot » Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:15 pm

I’d like to see on of Watford or West Ham go down but I fear that it will be Bournemouth. Even if they get a result against Newcastle, their remaining fixtures look pretty grim. A shame because I always enjoy going there. Easy to get to for me as I live there.

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:20 pm

dermotdermot wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:15 pm
A shame because I always enjoy going there. Easy to get to for me as I live there.
Selfish :D

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by dermotdermot » Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:32 pm

Not at all.

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by FCBurnley » Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:53 pm

I believe that City’s win at Newcastle today means that a top 8 finish will qualify for Europe. Makes our game at Palace a 6 pointer !!!

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by huw.Y.WattfromWare » Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:42 pm

FCBurnley wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:53 pm
I believe that City’s win at Newcastle today means that a top 8 finish will qualify for Europe. Makes our game at Palace a 6 pointer !!!
Only if Citys Euro ban is upheld and Arsenal don’t win the cup and finish outside the 8.

Liverpool....CL
Man C........X
Leicester.....CL
Chelsea.......CL
Man U.........CL
Wolves........EL
Spurs..........EL
CLARETS......EL

tiger76
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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by tiger76 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:32 pm

huw.Y.WattfromWare wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:42 pm
Only if Citys Euro ban is upheld and Arsenal don’t win the cup and finish outside the 8.

Liverpool....CL
Man C........X
Leicester.....CL
Chelsea.......CL
Man U.........CL
Wolves........EL
Spurs..........EL
CLARETS......EL
What happens if Man Utd/Wolves win the EL? But finish outside the top 5 in the PL, normally that would be a CL place, but i'm fairly sure they've changed the rules now and countries can't have 5 teams in the CL, so which takes precedence, domestic league placing or actually winning the EL?. I can't see us finishing 8th anyway, but that might affect the other teams.

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by dsr » Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:15 am

tiger76 wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:32 pm
What happens if Man Utd/Wolves win the EL? But finish outside the top 5 in the PL, normally that would be a CL place, but i'm fairly sure they've changed the rules now and countries can't have 5 teams in the CL, so which takes precedence, domestic league placing or actually winning the EL?. I can't see us finishing 8th anyway, but that might affect the other teams.
England still gets 7 European places. 7th or 8th will qualify however the 7 places are shared out, as long as no-one below 8th/9th wins the FA Cup or Europa League.
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FactualFrank
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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by FactualFrank » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:18 pm

I've just been having a look at the remaining fixtures and current standing.

Villa are second from bottom - have played a game more than Bournemouth and West Ham - and have the hardest remaining fixtures in the Premier League (on paper):
liverpool - MAN U - PALACE - everton - ARSENAL - WEST HAM

For me, Villa are down.

So for my final spot, it's between Bournemouth, West Ham and Watford.

I'll go with Bournemouth as think they have tougher remaining games than West Ham and Watford.

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by Colburn_Claret » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:27 pm

I'd agree Bournemouth, Watford or West Ham, but they are all so shocking I think we should relegate 4 :D

Looking at that form table since the Chelsea defeat, West Ham have been ridiculously bad.

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by tiger76 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:35 pm

FactualFrank wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:18 pm
I've just been having a look at the remaining fixtures and current standing.

Villa are second from bottom - have played a game more than Bournemouth and West Ham - and have the hardest remaining fixtures in the Premier League (on paper):
liverpool - MAN U - PALACE - everton - ARSENAL - WEST HAM

For me, Villa are down.

So for my final spot, it's between Bournemouth, West Ham and Watford.

I'll go with Bournemouth as think they have tougher remaining games than West Ham and Watford.
I haven't looked at the remaining fixtures for a few days, but i'd say if Bournemouth don't get 3 points this evening at home to Newcastle they're going to struggle, Villa are in danger of being cut adrift unless they start picking up points, despite last night's reverse i can't see Brighton getting dragged into trouble, they also have a great chance of 3 points at the weekend when they travel to Norwich, a win there, and they'll be virtually safe, i can't see 2 out of Watford, West Ham, Bournemouth, or Villa winning another 3 games, and i'll discount Norwich from the equation, as they have too much ground to make up.

That West Ham-Villa game looms large on the horizon, and given the present standings it's shaping up to be a winner takes all clash.

Bournemouth's issues are the amount of injuries and unavailable players, they have almost a full first XI not available for various reasons, and that's tough to overcome in a relegation battle.

At this moment i'd go for Norwich, Villa, and Bournemouth to drop, but it's so tight that just one win for anybody down there, and the picture changes massively, it'll come down to nerve, and i can see Watford having enough to just survive, the other 3 all have doubts over their mentality.

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Re: Relegation Battle

Post by FactualFrank » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:36 pm

The form table has Bournemouth bottom, with Villa second from bottom having played a game more.

Watford seem to be the team least likely to drop, out of Watford, Bournemouth, West Ham.

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