Investor

[ClaretTony]

I seem to remember Cotterill getting poorer results once he got a reasonable amount of money once Flood came on board.
Money and managers do not alway produce

Not really. We were in the middle of the bad run and he’d lost those two key players to injury.

[claptrappers_union]

Change in any business will affect the results, remember when Kilby came in and released money for to Stan to bring in Davis, Mellon and Branch, we still got hammered by Gillingham and Man City. We were in freefall but he stuck with Stan though, not many owners would have.

[Chester Perry]

I think with some good financial backing Dyche could easily take us to the next level. Would love to see it happen.

I would love somebody to explain to me just what the "next level" is - I am pretty sure that such a vague term means different things to different people - so please, I want to be informed as to what you mean and then we can give our thoughts on your assertion, Oh and please also give a valuation on what "some good financial backing" means - he has had more financial backing than any manager in our history spending well over a £100m - and to my mind some rather well with it too

[DCWat]

I seem to remember Cotterill getting poorer results once he got a reasonable amount of money once Flood came on board.
Money and managers do not alway produce

I’d have a hell of a lot more faith in Dyche being able to manage an increase in available funds.

[claretandy]

I would love somebody to explain to me just what the "next level" is - I am pretty sure that such a vague term means different things to different people - so please, I want to be informed as to what you mean and then we can give our thoughts on your assertion, Oh and please also give a valuation on what "some good financial backing" means - he has had more financial backing than any manager in our history spending well over a £100m - and to my mind some rather well with it too

To me it means regularly challenging the top 7, and going far in the cups, and no longer talking about having no money.

[Spijed]

To me it means regularly challenging the top 7, and going far in the cups, and no longer talking about having no money.

When you've got Wolves, Leicester, Everton, Southampton, Villa and maybe even West Ham & Newcastle with the correct leadership all capable of the same then it doesn't leave us much room for error.

As we've done better than many clubs who've outspent us in recent times it shows that more money means sod all in terms of success.

[ClaretTony]

When you've got Wolves, Leicester, Everton, Southampton, Villa and maybe even West Ham & Newcastle with the correct leadership all capable of the same then it doesn't leave us much room for error.

As we've done better than many clubs who've outspent us in recent times it shows that more money means sod all in terms of success.

More money definitely doesn’t mean sod all.

[Danieljwaterhouse]

[*]j

Have to be concerns if there is someone coming in from outside in terms of having no connection with the club. There are so many examples of things going wrong. For every Man City, Chelsea or Leicester there are so many where it’s gone wrong. All seems well now at Liverpool but the previous owners almost took them out of business. Many clubs with a history of problems with owners, and not just foreign owners either.

It will be a nervous time of and when it happens, that’s for sure. Some fans will welcome it with open arms because we’ve got ourselves in a position (mid table in the Premier League) where it will be very difficult to move on.

I am very much in the concerned group.

You’re right there are many many examples of poorly run clubs. But here you’ve got:

An investor/sale that is buying it to ‘compete’ with the other large state/family run enterprises in the Middle East. To do this they have to be have a successful and competitive team and club.

This is INITIALLY a loss leading enterprise to demonstrate that they too should be at the top table, and long term that will/are a power in that area.

It’s essentially a regional cockfight as Man City, PSG, and so on are proving, we’re potentially about to jump into that pool along with Newcastle.

The Glazers are a different breed, good owners, but they balance their returns against success. United are being bleed currently, to finance Tom Brady, The GOAT of his generation at Tamper.

Then you get the Poundland version of the Glazers, the VENKYS and we’re all happy they came into the football landscape.

Throw in the Eastern state run teams, and you’ve got a global power grab that’s played out in front of billions for Entertainment.

[Danieljwaterhouse]

When you've got Wolves, Leicester, Everton, Southampton, Villa and maybe even West Ham & Newcastle with the correct leadership all capable of the same then it doesn't leave us much room for error.

As we've done better than many clubs who've outspent us in recent times it shows that more money means sod all in terms of success.

On the pitch I’d agree, but looking at the investment in infrastructure, community ventures and commercial power they’ve massively outstripped us.

Stop thinking of the club as on the pitch, we pay money to watch entertainment, and we cheer the current incumbents of the shirts the players wear, but the club needs to increase its global output and grab to ensure we are sustainable at the top table for decades to come.

[scouseclaret]

Im pretty sceptical about the takeover talk. If I was an investor looking to buy an English football club, I think I’d look at a small-town club who’d finished top-10 in the PL two out or the last three years as top-of-the-market stuff. The level of investment required to “take us to the next level” is huge, massively high risk and questionable as to how sustainable it could be given the size of our supporter base. I’d be thinking far better to buy a big Championship club - Sheff Wed or someone like- and invest in getting them promoted. Still risky of course, but with plenty of upside. With us, the risks seem heavily skewed to the downside.

That said, I presume Garlick and the Board will want to cash-out at some point, at least partially. I just hope they’re as careful as people say they are going to be when considering who to sell to.

One final thing though, if you’re a minority shareholder hoping to get a small slice of the cake if the day does come, I wouldn’t hold your breath. I think we’ll find that, in the event of a takeover, our shares will be rendered worthless after the Board stripped us of our voting rights a few years ago...

[ClaretTony]

Im pretty sceptical about the takeover talk. If I was an investor looking to buy an English football club, I think I’d look at a small-town club who’d finished top-10 in the PL two out or the last three years as top-of-the-market stuff. The level of investment required to “take us to the next level” is huge, massively high risk and questionable as to how sustainable it could be given the size of our supporter base. I’d be thinking far better to buy a big Championship club - Sheff Wed or someone like- and invest in getting them promoted. Still risky of course, but with plenty of upside. With us, the risks seem heavily skewed to the downside.

That said, I presume Garlick and the Board will want to cash-out at some point, at least partially. I just hope they’re as careful as people say they are going to be when considering who to sell to.

One final thing though, if you’re a minority shareholder hoping to get a small slice of the cake if the day does come, I wouldn’t hold your breath. I think we’ll find that, in the event of a takeover, our shares will be rendered worthless after the Board stripped us of our voting rights a few years ago...

I find it very difficult to disagree with any of that other than thinking that our shares have already been rendered worthless.

[Danieljwaterhouse]

If you’re looking to buy a club thats for sale, that’s got a guaranteed income, is debt free, has demonstrated it’s ability to sit at the top table repeatedly, has saleable assets, a world class training facility, and is close enough to Manchester and the leafy suburbs that means you could attract quality players then Burnley is pretty much your only choice.

And a bloody good choice it is!

We could grow to meet the investment, sadly it will be at a cost to Accrington, Fleetwood, Preston, Blackburn etc.

[claretandy]

Also, next level is redeveloping the ground, to have world class facilities and room for more corporate hospitality.

[Danieljwaterhouse]

I find it very difficult to disagree with any of that other than thinking that our shares have already been rendered worthless.

You’re looking at the club as a football club that is contained in the pitch.

We’re about to see a new industrial revolution in the North, Manchester has eaten Leeds and now is the capital (financial and cultural) of the new Northern Power house.

We sit in prime position within that powerhouse, with an authority that may well become devolved from Westminster and with all the trappings that come with that.

The club is about to undergo a transformation, the area is transforming, we’re in prime place to profit from this.

It’s a business not an entertainment factory

[Danieljwaterhouse]

Also, next level is redeveloping the ground, to have world class facilities and room for more corporate hospitality.

This is my opinion, not something I’ve discussed, seen or been told as part of the deal:

This is a sticking point and if the cricket club won’t move, and the compulsory purchase orders won’t be granted, we will be moving!

[dsr]

the Board stripped us of our voting rights a few years ago...

Link? Someone on here a few months ago was accusing the board of posting false documents on Companies House website. Was it you?

It's one vote per share.

https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/docu ... 505b2cfdfe

[redcloud203]

an increase in shareholder equity can only increase the net assets / financial standing of the club . in these uncertain times that must be a positive as as I think will be an inevitable restructuring of football / all sports following covid . The more financial resources the club has the better in my personal opinion.

[ClaretTony]

Link? Someone on here a few months ago was accusing the board of posting false documents on Companies House website. Was it you?

It's one vote per share.

Is it really one vote per share or is it one vote per voting share?

[aggi]

How much investment is needed?

City have spent £1 billion ish under Pep.
Everton have spent a good few hundred million since their new owner rocked up.

Villa spent over £100 million last summer and only just survived whilst Fulham went down after spending a similar amount the year before.

It's all well and good wanting investment and money to be spent but it needs to be with the right manager and a board with an agreed vision.

This is something to consider. If we're to become a premier league fixture we're not looking at spending tens of millions, we're looking at hundreds of millions in the next five years or so. Even that wouldn't take us much beyond the level of Bournemouth in terms of spending.

[Chester Perry]

Is it really one vote per share or is it one vote per voting share?

That may come down to if you have shares in the holding company or not

[clarethomer]

Money doesn't equate success and the fabric of the club is built on the right personalities coming in who have the right attitude and that I would never want to change.

Problem is that the limited pool of players is more limited by our finances, so having someone who can allow us to stretch the finances to do this would be taking us to the next level imo.

It's not about revolution - challenging champions league places but evolution where maybe we are seen as a contender for the euros each year rather than relegation. You don't get that by having more money so its about evolution of having the man at the helm in SD and giving him a few more quid and gently relaxing some of the financial restraints he has currently.

I do not want to do a Villa or Everton where they spunk £100m and not really show the return for that. Arguably - if fans are ever going to return to the grounds, I'd rather they spunk £100m on new stands and improving the corporate and facilities at the ground to attract more people to watch us.

[ClaretTony]

That may come down to if you have shares in the holding company or not

All shares are in the holding company aren’t they which solely owns the original company.

[dandeclaret]

I seem to remember Cotterill getting poorer results once he got a reasonable amount of money once Flood came on board.
Money and managers do not alway produce

Is somebody really comparing Cotterill to Dyche?

Hilarious. One is the best manager in many people's lifetimes..... The other is Steve Cotterill

One went 23 games undefeated, the other went 19 games without winning a game.

[claptrappers_union]

This is my opinion, not something I’ve discussed, seen or been told as part of the deal:

This is a sticking point and if the cricket club won’t move, and the compulsory purchase orders won’t be granted, we will be moving!

The club cant move really, the land isn't worth moving for, the club would have to purchase new land so you're looking at millions before even laying a brick. It's not worth it.

[COBBLE]

There could be an interesting stand off. If the Cricket Club believed that the club would move they might well sell as I suspect a fair slice of its income is from parking and the bar on match days. Anyone care to estimate what it might be?

[burnleymik]

I would love somebody to explain to me just what the "next level" is - I am pretty sure that such a vague term means different things to different people - so please, I want to be informed as to what you mean and then we can give our thoughts on your assertion, Oh and please also give a valuation on what "some good financial backing" means - he has had more financial backing than any manager in our history spending well over a £100m - and to my mind some rather well with it too

Next level, IMO, is a regular top 10 finish, with the ability to play more entertaining football. As for a valuation, who knows, just the ability to be able to strengthen all areas of the teams with the players he wants to work with, rather than be so heavily constrained by wage ceilings and transfer funds available, whilst not pushing the club into heavy debt.

As for your last point, I don't remember implying he hadn't spent the money well. Do you feel informed now? You realise it's about opinion, right?

[ClaretTony]

There could be an interesting stand off. If the Cricket Club believed that the club would move they might well sell as I suspect a fair slice of its income is from parking and the bar on match days. Anyone care to estimate what it might be?

The cricket club benefit hugely from being next door to the football club. It gives them, or it did until March, an income that none of the other Lancs League clubs can get.

[Local cricketer]

Great thread this and ties in with what I've been told.

The Egyptian will be arriving on the first hs2 service

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Im pretty sceptical about the takeover talk. If I was an investor looking to buy an English football club, I think I’d look at a small-town club who’d finished top-10 in the PL two out or the last three years as top-of-the-market stuff. The level of investment required to “take us to the next level” is huge, massively high risk and questionable as to how sustainable it could be given the size of our supporter base. I’d be thinking far better to buy a big Championship club - Sheff Wed or someone like- and invest in getting them promoted. Still risky of course, but with plenty of upside. With us, the risks seem heavily skewed to the downside.

That said, I presume Garlick and the Board will want to cash-out at some point, at least partially. I just hope they’re as careful as people say they are going to be when considering who to sell to.

One final thing though, if you’re a minority shareholder hoping to get a small slice of the cake if the day does come, I wouldn’t hold your breath. I think we’ll find that, in the event of a takeover, our shares will be rendered worthless after the Board stripped us of our voting rights a few years ago...

Sheff Wed need a new ground, or massive redevelopment of theirs.
Massive investment in squad, a top manager and probably money for their training facilities and youth set up.

You could apply most of those requirements to any number of championship clubs.

The money it would cost to buy Burnley would be a fraction of the cost.

[Chester Perry]

Next level, IMO, is a regular top 10 finish, with the ability to play more entertaining football. As for a valuation, who knows, just the ability to be able to strengthen all areas of the teams with the players he wants to work with, rather than be so heavily constrained by wage ceilings and transfer funds available, whilst not pushing the club into heavy debt.

As for your last point, I don't remember implying he hadn't spent the money well. Do you feel informed now? You realise it's about opinion, right?

Actually an opinion is something offered with qualitive information to substantiate it - otherwise it is just nonsensical noise and hot air

and from what you have described as the next level, it could be where we already are - would you say 2 out of 3 seasons with a top 10 finish is regular (once every 100 years would be regular too by the way, that is why I was asking for more precise information to understand what was being asked for).

Many would say we have the "ability to play entertaining football" to though I suspect you want that all the time, and of course "entertaining" is a subjective rather than objective notion.

The club also make as much funds as possible for the manager to strengthen the team as he deems (the restriction being they do not want to go into debt and haven't, they have reduced the margins of profitability to help in that objective.

so having taken everything into account - and in respect of your final question, I will say that no I am not yet informed of what it is that is being asked for.

[ewanrob]

I think with some good financial backing Dyche could easily take us to the next level. Would love to see it happen.

I want the investment, but not sure we can ever go a level above where weve just finished. The investment is needed to cement that top half place...and not go into each season relegation favs.... additional investment has to be spent wisely and if there's a bad signing it doesnt effect us as the Gibson one has..

[aggi]

Is it really one vote per share or is it one vote per voting share?

There's only one class of share. All shares are voting shares.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I want the investment, but not sure we can ever go a level above where weve just finished. The investment is needed to cement that top half place...and not go into each season relegation favs.... additional investment has to be spent wisely and if there's a bad signing it doesnt effect us as the Gibson one has..

In what way has that signing effected us?
We didn't need him, nor have we missed him.

[ClaretTony]

There's only one class of share. All shares are voting shares.

There was something said a while ago that very much contradicted that. Not as though it matters, it’s a good few years since we even had an AGM.

[DCWat]

This thread is an interesting and intriguing read. The comments relating to investment outside of football and in the local area, especially so.

On face value, being able to grab onto the coat tails of the huge investment in Manchester, makes sense. That would presumably take some vision and massive long term investment.

I know nothing about other ‘silicon valley’ type projects in the UK but whatever the option, it could be fantastic for Burnley and the wider area..... If successful.

Being from o’er the other side of the hill, I’m intrigued as to what Leeds’ response might be. It’s a growing city with plenty of ongoing investment (Channel 4 moving in as one example) but I’m sure they’ll be wanting their own slice of the powerhouse pie.

[DCWat]

In what way has that signing effected us?
We didn't need him, nor have we missed him.

It’s x million that we could have spent elsewhere.

[ewanrob]

In what way has that signing effected us?
We didn't need him, nor have we missed him.

The board seemed to have been reluctant to give the Manager further large funds since then....might be wrong thou

[Chester Perry]

The board seemed to have been reluctant to give the Manager further large funds since then....might be wrong thou

They were prepared to go to £20m + for Kalvin Phillips last summer - just wasn't enough for Leeds

[aggi]

There was something said a while ago that very much contradicted that. Not as though it matters, it’s a good few years since we even had an AGM.

There's definitely only one class of share. I don't know what the comment was. Could be that the non-board shareholders have such a minority shareholding that they are not able to exercise various rights.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

It’s x million that we could have spent elsewhere.

We didn't need too as yet though.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

The board seemed to have been reluctant to give the Manager further large funds since then....might be wrong thou

I'll need to check but I'm pretty sure he only became a problem around Xmas time.

We're only into our 2nd transfer window since then.

[ewanrob]

They were prepared to go to £20m + for Kalvin Phillips last summer - just wasn't enough for Leeds

I've said it before, that was a token gesture for the fans, they knew it would be declined...were never ever gonna go there.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I've said it before, that was a token gesture for the fans, they knew it would be declined...were never ever gonna go there.

So club are damned if they do and damned if they don't make bids..

Maybe you should step in and show them how it's done.

[ClaretTony]

It’s x million that we could have spent elsewhere.

We couldn’t have known he’d need surgery twice and once fit not be able to get in because of the form of the other two.

[ClaretTony]

I've said it before, that was a token gesture for the fans, they knew it would be declined...were never ever gonna go there.

It wasn’t a token gesture and the deal was a lot closer than you think

[ewanrob]

ARRIVALS 19/20
Players Club Transfer sum
Josh Brownhill Bristol City £9.00m
Jay Rodríguez West Brom £5.00m
Bailey Peacock-Farrell Leeds £2.48m
Erik Pieters Stoke £1m

ARRIVALS 18/19
Ben Gibson Middlesbrough £15.21m
Matej Vydra Derby £10.98m
Joe Hart Man City £3.51m

[ewanrob]

It wasn’t a token gesture and the deal was a lot closer than you think

Not according to a Leeds mate of mine, who knows Eddie Gray...word from him was he didnt fancy our style of play....but like most things like this...it may have been a bit of a tale.

[conyoviejo]

ARRIVALS 19/20
Players Club Transfer sum
Josh Brownhill Bristol City £9.00m
Jay Rodríguez West Brom £5.00m
Bailey Peacock-Farrell Leeds £2.48m
Erik Pieters Stoke £1m

ARRIVALS 18/19
Ben Gibson Middlesbrough £15.21m
Matej Vydra Derby £10.98m
Joe Hart Man City £3.51m

Arrivals 19/20 was a big improvement .

[ewanrob]

On player quality certainly...but values dropped a bit. We cant afford to have a 15 million signing on 40k a week on gardening duty...with an investor maybe those sort of hits wouldn't cause as many ripples...is all I'm saying.

[ClaretTony]

Not according to a Leeds mate of mine, who knows Eddie Gray...word from him was he didnt fancy our style of play....but like most things like this...it may have been a bit of a tale.

From what I was told, that’s a tale.