Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

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Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by RBFC » Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:43 pm

Sean Dyche believes Burnley are better placed to take advantage of the European transfer market than in previous years as they look to replenish a depleted squad this summer.

The departures in the past week of Jeff Hendrick, Joe Hart and Aaron Lennon have led to Dyche publicly voicing his frustration with the club’s board – sparking speculation over his own future at Turf Moor – but also left an increasingly threadbare squad in need of reinforcement.

Burnley have long relied on the English market, with their last overseas import being the £8million signing of Steven Defour from Anderlecht back in August 2016.

That has been down to a limited scouting infrastructure overseas and what Dyche calls a “risk-averse” strategy from the club’s board, wary of the added complications which come with asking players to move to a new country and adapt to a new life as well as a new league.

But Dyche said Mike Rigg, appointed as the club’s technical director in 2018, has worked to improve the club’s networks abroad ahead of what could be a busy summer.

“We have got more depth, more knowledge,” Dyche said. “Mike Rigg has been working hard to give us more knowledge of the European market, so who knows? Watch this space.”

Dyche spoke this week of the increasing difficulty of finding affordable English players.

While the club has a long history of success in signing players like Nick Pope and James Tarkowski for relatively small fees and seeing them go on to earn England recognition, that model grows more and more difficult as lower-league clubs demand ever higher fees for young prospects.

Opening more doors in Europe could therefore be key as Dyche urges the board to refine their approach and keep the club moving forward.

“We have built a deeper market with more people on the ground, more analysts looking at players,” Dyche said. “It’s still a risk-reward strategy from the board, and it’s usually risk-averse.

“Foreign players sometimes come over and find it hard to settle. Our board don’t want to make mistakes that cost money…

“It’s about doing the depth and the background to swing the odds in your favour.”

As attention begins to shift towards the summer market, Dyche has repeatedly said Burnley are on a sound financial footing despite the coronavirus crisis.

And so, while Dyche repeated the view that emerging star Dwight McNeil would one day need to leave the club to fulfil his potential, he insisted he would not come cheap.

“I don’t think we’ve ever planned to stay in anybody’s way, but equally we’re in a position the last few years to stand our ground in the market,” Dyche said.

“There was a time when people might have thought that if a player is doing well for us, you could nick him. That’s not the case now.

“If people want to come for our players they will have to pay heavy prices.”

https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/sport/nati ... ean-dyche/

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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by randomclaret2 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:51 pm

Imagine if we'd spent £15m on a player from abroad who barely played and 2 years later was training with his old club while we continued to pay his wages...we cant risk that kind of thing..
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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by DCWat » Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:09 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:51 pm
Imagine if we'd spent £15m on a player from abroad who barely played and 2 years later was training with his old club while we continued to pay his wages...we cant risk that kind of thing..
Exactly - we may as well not bother with any signings, especially after bloody Gibson who was right on our doorstep and we still got it wrong.

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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by DCWat » Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:10 pm

RBFC wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:43 pm
Sean Dyche believes Burnley are better placed to take advantage of the European transfer market than in previous years as they look to replenish a depleted squad this summer.

The departures in the past week of Jeff Hendrick, Joe Hart and Aaron Lennon have led to Dyche publicly voicing his frustration with the club’s board – sparking speculation over his own future at Turf Moor – but also left an increasingly threadbare squad in need of reinforcement.

Burnley have long relied on the English market, with their last overseas import being the £8million signing of Steven Defour from Anderlecht back in August 2016.

That has been down to a limited scouting infrastructure overseas and what Dyche calls a “risk-averse” strategy from the club’s board, wary of the added complications which come with asking players to move to a new country and adapt to a new life as well as a new league.

But Dyche said Mike Rigg, appointed as the club’s technical director in 2018, has worked to improve the club’s networks abroad ahead of what could be a busy summer.

“We have got more depth, more knowledge,” Dyche said. “Mike Rigg has been working hard to give us more knowledge of the European market, so who knows? Watch this space.”

Dyche spoke this week of the increasing difficulty of finding affordable English players.

While the club has a long history of success in signing players like Nick Pope and James Tarkowski for relatively small fees and seeing them go on to earn England recognition, that model grows more and more difficult as lower-league clubs demand ever higher fees for young prospects.

Opening more doors in Europe could therefore be key as Dyche urges the board to refine their approach and keep the club moving forward.

“We have built a deeper market with more people on the ground, more analysts looking at players,” Dyche said. “It’s still a risk-reward strategy from the board, and it’s usually risk-averse.

“Foreign players sometimes come over and find it hard to settle. Our board don’t want to make mistakes that cost money…

“It’s about doing the depth and the background to swing the odds in your favour.”

As attention begins to shift towards the summer market, Dyche has repeatedly said Burnley are on a sound financial footing despite the coronavirus crisis.

And so, while Dyche repeated the view that emerging star Dwight McNeil would one day need to leave the club to fulfil his potential, he insisted he would not come cheap.

“I don’t think we’ve ever planned to stay in anybody’s way, but equally we’re in a position the last few years to stand our ground in the market,” Dyche said.

“There was a time when people might have thought that if a player is doing well for us, you could nick him. That’s not the case now.

“If people want to come for our players they will have to pay heavy prices.”

https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/sport/nati ... ean-dyche/
The Oxford Mail article on Burnley?

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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by alboclaret » Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:32 pm

randomclaret2 wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:51 pm
Imagine if we'd spent £15m on a player from abroad who barely played and 2 years later was training with his old club while we continued to pay his wages...we cant risk that kind of thing..
From europe that kind of player may only cost half of that.

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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:41 pm

Is Mike Rigg mates with Dominic Raab by any chance?

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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by NewClaret » Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:24 am

Have to say, I tend to support the board on this one: foreign players are so much riskier in terms of language barriers, settling in a new country, bonding with the team, etc.

Would prefer we shopped at home, ideally those with PL experience (relegated clubs), but the “I think we Should buy this player” thread has plenty of examples of good British or settled players we could target.

Don’t mind being active in the free European transfer market, mind. Particularly this summer when we’ve got a lot of shopping to do!!

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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:39 am

The trouble with being risk averse is that it leaves you with no support when things go wrong. The board are risk averse with signings, and also with ground development. Sean is risk averse on the pitch. They are risk averse as a club with cup runs, including Europe. So far though, nothing major has gone wrong, the one relegation has seen us bounce back as champions.

All these things are regular grumbles from the fans though, and rightly so. But in balance BFC are one of the most successful clubs in the last decade outside the huge city clubs. So we might grumble, and Sean might grumble, but it seems to work. I thus expect little transfer movement in the summer other than a few relatively small 7 figure deals.

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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by KRBFC » Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:42 am

The good news for PL teams is the teams outside the PL are going to be more open to selling players to balance the books after the COVID break. I see it being a cheap market in comparison to previous years.
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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by dsr » Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:44 am

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:39 am
The trouble with being risk averse is that it leaves you with no support when things go wrong. The board are risk averse with signings, and also with ground development. Sean is risk averse on the pitch. They are risk averse as a club with cup runs, including Europe. So far though, nothing major has gone wrong, the one relegation has seen us bounce back as champions.

All these things are regular grumbles from the fans though, and rightly so. But in balance BFC are one of the most successful clubs in the last decade outside the huge city clubs. So we might grumble, and Sean might grumble, but it seems to work. I thus expect little transfer movement in the summer other than a few relatively small 7 figure deals.
The flip side is that being pro-risk leaves you with no money when things go wrong. If you're going to get relegated, as we did, then far better to get relegated with cash in the bank and with the ability to retain the squad, then (as other teams have done) getting relegated with no money left and a fire sale of the good players to enable us to continue to pay the bad.

Besides, when things go wrong, you lose support whether you have taken risks or not. You never get credit for taking risks that failed.
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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by gtclaret » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:22 am

This is not the only problem that needs addressing. Our failing youth policy, and the managers refusal to give any young player an opportunity whatever the circumstances, be it cup games or end of season meaningless games. We have produced just one player in 10 years, and that was lucky, if it wasn't for injuries, he would have been playing for Chelmsford. We are currently offering extensions of contracts to 22 Yr olds, just when are they expected to make the breakthrough. We have even offered Aiden O'Neil a contract, remember him, now out playing in New Zealand or wherever. Are these players good enough or not, if not then release them, if they are then play them, not just keep them out on loan in the National League

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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:26 am

randomclaret2 wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:51 pm
Imagine if we'd spent £15m on a player from abroad who barely played and 2 years later was training with his old club while we continued to pay his wages...we cant risk that kind of thing..
Gibson is pretty much a one off though, pretty much every other player can emotionally detach themselves from their former clubs, because football is simply a job at the end of the day.

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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by BenWickes » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:34 am

gtclaret wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:22 am
Our failing youth policy, and the managers refusal to give any young player an opportunity whatever the circumstances, be it cup games or end of season meaningless games. We have produced just one player in 10 years,
In fairness. It had been run into the ground by previous incumbents. It takes time to re-establish a successful youth system. Barnfield and investment in youth in recent years should produce more but it takes time.

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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by AfloatinClaret » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:54 am

DCWat wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:09 pm
...bloody Gibson who was right on our doorstep and we still got it wrong.
Ah, the joy of 20/20 hindsight
Not taking a pop at you particularly DCWat, just the handiest post to quote. But, could you, or indeed any of those posters criticising the Board/SD/Recruitment Team, refer us to a negative post that they made back when we were signing Gibson? My recollection is that we on this message board universally considered buying Gibson to be a great bit of business.
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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by nyclaret » Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:07 am

Can’t we just raid Brentford’s whole recruitment team? They seem to get it right every year!

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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:15 am

DCWat wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:09 pm
Exactly - we may as well not bother with any signings, especially after bloody Gibson who was right on our doorstep and we still got it wrong.
We didn't get it wrong, it just didn't work out.
There's a difference, and to foresee the difference you'd need a crystal ball.

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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:23 am

I dont see why Rigg can't use the top scouts. They must have a long list of top talent, that the likes of Man U, Chelsea are after, but they should also have a list of really good players that might suit a 'Burnley', but not good enough for the top 6.

If they are out there touting top talent anyway.........


As for fitting in Defour obviously loved it here, as did Hennings, even though he never really made it. The characteristics we look for in players, can still be looked for even in Europe. We have a culture at the club that should make it a lot easier for foreign players to feel welcome.

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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by MACCA » Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:29 am

nyclaret wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:07 am
Can’t we just raid Brentford’s whole recruitment team? They seem to get it right every year!
In the last decade, I'll take our getting it wrong most years over Brentfords getting it right every year that's for sure.

Although I do lay all the credit at our managers door. He has worked wonders

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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by Dyched » Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:47 am

MACCA wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:29 am
In the last decade, I'll take our getting it wrong most years over Brentfords getting it right every year that's for sure.

Although I do lay all the credit at our managers door. He has worked wonders
I think their success has been their biggest downfall. They’ve got players in who have played well but unfortunately tick all the right boxes for other clubs too. They have never really kept hold of a settled squad with their better players having to be replaced it seems nearly every year.

We on the other hand had Trippier, Ings, Vokes, Shackell, who all had their best year in the first promotion season. We went up so kept hold of them. Others came in, some went. Had we missed out for arguments sake, Ings would have gone. Trippier possibly also. That’s a huge amount of goals/assists to find.

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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by JohnDearyMe » Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:47 am

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:23 am
I dont see why Rigg can't use the top scouts. They must have a long list of top talent, that the likes of Man U, Chelsea are after, but they should also have a list of really good players that might suit a 'Burnley', but not good enough for the top 6.

If they are out there touting top talent anyway.........


As for fitting in Defour obviously loved it here, as did Hennings, even though he never really made it. The characteristics we look for in players, can still be looked for even in Europe. We have a culture at the club that should make it a lot easier for foreign players to feel welcome.
As good as Defour was it did take him until his second season until we saw the best of him on a more consistent basis

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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by CombatClaret » Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:52 am

Spending small on a few Euopean players, fill out the squad and try to see who works out would be wise. What we can't afford is to spend £15-20m on one player and they turn out to be no better than what we already had or worse. Off the top of my head from teams in our mini-league:

Brighton - Jahanbakhsh (20m) Locadia(15m)
Sheffield - Sander Berge (22m)
Villa - Wesley (23m) Nakamba (12m)

As for shopping at home, lets not forget the call on here to give in to the £20m+ price tag on Che Adams who started the season so poorly he's barely been seen since.
Sensible spending is called for now more than ever.
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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:02 am

JohnDearyMe wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:47 am
As good as Defour was it did take him until his second season until we saw the best of him on a more consistent basis
We knew about his injury history before we bought him, which is why we got him so cheap, and why we knew we'd have to nurture him for long periods. I'd take a player of SDs quailty, for that money, even if he can only play 20 games a season, or 45 mins per game, he'd still be a bargain.

In 3 years, you'd hope we've travelled a long way on the road to identifying European talent, if we haven't then someone wants a kicking up the backside

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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:04 am

randomclaret2 wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:51 pm
Imagine if we'd spent £15m on a player from abroad who barely played and 2 years later was training with his old club while we continued to pay his wages...we cant risk that kind of thing..
There is a specific reason for that. Nothing to do with where he comes from at all. I find it rather sad that someone should even consider posting this on this thread.

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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:06 am

nyclaret wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:07 am
Can’t we just raid Brentford’s whole recruitment team? They seem to get it right every year!
Do you want us to run our club like Brentford with no academy? If it was so good why are Brentford the only club doing it?

And given we will be going into a fIfth consecutive Premier League season, where do we get it so wrong that we need to make such a drastic change?

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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:08 am

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:23 am
I dont see why Rigg can't use the top scouts. They must have a long list of top talent, that the likes of Man U, Chelsea are after, but they should also have a list of really good players that might suit a 'Burnley', but not good enough for the top 6.
I don’t understand this at all. What do you mean by using top scouts? Those that work for other clubs?

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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by Chester Perry » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:09 am

nyclaret wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:07 am
Can’t we just raid Brentford’s whole recruitment team? They seem to get it right every year!
That would mean buying the Brentford owners business - and the combined wealth of our board and the club is way short of that value

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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:15 am

ClaretTony wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:08 am
I don’t understand this at all. What do you mean by using top scouts? Those that work for other clubs?
Perhaps not well explained.
I mean that there are scouts that have been in the European market for years. It sounds as if our European scouts are new to the game and playing catch up. I just think why can't we utilise the scouts already in the market. The demograph of the type of player we are after, isn't likely to impinge on the players touted for the top 6, but they must see plenty of players that would suit us rather than a Man U. If Mike Rigg has contacts, then use them.

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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by CombatClaret » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:16 am

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:23 am
I dont see why Rigg can't use the top scouts. They must have a long list of top talent, that the likes of Man U, Chelsea are after, but they should also have a list of really good players that might suit a 'Burnley', but not good enough for the top 6.
We probably use the same data collect and resources as all the teams in the league. So If everyone does it that leaves us back at square one.

To think someone on this message board has any ideas that professional sports people haven't come up with in the last few decades.
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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by nyclaret » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:18 am

ClaretTony wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:06 am
Do you want us to run our club like Brentford with no academy? If it was so good why are Brentford the only club doing it?

And given we will be going into a fIfth consecutive Premier League season, where do we get it so wrong that we need to make such a drastic change?
I was thinking more along the lines of their scouting department. You can’t deny the fact they find some great players for a good price. Benrahma, Watkins, etc. They’re obviously doing something right. I agree it’s difficult for a club like Brentford when bigger clubs come calling but if we were to adopt a similar scouting network as a Premier League club it would be more sustainable you’d think.

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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:19 am

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:15 am
Perhaps not well explained.
I mean that there are scouts that have been in the European market for years. It sounds as if our European scouts are new to the game and playing catch up. I just think why can't we utilise the scouts already in the market.
Do you actually believe we don’t? We will have full time scouts, part time scouts and contacts we can call on. That will be a significant number of people.

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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:21 am

CombatClaret wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:16 am
We probably use the same data collect and resources as all the teams in the league. So If everyone does it that leaves us back at square one.

To think someone on this message board has any ideas that professional sports people haven't come up with in the last few decades.
IF we use the same data and resources as everyone else, how come we keep claiming to being behind the curve in European recruitment....... :?

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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:25 am

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:21 am
IF we use the same data and resources as everyone else, how come we keep claiming to being behind the curve in European recruitment....... :?
Have you not listened to the manager over the last few years? We have been a long way behind.

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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:28 am

ClaretTony wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:25 am
Have you not listened to the manager over the last few years? We have been a long way behind.
I KNOW, it's Combat Claret that thinks we use the same data as everyone else.
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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:29 am

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:28 am
I KNOW, it's Combat Claret that thinks we use the same data as everyone else.
We do. We use the same software as a lot of clubs.

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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by Tribesmen » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:44 am

Not sure about scouts at all . So take some are employed by the club and is there such a thing as free lance scouts who put forward a player to many clubs ?
Again i know very little about these guys

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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by Jakubs Tash » Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:23 pm

There are bound to be some decent frees around this summer (domestically and in Europe) which might be good for potentially filling the squad out a little.

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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by DCWat » Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:58 pm

AfloatinClaret wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:54 am
Ah, the joy of 20/20 hindsight
Not taking a pop at you particularly DCWat, just the handiest post to quote. But, could you, or indeed any of those posters criticising the Board/SD/Recruitment Team, refer us to a negative post that they made back when we were signing Gibson? My recollection is that we on this message board universally considered buying Gibson to be a great bit of business.
No worries :)

It’s of course easy to make such a comment with hindsight.

What I think it does show though, to a certain degree, is that despite our knowledge of the local market and in-depth analysis of an individual, you can get a ‘bad egg’ whether you shop at home or abroad.

To date, we’ve pretty much avoided foreign recruitment because we can’t assess the character of an individual, amongst other things.

Part of management isn’t just having the right characters, it’s being able to manage those that aren’t what we would necessarily assume to be the right character and getting the most out of them. Joey Barton being a prime example.

The pool we are currently shopping in is getting smaller and smaller and more expensive. Somethings have to be tweaked; the markets we shop in, ability to integrate different people / players, the money we will invest etc.

It’s more than just releasing some extra funds, I think Dyche himself needs to adapt a little too.

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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by Giftonsnoidea » Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:06 pm

Is it April the 1st ? :roll:

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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by Colburn_Claret » Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:21 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:29 am
We do. We use the same software as a lot of clubs.
I wasn't talking about software, and if software is what we are relying on to assess possible signings, God help us.

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Re: Burnley Looking To European Market For Reinforcements

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:23 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:21 pm
I wasn't talking about software, and if software is what we are relying on to assess possible signings, God help us.
We don’t rely on software to assess possible signings but we use software to support our recruitment like any other professional club will. Was all explained in a recent interview with Rigg.

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