Koi.ki on his way

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jurek
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Koi.ki on his way

Post by jurek » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:41 pm

Just read somewhere that Koiki who I believe is a promising
young full-back is leaving after having turned a new contract.
Apparently not happy with not being given too many first team chances
and is likely to be snapped up.

Can we afford to lose promising youngsters?
Or is he not as good as I think?

Leisure
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Re: Koi.ki on his way

Post by Leisure » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:50 pm

My personal opinion is that he hasn't really progressed over the past 12 months and I don't consider him to be anywhere near the 1st team or even the bench.
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Re: Koi.ki on his way

Post by Corky » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:01 pm

I believe he flaps about a lot.

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Re: Koi.ki on his way

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:05 pm

I wouldn’t think he was close to the first team to be honest. He’s very quick and strong but I’d suggest Glennon has gone ahead of him in the pecking order behind Taylor & Pieters.

He did well at Swindon last season and he does need to be playing first team football. Good luck to him if he chooses to move on.

We will, of course, be entitled to a compensation payment if he signs for another club.

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Re: Koi.ki on his way

Post by claretandy » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:06 pm

We have offered him a contract so compensation will be due.

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Re: Koi.ki on his way

Post by Foulthrow » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:19 pm

I heard we put a contract offer in
But he pulled out.
In.
Out.
In.
Out.
Just to shake it all about.

Oh Ali, Ali koiki.

(Gets coat)
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Re: Koi.ki on his way

Post by bfcjg » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:38 pm

Foulthrow wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:19 pm
I heard we put a contract offer in
But he pulled out.
In.
Out.
In.
Out.
Just to shake it all about.

Oh Ali, Ali koiki.

(Gets coat)

Groan....😀
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Re: Koi.ki on his way

Post by JohnDearyMe » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:01 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:05 pm
I wouldn’t think he was close to the first team to be honest. He’s very quick and strong but I’d suggest Glennon has gone ahead of him in the pecking order behind Taylor & Pieters.

He did well at Swindon last season and he does need to be playing first team football. Good luck to him if he chooses to move on.

We will, of course, be entitled to a compensation payment if he signs for another club.
Did he go out on loan earlier on in the season?

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Re: Koi.ki on his way

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:30 pm

JohnDearyMe wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:01 pm
Did he go out on loan earlier on in the season?
No - second half of last season to Swindon

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Re: Koi.ki on his way

Post by Burnley1989 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:43 pm

I always admire players that leave big clubs to play football when there’s an offer in the table. Good luck to him
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Re: Koi.ki on his way

Post by warksclaret » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:54 pm

Is this a Koi Carp

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Re: Koi.ki on his way

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:16 pm

Good luck to him. Will we regret it? It’s hard to say. He could sit here. Never play and never progress and both would regret it. Or he could leave. Go down the leagues. Make a name for himself and end up better than us. Marc Pugh. Danny Sonner. A couple of examples.

Doesn’t mean we fk up if he leaves. But maybe best for both of he does.

Whenever I saw him he impressed. Fair play for him having confidence to turn down a prem contract.

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Re: Koi.ki on his way

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:33 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:16 pm
Good luck to him. Will we regret it? It’s hard to say. He could sit here. Never play and never progress and both would regret it. Or he could leave. Go down the leagues. Make a name for himself and end up better than us. Marc Pugh. Danny Sonner. A couple of examples.

Doesn’t mean we fk up if he leaves. But maybe best for both of he does.

Whenever I saw him he impressed. Fair play for him having confidence to turn down a prem contract.
How did Marc Pugh become better than us? It's 14 years since he left and in that time he spent 3 seasons in the same division, one season ahead of us and 10 seasons in divisions lower than us.

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Re: Koi.ki on his way

Post by mdd2 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:41 pm

Surely he has spent 5 seasons in this Division and 4 with us in it

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Re: Koi.ki on his way

Post by CnBtruntru » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:43 pm

Foulthrow wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:19 pm
I heard we put a contract offer in
But he pulled out.
In.
Out.
In.
Out.
Just to shake it all about.

Oh Ali, Ali koiki.

(Gets coat)
Thought that was quite entertaining.
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Re: Koi.ki on his way

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:50 pm

mdd2 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:41 pm
Surely he has spent 5 seasons in this Division and 4 with us in it
Pugh? Played his last Premier League game for Bournemouth in May 2018, since had a loan at Hull before moving to QPR from where he was recently released. The only seasons he played in the Premier League with us in it were 2016/17 & 2017/18. He was a division higher than us in 2015/16 and we were both in the Championship in 2013/14.

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Re: Koi.ki on his way

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:50 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:33 pm
How did Marc Pugh become better than us? It's 14 years since he left and in that time he spent 3 seasons in the same division, one season ahead of us and 10 seasons in divisions lower than us.
We let him go as a team that was down the bottom end of the championship.

He ended up a good player with a good championship career and over 3 premier league seasons to his name.

He had a better career than the position we were in when he left.

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Re: Koi.ki on his way

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:52 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:50 pm
We let him go as a team that was down the bottom end of the championship.

He ended up a good player with a good championship career and over 3 premier league seasons to his name.

He had a better career than the position we were in when he left.
Twisted logic is that. When he left us he dropped down to the bottom division. He didn't play in the Championship even until seven years after he left. Pughy was a bit unfortunate at Burnley but he didn't go on to better himself by leaving us.

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Re: Koi.ki on his way

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:57 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:52 pm
Twisted logic is that. When he left us he dropped down to the bottom division. He didn't play in the Championship even until seven years after he left. Pughy was a bit unfortunate at Burnley but he didn't go on to better himself by leaving us.
Not twisted logic really. My point was by leaving his career in the long run ended up far better than the position of the club he left where he didn’t play a game.

He left as a raw 19 year old. Went down the leagues and worked hard and ended up a premier league player and a championship winner. Not bad for a player we released.

Lee Dixon another example. Payton albeit as a schoolboy.

Had Pugh hung around he wouldn’t have got games and his career would have probably stagnated and he’d not have made the grade.

No reason koiki can’t do the same.

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Re: Koi.ki on his way

Post by gtclaret » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:41 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:05 pm
I wouldn’t think he was close to the first team to be honest. He’s very quick and strong but I’d suggest Glennon has gone ahead of him in the pecking order behind Taylor & Pieters.

He did well at Swindon last season and he does need to be playing first team football. Good luck to him if he chooses to move on.

We will, of course, be entitled to a compensation payment if he signs for another club.
So if he was nowhere near first team and not progressing, why did we offer him a new contract. If Glennon is ahead of him at what stage is he likely to experience first team football with Burnley, same with a number of so called promising young players which our very expensive academy is supposed to be producing.
I realise that they have go out on loan as part of their development, but this seems to be all we do with them, the purpose is to produce players for the first team. I will remind you that we got lucky with McNeil, if Brady had stayed fit for just another few weeks, McNeil would have been loaned to Cheltenham
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Re: Koi.ki on his way

Post by boatshed bill » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:54 pm

Unfortunately, despite all the extra cash put into it, at present we are not producing PL players through the academy. Most of those who were loaned out last season played at around Lg 2 level, some even lower. Strangely, Koiki started the last U23 season as the main goal threat and must have hoped for better things.

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Re: Koi.ki on his way

Post by ClaretLoup » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:12 am

It doesn’t help that the big clubs are vacuuming up all the talented youngsters and keeping them on their books for ever via the loan system. Checking out Hennings scoring record with Fortuna Düsseldorf I note that they have a Chelsea player on their roster called Lewis Baker who is 25 years old and FD are his eighth loan.

Clubs like Burnley are picking up the scraps that these clubs throw away hoping that they have cast aside what they thought was a rock but polished up turns out to be a gold nugget.

Given all that, Burnley will be doing well to produce one EPL level player every 3/5 years. Hopefully McNeil will be a trail blazer.

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Re: Koi.ki on his way

Post by Woodleyclaret » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:21 am

Koiki is playing a dangerous game.With a large pool of released players with lots of league experience, it's a high gamble, especially with a contract offer
Did he seriously expect to step up and over current players?
Maybe he is not all that and we offered him a chance to show more.

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Re: Koi.ki on his way

Post by wilks_bfc » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:39 am

Think saying Pugh ended up better than us is stretching it

More like he ended up in a better position than if he had stayed with us.

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Re: Koi.ki on his way

Post by MACCA » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:01 am

wilks_bfc wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:39 am
Think saying Pugh ended up better than us is stretching it

More like he ended up in a better position than if he had stayed with us.
Im not so sure, maybe staying another 2 or 3 years meant when he was released he wouldn't even get a league club, and disappear into the many that end up playing local non league football, and tumbling down the footballing pyramid.

Who knows.

Somethings decisions are are right at the time, and would never have worked out the same should they had stayed on the same path.
Sometimes having to take the path you didn't want too, makes you the person you become, whether that's good or bad.

Anyway, I wish him all the very best and I hope he carves out at the very least a decent career for himself.
I always keep an eye out for the released kids from us in the top 5 divisions.

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Re: Koi.ki on his way

Post by depechedingle » Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:10 am

Let's just put the Mark Pugh debate to rest please,

He left Burnley and played at a lower level for several years crafting out a honest career, where he no doubt appreciated every minute. His hard work and dedication by having to graft no doubt enabled him to reach the Premier League with Bournemouth.

All in all I think he has had himself a more than decent career and I am sure when he hang his boots up he will have few regrets.

Well done to this Bacup lad.
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Re: Koi.ki on his way

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:22 am

wilks_bfc wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:39 am
Think saying Pugh ended up better than us is stretching it

More like he ended up in a better position than if he had stayed with us.
Your last part of that post is effectively what im saying. He had a better career by leaving us and had a better career than where we were when he left. Not sure why people are getting upset by that. Merely saying Koiki could do the same. Fair play to him for believing he can make a good career by leaving the premier league.

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Re: Koi.ki on his way

Post by wilks_bfc » Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:26 am

cricketfieldclarets wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:22 am
Your last part of that post is effectively what im saying. He had a better career by leaving us and had a better career than where we were when he left. Not sure why people are getting upset by that. Merely saying Koiki could do the same. Fair play to him for believing he can make a good career by leaving the premier league.
I think some are reading/misinterpreting your "Make a name for himself and end up better than us" as being a player too good for us
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Re: Koi.ki on his way

Post by depechedingle » Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:26 am

On the Ali Koiki contract debate,

Put yourself in his shoes or boots if you like. At the start of the season he was in and around the first team squad, scoring at Fleetwood pre season. To be honest that day he didn't look out of place, I will add the caveat though that he was playing among senior professional players who's pre season is merely to gain minutes and fitness for the start of the season, whereas Koiki is busting a good to impress. Josh Benson impressed in the same friendly match.

Koiki natural position I believe is left back, as eluded to earlier we are now quite strong in this position and in my opinion we have in Charlie Taylor one of the best left backs in England. Koiki has done well on his loans out, but so as Matt Glennon and now we have two left backs of some promise as back up to the two senior professionals we have in that position already.

Whatever Koiki decides to do, I am fine with. At this time he is some way from the first team and probably match squad, so he has to weigh up his options. A one year contract at Burnley or take a chance on starting low and trusting his talent to bring him back up the leagues. At the level he is currently at I I can't see his earnings at Burnley being life changing amounts, so providing he gets a club he shouldn't be out of pocket much.

If he decides to go, good luck to him. If he goes on to have a successful career brilliant for him, we might have missed out long term it's impossible to know that now though.
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Re: Koi.ki on his way

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:50 am

gtclaret wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:41 pm
So if he was nowhere near first team and not progressing, why did we offer him a new contract. If Glennon is ahead of him at what stage is he likely to experience first team football with Burnley, same with a number of so called promising young players which our very expensive academy is supposed to be producing.
I realise that they have go out on loan as part of their development, but this seems to be all we do with them, the purpose is to produce players for the first team. I will remind you that we got lucky with McNeil, if Brady had stayed fit for just another few weeks, McNeil would have been loaned to Cheltenham
I did say he was nowhere near the first team but I very definitely did not say he was not progressing, that was Leisure. For what it's worth, I think he is progressing but I think Glennon has stepped up at left back (with Koiki having played a lot under Stone further up the pitch) and has done really well, apparently, at Grimsby which is why I considered he'd gone above him in the pecking order. The purpose of the academy is partly to produce players for the first team (one which I wasn't aware was very expensive, you obviously know more than me on that one) but if we were to produce players for which we get a fee then that is also good business. Should Koiki go, we would be entitled to a fee. It's not all about getting first team players.

Now let's put this Cheltenham nonsense to bed shall we?

Time line

Dec 2017 - Brady injured
May 2018 - McNeil makes debut as a substitute
Jul 2018 - Fleetwood try to sign McNeil on loan, Dyche turns it down
Aug 2018 - McNeil makes first Burnley start
Sep 2018 - Duff moves to Cheltenham
Oct 2018 - Duff tells Cheltenham fans he'll try to get help from Burnley but has already been given a definite no on one player (that player was McNeil)
Dec 2018 - McNeil steps into first team on a permanent basis

I can assure you he was never going to Cheltenham on loan

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Re: Koi.ki on his way

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:55 am

Duff’s version from Dec 18 is slightly different

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.glou ... 375980.amp

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Re: Koi.ki on his way

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:14 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:55 am
Duff’s version from Dec 18 is slightly different

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.glou ... 375980.amp
I think it was tongue in cheek. He’d been told it wouldn’t happen when he first went there. Dwight was never going to Cheltenham.

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Re: Koi.ki on his way

Post by aggi » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:44 pm

Plenty of players over the years have left and dropped down the leagues because they don't think they'll get the chances if they stay where they are. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. Our captain is the perfect example of this.

I suspect that part of the reason we offered a new contract was because you have to in order to get anything from the tribunal. If we'd kept him he'd have likely been out on loan again next year.

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