A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

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A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by Gordaleman » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:17 am

Tottenham boss Jose Mourinho wasn't happy either on Thursday, saying he fears football is going in the wrong direction after his side had a goal controversially ruled out by VAR when Sheffield United led 1-0.

Blades boss Chris Wilder said the technology was a farce after Harry Kane's equalising strike was chalked off for handball in the build-up. Lucas Moura's arm appeared to brush the ball as he fell under a challenge.

"The referee is in the office," said Mourinho. "I never complain at the guy with the whistle because it's not the referee any more.

"I think the referee should always be the man on the pitch and the people in the office should just support and assist.

"That's not the way it is. The referee who is not very good on the pitch, we cannot expect that he's good in the office. We're going in a direction that's really bad for the beautiful game, the game that everybody fell in love with."

TIME TO DO AWAY WITH VAR.
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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by fidelcastro » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:19 am

We should never have brought it in.

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by randomclaret2 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:22 am

Another chance for Mourinho to deflect talk away from yet another lacklustre performance, something he specialises in.
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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by Gordaleman » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:23 am

randomclaret2 wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:22 am
Another chance for Mourinho to deflect talk away from yet another lacklustre performance, something he specialises in.
That may well be true but Wilder agreed with him.

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by huw.Y.WattfromWare » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:24 am

The problems with the handball law are there has to be a cut off point, on the arm, and there has to be a decision on deliberate.
The first leads to arguments on point of contact, the second is a matter of opinion.
There will always be arguments and whilst feeling for Spurs on the call I’m quite happy for them to leave it be. 99.9% are easy calls this was a toughie.
I’m not even sure it hit his arm at all. From one angle it looked like his back

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by tiger76 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:32 am

I thought the whole concept of VAR was to correct clear and obvious errors, not nitpick for minutes over pedantic calls.

Strictly by the current laws, then they were correct in disallowing both Man City's 5th goal, and Tottenham's equaliser, but the laws an ass, and that's what needs changing, how on earth is Lucas Moura supposed to evade the ball when it's blasted it him from a yard away.

This farce and i'm sure there's been a few others since we came back, plus the nonsense of the goalline technology failing in the Villa-Sheff Utd, is turning the PL into a laughing stock, that decision not to award that 'goal' could have severe ramifications at both ends of the table, Villa could yet stay up by a point, and Sheff Utd could easily miss out on Europe by the same margin, i'm sorry when the rewards are so great, and failure is so costly for all the clubs this isn't acceptable.
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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by Dyched » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:43 am

The problem is the rule. All goals will be disallowed if the ball touches an attackers arm in the move. VAR checked, touched an arm, disallowed. That’s VAR working perfectly. VAR is an easy target atm with every decision. It got that one right. Managers need to read the rules. If they don’t like them, don’t blame VAR when it gets them right. Take that rule away and allow accidental handballs to stand and finding the middle ground is almost impossible. I’m not saying one is better than the other, I’ve no idea what would be best.
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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by tiger76 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:44 am

randomclaret2 wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:22 am
Another chance for Mourinho to deflect talk away from yet another lacklustre performance, something he specialises in.
TBF to Jose he didn't dwell on the disallowed goal in the interview i saw, he was clear that his players weren't good enough, and he questioned their lack of character amongst other things, expect a big clear out come the summer.

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by Gordaleman » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:44 am

tiger76 wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:32 am
I thought the whole concept of VAR was to correct clear and obvious errors, not nitpick for minutes over pedantic calls.

Strictly by the current laws, then they were correct in disallowing both Man City's 5th goal, and Tottenham's equaliser, but the laws an ass, and that's what needs changing, how on earth is Lucas Moura supposed to evade the ball when it's blasted it him from a yard away.

This farce and i'm sure there's been a few others since we came back, plus the nonsense of the goalline technology failing in the Villa-Sheff Utd, is turning the PL into a laughing stock, that decision not to award that 'goal' could have severe ramifications at both ends of the table, Villa could yet stay up by a point, and Sheff Utd could easily miss out on Europe by the same margin, i'm sorry when the rewards are so great, and failure is so costly for all the clubs this isn't acceptable.
I can't remember now which match it was, but earlier this week we had a VAR decision that took three and a half minutes to reach. That is just ridiculous. Fans can'r celebrate goals in the way they used to, because they don't know if it will count for ages afterwards.

VAR IS CRAZY.

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by pushpinpussy » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:47 am

Gordaleman wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:17 am
Tottenham boss Jose Mourinho wasn't happy either on Thursday, saying he fears football is going in the wrong direction after his side had a goal controversially ruled out by VAR when Sheffield United led 1-0.

Blades boss Chris Wilder said the technology was a farce after Harry Kane's equalising strike was chalked off for handball in the build-up. Lucas Moura's arm appeared to brush the ball as he fell under a challenge.

"The referee is in the office," said Mourinho. "I never complain at the guy with the whistle because it's not the referee any more.

"I think the referee should always be the man on the pitch and the people in the office should just support and assist.

"That's not the way it is. The referee who is not very good on the pitch, we cannot expect that he's good in the office. We're going in a direction that's really bad for the beautiful game, the game that everybody fell in love with."

TIME TO DO AWAY WITH VAR.

Mourinho will be delighted to know someone as intelligent as you agrees with him.

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by tiger76 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:57 am

Gordaleman wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:44 am
I can't remember now which match it was, but earlier this week we had a VAR decision that took three and a half minutes to reach. That is just ridiculous. Fans can'r celebrate goals in the way they used to, because they don't know if it will count for ages afterwards.

VAR IS CRAZY.
Yes i can't remember the match, but there was a decision that took ages to confirm, if it's taking that long, how can it be defined as a clear and obvious error, a clear and obvious error should at the maximum require 2 viewings by the 4th official, if he can't decide by then, go with the on-field decision.

There's already far too many stoppages in the game due to drink break/corners/goal kicks/throw in's taking an eternity, and players going down when they're not injured, the VAR nonsense just adds to breaking up the flow of the game.

I've noticed that once a goal goes in now, the first thing players do is look towards the ref, to see whether he's going upstairs, this ruins the moment, football is built on spontaneity, and once that's taken away it loses it's charm.

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by Quickenthetempo » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:59 am

They messed the rule up.

It should be the goal can't be directly scored off the hand, even when not deliberate.

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by SGr » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:00 am

Benefit of the doubt should be with the attacker. At the moment, it just isn't - marginal calls result in goals being controversially chalked off.
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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by NottsClaret » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:14 am

Dyched wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:43 am
The problem is the rule. All goals will be disallowed if the ball touches an attackers arm in the move. VAR checked, touched an arm, disallowed. That’s VAR working perfectly. VAR is an easy target atm with every decision. It got that one right.
Yeah, but if you didn't have VAR both those goals would have stood yesterday. It can't be seen in real time. The law was only changed after VAR was introduced because it was one of the anomalies VAR threw up, as every incident can be analysed forensically. The problem FIFA had with the handball rule was that it left it to the referee to assess intent.

Obviously we can't have that anymore, it has to be black and white, right and wrong. Which is why we've got a poorer spectacle and a less enjoyable game. The rules are being altered to tie in with VAR, not the other way round.
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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:19 am

"The referee is in the office," said Mourinho. "I never complain at the guy with the whistle because it's not the referee any more.“

Hmmm

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:20 am

Football needed VAR in some form.
It's just being poorly used.
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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by RalphCoatesComb » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:23 am

Gordaleman wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:17 am
TIME TO DO AWAY WITH VAR.
VAR isn't the problem here, it's the ludicrous law and the way it is interpreted. Crazy decision but there have been others and will be others to come.

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by Barry_Chuckle » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:31 am

VAR worked ok in during the world cup in Russia, it's only $hite now because we've over complicated it.

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by diamondpocket » Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:17 pm

It was always gonna be the case. It has just opened up a can of worms and it'll only get worse & worse.

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by Gordaleman » Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:24 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:20 am
Football needed VAR in some form.
It's just being poorly used.
Why did football need VAR? It's done very well without it for well over 100 years.

I'm a big believer in the old adage, 'If it ain't broke, don't ment it'.

The footballing authorities have messed about with the rules an awful lot in the last 20 years, and I can't immediately think of a change that has improved the game to any great extent. I can think of a few that haven't though.
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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:12 pm

Gordaleman wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:24 pm
Why did football need VAR? It's done very well without it for well over 100 years.

I'm a big believer in the old adage, 'If it ain't broke, don't ment it'.

The footballing authorities have messed about with the rules an awful lot in the last 20 years, and I can't immediately think of a change that has improved the game to any great extent. I can think of a few that haven't though.
People have wanted something for a while, even on these forums.
Goals clearly crossing the line and not given, fouls, handballs etc.

We just took a simple idea and over complicated it.

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by Gordaleman » Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:23 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:12 pm


We just took a simple idea and over complicated it.
You can say that again. And then some. VAR is a farce. I don't know anyone who wants to wait several minutes to see if their team has REALLY scored, before being able to celebrate.

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by Belial » Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:31 pm

We have needed VAR as a comparison tool if nothing else. At least now people can say get rid it whereas if it hadn't ever been used, lots of people would have still called for it. Interestingly Dyche and others have claimed it has been a success, just these isolated incidents are now becoming tedious and move away from the initial concept. The Sheff Utd goal ruled out a few weeks ago against Villa was an absolute farce and somrime somewhere should be punished for that, but that doesn't seem to happen, which then makes the whole system open to interpretation and at worst, corruption

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by tiger76 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:34 pm

Gordaleman wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:24 pm
Why did football need VAR? It's done very well without it for well over 100 years.

I'm a big believer in the old adage, 'If it ain't broke, don't ment it'.

The footballing authorities have messed about with the rules an awful lot in the last 20 years, and I can't immediately think of a change that has improved the game to any great extent. I can think of a few that haven't though.
The only rule change i can think of that's led to an improvement is the back pass rule being amended, and even that's rarely implemented by the officials, how often do keepers abuse the 6 second rule, it happens several times during a game.

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by Gordaleman » Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:40 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:34 pm
The only rule change i can think of that's led to an improvement is the back pass rule being amended, and even that's rarely implemented by the officials, how often do keepers abuse the 6 second rule, it happens several times during a game.
Exactly my point. The only reason they changed the rule about goalkeepers taking more than four steps, was because Alex Stepney at Utd did it all the time and refs ignored it because Utd got away with everything.

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:54 pm

Belial wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:31 pm
We have needed VAR as a comparison tool if nothing else. At least now people can say get rid it whereas if it hadn't ever been used, lots of people would have still called for it. Interestingly Dyche and others have claimed it has been a success, just these isolated incidents are now becoming tedious and move away from the initial concept. The Sheff Utd goal ruled out a few weeks ago against Villa was an absolute farce and somrime somewhere should be punished for that, but that doesn't seem to happen, which then makes the whole system open to interpretation and at worst, corruption
That was Hawkeye at fault for the goal, not VAR

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by Ashingtonclaret46 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:02 pm

Football did not need VAR at all, it was the modern fan aided by the media which wanted VAR because they are not content with leaving decisions to the onfield officials, however, only at the top level! I wonder why that is? Well, we all know ---money!

Goal line technology was a real success --until a few weeks ago, however, it should continue to be a success in the future so no problem.
VAR is a different animal and it has led to changes in The Laws of the Game just in order to accommodate the use of VAR.
Meanwhile, in spite of sticking to TLOG and the interpretation required, the fans and media are now criticising those responsible both on and off the field for getting it right!

In any other game, without the involvement of VAR, the goal at Sheffield would have been allowed. The goal at West Ham the other night, which led to the long VAR delay, would also have been allowed without VAR, however, Jon Moss was spot on with his interpretation because Antonio's head was offside and was preventing his opponent making a play for the ball!
If VAR is being used then you have to accept the decisions and you will have to get used to it because it won't be going away!

I have been anti VAR right from the start and I am not surprised by all the upheaval concerned. For those who say it was a success in the World Cup in Russia, just ask any Croatian. The penalty that France were eventually awarded after the referee changed his decision after walking away from the monitor and then being called back would have the average fan moaning like hell if it had been awarded against his team.

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by Belial » Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:03 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:54 pm
That was Hawkeye at fault for the goal, not VAR
Hawkeye was at fault for the failure to 'log' it going over the line....but VAR should have been there to overturn it, technology or otherwise. It was obvious to everyone

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by 4:20 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:43 pm

I can't stand the way the reaction to a goal has been changed. If a goal used to look a bit iffy then a quick look to either the linesman or ref was all that was needed. A rare instance might occur when consultation was necessary but it always felt like it was still in the moment. Now, pretty much however a goal goes in, I'm expecting it to go to VAR, there's an initial second or so where I'm elated for the ball hitting the back of the net but then I'm straight to thinking "wait for VAR, was someone's pube offside? What unseen drama happened in the build-up? Did the nick-o-meter catch the ball brushing over our strikers ring finger 3 passes ago? Etc etc. I don't see how the thrill of a goal in the moment and the existence of VAR can ever be reconciled.

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:51 pm

Belial wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:03 pm
Hawkeye was at fault for the failure to 'log' it going over the line....but VAR should have been there to overturn it, technology or otherwise. It was obvious to everyone
It was obvious, but is VAR able to overturn Hawkeye?
I honestly don't know if it can.

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by KateR » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:07 pm

Belial wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:03 pm
Hawkeye was at fault for the failure to 'log' it going over the line....but VAR should have been there to overturn it, technology or otherwise. It was obvious to everyone
I would agree to a point however it was not obvious to the most important people, the officials, I think this is a fluke and do not expect to ever see that again.

Var and this new handball rule are not good, one is really getting down to minutia rather than the obvious error and the decision yesterday based on the handball rule was pathetic and I think most people agree it should have been a goal in the circumstances it happen. This area I see more controversy to come for sure, I hope during the off season this rule is changed from it's present form to something more practical.

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by dougcollins » Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:39 pm

Change the offside and handball rules (again) and VAR might be acceptable.

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by bobinho » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:13 pm

Why are people still blaming Hawkeye for the goal not being given in the villa/sheff Utd game?

The mistake was the linesman’s. He should’ve flagged and alerted the referee to the fact the ball had crossed the line. He didn’t, and the reason why is very worrying. He didn’t because he thought (or was told) he didn’t need to anymore. Technology would rescue him from the responsibility of having to make a decision. And because the technology failed, the officials were all at sea.

Football has ceased being referee’d on the pitch. He’s merely there to enforce the decisions made in the VAR studio. The Moaner is right on that point.

In my experience, things have been changing for the worse since TV has been able to scrutinise every single action in the game. Even the basics like deciding who the throw in is awarded to has become stage managed. Linesmen used to flag accordingly, but occasionally, the ref would award it the other way. That doesn’t happen anymore. The linesman may well flag, but he now waits for the referee (who may have been 50 yards away when it’s Jon moss) to decide, then flags to agree.

We all thought VAR would make the playing field a bit more level... that hasn’t happened. Other than offside, which is either on or off, most other calls are an opinion, and I think there is still an argument for big clubs getting decisions in their favour that smaller clubs wouldn’t.

As tiger says earlier, the key statement for me (as it should be for everybody, because it’s the guideline) is “clear and obvious error”, for example, Lampards goal in the WC. That’s what VAR should be clearing up, not whether Kane was 3mm offside or not. If it’s neither clear nor obvious, then it simply shouldn’t be considered, and the decision the referee made should stand.

It’s all a bit of a mess really....

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by Ashingtonclaret46 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:23 pm

bobinho wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:13 pm
Why are people still blaming Hawkeye for the goal not being given in the villa/sheff Utd game?

The mistake was the linesman’s. He should’ve flagged and alerted the referee to the fact the ball had crossed the line. He didn’t, and the reason why is very worrying. He didn’t because he thought (or was told) he didn’t need to anymore. Technology would rescue him from the responsibility of having to make a decision. And because the technology failed, the officials were all at sea.

Football has ceased being referee’d on the pitch. He’s merely there to enforce the decisions made in the VAR studio. The Moaner is right on that point.

In my experience, things have been changing for the worse since TV has been able to scrutinise every single action in the game. Even the basics like deciding who the throw in is awarded to has become stage managed. Linesmen used to flag accordingly, but occasionally, the ref would award it the other way. That doesn’t happen anymore. The linesman may well flag, but he now waits for the referee (who may have been 50 yards away when it’s Jon moss) to decide, then flags to agree.

We all thought VAR would make the playing field a bit more level... that hasn’t happened. Other than offside, which is either on or off, most other calls are an opinion, and I think there is still an argument for big clubs getting decisions in their favour that smaller clubs wouldn’t.

As tiger says earlier, the key statement for me (as it should be for everybody, because it’s the guideline) is “clear and obvious error”, for example, Lampards goal in the WC. That’s what VAR should be clearing up, not whether Kane was 3mm offside or not. If it’s neither clear nor obvious, then it simply shouldn’t be considered, and the decision the referee made should stand.

It’s all a bit of a mess really....
bobinho ---your reference to Lampard's goal in the World Cup is interesting because it would have been goal line technology which would have given that and not VAR.
The game was far better when it relied on onfield officials giving the decisions --whether they were right or wrong. At least we knew who was in charge of the game, however, a lot of fans were not happy to accept this and think that technology is the answer to everything. I suppose that if it is black and white then it is the answer, however, football is mainly about opinions and all VAR has done is introduce more opinions ---not good!

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by TVC15 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:37 pm

Firstly let me make it clear that I am happy that this happened to Mourinho....could not have picked a better person to be robbed with a decision like that !

But it was a ridiculous decision and it’s partly because the handball rule is daft. But without VAR it would not have been given by an official even if that was the rule still in place so I can also see why some would call to get rid of VAR.
The rules need changing re hand ball and we also need to have a rethink on VAR which has been pretty horrifically applied this season - luckily for VAR a thing called Covid came along which has taken the attention of VAR and some fans may have forgotten how much it was ruining many games.
I still think we need VAR but need to have a rethink of the offside and hand ball laws and when VAR should intervene in these incidents

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by Jakubclaret » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:51 pm

fidelcastro wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:19 am
We should never have brought it in.
We had to it wasn't really optional, that much bickering & disagreement called for this & the irony isn't lost this as caused more, every single football result should be pending for an hour until after the final whistle allowing an independent panel to review & if necessary to correct any mistakes using all the technology available, takes away some of the excitement but allows consistent time consumed correct decisions,

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by fidelcastro » Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:50 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:51 pm
We had to it wasn't really optional, that much bickering & disagreement called for this & the irony isn't lost this as caused more, every single football result should be pending for an hour until after the final whistle allowing an independent panel to review & if necessary to correct any mistakes using all the technology available, takes away some of the excitement but allows consistent time consumed correct decisions,
Utter drivel.

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by alboclaret » Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:16 am

It's a ridiculous ruling.

But fair play to them they have to keep continuing with it till the end of the season or it isn't consistent with what they have done previously.
I'm sure they will ease the ruling for next season and give the referee on the pitch the chance to make any decisions. All they need to do is ask him if he saw it.
Then he either says yes and I'm happy for it to carry on or no and has a look at it.
But they cant do that before the season finishes.

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by BenWickes » Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:20 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:51 pm
every single football result should be pending for an hour until after the final whistle allowing an independent panel to review & if necessary to correct any mistakes using all the technology available, takes away some of the excitement but allows consistent time consumed correct decisions,
Please tell me you're not being serious! :shock:

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:01 am

BenWickes wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:20 am
Please tell me you're not being serious! :shock:
It's not ideal I never said it was, it's the price you are prepared to pay if you want more consistent correct decisions, with time afforded you are less likely to encounter mistakes, either you want the system to be efficient or you can carry on complaining until the cows come home.

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by BenWickes » Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:09 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:01 am
It's not ideal I never said it was, it's the price you are prepared to pay if you want more consistent correct decisions, with time afforded you are less likely to encounter mistakes, either you want the system to be efficient or you can carry on complaining until the cows come home.
So fans get home unable to celebrate a nervy 1-0 win to find out an hour later they've lost 1-2 after reviewing the match? Can't think of anything that'd kill the game off faster for fans. The problem with VAR is it's all down to interpretation. Human error has always been part of the game. There does need to be some sort of across the board consensus as to what is adjudged offside, handball, deliberate foul etc but reviewing a game and result after the fact is bizarre.
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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:15 am

BenWickes wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:09 am
So fans get home unable to celebrate a nervy 1-0 win to find out an hour later they've lost 1-2 after reviewing the match? Can't think of anything that'd kill the game off faster for fans. The problem with VAR is it's all down to interpretation. Human error has always been part of the game. There does need to be some sort of across the board consensus as to what is adjudged offside, handball, deliberate foul etc but reviewing a game and result after the fact is bizarre.
We've got hawkeye goal line technology & we still can't get it right, that particular circumstance wouldn't happen with my idea, I did say in my first post it does take some of excitement away, either you want the system to work or you don't, you sound as if you want the system to work impeccably but won't or can't make any sacrifices it doesn't & can't work the way you want it to work.

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by BenWickes » Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:25 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:15 am
We've got hawkeye goal line technology & we still can't get it right, that particular circumstance wouldn't happen with my idea, I did say in my first post it does take some of excitement away, either you want the system to work or you don't, you sound as if you want the system to work impeccably but won't or can't make any sacrifices it doesn't & can't work the way you want it to work.
Everyone wants the system to work. There will always be an element of human error. That's always been part of the game. Cutting out the blindingly obvious inconsistencies is something that can be addressed.
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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:32 am

BenWickes wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:25 am
Everyone wants the system to work. There will always be an element of human error. That's always been part of the game. Cutting out the blindingly obvious inconsistencies is addressed.
Well that's a contradiction, you are stating human errors are inevitable & then you go on to state "Cutting out the blindingly obvious inconsistencies is addressed" unless we start replacing humans with faultless robotic referees them errors will always exist. Time is 1 element which affords accuracy, consideration, review & review & group debate & consultation.

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by Roosterbooster » Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:37 am

I think everyone is overthinking it.
Clear and obvious error.
If Stockley Park think a clear and obvious error has been made, then they tell the ref, who looks at the monitor.
Up to him to decide (I find it hard to believe that we are in a position where refs are disallowing goals, giving penalties, and sending people off when they don't even really know why).
Most VAR incidents are pulling up any slight possibility of an infringement. And then taking an age to decide.
How many VAR overrules have been truely clear and obvious?
I may be wrong, but I doubt its that many on the whole.

Keep it simple. And move on
But if it carries on as it is, I think sooner or later the masses will force it out
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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by BenWickes » Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:38 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:32 am
Well that's a contradiction, you are stating human errors are inevitable & then you go on to state "Cutting out the blindingly obvious inconsistencies is addressed" unless we start replacing humans with faultless robotic referees them errors will always exist. Time is 1 element which affords accuracy, consideration, review & review & group debate & consultation.
Not a contradiction at all. Unless absolutely everything is handed over to VAR, which would turn a 90 minute game into 120 minutes. The referee and his assistants are officiating. They will make mistakes and I am okay with that. It's the inconsistencies that occur when it's handed to VAR and they still get it wrong that need ironing out.

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by Roosterbooster » Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:42 am

NottsClaret wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:14 am
The rules are being altered to tie in with VAR, not the other way round.
Spot on

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by bobinho » Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:48 am

I think benwickes has a point there...

Yes there will be blindingly obvious mistakes, and it’s those most people want VAR to address. Somebody introduced the phrase “clear and obvious mistake” when explaining what it was going to help with. Scrutinising the playback for minutes after an event to see if there was an infringement isn’t doing that. It’s trying to make everything black and white and it can’t be, because one mans great tackle is another mans red card. If a player scores and was half a yard offside, scratch it off. If he’s half a millimetre off, leave it as it is, because it doesn’t need ‘fixing’.... it was neither clear nor obvious and imho it’s a damn sight more acceptable than what we’ve ended up with.

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by Ashingtonclaret46 » Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:58 am

I have always said that, if you want VAR to be in charge of the game, and it does appear that the modern fan does want this because they do not wish to accept the onfield decisions, the only way forward is to get rid of onfield officials and officiate the game remotely.
Wouldn't that be fun?
Of course they could use the other option and just keep goal line technology but get rid of VAR totally and let the onfield officials do the job which they have done for years. The referee's decision was always final, like it or like it not, however, it is no longer the case because someone elses' opinion can be given because of VAR. Remember that it is just another opinion because, as bobinho says --it can't be black and white.

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Re: A first. I agree with Jose Mourinho.

Post by dougcollins » Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:01 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:58 am
I have always said that, if you want VAR to be in charge of the game, and it does appear that the modern fan does want this because they do not wish to accept the onfield decisions, the only way forward is to get rid of onfield officials and officiate the game remotely.
Wouldn't that be fun?
Of course they could use the other option and just keep goal line technology but get rid of VAR totally and let the onfield officials do the job which they have done for years. The referee's decision was always final, like it or like it not, however, it is no longer the case because someone elses' opinion can be given because of VAR. Remember that it is just another opinion because, as bobinho says --it can't be black and white.

The tv watchers may want that Ashington, but I've never heard anyone who attends a game express those views.

I was always happy to trust the ref/linos team - I reckon they got a lot less wrong than this shambles.

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