Burnley - No Gibson recall

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Hibsclaret
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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by Hibsclaret » Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:39 pm

Hardly going to be a bargain for someone....a bad egg is always a bad egg in my experience. Strikes me as the type to do well when his own family run the club. We shall see...

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by warksclaret » Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:39 pm

We have had since Christmas to sort this out. Appreciate its more complicated than what we know, but would have thought a mutual termination might be the only answer. There is no way we will recoup the £15m for someone that has hardly played for two years, but we will save over £4m in wages if he is on £40k a week. What makes me laugh is Pullis his manager at the time telling SD "hes a good lad with a lovely attitude"

Sometimes you have to admire the Warnock "school of diplomacy ie " Hi Mr Gestede I know your contract ends on 30 June, would you mind extending it 30 days to help your club out of a difficult situation ??"

"No Mr Warnock I might get injured and ruin my chances of another contract"

"Theres the door son-goodbye, you can leave now". I am sure the Chairman backed him and there is no risk of legal action

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by jrgbfc » Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:51 pm

I think he'll go on to prove himself a very good player, time will tell.

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by Rowls » Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:52 pm

jrgbfc wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:51 pm
I think he'll go on to prove himself a very good player, time will tell.
We already know he's a good player. That's not the issue.

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by wilks_bfc » Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:02 pm

warksclaret wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:39 pm
We have had since Christmas to sort this out. Appreciate its more complicated than what we know, but would have thought a mutual termination might be the only answer. There is no way we will recoup the £15m for someone that has hardly played for two years, but we will save over £4m in wages if he is on £40k a week. What makes me laugh is Pullis his manager at the time telling SD "hes a good lad with a lovely attitude"
The key word in that is mutual.

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:05 pm

jrgbfc wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:51 pm
I think he'll go on to prove himself a very good player, time will tell.
It was odds on you post something like this

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by superdimitri » Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:05 pm

Plenty of time to take a nice long break from work whilst being paid his 30k a week.

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by fidelcastro » Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:05 pm

wilks_bfc wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:02 pm
The key word in that is mutual.
This situation definitely has shades of the Chelsea one with Winston Bogarde.

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by Top Claret » Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:13 pm

I think I read somewhere that he turned down a loan move to Watford in January, if true that is when the preferable hit the fan.

Gibson moping around with his chin on the floor because he isn't getting a game, then he turns down a loan to another Premier league club. I bet Dyche hit the ceiling

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by Nonayforever » Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:19 pm

BenWickes wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:46 pm
Don't think Sean Dyche is the type to air his dirty linen in public. He conducts himself so professionally. It'll stay in-house as it should. If nothing else, that should earn some respect from Gibson as lesser managers would have acted differently.
That is, of course, unless it's about the chairman.

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by tiger76 » Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:23 pm

Woonderbah wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:31 pm
Anyone find it odd that Boro don't want him training there either ?
Yes it's a poor situation as far as we're concerned but Gibson certainly isn't doing his career prospects much good either.
Don't they where have you heard that, unless it's since the management change, i can't imagine Colin being too subtle in making his feelings known.

I couldn't care less about Gibson's future career, but what matters to BFC is trying to cut our losses as much as possible this summer.

However even in our present injury crisis he's persona non grata, if that doesn't tell him his Burnley is over then nothing will.

Our best bet is Watford, or maybe one of the promoted clubs wanting him, if a few are in a bidding war, then we might have a chance of recouping most of the initial outlay, his wages are dead money, and there's nothing we can do about that alas.

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by Burnley1989 » Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:24 pm

Top Claret wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:13 pm
I think I read somewhere that he turned down a loan move to Watford in January, if true that is when the preferable hit the fan.

Gibson moping around with his chin on the floor because he isn't getting a game, then he turns down a loan to another Premier league club. I bet Dyche hit the ceiling
Think it was the other way around and we turned the deal down, could be wrong though

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by Winstonswhite » Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:26 pm

Top Claret wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:13 pm
I think I read somewhere that he turned down a loan move to Watford in January, if true that is when the preferable hit the fan.

Gibson moping around with his chin on the floor because he isn't getting a game, then he turns down a loan to another Premier league club. I bet Dyche hit the ceiling
I think it was the other way round- we didn’t want him playing for a relegation rival.

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by Top Claret » Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:34 pm

Winstonswhite wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:26 pm
I think it was the other way round- we didn’t want him playing for a relegation rival.

So it was Gibson that hit the ceiling

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by Chester Perry » Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:35 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:23 pm

Our best bet is Watford, or maybe one of the promoted clubs wanting him, if a few are in a bidding war, then we might have a chance of recouping most of the initial outlay, his wages are dead money, and there's nothing we can do about that alas.
I was thinking West Ham or Leeds

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:26 pm

Blackrod wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:14 pm
I get this but with a football club you are talking about an expensive asset that is being left to rot. When we were not in the PL the club was desperate for money from fans. There should be some sort of financial accountability to fans. If we were a PLC we would have to disclose further information. It’s not just a free transfer that is homesick or who has had a bustup in the training ground. I accept others have different views though.
No offence but why the f should there be a financial accountability to the fans?
Do you have shares in the club?
If not then quite frankly it isn't your concern what a club does with its staff.

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by icu81b4 » Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:38 pm

Dear Burnley Chairman

I haven't trained with the lads or played a pro game either and can create an argument with my own shadow..... Can you pay me 30k a week also please?

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by timshorts » Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:41 pm

I'm assuming that there is something very odd about this. Let's face it, if there wasn't we could have put him on furlough.

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by ClaretTony » Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:56 pm

Top Claret wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:13 pm
I think I read somewhere that he turned down a loan move to Watford in January, if true that is when the preferable hit the fan.

Gibson moping around with his chin on the floor because he isn't getting a game, then he turns down a loan to another Premier league club. I bet Dyche hit the ceiling
Problem is reading things somewhere - whatever happened was some time before any possible move to Watford if indeed that existed

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by BenWickes » Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:57 pm

Nonayforever wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:19 pm
That is, of course, unless it's about the chairman.
How is he supposed to answer a question about finances in the national spotlight? 'Yeah we have loads of money'. Selling club slaps on £5 million on because they think we have money. Or what he's said. Bearing in mind Sean has said a few times he knows nothing about certain players, we have no money and then go and sign him the next day. Brady being a case in point. Dyche denied everything. Was announced at half time in the next home game. We all know roughly what Dyche's budget is in normal circumstances. It's £15-20 million max, but try to get him for £7 million, even if he's worth £12 million. He knows how to play the media, fans and the board.

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by Woodleyclaret » Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:33 am

Sunderland had a £70,000 a week player who was on a massive contract, who they couldn't shift despite huge debts.
I would question Gibsons desire to play football.
Like Drinky he will become a what might have been player
A free transfer seems to be a sensible option
The thought of paying him for two more yrs is a non starter

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by BenWickes » Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:59 am

Woodleyclaret wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:33 am
Sunderland had a £70,000 a week player who was on a massive contract, who they couldn't shift despite huge debts.
I would question Gibsons desire to play football.
Like Drinky he will become a what might have been player
A free transfer seems to be a sensible option
The thought of paying him for two more yrs is a non starter
Therein proves my point. Burnley have dealt with this in a professional manner. We've not forced him to train with the youths. We've not dragged his name through the mud. It's mutually beneficial that the lad is found a club and quickly. One day, when he grows up; he'll maybe realise Dyche actually saved his career. Maybe I'm shooting fish in a barrel but I think I am pretty close when I say Gibson expected to be a starter ahead of Mee. That sort of attitude is the wrong attitude. Especially at a club like ours where we have no prima donna's.

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:17 am

Woodleyclaret wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:33 am
Sunderland had a £70,000 a week player who was on a massive contract, who they couldn't shift despite huge debts.
I would question Gibsons desire to play football.
Like Drinky he will become a what might have been player
A free transfer seems to be a sensible option
The thought of paying him for two more yrs is a non starter
That was Jack Rodwell.

They didn't put in relegation clauses, there was a clear and obvious rift between player and manager, Rodwell telling the media he wanted to play and club saying he wasn't fit etc.

That was a complete shambles of a situation but different to that between Burnley and Gibson.

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by MACCA » Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:29 am

ClaretTony wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:56 pm
Problem is reading things somewhere - whatever happened was some time before any possible move to Watford if indeed that existed
Which with hindsight makes the decision to reject any move out loan or otherwise a strange one.

Although whether the watford interest was just that, I'm sure as damn someone ( Boro at very least ) would have taken him on loan paying zero wages ( Probably could have got 10k a week minimum out of his uncle I'm sure ) which would have least kept him fit and in the window.

This situation was the least beneficial for every party involved.

The situation is right pigs ear, but I'm sure the blame can be shared around a few parties as to why it got so bad, and how we ended up in this situation.

It will all come out in the wash 1 day
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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by Barry_Chuckle » Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:42 am

As a club, we are/were still supporting him and his fitness. I saw him training at the Stockton-on-tees David Lloyd gym in March, he had a bloke in a Burnley polo shirt putting him through his paces.

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:10 am

No party comes out of this very well.

I've no idea who's fault it is but you can see why Garlick won't hand out £15m transfer kitties willy nilly.

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by TVC15 » Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:30 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:10 am
No party comes out of this very well.

I've no idea who's fault it is but you can see why Garlick won't hand out £15m transfer kitties willy nilly.
Do you think he handed over the money for Gibson “willy nilly” ?

Are you saying that the reason he may not be handing out £15m kitties now is because of the Gibson deal ?

My guess is any restrictions he is putting on spend at the moment has got zero to do with Dyche’s performance in the transfer market whilst at Burnley given the income and bottom line profits it has generated year after year under his tenure.

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by RalphCoatesComb » Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:40 am

I'm up for that job and I'll do it for a tenth of his wages.

I can sit on my @rse all day, doing nothing, for £4000 per week.

AND, I'll wear the shirt (Do they do 1st team shirts in XXL?) with the Captain's armband! ;)

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by warksclaret » Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:45 am

The chances of him going anywhere are probably going to be in the North East which is both his home and where he has retreated to. Bruce showed interest in him while at Villa I believe, but I think he would struggle today breaking into the Newcastle defence. That really leaves Championship football at Middlesborough (if they stay up), and in an ideal world we would do an en exchange with either a defender like Fry or a CM. I suspect though if Warnock stays he may not like the way Gibson has behaved

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by NottsClaret » Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:45 am

As we know next to nothing about the background to this, it's no use trying to use it to have a pop at Dyche, the Chairman or the recruiting bods.

Still think that it's underplaying it a bit to suggest it's just 'one of those things' that hasn't worked out. A £15m investment - and a huge ongoing cost - for any business, let alone a football club of our size which still watches every penny to compete - basically going down the drain is going to cause some big questions and friction somewhere.
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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by Funkydrummer » Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:54 am

We may discover the details when Dyche writes his book ! :)

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:55 am

TVC15 wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:30 am
Do you think he handed over the money for Gibson “willy nilly” ?

Are you saying that the reason he may not be handing out £15m kitties now is because of the Gibson deal ?

My guess is any restrictions he is putting on spend at the moment has got zero to do with Dyche’s performance in the transfer market whilst at Burnley given the income and bottom line profits it has generated year after year under his tenure.
Garlick is not stupid, he will learn from mistakes. And that was a big one. Our record signing.

Like you say it's guesswork, but I would say yes, his recent purchases in the transfer market would make me wary about letting him splash a lot of funds. I suppose that's why he brought Rigg in though?

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by Blackrod » Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:55 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:26 pm
No offence but why the f should there be a financial accountability to the fans?
Do you have shares in the club?
If not then quite frankly it isn't your concern what a club does with its staff.
No offence taken. Calm the ‘ f ‘ down.

Point 1 I stated some sort of better explanation wouldn’t go amiss due to it being our most expensive signing and highlighted that fans have put a lot of money into the club. I remember the begging bowls coming out for David Reeves but now the tables are turned it doesn’t matter what fans think. The club is struggling to get paltry sums if money out to these same fans at the moment. I accept others have a different view but I don t like things swept under the carpet.
Point 2 Yes
Point 3 Refer back to point 1

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by TVC15 » Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:02 am

NottsClaret wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:45 am
As we know next to nothing about the background to this, it's no use trying to use it to have a pop at Dyche, the Chairman or the recruiting bods.

Still think that it's underplaying it a bit to suggest it's just 'one of those things' that hasn't worked out. A £15m investment - and a huge ongoing cost - for any business, let alone a football club of our size which still watches every penny to compete - basically going down the drain is going to cause some big questions and friction somewhere.
Of course there will have been discussions between Dyche and Garlick on this.
But buying Gibson was not a “wrong transfer” - it’s a transfer that has gone wrong.
I can’t remember any fans of Burnley or any other club thinking at the time that this was anything but a good bit of business - it’s not like Gibson had a bad reputation / attitude or a dodgy injury record.
With some transfers like Jack Wiltshire, Adebayor and many others down the years there are many fans of all clubs who wonder what is going on and why a club has taken such a big risk knowing that players previous record.

With Gibson - it was nothing like that. In fact it was probably the opposite in that we had picked up a player who not that long before had broken into the England squad. If anything and compared to many other transfers in this league we were getting him on the cheap

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:03 am

Blackrod wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:55 am
No offence taken. Calm the ‘ f ‘ down.

Point 1 I stated some sort of better explanation wouldn’t go amiss due to it being our most expensive signing and highlighted that fans have put a lot of money into the club. I remember the begging bowls coming out for David Reeves but now the tables are turned it doesn’t matter what fans think. The club is struggling to get paltry sums if money out to these same fans at the moment. I accept others have a different view but I don t like things swept under the carpet.
Point 2 Yes
Point 3 Refer back to point 1
Shut up Blackrod. And take your season ticket money refund with you... :? :? :?

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by Blackrod » Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:22 am

I can’t I haven’t got it yet
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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by Borobarmy » Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:29 am

Boro fan here that comes in peace . We are bewildered as you are , hence I’ve come over here to try and get some background . My own opinion is he’s banking on Dyche leaving at end of season ( all the media talk ) and regaining a place in the squad h if you’d have him back ) . Btw best of luck and keep doing what you’re doing 👍
Last edited by Borobarmy on Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by TVC15 » Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:31 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:55 am
Garlick is not stupid, he will learn from mistakes. And that was a big one. Our record signing.

Like you say it's guesswork, but I would say yes, his recent purchases in the transfer market would make me wary about letting him splash a lot of funds. I suppose that's why he brought Rigg in though?
See my last post - the transfer of Gibson was not a mistake at the time. I don’t know anybody who thought that - and I’m sure Garlick was fully behind it.
It just went wrong - and I can’t see how Dyche can be blamed for that.
Don’t think that’s why we brought Rigg in but to be honest I’m never been exactly sure why we did - it’s not exactly the clearest of role descriptions when you hear what SD has said he thinks Rigg is at the club to do.

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:50 am

TVC15 wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:31 am
See my last post - the transfer of Gibson was not a mistake at the time. I don’t know anybody who thought that - and I’m sure Garlick was fully behind it.
It just went wrong - and I can’t see how Dyche can be blamed for that.
Don’t think that’s why we brought Rigg in but to be honest I’m never been exactly sure why we did - it’s not exactly the clearest of role descriptions when you hear what SD has said he thinks Rigg is at the club to do.
I agree to an extent, but Garlick is famous for being for being a miserly businessman.

He won't want to make any mistakes again, never mind big ones. You might argue it happens all the time in football, but from what people tell me, he's not that big of a football man.
Genuine business men seem to struggle with how football is so free with money and carefree.

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by jojomk1 » Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:05 am

Nobody makes a record signing for a reserve CB
When discussions with Gibson first started Mee was still stalling on a contract offer and whilst nothing is guaranteed, Gibson must have seen/been told he had the chance to be Ben's replacement if he joined us
The fact that Mee then decided to sign a new contract when the Gibson deal was almost completed threw this small spanner into the works
Neither Gibson or the club would pull out of the deal at such a late stage which gave us the current situation (we were always in the market for another CB)
As it turns out, Gibson has not been judged as good enough to displace Mee which I am more than happy to accept
It's a situation that cannot be blamed on anyone as far as the original signing is concerned - it was done with the best intentions at the time

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:07 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:55 am
Garlick is not stupid, he will learn from mistakes. And that was a big one. Our record signing.

Like you say it's guesswork, but I would say yes, his recent purchases in the transfer market would make me wary about letting him splash a lot of funds. I suppose that's why he brought Rigg in though?
What a load of nonsense. Where was the mistake? How could anyone have foreseen any issues that might surface 18 months later?

And the guesswork is even more nonsensical.

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by Spike » Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:08 am

He is the most unprofessional player we have ever had! Whatever pay he is getting he is stealing! Should at least be on 20% less
Ben Furlough Gibson

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:08 am

jojomk1 wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:05 am
Nobody makes a record signing for a reserve CB
When discussions with Gibson first started Mee was still stalling on a contract offer
Not true.

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by jojomk1 » Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:13 am

ClaretTony wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:08 am
Not true.
So are you saying that Mee signed his new deal before any discussions started with Gibson

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by BOYSIE31 » Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:16 am

ClaretTony wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:09 pm
What is unbelievable is your suggestion that chairman and manager are at loggerheads over it - it's happened, it happens at other clubs and the chairman fully supported the decision.
He might well support the decision but I bet he certainly is not happy with still paying his wage every month on top of the transfer fee we paid out which will be nothing in return when it eventually gets sorted.

Yet Dyche has the nerve to go on about funds - you could not make this up

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:20 am

ClaretTony wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:07 am
What a load of nonsense. Where was the mistake? How could anyone have foreseen any issues that might surface 18 months later?

And the guesswork is even more nonsensical.
Do you not think there was a mistake?

Maybe just call it Burnley's nicest gesture to another football club and player we have ever done?

It's certainly our most costliest.

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:21 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:50 am
I agree to an extent, but Garlick is famous for being for being a miserly businessman.

He won't want to make any mistakes again, never mind big ones. You might argue it happens all the time in football, but from what people tell me, he's not that big of a football man.
Genuine business men seem to struggle with how football is so free with money and carefree.

With you seemingly knowing Garlick as well as you do, did he decide he isn't prepared to fund signings after agreeing to pay for Rodriguez and Brownhill or before

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:32 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:21 am
With you seemingly knowing Garlick as well as you do, did he decide he isn't prepared to fund signings after agreeing to pay for Rodriguez and Brownhill or before
I've just rung him up and he said he refuses to pay over 10m for a squad player.
And no more over 30s will be added to the squad. It's not grab a granny night down martholme Grange.





Obviously a joke before someone thinks I'm best mates with him.

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:35 am

jojomk1 wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:13 am
So are you saying that Mee signed his new deal before any discussions started with Gibson
I’m saying that Mee’s deal was agreed, and he was never stalling, before we started talks with Gibson. We moved for Gibson only after the Mawson deal fell through.

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Re: Burnley - No Gibson recall

Post by TVC15 » Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:42 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:20 am
Do you not think there was a mistake?

Maybe just call it Burnley's nicest gesture to another football club and player we have ever done?

It's certainly our most costliest.
Did you think it was a mistake at the time we signed him ?
Did anyone ?

You cannot describe something as a mistake because of unforeseen circumstances that happened afterwards. Every signing carries an element of risk and I did not hear of anyone calling this out as a risky signing.
If we had signed Jack Wiltshire there would have been a number of people saying at the time that this was a mistake based on his previous fitness record and dubious drinking and smoking habits - anybody who predicted that was a mistake for West Ham to do this has been proven right.
Nobody as far as I could see predicted that for Gibson.

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