Every adult to be given £500 voucher

[cricketfieldclarets]

And every child £250.

Seems like a sensible move and one that will help lots of businesses (and individuals) and in the grand scheme of things not cost the government a lot.

Might even be able to get a season ticket

In seriousness that would be over £20m into Burnley’s local economy.


https://www.lancs.live/news/lancashire- ... 0-18552838

[ClaretAndJew]

Thread title : every adult to be given

Article : every adult could be given.

[ClaretDiver]

I don't think this will happen. It is a proposal by one of those thinky tank things....how on earth can the government continue to give away free money without some exceptionally massive tax hikes next year?

[karatekid]

Most gov'ts have wads of reserve cash put aside for unforseen events. It's a dry powder store.

[clarethomer]

Interesting concept.

There has been calls to reduce VAT - this doesn't necessarily help people on the lowest incomes through what they spend their money on.

There have been calls to provide stimulus payments like the US but as the report alludes to, it will not guarantee a boost to the economy

This appears to be a good compromise - albeit like anything the devil is in the detail. From what I have read on the topic there are fears that people will be "flogging at a discount" so they can spend it on things that they want to rather than what it is limited to.

I'm not sure if flogging at a discount is an issue if someone wants to spend money on an industry which needs the money. Will be interesting to see what happens.

[Rowls]

A cut in VAT would be a lot more sensible and easier too.

It's all possible now that we've left the EU.

[clarethomer]

It's not that simple though - They tried that in 2008 when they reduced the then 17.5% VAT rate to 15% which nobody seems to be able to agree on how much of a difference that made.

So if you take something that costs £48 now - that would be £40 plus VAT. If you reduced that down to 15% then it would make it £46. That won't get me rushing out.

When you think that not everything that qualifies for 20% VAT and the lowest-income families - will spend more money on items which don't attract 20% VAT. Children's clothes, food, energy, car seats etc then a VAT cut doesn't help in the same way.

The costing of doing this isn't easy either to measure because if you say the VAT reduction whilst simple to implement, costs (made up figure) £10bn to the treasury - it may only boost sales minimally. Therefore the net cost might be (again made up figure) £9bn.

Whereas you could do something more radical like issue vouchers that need to be spent which only cost you if you spend them and it's likely you could mandate these in areas where VAT will then be payable so you could spend £10bn on vouchers which if they are all spent, would net you £2bn in VAT at 20%

If you also aim these at the industries that need the money most, then you are potentially saving jobs, therefore reducing unemployment benefit costs and increasing tax receipts through the tax and contribution to society.

It's complicated and whilst my figures are made up - conceptually you start to appreciate why the think tank's ideas may actually not be the most ridiculous idea.

[cricketfieldclarets]

A cut in VAT would be a lot more sensible and easier too.

It's all possible now that we've left the EU.

I don’t necessarily agree. This is something tangible that people can spend. A feel good thing. For consumers and business alike.

And if there’s a risk or worry people may trade them. Either make it impossible to do so. Or just let them do it because either way the £500 would still get invested.

[conyoviejo]

And every child £250.

Seems like a sensible move and one that will help lots of businesses (and individuals) and in the grand scheme of things not cost the government a lot.

Might even be able to get a season ticket

In seriousness that would be over £20m into Burnley’s local economy.


https://www.lancs.live/news/lancashire- ... 0-18552838

[Zlatan]

I think vouchers that can be redeemed at industries that need the help currently would be a good idea, for example the theatre; zoos; leisure etc - less so for food or clothing IMO

[HunterST_BFC]

A cut in VAT would be a lot more sensible and easier too.

It's all possible now that we've left the EU.

I can't agree with that.

... A VAT cut would only really benefit those who already have more money and who are already able to spend more.

[Rowls]

I can't agree with that.

... A VAT cut would only really benefit those who already have more money and who are already able to spend more.

Proportionally helps the poor more than the rich.

[Billy Balfour]

A cut in VAT would be a lot more sensible and easier too.

It's all possible now that we've left the EU.

It was possible before. In 2008 VAT was cut to 15%.

[Billy Balfour]

Oops. Someone else mentioned it upthread.

[Rowls]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 04331.html

A cut in VAT would proportionally benefit the poor much more than the rich.

[Rowls]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15519727

The figures vary but the story is the same.

[Billy Balfour]

Proportionally helps the poor more than the rich.

Yes it does. VAT is a regressive tax.

[Whitgord]

Surely the last thing the government want to do at the moment is cut their tax income. On the other hand, giving people money to spend should increase their tax revenue (more purchases = more vat revenue).

[TheFamilyCat]

Sounds like Corbynimics to me.

[Billy Balfour]

Every household to get a free Twix.

[HunterST_BFC]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15519727

The figures vary but the story is the same.

Not exactly.
"Proportion of disposable income spent on VAT" is the point and relative to total £

eg
10% of very little is still far less than 5% of quite a lot.

[Rowls]

Not exactly.
"Proportion of disposable income spent on VAT" is the point and relative to total £

eg
10% of very little is still far less than 5% of quite a lot.

Yet 10% is a bigger proportion than 5%.

We all know how it works, at least most of us do. But the poor benefit more, proportionally, if VAT is cut.

[HunterST_BFC]

Yet 10% is a bigger proportion than 5%.

We all know how it works, at least most of us do. But the poor benefit more, proportionally.

...and the richer benefit more financially.

[clarethomer]

This is why it's complicated Rowls.

You cut VAT and yes the lowest earners benefit and remember council tax is also part of what drives the tax paid more disproportionate.

The government want to do something that has the purpose of stimulating the economy.

When you look at where the lowest-earners spend their money and where the unemployment is likely to come from if they get this wrong, those that are worst off in work will have no money to spend to benefit from the VAT cut.

[Rowls]

...and the richer benefit more financially.

If you want to level down the rich, try your policy.

If you want to help the poor, cut VAT.

[clarethomer]

Sounds like Corbynimics to me.

That would give everyone £1000 per month for life (and free broadband too)

[martin_p]

If you want to level down the rich, try your policy.

If you want to help the poor, cut VAT.

And if you want to stimulate the worse affected areas of the economy hand out vouchers that can only be spent in those areas. Certainly more effective than a VAT cut.

[Billy Balfour]

Well if there is going to be £500 handouts to adults - it should only go to those who are on the electoral register. This will help stop fraud.

[clarethomer]

If you want to level down the rich, try your policy.

If you want to help the poor, cut VAT.

How will giving someone a 5% VAT cut help someone on Zero hours contract working in the hospitality industry.

The majority of their pay is likely to be spent on;

rent/mortgage

council tax

food

utilities

transport

Now tell me which of these a reduction in VAT will help?


If you then look at those who are not on minimum wage and has some disposable income.

Will they go and buy a pair of jeans that used to cost £48 which now cost £46?

Would they go into a hotel or restaurant because there was £2-5 off the cost?

Do you think the VAT cut would stimulate people to keep the business open in which the person works at?

So when the business has to say - there are no hours this week, or even worse there is no job. That VAT cut looks a real winner then.

[Burnleyareback2]

I’m sure what the retail sector at all levels needs right now is a VAT change and all the admin involved in changing prices on clothes, on shelves and on their systems.

[Gordaleman]

I don't think this will happen. It is a proposal by one of those thinky tank things....how on earth can the government continue to give away free money without some exceptionally massive tax hikes next year?

Why not, America has been printing helicopter money for years. Have you seen their debt? They can't even pay the interest on it.

[Billy Balfour]

I just hope that sometime in the future I don't end up needing a wheelbarrow full of banknotes in order to buy a loaf of bread.

[dougcollins]

I just hope that sometime in the future I don't end up needing a wheelbarrow full of banknotes in order to buy a loaf of bread.

Pre-Nazi Germany.

[boatshed bill]

Daft, I call it.

[claret2018]

A reduction in VAT doesn’t mean the retailer has to charge a lower gross price. The retailer could pocket the increase in the net price which is offset by the reduction in VAT.

Whilst some “high profile” items selling price would be reduced, I’m sure lots wouldn’t. Especially food, where the application of VAT is a minefield anyway.

[tim_noone]

I just hope that sometime in the future I don't end up needing a wheelbarrow full of banknotes in order to buy a loaf of bread.

No...cash is frowned upon now. Card only!

[Stanbill05]

Apart from food and bills vouchers (ie money) I can’t currently picture a voucher I’d actually want. Maybe I lack imagination. Maybe I don’t want or need more stuff...

Actually, You can never have too many tools, I could spend money on tools I don’t really need if that part of the economy needs a boost. Otherwise, meh.

[Vegas Claret]

these ******* spend a bajillion pounds dropping bombs on people - here's your 500 quid. Pathetic

[Jakubclaret]

It’s far more sensible to just distribute the £30billion out evenly to the hardest hit industries for the greatest beneficial impact instead of handing out £500 vouchers to everybody to spend, that way it’s directly ensuring maximum help to the desperate parts of the economy that need the boost as opposed to wily nily assisting some sections of the population that are already in fine financial mettle.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Apart from food and bills vouchers (ie money) I can’t currently picture a voucher I’d actually want. Maybe I lack imagination. Maybe I don’t want or need more stuff...

Actually, You can never have too many tools, I could spend money on tools I don’t really need if that part of the economy needs a boost. Otherwise, meh.

Essentials. Do your food shop. Pack the freezer. Buy local. Butchers or grocers or fishmongers etc.

[cricketfieldclarets]

It’s far more sensible to just distribute the £30billion out evenly to the hardest hit industries for the greatest beneficial impact instead of handing out £500 vouchers to everybody to spend, that way it’s directly ensuring maximum help to the desperate parts of the economy that need the boost as opposed to wily nily assisting some sections of the population that are already in fine financial mettle.

There is / will be plenty of organisations that are making redundancies right now using COVID as a convenient, legal opportunity to treat staff like ****.

The voucher scheme would be a feel good factor for all (well most. Obviously some exceptions on this thread) and allow people to invest the money in a place they choose. And kickstart businesses worse affected.

Some people won’t have had a penny spare for a long time. Helping individuals help businesses seems a far better way to go about it to me.

[TheFamilyCat]

It’s far more sensible to just distribute the £30billion out evenly to the hardest hit industries for the greatest beneficial impact instead of handing out £500 vouchers to everybody to spend, that way it’s directly ensuring maximum help to the desperate parts of the economy that need the boost as opposed to wily nily assisting some sections of the population that are already in fine financial mettle.

Businesses have already had significant financial support. What will they use the money for? Pay their staff while there is no income and just delay the inevitable? Giving people money to spend makes much more sense; it gets them back into the town centres and into shops, while doing so paying for parking or using public transport; stopping off for a coffee, lunch or a pint. Some people may choose to spend more than the £500 voucher. The economy would benefit much more from this scheme.

[martin_p]

This will never happen by the way, so it’s a slightly pointless discussion.

[Billy Balfour]

No...cash is frowned upon now. Card only!

Heh. But what about my wheelbarrow? It has to be worth a packet of biscuits.

[Billy Balfour]

There's now talk of a stamp duty holiday up to £500,000. I think that dropping £500 into people's pockets would be more beneficial to the winder economy, especially the hospitality industry.

Also, a stamp duty holiday up £500.000 would favour the south east rather than the worst hit regions in England.

[Leisure]

Most gov'ts have wads of reserve cash put aside for unforseen events. It's a dry powder store.

But bet their stores have less in them than BFC's!

[gtclaret]

How will giving someone a 5% VAT cut help someone on Zero hours contract working in the hospitality industry.

The majority of their pay is likely to be spent on;

rent/mortgage

council tax

food

utilities

transport

Now tell me which of these a reduction in VAT will help?


If you then look at those who are not on minimum wage and has some disposable income.

Will they go and buy a pair of jeans that used to cost £48 which now cost £46?

Would they go into a hotel or restaurant because there was £2-5 off the cost?

Do you think the VAT cut would stimulate people to keep the business open in which the person works at?

So when the business has to say - there are no hours this week, or even worse there is no job. That VAT cut looks a real winner then.

Practical common sense, pointing out the reality, not figure juggling the make out something that isn't

[Jakubclaret]

There is / will be plenty of organisations that are making redundancies right now using COVID as a convenient, legal opportunity to treat staff like ****.

The voucher scheme would be a feel good factor for all (well most. Obviously some exceptions on this thread) and allow people to invest the money in a place they choose. And kickstart businesses worse affected.

Some people won’t have had a penny spare for a long time. Helping individuals help businesses seems a far better way to go about it to me.

The whole idea is to help the businesses really struggling & not in particular the general public if you can bothered to read the link supplied, some people have already been receiving 80% whilst off furloughed & in the event of redundancy will probably be eligible for a payout & immediate government benefits in them circumstances so so far I think it's not been a bad little number in the circumstances & the taxpayers propping up the unfortunate affected have done enough already, the £30billion can be directly ploughed into the businesses maybe reducing their overheads & positionally offering retail discounts as a result or even generating job vacancies, we need recruitment drives & the cost of living to be substantially lower for this "feel good" factor to have any purpose or serve any improvement, £500 vouchers won't address the bigger issues.

[alboclaret]

Adult vouchers ...
Sound good to me.....spearmint rhinos, happy days

[martin_p]

The whole idea is to help the businesses really struggling & not in particular the general public if you can bothered to read the link supplied, some people have already been receiving 80% whilst off furloughed & in the event of redundancy will probably be eligible for a payout & immediate government benefits in them circumstances so so far I think it's not been a bad little number in the circumstances & the taxpayers propping up the unfortunate affected have done enough already, the £30billion can be directly ploughed into the businesses maybe reducing their overheads & positionally offering retail discounts as a result or even generating job vacancies, we need recruitment drives & the cost of living to be substantially lower for this "feel good" factor to have any purpose or serve any improvement, £500 vouchers won't address the bigger issues.

The point being made was that £500 in someone’s pocket to be spent in a town or city centre is likely to generate more than £500 for businesses if people are also spending money not covered by the voucher in other businesses while they are shopping. Or with a £500 voucher maybe that £750 TV that someone had their eye on and couldn’t afford suddenly comes into reach and the business is getting £750 rather than £500.