Premier League confirms wrong penalty decisions in all Thursday games

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DCWat
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Re: Premier League confirms wrong penalty decisions in all Thursday games

Post by DCWat » Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:03 pm

The ex players argument is OK but when the average fan knows full well the decisions have been ridiculous, it begs the question, what the hell is up with the referees in the VAR office.
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BenWickes
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Re: Premier League confirms wrong penalty decisions in all Thursday games

Post by BenWickes » Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:05 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:58 pm
I know, i'd still rather have a person who has played the game make the decisions though.

As it is, it's like having a private pilot who has 20 hours experience flying a light aircraft in perfect weather deciding if a 747 pilot with 30 years experience is doing it wrong. Even if on the odd occasion they get the decision wrong or you don't agree you go with the experience every single time.

Imagine if Dyche left and I got the job because I played football but wasn't good enough to be a professional - you go with experience for a reason, there aren't many managers who didn't play professionally

I also think the ability to draw lines needs to be removed - if it's not clear and obvious then you are onside, if we need 5 mius to draw multiple lines then it is clearly not clear and obvious.
Can't disagree with that. Tim Cahill suggested having ex-players in the VAR room giving advice to balance it out. Might be worth looking at. However. As you said only if clear and obvious and this offside by a lick off polish on the boots is bullsh*t. Should be a clear and obvious gap.
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Re: Premier League confirms wrong penalty decisions in all Thursday games

Post by Vegas Claret » Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:24 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:03 pm
Offside is the only decision which VAR can correctly rule on because it is black and white
Fouls, tackles etc. are all down to opinions both on the field and off it.
but even that is limited by the technology, they can't draw perfectly straight lines, what resolution monitors are they looking at to determine which pixel to make the judgement on ? - you cannot possibly say that the offside decision is black and white under those circumstances

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Re: Premier League confirms wrong penalty decisions in all Thursday games

Post by tiger76 » Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:31 pm

Collina speaks the truth again, well done to him. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53367746

DCWat
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Re: Premier League confirms wrong penalty decisions in all Thursday games

Post by DCWat » Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:37 pm

Collina should set up a school for referees and charge fortunes to each league for his graduates.

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Re: Premier League confirms wrong penalty decisions in all Thursday games

Post by BenWickes » Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:40 pm

Oh for a referee of Collina's abilities these days. He was an outstanding referee.
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Re: Premier League confirms wrong penalty decisions in all Thursday games

Post by Vegas Claret » Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:47 pm

"Video assistant referees must not show the "wrong kind of solidarity" with colleagues by failing to correct their mistake"

and that is my main argument for having ex-players do it

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Re: Premier League confirms wrong penalty decisions in all Thursday games

Post by Ashingtonclaret46 » Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:52 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:24 pm
but even that is limited by the technology, they can't draw perfectly straight lines, what resolution monitors are they looking at to determine which pixel to make the judgement on ? - you cannot possibly say that the offside decision is black and white under those circumstances
Which shows you just what a waste of time VAR is because it can't be relied on for anything in that case.
Suggestions that ex-players hsould be in assisting the VAR operator etc. ---does this mean that we are going to officiate by committee?

The only way that it will work is for every decision to be made off the field of play. Get rid of the onfield officials and do it on a screen somewhere in the stand. That should please the fans, particularly when they tweak the Laws of the Game once agan just to accommodate any further changes.
I look forward to the perfect game when every decision is 100% and the fans are happy, however, I won't hold my breath.

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Re: Premier League confirms wrong penalty decisions in all Thursday games

Post by Vegas Claret » Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:54 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:52 pm
Which shows you just what a waste of time VAR is because it can't be relied on for anything in that case.
Suggestions that ex-players hsould be in assisting the VAR operator etc. ---does this mean that we are going to officiate by committee?

The only way that it will work is for every decision to be made off the field of play. Get rid of the onfield officials and do it on a screen somewhere in the stand. That should please the fans, particularly when they tweak the Laws of the Game once agan just to accommodate any further changes.
I look forward to the perfect game when every decision is 100% and the fans are happy, however, I won't hold my breath.
I wouldn't have refs doing VAR full stop, read the article above, Collina is spot on

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Re: Premier League confirms wrong penalty decisions in all Thursday games

Post by BenWickes » Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:03 pm

I don't think fans want to be 100% happy. Half the draw of the game is the controversy and dodgy decision that you hope goes your way. That togetherness that explodes in a stadium. We accept that it kind of, or at least should; even itself out. Then VAR came along. There needs to be clarity on clear and obvious and get people in who have some understanding of the game. Advise and come to a mutual decision. Stop faffing about with millimetres. Concentrate on getting the big ones right. That's why it was introduced. That said they are still out there. Pundits (ex players) suggesting it was a foul, then another says it wasn't. It'll never be perfect. Just make it unanimous with more knowledgeable people and still let the referee on the field make the final decision after seeing it again himself on a monitor. Better still, let the whole crowd see it as in the rugby, mentioned by someone else.

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Re: Premier League confirms wrong penalty decisions in all Thursday games

Post by Ashingtonclaret46 » Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:05 pm

I have read the Collina article and also spoken to some of our referees who have been on the various courses which he ran, in conjunction with FIFA, when VAR was introduced. He has come out and said this now, however, he never said it in the first place when VAR was introduced and he does not give a definitive answer as to what should happen now.

You only become a better referee by getting a lot of experience, however, in this country now there are more and more local leagues which have gone out of existence, therefore, there are less opportunities for those who wish to take up refereeing.
Consequently, this will mean that less referees will be coming through because there is not the same interest in becoming a referee and many that do get their ticket just pack it in very early on in their career because of abuse, particularly from the touchline, in fact, there have been quite a number of referees who have been assaulted.
So it you do not get referees coming throught the system and then, even those that do are told that they would be on the field to make decisions, however, their decision will not be final because there will be a committee meeting looking at a screen to decide if the decision can be accepted, you can see why people like myself, who used to mentor young referees just gave it up as a bad job because we could not answer their questions relating to VAR.

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Re: Premier League confirms wrong penalty decisions in all Thursday games

Post by BenWickes » Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:11 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:05 pm
I have read the Collina article and also spoken to some of our referees who have been on the various courses which he ran, in conjunction with FIFA, when VAR was introduced. He has come out and said this now, however, he never said it in the first place when VAR was introduced and he does not give a definitive answer as to what should happen now.

You only become a better referee by getting a lot of experience, however, in this country now there are more and more local leagues which have gone out of existence, therefore, there are less opportunities for those who wish to take up refereeing.
Consequently, this will mean that less referees will be coming through because there is not the same interest in becoming a referee and many that do get their ticket just pack it in very early on in their career because of abuse, particularly from the touchline, in fact, there have been quite a number of referees who have been assaulted.
So it you do not get referees coming throught the system and then, even those that do are told that they would be on the field to make decisions, however, their decision will not be final because there will be a committee meeting looking at a screen to decide if the decision can be accepted, you can see why people like myself, who used to mentor young referees just gave it up as a bad job because we could not answer their questions relating to VAR.
Totally get your side btw! My brother and father used to be local referee's. It takes a special type to be a referee. The abuse they get at local level is only the tip of the iceberg. If they cracked down on this at all levels, starting at the top; where we see professionals abusing officials and surrounding them. Yet again. Rugby is a prime example, rarely, if ever; is a rugby ref abused. Respect. That needs to be at all levels.
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Ric_C
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Re: Premier League confirms wrong penalty decisions in all Thursday games

Post by Ric_C » Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:09 pm

After the Palace game, 99% of pundits thought the Ayew smack was a red, even Dermot Gallagher! In fact the only one who didn't was Ally McCoist, who dug himself into a hole and refused to budge 😂

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Re: Premier League confirms wrong penalty decisions in all Thursday games

Post by dougcollins » Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:47 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:03 pm
Offside is the only decision which VAR can correctly rule on because it is black and white
Fouls, tackles etc. are all down to opinions both on the field and off it.
Though that is dependent on which offside laws are in use.

The current ones are really not holding up to scrutiny.

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Re: Premier League confirms wrong penalty decisions in all Thursday games

Post by rob63 » Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:34 pm

Colburn_Claret wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:10 pm
VAR works all over the world, it's only in this country that the powers that be make a pigs ear of it.
They need to do away with the studio crap. The man on the pitch needs to make all the calls, and use the pitch side monitor for close calls.
They need to do away with stupid lines, that have half a toe nail offside. If the ref can't pick it up with the naked eye it should be classed as onside.
They could also give the managers 3 shouts at reviews. Like cricket, if you call it wrong, you lose a review.
How the hell do we make something so simple, appear so complicated.
Because we're British :lol:

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Re: Premier League confirms wrong penalty decisions in all Thursday games

Post by rob63 » Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:01 am

BenWickes wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:40 pm
Oh for a referee of Collina's abilities these days. He was an outstanding referee.
When I first saw VAR talking about being introduced, I assumed it would be a good thing & commonsense for experienced refs who can no longer pass the fitness tests manning the VAR screens with their more athletic successors on the field. Instead we've got current refs manning VAR monitors when they're not pitchside.

This will encourage them to find solidarity with their mates especially with the ludicrous 'clear & obvious' instruction, I know I'd rather have someone like Collina monitoring the game at Stockley Park rather than the shower they have now!

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Re: Premier League confirms wrong penalty decisions in all Thursday games

Post by Hibsclaret » Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:04 am

rob63 wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:01 am
I know I'd rather have someone like Collina monitoring the game at Stockley Park rather than the shower they have now!
I think I’d rather have Stevie Wonder doing it than the shower they have now tbh

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Re: Premier League confirms wrong penalty decisions in all Thursday games

Post by KevWebstersBomber » Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:08 am

ClaretTony wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:50 pm
I'm still not convinced on that - I remain sure they forgot to switch it on.
In that Sheff Utd game against Villa the refs watch buzzed at half time to signal a goal.

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Re: Premier League confirms wrong penalty decisions in all Thursday games

Post by Barry_Chuckle » Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:14 am

KevWebstersBomber wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:08 am
In that Sheff Utd game against Villa the refs watch buzzed at half time to signal a goal.
Allegedly.

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