England’s Number 1

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mikeS
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England’s Number 1

Post by mikeS » Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:02 am

Vote vote vote ... BBC Sport site
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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by Funkydrummer » Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:07 am

Get voting boys and girls.

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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by rincon » Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:20 am


cricketfieldclarets
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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:24 am

Has to be between pope and Henderson for me.

Can’t understand why McCarthy would be anywhere near. Always looks like an accident waiting to happen.

Ramsdale looks to have a decent future although hard to judge as when he’s come in Bournemouth have ended up struggling.

Pickford is still a decent keeper. But he’s too erratic.

Foster has always been consistent and seems a good character. But he’s not the future and already retired once.

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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by Leisure » Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:30 am

Unfortunately Pope's kicking will make it hard for him to be chosen as the England no. 1. It was quite poor yesterday.

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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by IanMcL » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:53 am

You could be right Leisure, unfortunately, for Nick.

He is by far the best goalkeeper, however, Pickford is Southgate's favourite, despite being pretty average nowadays and Henderson is 'young and very good', which is exactly how Southgate likes his players.

Pope is not that old and vastly experienced. Great keepers improve with experience and age. Young agile guys often do not. When their agility goes, they are lacking.

Pickford is such a keeper and wuth a very suspect emotional response, on the pitch. Dodgy keeper!

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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by Hibsclaret » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:21 am

The most important thing for a keeper is consistency and limited mistakes. It should, therefore, be Pope or Henderson.

The kicking issue will mean Pickford gets it which is a bad decision tbh.

I heard Rio Ferdinand banging on about Pickford yesterday, saying his tournament experience would be the biggest issue. Just because he did quite well in one tournament doesn’t mean he is ever that far from a mistake...

You just have to look at the high profile mistakes he has made such as in the Merseyside Derby to know that he is capable of bad errors in important games.

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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by PremierLeagueClass » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:31 am

Fortunately, of all goalkeeping attributes, kicking is the least important and the easiest to improve.

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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by Gordaleman » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:47 am

As you will all be aware, the BBC yesterday did a three 'Goalkeeping' charts following Pope's display and Pickford came out bottom of every one. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53377564 However, the only chart that Pope came top of, was commanding his area, i.e. coming for crosses. Henderson came top of the others. Of course, coming for crosses is very important and it disrupts a lot of attacks, but does it compensate for being second in all the other charts? I don't think so.

So although Popey is a fantastic goalkeeper these days, it would appear that Henderson is a bit better.

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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by Wile E Coyote » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:05 pm

Leisure wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:30 am
Unfortunately Pope's kicking will make it hard for him to be chosen as the England no. 1. It was quite poor yesterday.
Fair enough if you think that Leisure, its all about opinions, but can you explain exactly what you mean by this .

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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by Leisure » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:31 pm

Wile E Coyote wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:05 pm
Fair enough if you think that Leisure, its all about opinions, but can you explain exactly what you mean by this .
On numerous occasions yesterday he either kicked the ball too long or straight out of play.

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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by Gordaleman » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:58 pm

Leisure wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:31 pm
On numerous occasions yesterday he either kicked the ball too long or straight out of play.
And unfortunately, it's not just yesterday. He often does.

This point was aired numerous times when Pope first got the job, and yet little if anything seems to have been done about it. Surely Sean and Billy Mercer know it's a problem for the lad? It's time they addressed it.

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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by Bosscat » Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:11 pm

Sean alluded to Nicks kicking abilities when he said "he has his boots on the wrong feet at times"

Nicks kicking has improved but...

I would rather have a keeper who can make saves like he does, albeit with his feet, punching or catching, than one who is inept at positioning and lets soft goals in, but who can pick out a pin point pass etc etc.

A goal keepers main job is stopping the ball going in the net by whatever means at his disposal.

Nick is very very good at that part of his job... long may that continue 🙂
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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by Vino blanco » Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:23 pm

Pickford just drops another clanger and lets one go between his legs, fortunately pulling it back before it went over the line into the net. England's number 1 ?!!

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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by Bosscat » Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:33 pm

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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by IanMcL » Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:34 pm

Pickford has been caught by time. Lacks the brain power to learn his trade, for later years.

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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by IanMcL » Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:34 pm

ps 62% say Pope.

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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by AlargeClaret » Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:01 pm

Henderson and Pickford were child prodigies (man Utd and Sund) and were miles ahead of their peers .Both were also reknowned for their great feet. I remember Hendo as a kid at Carlisle being trained by Blackburn’s current young and very talented GK coach. Also Pickford could use his feet like he does now when he was 14/15 . Pope’s striking is very good and his feet hardly ever land him in trouble but he’ll never possess “ natural feet” Personally think all this “elite feet” requirement is horsesh1t, as long as your tidy.
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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by Claretitus » Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:13 pm

For Jordan Pickford, wind the clock back 4 years. Who do you get? Joe Hart. Error prone, and a legend in his own mind. Too big for his own boots, an accident waiting to happen. Still getting capped and dining out on his performance in the last 16 shoot out with Columbia 2 years ago. Southgate is short sighted. Pickford is now no 3 at best, behind Pope and Henderson.

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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by superdimitri » Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:18 pm

It's clear Pope is improving his distribution with throwing and rolling it out more. His kicking is improved a little but what's been mentioned above his feet is true.. he won't magically become better than a poor kicker.

Also, if he does get a chance he'll still have to keep it. It's a lot easier to impress for us with a lot less pressure on him. When he plays for his county it's the entire country.

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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by boatshed bill » Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:38 pm

superdimitri wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:18 pm
It's clear Pope is improving his distribution with throwing and rolling it out more. His kicking is improved a little but what's been mentioned above his feet is true.. he won't magically become better than a poor kicker.

Also, if he does get a chance he'll still have to keep it. It's a lot easier to impress for us with a lot less pressure on him. When he plays for his county it's the entire country.

Surely in a decent international team the keeper only needs to kick the ball 10 to 15 yards. Pope's long kicking is a bit erratic but you don't see too many international goalies playing the long ball

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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by IanMcL » Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:40 pm

Hibsclaret wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:21 am
The most important thing for a keeper is consistency and limited mistakes. It should, therefore, be Pope or Henderson.

The kicking issue will mean Pickford gets it which is a bad decision tbh.

I heard Rio Ferdinand banging on about Pickford yesterday, saying his tournament experience would be the biggest issue. Just because he did quite well in one tournament doesn’t mean he is ever that far from a mistake...

You just have to look at the high profile mistakes he has made such as in the Merseyside Derby to know that he is capable of bad errors in important games.
There are several instances of England dumping their number one, after a blunder or two. How Pickford is still there, beats me. Pope or no Pope!

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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by boatshed bill » Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:13 pm

IanMcL wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:40 pm
There are several instances of England dumping their number one, after a blunder or two. How Pickford is still there, beats me. Pope or no Pope!
I can't recall these, which keepers (unless basically coming to an end as internationals anyhow)?

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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by Rileybobs » Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:37 pm

Bear in mind it’s been pretty hard for Southgate to drop Pickford seeing as England haven’t played an international game for about 7 years.

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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by Foulthrow » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:00 pm

How come Butland isn’t in the reckoning these days? Simply because he’s not playing in the prem? Or has his standard of performance dropped?

I haven’t seen him play in a long time so I genuinely don’t know.

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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by boatshed bill » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:05 pm

Foulthrow wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:00 pm
How come Butland isn’t in the reckoning these days? Simply because he’s not playing in the prem? Or has his standard of performance dropped?

I haven’t seen him play in a long time so I genuinely don’t know.
Butland was decent, Foster still plays a good game. Nick Pope is absolutely on top of his game, as is Henderson. Pickford is nowhere at present.
I can see Henderson leapfrogging all of the possibles for the next tournament.

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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by kritichris » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:12 pm

After watching Pickford against Wolves his reaction time seems lacking, I think his England days are ended like Big Joe's.

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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by fatboy47 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:28 pm

Southgate will be fully aware that we have at least 3 better keepers than Prickford.

Whether or not he has the bottle to show the nowty little gobsh1te the door is another matter.

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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by Stalbansclaret » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:40 pm

Foulthrow wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:00 pm
How come Butland isn’t in the reckoning these days? Simply because he’s not playing in the prem? Or has his standard of performance dropped?

I haven’t seen him play in a long time so I genuinely don’t know.
Butland has been very poor for Stoke this season with a number of real howlers. Not a contender.
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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by IanMcL » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:22 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:13 pm
I can't recall these, which keepers (unless basically coming to an end as internationals anyhow)?
Foster, Green and Robinson come immediately to mind.

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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by IanMcL » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:22 pm

Butland is now very average.

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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by superdimitri » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:22 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:38 pm
Surely in a decent international team the keeper only needs to kick the ball 10 to 15 yards. Pope's long kicking is a bit erratic but you don't see too many international goalies playing the long ball
Well hes not great at kicking it short either to be honest. But that is why hes been throwing and rolling the ball out more.

Long distance kicking plays a more important roll when we are up against better sides I think, especially with Kane a target up top. I'll be proud seeing him play for England but given I can't help but sigh when he kicks the ball out so often for us it will be pretty embarrassing to see from an international goalkeeper.

But I don't pick the team, if it were me I'd put Heaton in goal instead as I think hes a more all round option. Pope if preferring someone younger. Definitely not Pickford.

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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by boatshed bill » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:37 pm

IanMcL wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:22 pm
Foster, Green and Robinson come immediately to mind.
Fair enough. I still find it hard to believe that Green ever won a cap.

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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by scouseclaret » Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:52 pm

superdimitri wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:22 pm
Well hes not great at kicking it short either to be honest. But that is why hes been throwing and rolling the ball out more.

Long distance kicking plays a more important roll when we are up against better sides I think, especially with Kane a target up top. I'll be proud seeing him play for England but given I can't help but sigh when he kicks the ball out so often for us it will be pretty embarrassing to see from an international goalkeeper.

But I don't pick the team, if it were me I'd put Heaton in goal instead as I think hes a more all round option. Pope if preferring someone younger. Definitely not Pickford.
I’ve always considered Heaton to be the better keeper, but the sad reality for him is that he’s played about one season’s worth of games in the last 3. He’ll need to prove his fitness again before he’s even considered and by that time he’ll almost certainly be playing in the Championship.

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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by Wile E Coyote » Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:06 am

in pope you have lightning reflexes, amazing blocks, agility, and he reads the game and threats.
Pickford is a ponderous midget, a bad goalkeeper.
so what if pope has a slight flaw kicking, name me any keeper who can launch a kick with pinpoint accuracy ? its nonsense. Pope is the undoubted top dog, and if london based ponce journalists tell you otherwise, then you'll believe anything.
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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by Dressinggown » Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:16 pm

If kicking is Pope's weak area then surely it is an area that can be concentrated on in training.

As long as he keeps performing like he has. Brilliant saves, claiming high balls, positioning, control of the area. We have been blessed with goalkeeping excellence over the last few years.

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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by Quickenthetempo » Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:38 pm

If Pope is so bad at kicking then why haven't the management team told him to kick down the middle of the pitch and get players to stand where it keeps landing?
It's a pretty simple solution.
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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by yorkyclaret » Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:57 pm

If you went to where he kicks it you would be offside.

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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:53 am

yorkyclaret wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:57 pm
If you went to where he kicks it you would be offside.
Maybe Chris Wood would be, but the lightening quick strikeforce of England who run about 10 yards a second would breeze it.

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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by SalisburyClaret » Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:55 am

In Pope's interview last week, he explained that SD had drummed into him how you can change the tempo of games through goal kicks - often his punts out of play are deliberate and some are mis-kicks and some find their mark. The thing is he's using goal-kicks in a different way to other goalkeepers. I'm sure if Gareth wants him to pass it 10 yards to a defender each time he could manage that.
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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by IanMcL » Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:29 am

Yes. Bit of a myth that he can't pass. What he doesn't get involved in, rightly, is the sort of shenanigans which Pickford embroils himself in....and regularly gets caught out!

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Re: England’s Number 1

Post by ChrisG » Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:00 am

Wile E Coyote wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:06 am
in pope you have lightning reflexes, amazing blocks, agility, and he reads the game and threats.
Pickford is a ponderous midget, a bad goalkeeper.
so what if pope has a slight flaw kicking, name me any keeper who can launch a kick with pinpoint accuracy ? its nonsense. Pope is the undoubted top dog, and if london based ponce journalists tell you otherwise, then you'll believe anything.
I reckon Ederson would walk into most Premier League midfields on his passing alone.

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