I think that puts to bed any thought of Liverpool being the best team ever

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:16 pm

They can't break the league record for points with defeat at Arsenal tonight.
Couple that with being out of all the cups means they will have to settle for just being champions.

I know most Liverpool fans will settle for that but boy there was a lot of hype about them being the best.

nyclaret · Post by **nyclaret** » Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:19 pm

Agreed.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:23 pm

Knowing that they were virtually assured of the league before lockdown can't have helped their motivation. Every other team (with the possible exception of Crystal Palace) had something to keep them motivated.

Leisure · Post by **Leisure** » Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:24 pm

I much prefer to watch Man City.

huw.Y.WattfromWare · Post by **huw.Y.WattfromWare** » Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:26 pm

record since restart 3-2-2. not that good at all.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:30 pm

It's all down to psychology.
A normal season with a little more competition from City in the final stages would have seen Liverpool continue their run.
Human nature has taken over, they've lost their spark, their opponents are fired up so the inevitable slump happens.
Anybody crowing about Liverpool's perceived "failure" wants their head looking at.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:39 pm

: Screenshot_20200715_223820_uk.co.bbc.android.sportdomestic.jpg (220.13 KiB) Viewed 3097 times

Is that you Clive?

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:43 pm

They drew and won after lockdown before they became Champions. No point looking at the rest. The city result is the most irrelevant result of the season. They had a 2 day bender when Chelsea beat City a week before they played City themselves. Now with how many £10,000s they’ll be spending on sports science etc, making sure the players eat, sleep right. Having a load of beer before they play the only team that comes close to them in the league goes against everything they put in place to be the best. It’s laughable how many people look at results since and talk them down.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:44 pm

The German Colgate model will have a ready made excuse.

NewClaret · Post by **NewClaret** » Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:49 pm

Gutted they didn’t do us a favour tonight. Was praying for them to stuff Arsenal.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:56 pm

Dyched wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:43 pm
They drew and won after lockdown before they became Champions. No point looking at the rest. The city result is the most irrelevant result of the season. They had a 2 day bender when Chelsea beat City a week before they played City themselves. Now with how many £10,000s they’ll be spending on sports science etc, making sure the players eat, sleep right. Having a load of beer before they play the only team that comes close to them in the league goes against everything they put in place to be the best. It’s laughable how many people look at results since and talk them down.

We're judging them over a full season.

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:09 pm

Result doesn’t matter to Liverpool but it did to us. Probably cost us a couple of million. They were awful tonight against a much weakened Arsenal. Clearly our draw knocked the stuffing out of them

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:13 pm

I don’t think they are the best ever team in premier league era - not because of the last few results but because I think there has been a couple of better teams.
With what they have done in the last 2 seasons though I’d have up there in the top 2 or 3.

You can’t judge them on the games since they won the league though - they’ve got nothing to play for and are out of all cup competitions too so no reason to even stay focused / switched on etc.

They are a brilliant side who have walked this league - and that is a league with a brilliant Man City team in it. I’m not sure there has been many seasons in the last 30 years as the last couple in terms of how dominant City and Liverpool have been and how much better than all the other sides they were.

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:19 pm

FCBurnley wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:09 pm
Result doesn’t matter to Liverpool but it did to us. Probably cost us a couple of million. They were awful tonight against a much weakened Arsenal. Clearly our draw knocked the stuffing out of them

Absolutely. We destroyed their confidence. I think Guddy hit the bar on purpose to boost their confidence.

COBBLE · Post by **COBBLE** » Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:30 pm

Too predictable. If you can deal with their pace you have a chance. City are full of little magicians. By the way I would rate most of our defence higher!

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:55 pm

VVD was already on holiday today

Newcastleclaret93 · Post by **Newcastleclaret93** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:20 am

Tbh they were on a bit of a poor run ever since the Watford game.

It’s almost as if once Watford got that win teams stopped fearing Liverpool.

Athletico embarrassed them in the champions league. and city made a mockery of there premier league parade.

Man City will win the league next year and I imagine there will be a substantial gap between city and Liverpool.

City played nearly the whole season without one of there most influential players (Laporte)

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:44 am

City were complacent. They didn’t replace kompany. Didn’t add to laporte. And didn’t have sufficient backup for him.

This season will have made city even hungrier.

That said if at start of season they could both only have one trophy I’m sure liverpool would take the league and city champions league.

Reality is city could go on and win a treble but miss out on the league.

City on their day are a better side with better quality in most positions. But Liverpool have been built on a solid foundation with energy in midfield and pace and goals up top. Perfect for the premier league.

Liverpool to stay on top have to invest now. And have to make some tough decisions. The very best are ruthless at this. They need to ensure they keep hungry players. And improve on what they have.

If I was Klopp I’d be bolstering that midfield and possibly looking for an upgrade on firminho. Whether they do is another matter.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:45 am

just when we needed them to win.

BenWickes · Post by **BenWickes** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:12 am

COBBLE wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:30 pm
Too predictable. If you can deal with their pace you have a chance. City are full of little magicians. By the way I would rate most of our defence higher!

I said as much the other day. Nullify the pace threat of Mane and Salah and you render Liverpool largely redundant. City, clearly need to tighten up their defence but player for player are far superior to Liverpool. For me. Liverpool didn't win the title as much as City threw it away.

tybfc · Post by **tybfc** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:48 am

BenWickes wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:12 am
I said as much the other day. Nullify the pace threat of Mane and Salah and you render Liverpool largely redundant. City, clearly need to tighten up their defence but player for player are far superior to Liverpool. For me. Liverpool didn't win the title as much as City threw it away.

And now with no fair play rules to even think about City can go out and spend to their heart's content to strengthen for next season.

BenWickes · Post by **BenWickes** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:59 am

tybfc wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:48 am
And now with no fair play rules to even think about City can go out and spend to their heart's content to strengthen for next season.

I don't get this hard on for City. There's lots of clubs who are guilty of cooking the books or finding loopholes. Liverpool included. They almost went out of existence overnight in 2010. There's lots of clubs flouting the rules. I am merely stating player for player. City are far better. Defence aside, which seems to be their problem.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:02 am

BenWickes wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:12 am
I said as much the other day. Nullify the pace threat of Mane and Salah and you render Liverpool largely redundant. City, clearly need to tighten up their defence but player for player are far superior to Liverpool. For me. Liverpool didn't win the title as much as City threw it away.

“Player for me player far superior”

Allison is Brazil no 1....Ederson no 2.

Only Laporte would get in the Liverpool defence.

Salah and Mane have consistently been better than the city forwards for 2 or 3 seasons now.

City have a better midfield but Henderson has been every bit as good if not better than the £60m Rodri.

Liverpool won the title because they had a better season. Over the last 2 seasons they have had the better team domestically and in the Champions League.

BenWickes · Post by **BenWickes** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:09 am

TVC15 wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:02 am
“Player for me player far superior”

Allison is Brazil no 1....Ederson no 2.

Only Laporte would get in the Liverpool defence.

Salah and Mane have consistently been better than the city forwards for 2 or 3 seasons now.

City have a better midfield but Henderson has been every bit as good if not better than the £60m Rodri.

Liverpool won the title because they had a better season. Over the last 2 seasons they have had the better team domestically and in the Champions League.

I thought I'd made it clear that City's defence was the problem? Have said it several times. Liverpool win that one, despite themselves being heavily reliant on VJD.
You can argue pluses and minuses for Ederson or Allison.
You just basically said what I said regards the rest. Liverpool had a better season. Largely down to Laporte being out but just a poorer defence. City technically are far better.
You make a fair point about Henderson, who fits like a glove in Liverpool's midfield and something City miss. Collectively, City should be streets ahead. Something Pep needs to address.

andyh · Post by **andyh** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:10 am

If City win the Champions League they may not even be the best team this season. Liverpool last season claimed they won the top prize. Well the boot is now on the other foot.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:12 am

BenWickes wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:59 am
I don't get this hard on for City. There's lots of clubs who are guilty of cooking the books or finding loopholes. Liverpool included. They almost went out of existence overnight in 2010. There's lots of clubs flouting the rules.

Which clubs in the premier league are guilty ?
Liverpool’s net spend over the last few years is significantly less than City (or even United)

I can’t remember Liverpool “almost going out of existence” in 2010 - they were taking over by one of the worlds richest sports groups after their previous owners had a big fall out. They posted losses of less than £20m in 2010. Sounds like you are making stuff up because you don’t like Liverpool - quite a common thing people do.

BenWickes · Post by **BenWickes** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:13 am

andyh wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:10 am
If City win the Champions League they may not even be the best team this season. Liverpool last season claimed they won the top prize. Well the boot is now on the other foot.

They're World Champions apparently. They played a few games against teams most of us have never heard of. They're off to play Neptune in a friendly in August I hear.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:16 am

BenWickes wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:09 am
I thought I'd made it clear that City's defence was the problem? Have said it several times. Liverpool win that one, despite themselves being heavily reliant on VJD.
You can argue pluses and minuses for Ederson or Allison.
You just basically said what I said regards the rest. Liverpool had a better season. Largely down to Laporte being out but just a poorer defence. City technically are far better.
You make a fair point about Henderson, who fits like a glove in Liverpool's midfield and something City miss. Collectively, City should be streets ahead. Something Pep needs to address.

You said “player for player” in your original post and city just need to “tighten up” their defence.

I have just said more then half of the Liverpool team have been better in the last 2 or 3 seasons.

BenWickes · Post by **BenWickes** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:16 am

TVC15 wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:12 am
Which clubs in the premier league are guilty ?
Liverpool’s net spend over the last few years is significantly less than City (or even United)

I can’t remember Liverpool “almost going out of existence” in 2010 - they were taking over by one of the worlds richest sports groups after their previous owners had a big fall out. They posted losses of less than £20m in 2010 - and had little debt. Sounds like you are making stuff up because you don’t like Liverpool - quite a common thing people do.

If you weren't aware Liverpool were about to go into administration in 2010 you need to go read up! They were up the creek without a paddle! This deal you talk of was a very much last ditch, last 24 hour situation. Liverpool were in trouble. I know this as a fact. Nothing to do with my like or dislike of them.

BenWickes · Post by **BenWickes** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:20 am

TVC15 wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:16 am
You said “player for player” in your original post and city just need to “tighten up” their defence.

I have just said more then half of the Liverpool team have been better in the last 2 or 3 seasons.

No they haven't. I agreed and edited accordingly with you on one point. Liverpool haven't been better through half their team at all. City just haven't sorted out their defence. That's the issue you don't get.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:27 am

TVC15 wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:12 am
Which clubs in the premier league are guilty ?
Liverpool’s net spend over the last few years is significantly less than City (or even United)

I can’t remember Liverpool “almost going out of existence” in 2010 - they were taking over by one of the worlds richest sports groups after their previous owners had a big fall out. They posted losses of less than £20m in 2010. Sounds like you are making stuff up because you don’t like Liverpool - quite a common thing people do.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/f ... on-3344139

Just one article on Liverpool nearly going bump

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:33 am

Liverpool are fully deserving Champions this season. Their front three are outstanding but i still think Man City are the better side overall even if though they’ve shown inconsistency this season. They are capable of destroying teams regularly.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:34 am

BenWickes wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:20 am
No they haven't. I agreed and edited accordingly with you on one point. Liverpool haven't been better through half their team at all. City just haven't sorted out their defence. That's the issue you don't get.

Allison been better than Ederson for 2 seasons
VDV better than all City cbs 2 seasons
TAA and Robertson been better than all 4 or 5 City full backs for 2 seasons - at a total cost of £10m compared to city’s full back cost of over £200m
Henderson been better than Rodri
Mane & Sale been better than Aguero and Jesus.

That’s 7 players there

Very easy to argue Gomez and Matic been better than Stones and Otamendi.

KDB and David Silva - brilliant. Bernardo Silva brilliant last year...not so good this year. Marhez vice versa. Fernandinho good last season - not great this year.
Aguero and Jesus both great players but not been as good as Salah and Mane last 2 or 3 seasons....the goal and assists stats would surely prove this.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:39 am

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:27 am
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/f ... on-3344139

Just one article on Liverpool nearly going bump

Yep - didn’t realise or forgotten things had got that bad. But I’m guessing that could happen to other clubs with high levels of debt in the league if their owners decide to pull out

claretonthecoast1882 · Post by **claretonthecoast1882** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:51 am

Liverpool have been miles better but won only 1 of the 4 proper trophies each season, City won 3 last season and could win 3 again this season.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:05 am

Allison and Ederson have been equal in the premier league.
Henderson has been good in a direct Liverpool team but would never get in the City midfield.
Aguero far better than Firminho.
Salah is a great player but far too greedy for a pass pass team.
Mane has been Liverpool's best player for a while but I couldn't split him with Sterling. Both top players.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:07 am

I don’t think performance over a single season makes anyone the best team ever.

ChrisG · Post by **ChrisG** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:21 am

One thing that will massively hinder City next season is the retirement of David Silva. What a genius that lad is.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:38 am

BenWickes wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:20 am
No they haven't. I agreed and edited accordingly with you on one point. Liverpool haven't been better through half their team at all. City just haven't sorted out their defence. That's the issue you don't get.

So are we saying City won't spend much this summer?

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:55 am

BenWickes wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:12 am
I said as much the other day. Nullify the pace threat of Mane and Salah and you render Liverpool largely redundant. City, clearly need to tighten up their defence but player for player are far superior to Liverpool. For me. Liverpool didn't win the title as much as City threw it away.

The trouble is for city is that Liverpool have arguably the best left back and the best right back and the best centre half in the world. City are going to struggle to get a good defence together to come close to matching that.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:55 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:38 am
So are we saying City won't spend much this summer?

Define much in this bizarre football world?

All top clubs have to pay over the odds if they really want a player, but I don't think City or Liverpool buy top stars. They buy players they can improve and fit the team ethos. City also pay a premium for getting deals done quickly.

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:26 am

City will struggle without David Silva just has Chelsea have without Hazard
Pep needs 2 decent cbs and on last night's showing so do Liverpool
I was expecting a 3 point win but only 2 or 3 turned up for Liverpool.Even the keeper sweeper was crap

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:58 am

I’m pretty confident in saying Man Utd will finish above Man City next season.

Please bump this thread when the time is right. I know people like to do that.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:17 am

You can certainly say Guardiola hasn't got good judgement when it comes to defenders. Walker, stones and Mendy are testament to that.

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:21 am

Dyched wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:58 am
I’m pretty confident in saying Man Utd will finish above Man City next season.

Please bump this thread when the time is right. I know people like to do that.

Man United have looked so much better since Fernandez came into the side. He looks like a top quality player.

Greenwood is also looking fantastic and to think he’s not even been moved to his natural position yet (it can only be a matter of time). Bodes well for England too.

I’d assumed he was a Manchester lad but I’ve just Googled and it turns out he’s from Bradford.

I still think they’ll finish below City but it’ll be tighter. It’ll also be interesting to see what Liverpool do next season - squad wise, their depth isn’t huge.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:55 am

Woodleyclaret wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:26 am
City will struggle without David Silva just has Chelsea have without Hazard

I don't think they will struggle without him but no club in the world wouldn't miss a player of the quality of David Silva.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:56 am

TVC15 wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:16 am
You said “player for player” in your original post and city just need to “tighten up” their defence.

I have just said more then half of the Liverpool team have been better in the last 2 or 3 seasons.

City won 2 out of the last 3 titles so thats clearly not true.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:14 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:56 am
City won 2 out of the last 3 titles so thats clearly not true.

It’s about opinions - there’s no true or false.
When Leicester won the title most people would agree that “player for player” they were a number of teams with better players than they had in that season.
Liverpool lost one game last season didn’t they ? And they also won the Champions League. Entirely plausible for some people to have a view that some of their individual players had better seasons than some of City's.

Allison, VDV, TAA, Robertson, Mane and Salah all had great seasons last year too - not sure how for example with the defenders many people would say the City equivalents (all 16 of em !!) had better seasons.

But it’s fine if you disagree !!

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:24 pm

TVC15 wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:14 pm
It’s about opinions - there’s no true or false.
When Leicester won the title most people would agree that “player for player” they were a number of teams with better players than they had in that season.
Liverpool lost one game last season didn’t they ? And they also won the Champions League. Entirely plausible for some people to have a view that some of their individual players had better seasons than some of City's.

Allison, VDV, TAA, Robertson, Mane and Salah all had great seasons last year too - not sure how for example with the defenders many people would say the City equivalents (all 16 of em !!) had better seasons.

But it’s fine if you disagree !!

Over the season, City won both titles. They were more consistent. Liverpool drew way too many

Should City win the cup treble would that mean City have been better?

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:21 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:24 pm
Over the season, City won both titles. They were more consistent. Liverpool drew way too many

Should City win the cup treble would that mean City have been better?

Nope not necessarily - but that’s not really the debate.
The post I was replying to said that “player for player” City are better than Liverpool.
My view was that at least half of the Liverpool team last season and this have been better than the City player(s) in their equivalent position.

It’s hardly an extreme view to take to say Allison, TAA, Robertson, VDV, Mane and Salah have had a better couple of seasons than Ederson, Walker, Mendy, Otamendi, Aguero and Jesus.