Ashley Westwood - The Times

[Conroy92]

Are people that numb they don't realise Westwood was elbowed to the neck/head? As others have said, try taking a blow to there and not reacting.
Sometimes when you've reached your pain threshold you do drop to the floor and move unnaturally, I understand people think he may have been "play acting" but the fact he then gets to his knees and vigorously rubbed the spot shows that he did have pain there and is usually (from personal experience) the sort of thing you do when you come to your senses after taking a whack somewhere.

For those who don't say we "use the dark arts" you only need to look at Barnes playing for the amount of backing in and raising his arse into an opponent to drop to the floor.

Footballs become a bit like cycling for me, if people are gaining an advantage through the use of "dark arts" (doping in cycling) it becomes the norm and everyone does it for a level playing field.

Does this make it wrong? Do we accept it's part of the game? Or do we be the nice guys and finish last every time and play our own way?

[Woonderbah]

One thing we as a club have learned during our prolonged stay in the PL is experience. Running the clock down when winning. Making sure the ref knows we’ve been fouled. Time wasting as required etc. It’s all part of professional football and it has taken some time for us to learn. I bet SD gave our midfield a massive bollocking after the Wolves game for not fouling Traore in midfield when we had 4 players round him. We let him go and it cost us but these days with Burnley that was the exception and not the rule. Watch the top teams. They commit more fouls in the other teams defensive half to stop breakaways than anybody. It’s called being professional. Glad we are learning the tricks of trade. Puts us on a level playing field. If Westy ignored the elbow then I doubt it would have been a red card and who knows what the result might have been. No criticism about our tactics from me. For those who don’t like it I am sure Rovers would welcome your support. I am 100% with CT on this one

Agree with this.
And I'll also add in our early PL forays we would concede free kicks and allow opponents to take them quickly and we'd be caught out of position.
Now a player stands next to the ball preventing a quick take.
As above, it's a learning process.
We're a very good PL team doing what other PL teams do.

[Sozturf7]

Remind me not to buy the Times. Oh just remembered I don't.

[Ashingtonclaret46]

The concensus of opinion on the international referees' board that I post on is that the Westwood incident is 100% red but some considered the Pieters one to be a bit harsh and a yellow would probably have sufficed, although the majority view was two reds.

[Woonderbah]

The concensust of opinion on the international referees' board that I post on is that the Westwood incident is 100% red but some considered the Pieters one to be a bit harsh and a yellow would probably have sufficed, although the majority view was two reds.

Hendrick was sent off at Vicarage Rd in a very similar challenge with his foot rebounding upwards off the ball.
That made the tackle look worse but his other leg was planted.
The 2nd red at Norwich both feet were off the floor and out of control. Could've snapped Pieters' leg.

[Ashingtonclaret46]

Hendrick was sent off at Vicarage Rd in a very similar challenge with his foot rebounding upwards off the ball.
That made the tackle look worse but his other leg was planted.
The 2nd red at Norwich both feet were off the floor and out of control. Could've snapped Pieters' leg.

I can remember Kyle Lafferty being sent off in the FA Cup against Arsenal at the Turf in January 2008 when his foot slipped off the top of the ball and Alan Wiley sent him off much to the consternation of many in the Bob Lord stand where the incident happened right on the touchline.

[ClaretTony]

I can remember Kyle Lafferty being sent off in the FA Cup against Arsenal at the Turf in January 2008 when his foot slipped off the top of the ball and Alan Wiley sent him off much to the consternation of many in the Bob Lord stand where the incident happened right on the touchline.

The Lafferty one was the one we mentioned on Saturday afternoon. Very similar but again he was out of control.

[summitclaret]

I can remember Kyle Lafferty being sent off in the FA Cup against Arsenal at the Turf in January 2008 when his foot slipped off the top of the ball and Alan Wiley sent him off much to the consternation of many in the Bob Lord stand where the incident happened right on the touchline.

Yes but it was in front of the JH stand.

[Middle-agedClaret]

Health alert! Looks as if we have a bit of a myopia spike on UTC.
Well - that’s how it seems to me, reading some of the self-righteous and indignant posts on this subject.
I doubt sincerely that Tommy Conlon has any bias against BFC. He’s a well- established Irish freelance sports writer and ghost writer ( Ronnie Whelan and John Hayes amongst those whose autobiographies he’s “ghosted” And I’ve been talking The Time and Sunday Times for over 30 years (about 20 years fewer then I’ve been a Claret) and I have never seen or read anything anti-Burnley.
As I said on Saturday’s “Red Cards” thread, I think Westwood was sly and deceitful. Whatever the contact, I can’t see how it caused him to react as he did. I think Mr Conlon’s description is both accurate and amusing. (remember humour?)
If you play for a team whose manager, correctly in my view, is very critical of players feigning injury and exaggerating the effects of a tackle - don’t do a dying swan impersonation on live tv.
Burnley FC should be better than that.
UTC

PS - please stay, Sean

[Rodleydave]

No nothing amusing about it Middle aged... it's bitter, vitriolic and way over the top... as if he has some kind of agenda... or thinks ooh what can I write about next...oh yeh the elbow at Norwich... it never struck me at the time that he was play acting...yep they were tussling 50 50... but an elbow on the head with a clenched fist is a red no matter what... was Conlan actually at the game... or just saw in TV and thought ooh I can do a quick 1000 words about that no problem... I've never seen an attack on a player by a journalist as intense as this ever before.

[huw.Y.WattfromWare]

he is an Irish Liverpool fan. That might explain his vitriol right there.

Great spot. This goes back to the Gomez tackle. He’s been biding his time to pick his moment.

[Bosscat]

SHOULD HAVE GONE TO SPECSAVERS

Thats especially for those who didn't see why the 2 red cards were awarded....

[Middle-agedClaret]

Great spot. This goes back to the Gomez tackle. He’s been biding his time to pick his moment.

myopia and paranoia...

[huw.Y.WattfromWare]

myopia and paranoia...

No such thing. Look at the early paragraph about the coming together. Ash did put his arm across him, all pros do this, he did not knee him in the thigh, their thighs came together in a natural motion of the incident. This fella thinks he’s Shakespeare. He must be paid by the word. It is so far over the top for what was a red card.

[Vino blanco]

I couldn't care less what some snotty journalist says about Westwood, nor what other holier than thou posters on here think about the incident, Burnley is my club and I support everything they do and everything Dyche does or says. I'm looking forward to next next season more than ever now, and subject to Covid I will be looking at booking some flights from Spain to Burnley to see the boys in action. Come on youooo Clarets.

[spadesclaret]

No nothing amusing about it Middle aged... it's bitter, vitriolic and way over the top... as if he has some kind of agenda... or thinks ooh what can I write about next...oh yeh the elbow at Norwich... it never struck me at the time that he was play acting...yep they were tussling 50 50... but an elbow on the head with a clenched fist is a red no matter what... was Conlan actually at the game... or just saw in TV and thought ooh I can do a quick 1000 words about that no problem... I've never seen an attack on a player by a journalist as intense as this ever before.

This.

It is a very nasty, personal attack on Ash.

[tybfc]

spades - he challenged himself to a word a minute on his way home along the A47.

[dsr]

The foul on Pieters is a red card, definite. It doesn't matter that the player almost got the ball first, and it wouldn't have mattered if he had got the ball full on. It doesn't matter that he only glanced off Pieters as Pieters leapt out of the way. The player took off from a distance and launched himself feet first in the general direction of Pieters' ankles, and the whereabouts of the ball isn't that relevant. Reckless, out of control, likely to cause injury, red card.

As for the Westwood incident, I agree to a fair extent that Westwood was wrong to exaggerate it. But if the journalist thinks that's bad, I'd like to see some of his reports on Jack Grealish. There's a man who knows how to fall over screaming in pain, several times a game.

[Dougall]

The concensus of opinion on the international referees' board that I post on is that the Westwood incident is 100% red but some considered the Pieters one to be a bit harsh and a yellow would probably have sufficed, although the majority view was two reds.

Just imagine if this board had the opportunity to access the judgement of a group of people who actually KNOW the Laws of the game and how they're applied....I wonder if we'd take any notice?!

[BenWickes]

Just imagine if this board had the opportunity to access the judgement of a group of people who actually KNOW the Laws of the game and how they're applied....I wonder if we'd take any notice?!

I think a few on here could start an argument with themselves in an empty room.

[ten bellies]

I had my ACL and medial snapped by a similar coward's tackle to the one Pieter's suffered. Unfortunately I had my leg planted with all my weight on it on impact. A split second later I'd have been ok. Definite red.

[huw.Y.WattfromWare]

In this era of health & safety it is the endangering an opponent element that fans need to get used to. I know it’s not as “hard” as it was back in the day but these are million pound commodities and their careers are on the line. Any blow to the head has to be a red, especially when they are looking into banning heading. The studs first lunge is also not acceptable. Although he didn’t catch Pieters with his studs he was out of control and he did contact both legs.

[cblantfanclub]

Middle aged claret - Westwood's reaction didn't get him a red card striking an opponent in the head did. To call it deceitful and sly is ridiculous it was there for all to see. Was it appropriate ? I don't know it wasn't my head that got hit. There was no feigning contact and in todays game most players go down after contact with the head. Dwight took a seemingly light blow to his jaw and went down holding his head and had treatment - no mention of this and I wouldn't presume to say how much it hurt. Westwood has no history of this particularly, and your comments are way over the top and an insult to one of our players.

[evensteadiereddie]

There was contact, however light, so it was a red. Westwood's reaction would have been laughable if from a player from any other club but ours but, as many other posters have implied, we were sick of getting ripped off by the cheats so we joined them.

[Turfy Topper]

I coud only read a bit of that. Whoever wrote it needs sacking.

But how do you know the journo needs sacking if you haven't read the article?

[Targetman]

There is some utter rubbish posted on here at times by our own supporters, some of whom love to be the centre of attention.

I think its disgraceful how Ashley Westwood is being singled out for being elbowed in the back of the head.

[evensteadiereddie]

He's not been singled out for anything ; it's a discussion of whether he over-reacted enough to ensure a fellow footballer was sent off or not.

[cblantfanclub]

His reaction contributed nothing to the sending off. The clip the ref saw was only the strike nothing that followed.
It is simple deliberate blow to head red - rolling around post incident contributes nothing as the offence has already been committed and judged upon.

[Frenchclaret]

Who, other than Burnley fans, would plough through that article? I doubt whether any Norwich fans read The Times so that just leaves us!
What a waste of space it all is, including this board’s three pages so far. Mind you I have read them all and added to them. !!!!

[evensteadiereddie]

His reaction contributed nothing to the sending off. The clip the ref saw was only the strike nothing that followed.
It is simple deliberate blow to head red - rolling around post incident contributes nothing as the offence has already been committed and judged upon.

If he'd got up and carried on, rugby-style, there'd have still been a red if VAR had intervened.
The histrionics were pointless and embarrassing but we've learned that nonsense like that works.

I reckon that if that kind of stuff had happened on a rugby pitch even AW's team mates would have laughed at him.

[Targetman]

If he'd got up and carried on, rugby-style, there'd have still been a red if VAR had intervened.
The histrionics were pointless and embarrassing but we've learned that nonsense like that works.

I reckon that if that kind of stuff had happened on a rugby pitch even AW's team mates would have laughed at him.

I wasn't embarrassed by it! Like I said some posters on here like to be the centre of attraction, usually by trying to be controversial or by arguing the toss against the majority.

[Corky]

I think Rodleydave and Spades have highlighted a very clear point. Others may have also and my apologies if I missed you. But, this jobbing scribbler has singled out Westwood as, somehow, the villain of the piece. And he has done it in a cynical and vindictive way. Now, it is clear that this attack on the Clarets has been a long time coming given the stance of our Manager but in this instance there is clear evidence for all to see that Westwood was elbowed in the back of the head. That is irrefutable. Sure, we can have the debate as too how violent the attack was and if Westwood made a meal of it etc etc. But we see week in, week out players diving and falling over in the most theatrical of manner through the merest of touches. Why hasn't this chap been religiously reporting on these as he clearly is so concerned by them. Because it doesn't suit his pathetic agenda which given he is a Liverpool fan makes sense.

[evensteadiereddie]

I wasn't embarrassed by it! Like I said some posters on here like to be the centre of attraction, usually by trying to be controversial or by arguing the toss against the majority.

Odd. Who cares whether you were embarrassed over a player feigning injury or not and are you really so craven as to agree with the majority, no matter what ? That's pathetic.

All I'll say is that if the elbow was as hard and as nasty as some make out, it's a wonder the lad was able to wake up never mind play on.