How our squad has changed in four years

[ClaretTony]

Four years ago today, having returned from the pre-season training camp in France, we played our first pre-season game in England, drawing 1-1 at Morecambe on a scorcher of a night.

Interesting now to look at who featured.

Burnley First Half: Paul Robinson, Matt Lowton, Michael Keane, Ben Mee, Cameron Dummigan, Scott Arfield, Fredrik Ulvestad, David Jones, Michael Kightly, Rouwen Hennings, Ashley Barnes.

Burnley Second Half: Paul Robinson, Tendayi Darikwa, Kevin Long, James Tarkowski, Danny Lafferty, Chris Long, Aiden O’Neill, Dean Marney, George Boyd, Lukas Jutkiewicz, Andre Gray.

[FactualFrank]

How many of those who aren't at the club, would get into our first 11 now?

[ClaretTony]

Probably just Keane. Of that list, and I know Heaton & JBG, who had just signed, were missing on international duty, it's just four defenders still at the club.

[Zom Zom]

Probably just Keane. Of that list, and I know Heaton & JBG, who had just signed, were missing on international duty, it's just four defenders still at the club.

...and Ashley Barnes.

[ClaretTony]

...and Ashley Barnes.

How could I forget Ashley Barnes

[cricketfieldclarets]

To think people say Dyche hasn’t been backed.

[Bosscat]

Probably just Keane. Of that list, and I know Heaton & JBG, who had just signed, were missing on international duty, it's just four defenders still at the club.

Kevin Long

[dermotdermot]

How many of those who aren't at the club, would get into our first 11 now?

But Barnes and Long are still at the club.

[taio]

How many of those who aren't at the club, would get into our first 11 now?

A tough one to call but I reckon Keane, Arfield and Marney would be closest.

[ClaretTony]

A tough one to call but I reckon Keane, Arfield and Marney would be closest.

Arfield and Marney wouldn't be close now. We've moved on a long way.

[taio]

Arfield and Marney wouldn't be close now. We've moved on a long way.

Certainly not now, no. I was basing on their ability at their peak with us.

[matttheclaret]

A tough question as to who's the better defender really.

Keane in his last couple of seasons here or Tarkowski now? Not much in it.

[ClaretTony]

Certainly not now, no. I was basing on their ability at their peak with us.

I was too, wouldn't get in now. We've got better players.

[ClaretTony]

A tough question as to who's the better defender really.

Keane in his last couple of seasons here or Tarkowski now? Not much in it.

I thought Keane was outstanding for us but Tarkowski has just got better and better since he replaced him three years ago. Tarky has the advantage though of playing in a Dyche organised defence, Keane is playing for a car crash of a club who have had four managers in the three years he's been there.

[taio]

I was too, wouldn't get in now. We've got better players.

I disagree. I reckon Arfield at his peak could easily have played multiple times while Gudmundsson was injured. And I believe Marney at his best would have played at times too. I said closet to the starting 11. I could only pick out those three as possibilities which shows how far we have come on.

[ksrclaret]

Our midfield is now light-years ahead of what it was in preseason 2016. The signings of Defour and Hendrick that summer were absolutely essential looking at that squad.

At the moment though Cork, Westwood, McNeil and now Brownhill are way, way ahead of what we had back then.

[ClaretTony]

Our midfield is now light-years ahead of what it was in preseason 2016. The signings of Defour and Hendrick that summer were absolutely essential looking at that squad.

At the moment though Cork, Westwood, McNeil and now Brownhill are way, way ahead of what we had back then.

Totally agree - players such as Arfield and Marney were terrific for us but we had to move on from them to improve and we have.

[FactualFrank]

...and Ashley Barnes.

Barnes is still here. I'm asking those who aren't here now.

[FactualFrank]

But Barnes and Long are still at the club.

That's why I asked which would get in who aren't now at the club.

[FeedTheArf]

Totally agree - players such as Arfield and Marney were terrific for us but we had to move on from them to improve and we have.

Would genuinely love Arfield back, still think he could do a good job as a squad player

[ClaretTony]

Would genuinely love Arfield back, still think he could do a good job as a squad player

He wasn’t featuring by the time he left

[EarbyClaret]

As a former CB himself Sean has spotted two exceptional ones in Keane and Tarkowski. Quite different players but little to choose between them in terms of how good they have been for us. SD once described Keane as a "Rolls Royce" of a defender - you wouldn't say that about Tarkowski but his sheer physical presence maybe gives him a slight edge - that being said - put him into that current Everton side and he'd probably struggle to the same extent that Keane has

[taio]

Totally agree - players such as Arfield and Marney were terrific for us but we had to move on from them to improve and we have.

Arfield and Marney were key players when we got great results that season like the win against Liverpool and draw against Man United at Old Trafford. I would say agreeing they are light years behind is a wild exaggeration. I accept though that there is a strong argument for saying that none of those listed would get in our starting 11 now which I inferred to start with.

[ClaretTony]

Arfield and Marney were key players when we got great results that season like the win against Liverpool and draw against Man United at Old Trafford. I would say agreeing they are light years behind is a wild exaggeration. I accept though that there is a strong argument for saying that none of those listed would get in our starting 11 now which I inferred to start with.

Easy to pick one or two games though and I don’t think I posted anything about light years.

[ksrclaret]

Arfield and Marney were key players when we got great results that season like the win against Liverpool and draw against Man United at Old Trafford. I would say agreeing they are light years behind is a wild exaggeration. I accept though that there is a strong argument for saying that none of those listed would get in our starting 11 now which I inferred to start with.

Have a day off. In premier league terms our midfield is way ahead of when Marney and Arfield were at the centre of it. We were frequently overrun even against teams who played 2 in there, we were relegated and they had to play out of their skins to get a result. They were excellent for us but they were top end championship players.

Our midfield now are far better equipped to play PL football and can afford to be below their best and still more than hold their own. Look at the performances over the last few games, below par but streetwise and experienced enough to still pick up points.

There really isn’t much to debate here.

[FeedTheArf]

He wasn’t featuring by the time he left

He might not have started many, but he still made 18 league appearances in his last season with us. That's more than we've been able to use Brady (15), JBG (10) and more than we've chosen to use Lennon (16). So as a squad player he would still be useful. Having said that, he's got 2 years left on his Rangers deal and don't think he'd be remotely interested in leaving Scotland to primarily sit on our bench.

[ClaretTony]

He might not have started many, but he still made 18 league appearances in his last season with us. That's more than we've been able to use Brady (15), JBG (10) and more than we've chosen to use Lennon (16). So as a squad player he would still be useful. Having said that, he's got 2 years left on his Rangers deal and don't think he'd be remotely interested in leaving Scotland to primarily sit on our bench.

He did but didn’t feature at all after early Feb. The three players you refer to have all had injury problems.

I’m not being critical of Arfield but he was always one of the weaker links in the Premier League although outstanding for us in the Championship. He’d have got a game or two post lockdown had he been here though given the injuries, that’s for sure.

[taio]

Have a day off. In premier league terms our midfield is way ahead of when Marney and Arfield were at the centre of it. We were frequently overrun even against teams who played 2 in there, we were relegated and they had to play out of their skins to get a result. They were excellent for us but they were top end championship players.

Our midfield now are far better equipped to play PL football and can afford to be below their best and still more than hold their own. Look at the performances over the last few games, below par but streetwise and experienced enough to still pick up points.

There really isn’t much to debate here.

No I won't have a day off just because I disagree with your view that the current midfield is light years ahead. Foolish language but let's agree to disagree rather than one or both of us having a day off.

[Dinks]

Barnes has been out an awful long time,i didnt think hernia's took that long to recover from,should we read anything into the fact hes been out so long,it would be sad if its a really bad injury we no nothing about,one of my favourate ever Clarets,ive missed him.

[EarbyClaret]

Barnes has been out an awful long time,i didnt think hernia's took that long to recover from,should we read anything into the fact hes been out so long,it would be sad if its a really bad injury we no nothing about,one of my favourate ever Clarets,ive missed him.

I think I read somewhere that his rehab had been disrupted because not all of the necessary equipment and treatments could be used during lockdown - hopefully no more to it than that

[ksrclaret]

No I won't have a day off just because I disagree with your view that the current midfield is light years ahead. Foolish language but let's agree to disagree rather than one or both of us having a day off.

Goodness me. I think that’s for best, go and have a lie down or something. Best of luck with it.

[ClaretTony]

Barnes has been out an awful long time,i didnt think hernia's took that long to recover from,should we read anything into the fact hes been out so long,it would be sad if its a really bad injury we no nothing about,one of my favourate ever Clarets,ive missed him.

He’s back in training. Have to say though that it’s been a long one if it was indeed just a hernia op.

[taio]

Four years ago today, having returned from the pre-season training camp in France, we played our first pre-season game in England, drawing 1-1 at Morecambe on a scorcher of a night.

Interesting now to look at who featured.

Burnley First Half: Paul Robinson, Matt Lowton, Michael Keane, Ben Mee, Cameron Dummigan, Scott Arfield, Fredrik Ulvestad, David Jones, Michael Kightly, Rouwen Hennings, Ashley Barnes.

Burnley Second Half: Paul Robinson, Tendayi Darikwa, Kevin Long, James Tarkowski, Danny Lafferty, Chris Long, Aiden O’Neill, Dean Marney, George Boyd, Lukas Jutkiewicz, Andre Gray.

CT, out of interest but off topic which players, if any, from those listed were selected in the best team for 10 years which I think you ran a poll on just last year? I can't find the article and can't remember what the outcome was.

[ClaretTony]

CT, out of interest but off topic which players, if any, from those listed were selected in the best team for 10 years which I think you ran a poll on just last year? I can't find the article and can't remember what the outcome was.

You will be pleased to see both Marney & Arfield rightly in the team.

https://www.uptheclarets.com/ings-and-b ... e-the-team

[Dyched]

I disagree. I reckon Arfield at his peak could easily have played multiple times while Gudmundsson was injured. And I believe Marney at his best would have played at times too. I said closet to the starting 11. I could only pick out those three as possibilities which shows how far we have come on.

If your picking peak Marney then you’ve got to compare him to a peak Cork or Westwood. Those 2 have and are playing far more PL football than Marney ever did.

It’s hard to think at times that players like Shackell, Juke, Boyd, Duff etc played under Dyche. It feels like a totally different era nowadays.

[taio]

If your picking peak Marney then you’ve got to compare him to a peak Cork or Westwood. Those 2 have and are playing far more PL football than Marney ever did.

It’s hard to think at times that players like Shackell, Juke, Boyd, Duff etc played under Dyche. It feels like a totally different era nowadays.

Yes I'd have Cork and Westwood ahead of Marney and I also agree those other players you mention wouldn't be close to starting.

[Colburn_Claret]

when you've managed a team as long as SD has, you're bound to have a large turnover of players.
Its amazing really to think back to those first years, when the first XI was really strong, but the bench was so weak. We were always an injury or suspension away from trouble.
Today we have a bench, present injury crisis aside, that could easily have played in that first XI, and all with no money to spend. We've come a long way, and along that road the board and SD, must have done a hell of a lot right.

[ClaretTony]

when you've managed a team as long as SD has, you're bound to have a large turnover of players.
Its amazing really to think back to those first years, when the first XI was really strong, but the bench was so weak. We were always an injury or suspension away from trouble.
Today we have a bench, present injury crisis aside, that could easily have played in that first XI, and all with no money to spend. We've come a long way, and along that road the board and SD, must have done a hell of a lot right.

Prior to this long injury list and the contract issues we basically had two teams.

Going back to the start of the season we lined up against Southampton: Nick Pope, Matt Lowton, James Tarkowski, Ben Mee, Erik Pieters, Jόhann Berg Guðmundsson, Ashley Westwood, Jack Cork, Dwight McNeil, Ashley Barnes, Chris Wood.

But we also had: Joe Hart, Phil Bardsley, Kevin Long, Ben Gibson, Charlie Taylor, Aaron Lennon, Jeff Hendrick, Danny Drinkwater, Robbie Brady, Jay Rodriguez, Matěj Vydra.

[Zom Zom]

Barnes is still here. I'm asking those who aren't here now.

I was responding to CT bud

[Down_Rover]

So in four years we have turned over nearly two full teams

Not bad for a club that allegedly never signs anyone

BTW, O'Neill is still on the books

[Dyched]

Yes I'd have Cork and Westwood ahead of Marney and I also agree those other players you mention wouldn't be close to starting.

We also get used to what were watching without knowing how good we are now, compared to then. If that makes sense. There’s been a slow rise over the past few years in our quality.

It’s like when we were in the Championship for years. I’d look at players in the PL and think, Littles better than him, Blakes better than him. But in reality until you watch the PL week in week out, you don’t realise how good the ordinary players actually are. Players like Dwight Gayle for example, many fans at Championship clubs would say they have forwards better than him or Ashley Barnes. When in reality they don’t.

[Vino blanco]

Arfield and Marney both did good jobs for the club but they were not really up to PL level requirements. We have improved greatly since then, having said that I would still love to see us sign a real quality midfielder.

[ClaretTony]

We also get used to what were watching without knowing how good we are now, compared to then. If that makes sense. There’s been a slow rise over the past few years in our quality.

It’s like when we were in the Championship for years. I’d look at players in the PL and think, Littles better than him, Blakes better than him. But in reality until you watch the PL week in week out, you don’t realise how good the ordinary players actually are. Players like Dwight Gayle for example, many fans at Championship clubs would say they have forwards better than him or Ashley Barnes. When in reality they don’t.

That really is the case. We’ve had some outstanding players in our team in the last few years and I sometimes think we don’t appreciate how good they are.

Ask me to pick my all time Burnley team and I’ll go back to the 1960s and 70s, and with some justification. But I have to ask myself now how close should such as Heaton, Pope, Tarkowski, to name just three, get to that team. I am mystified as to why Tarky hasn’t been in recent England squads and for the life of me I cannot fathom how on earth Pope is not Southgate’s first choice.

[Vino blanco]

Don't forget CT Pope and Tarks play for little Burnley, not United or Liverpool.

[cricketfieldclarets]

That really is the case. We’ve had some outstanding players in our team in the last few years and I sometimes think we don’t appreciate how good they are.

Ask me to pick my all time Burnley team and I’ll go back to the 1960s and 70s, and with some justification. But I have to ask myself now how close should such as Heaton, Pope, Tarkowski, to name just three, get to that team. I am mystified as to why Tarky hasn’t been in recent England squads and for the life of me I cannot fathom how on earth Pope is not Southgate’s first choice.

I’m certain the shirt will soon be popes.

Tarks brilliant for us. But can understand why others are ahead in his case.

[Lord_Bob]

Agree with most of this, but remember, as the saying goes "they stand on the shoulders of giants."

What that team did 4 - 6 years ago for the club and the town can never be under estimated. They were the ones who bought into the "Dyche Way," lived it, were successful with it and passed it on to the next "generation." They won promotion, got relegated but came right back up with most of the squad in tact. Great team.

[andyh]

The thing that strikes me is the healthy turnover of staff without any major upheavals. Every window since we’ve been crying about not doing enough. Yet we’ve got a better squad, stability and more money in the bank. It shows if they are the right players the. 1 or 2 every window is about the right amount to be bringing in. We probably only need a centre back and a creative midfielder this summer. Also assuming we can get something for Gibson we probably aren’t looking at a lot of cash. Which is why Sean’s recent outbursts surprise me. Unless he knows we are going to lose some of our better players.