BFC TRANSFER NEWS SUMMER/AUTUMN 2020 (MUST CONTAIN LINK)

[clarethomer]

Dont shoot the messenger but Vital Football-Norwich City, are saying the Gibson move to Norwich is a done deal. Its a loan, we pay 70% of his wages, theres a loan fee of £2m , and Norwich buy him in 12 months. As I say not confirmed yet

they pay 70% or we pay?

[mdd2]

I think they pay 70%

[warksclaret]

Sorry-Norwich pay 70%, if story of course is true

[huw.Y.WattfromWare]

I expect the club to replace key squad players such as Hart Lennon Hendrick and not go into a season with 3 wingers 1 of which many claim isn't a winger and another who made his career at LB.

Hart has been replaced by moving B P-F up to number 2 and a third choice has already been signed. Brownhill is already on board as Hendrick’s replacement. Lennon was never a world beater for us and there is still a month to go in this window. Grow up.

[NewClaret]

At this rate there will be some good Villa players forced out of the first team, and there may be some good players available. Their overall squad must be huge

Think they already have two RBs??

[randomclaret2]

Brownhill was signed in January , and the club were making contract offers to Hendrick as late as June .Im not sure how that makes him Hendrick's replacement.

[mdd2]

Brownhill was Defour's replacement after Drinkwater hit the drink looking for a shot or two in place of water

[kritichris]

This thread is full of BS and speculation, what happened to the factual side backed up by a link? Perhaps we should have a separate thread for unsubstantiated rumours that we can all ignore but allows the rumour mongers to have somewhere to post and discuss amongst themselves.

[Quickenthetempo]

This thread is full of BS and speculation, what happened to the factual side backed up by a link? Perhaps we should have a separate thread for unsubstantiated rumours that we can all ignore but allows the rumour mongers to have somewhere to post and discuss amongst themselves.

Chill out

99% of links are click bait articles anyway.

[Right_winger]

By quite some time, just how long do you mean? The last transfer window (when we signed Brownhill)? Or the one before that (when we signed Rodriguez and Pieters)?

Brownhill was brought in as defour/drinkwaters replacement, and wouldn’t have made the first team barring injuries. Same can be said about Rodriguez and Pieters is a back up player. The last player we signed to go straight into the first team was Chris Wood.

We have lost a midfielder a winger and now a centre half by the looks of it. These need replacing just to stand still, never mind improve the squad/team.

Just what do you realistically expect the club to do? That 'not up to much' which has brought us 5 successive seasons in the top flight? Or the 'not up to much' that saw us qualify for Europe 2 seasons ago and our second top 10 finish in 3 seasons?

I'm sure there are at least 72 clubs who wish their recruitment was as 'not up to much' as ours!

Oh this old phrase being trotted out again. Our seasons performance certainly has nothing to do with our recruitment that’s for sure, we’ve used largely the same side for the past few seasons.

I’d expect a club such as ours to be searching high and low worldwide looking for talent and getting some hungry younger players with potential through the doors. Instead we seem to faff about in the championship going after the same old names and then dicking about with low ball offers. If Joe Worrall is the best we can do then might aswell not bother. He’s utter garbage.. failed at rangers who play in a Mickey Mouse league.

[Wembley09]

Being reported here that Norwich will pay his full wages? Also that Boro and Forest tried to sign him, but their offers were deemed too low by us.


SPARE GIB Burnley to flog Ben Gibson to Norwich in shock transfer after months ‘striking’ following row with Sean Dyche

The Clarets have accepted Gibson's time is up after he spent months away from the club following a row with boss Sean Dyche.
And the Canaries have come up with a surprise offer to take on his wages after failing with lower offers earlier in the window.

Gibson, 27, was also in talks with former club Middlesbrough and Nottingham Forest.

But both wanted to take him on lesser terms - while Norwich's approach is permanent.

Dyche will spend the cash on recruitments of his own.

That could include increasing an offer for Forest defender Joe Worrall after previous bids fell short.


https://bit.ly/3jHDJnV

[CFS]

Hart has been replaced by moving B P-F up to number 2 and a third choice has already been signed. Brownhill is already on board as Hendrick’s replacement. Lennon was never a world beater for us and there is still a month to go in this window. Grow up.

If BPF is our 2nd choice keeper that's worrying and brownhill signed in January love. No Lennon wasn't a world beater he was a winger we haven't replaced. There all grown up for you.

[huw.Y.WattfromWare]

If BPF is our 2nd choice keeper that's worrying and brownhill signed in January love. No Lennon wasn't a world beater he was a winger we haven't replaced. There all grown up for you.

Brownhill was signed in January because Hendrick had been turning down contract offers. Advance planning or does this not fit with your negativity?
To your mind Billy Mercer doesn’t know his job. If he thinks B P-F is ready then he’s ready.

[jojomk1]

Brownhill was signed in January because Hendrick had been turning down contract offers.

Sounds about right to me

Going back to Gibson to Norwich, if we could get McLean in as part of any deal it would certainly bolster our numbers in central midfield

[Grimsdale]

More details of the Gibson to Norwich move - initial season-long loan with the option to make it permanent should Norwich gain promotion to the Premier League in a deal that could rise to £8million.

https://www.pinkun.com/norwich-city/ben ... -1-6821765

[Conroysleftfoot]

Sounds about right to me

Going back to Gibson to Norwich, if we could get McLean in as part of any deal it would certainly bolster our numbers in central midfield

I think I read somewhere that McLean has just signed a contract extension.

[wilks_bfc]

If BPF is our 2nd choice keeper that's worrying and brownhill signed in January love. No Lennon wasn't a world beater he was a winger we haven't replaced. There all grown up for you.

Why is having BPF as second choice worrying?

Were you worried when Robinson left, making Pope the number 2?
It was the Heaton/Robinson/Pope for a season with Pope being number 3. Robinson left, Pope stepped up

This is no different

[BenWickes]

Why is having BPF as second choice worrying?

Were you worried when Robinson left, making Pope the number 2?
It was the Heaton/Robinson/Pope for a season with Pope being number 3. Robinson left, Pope stepped up

This is no different

You do have to question some people's reasoning. BPF is a full international and from what I've seen against the likes of Germany no less. Didn't look out of place. Not the finished article by any means but not a bad back up.

[mdd2]

Looking like we are all rooting for Norwich to bounce straight back. If the deal is worth up to £8million would that include his wages?

[NewClaret]

More details of the Gibson to Norwich move - initial season-long loan with the option to make it permanent should Norwich gain promotion to the Premier League in a deal that could rise to £8million.

https://www.pinkun.com/norwich-city/ben ... -1-6821765

That sounds legit to me. If all goes to plan, we recover just over half of the fee spent on Gibson, less the wages of course - which is a pretty good outcome for us.

Fair and reasonable offer for Norwich too, so hoping they may repay the favour!

[Firthy]

Nothing has changed really. We always new Gibson would be going. BPF and Norris are fine as back ups so an absolute minmum requirement are a CB and right winger to replace Gibson and Lennon. Ideally another midfielder as well and that is on the assumption we don't sell Pope, Tarks, McNeil or Vydra.

It would give us 2 players in the squad for each position. Just have to hope Tarks, Mee, Barnes and Cork are fully fit for the start of the season and that we don't have too many injuries.

[jojomk1]

SD interviewed on SSN showing today on "live blog"
We are looking at bringing in a couple of signings, possibly three

[Long Time Lurker]

Norwich paying a 2m loan fee and 70% of his wages, with the option to make the move permanent for another 6m if they win promotion, is a poor deal in my books.

We paid 15m for him and if the payments are split evenly across his contract that equates to a cost of 3.75m per season. 2m is a little over half of that and if Norwich pay 70% of his wages we will still be on the hook for about 15K a week or 750K for the year.

In terms of his playing ability, the time he has left in the game and current market prices he is still worth 12-15m or more. At least he would be if we hadn't played a big part in crippling his current value and our selling position.

Whoever gave Gibson the false impression that he could leave us last year, for anything other than a permanent move at or above a specified price, has probably cost us a small fortune. I'm guessing that the requirements a club would need to satisfy in order to trigger a move weren't made abundantly clear to him.

If he was under the mistaken impression that he might be allowed to join another club on loan then I can fully understand why he might have felt somewhat betrayed when we turned down all the loan offers we received for him.

Granted, it is a speculative assumption, but it would go some way towards explaining the deterioration in his attitude and possibly explain why someone with a previously unblemished professional record would turn into a walking powder keg who was primed to explode, given the slightest provocation.

In situations like that, the people to blame are not the ones who get caught up in the explosion, but the people who lit the touch paper.

Ideally, he should have been told that a Winter move wasn't an option, because we needed him to stay on as cover for Mee. Following that declaration he should have been given a firm assurance that he would be moved on in the Summer if he was still unhappy with his playing time. Making him available in the Winter and opening him up to offers of any type was a daft thing to do and the stimulus for all the bad things that happened afterwards.

A buy option that is dependent on Norwich gaining promotion is a very poor one for us. The contractual buy price is probably structured to reflect his currently depressed value. However, if Gibson plays an important role in a promotion winning side then his value will rocket back up to its previous level and Norwich will be in a position to buy him for far less than market value. Naturally, we would be contractually bound to accept their low offer price when other clubs might be prepared to offer us more.

If they don't earn promotion he will have had a year to settle into their squad and they will be able to negotiate a lower price, based on the fact that he will have one less year on his contract. Or they can simply send him back to us and we will have to sell him with one less year on his contract, albeit with the bonus of increased visibility.

Taking the late start to the season into account we would have only been looking at about twelve or so weeks until the start of the next window, in the event that he didn't move clubs in this window. Personally, I would have been a lot happier if we had held out a bit longer for a respectable offer, instead of accepting a poor offer, because it was the only one on the table that didn't represent an insult.

Waiting until the next window would have cost us very little and after another couple of months on the sidelines he would have been urging his agent to move heaven and earth to get him a move. He would also have been far more open to the acceptance of any offer that arose, including a wage reduction.

The thing we know about Gibson is that he is a very good player and given game time he will prove that to be the case, reversing his currently depressed value.

A buy option, with a promotion conditional attached to it, doesn't really have any upside for us. At the very least we should be have been insisting on a promotion conditional buy option of 10-12m in addition to the 2m loan fee for the coming season. Anything less represents a bad deal on our part and if the final figure is 8m in total that is a very low price Norwich could be paying for a promotion winning central defender.

It will be interesting to see how we report this one. I suspect we will dress it up as a move to strengthen the team, by getting some of Gibsons wages off the books and bringing in a sum of money to help with transfers. Part of that makes some sense ( apart from the buy clause which is firmly in the favour of Norwich ), but not a great deal.

It could easily make no sense at all if we bring in a third right sided central defender ( when what we really need is a proven left sided centre back ), especially if we pay an extravagant sum for a lesser player like Worrall or Fry.

Honestly, with the large sums of money that we have haemorrhaged in the past two years as a consequence of poor strategic recruitment decisions anything is possible. Thankfully the Gaffer stepped in and forced a U-Turn on signing Bardsley for another year ( which could have cost us millions had we not done it ) and the team / playing staff performed heroically to register the placing we got last season.

As much as I appreciate our seasoned first eleven performing above and beyond all of our expectations they can't be expected to keep making up for our poor recruitment team by repeatedly playing out of their skins to post remarkable results.

Heaven help us when Rigg starts spending large amounts on all of his statistical wonder kids. He can't even avoid losing us millions when he is doing next to nothing on the active recruitment front, apart from orchestrating the departure of more players than he has the ability to adequately replace.

[claretonthecoast1882]

You just knew Rigg was being dragged into this

[ClaretAL]

Im not sure why we keep getting linked with strikers...


https://www.brightonandhoveindependent. ... er-2961594

[BenWickes]

Im not sure why we keep getting linked with strikers...


https://www.brightonandhoveindependent. ... er-2961594

We were linked with him by the BBC the other week. Don't know why. Klopp wants him to have guaranteed first team starts and that isn't going to happen at Burnley.

[Paul Waine]

Whoever gave Gibson the false impression that he could leave us last year, for anything other than a permanent move at or above a specified price, has probably cost us a small fortune.

Just this bit, LTL. Is it possible that it was Ben Gibson himself who gave himself the "false impression" that he could leave Burnley last year (or in Jan this year)?

I wish Ben Gibson all the best in his time with Norwich. If he has a good season and Norwich win promotion then good luck to Norwich. If he has a good season and Norwich don't win promotion, then maybe another club will take a look at signing Gibson. That's all down to Ben Gibson.

I'm sure both Mike Garlick and Sean Dyche will be happy that this piece of business is now done.

[Long Time Lurker]

You just knew Rigg was being dragged into this

Absolutely, he is the bloke in charge of our recruitment and the formulation of our long term strategic vision.

Dyche advocated new contracts for players and he was ignored. So either Garlick and the Board have taken it upon themselves to act contrary to the advice of Dyche and Rigg ( which would be unusual ) or they have spent the last two years acting primarily on the fresh input of Rigg. Hopefully, that has changed in the past couple of months.

I might mention Rigg more often than I should, but he is the person at the centre of all our decisions relating to recruitment. That is why he was brought to the club.

What I find unusual is why he isn't referred to more frequently and why people keep positing Dyche and Garlick as the solitary front runners in all of our recruitment decisions.

Do you think 8m represents a good price for a promotion winning central defender in the current market?

[Woodleyclaret]

Rigg has brought in promising players with sell on value which was part of his remit
The other part in surely to sign first team ready players not expensive busted flushes like we had last year in Hart and Drinky

[Long Time Lurker]

Just this bit, LTL. Is it possible that it was Ben Gibson himself who gave himself the "false impression" that he could leave Burnley last year (or in Jan this year)?

Could be, or his agent, but I doubt that he would have gone off the rails had he conjured up the idea of a transfer all on his own, without any indication that the club would sanction it or at least listen to offers.

None of us will ever know the specific ins and outs, Gibson Gate is a mystery that breeds supposition. I've heard his agent was spotted in the grassy knoll outside the Norwich training ground earlier today, pen in hand and poised to write, back and to the left.

[DCWat]

It may be that this is the best deal that we can get. Perhaps a case of accepting the position that we are in and trying to get as much from it as possible.

[Chester Perry]

Do you think 8m represents a good price for a promotion winning central defender in the current market?

Not going to comment on Rigg

on the face of it for the talent no - for someone that the world knows we do not want maybe

from a book perspective - the overall deal for Gibson was reported at around £15m, part of that will be conditional, appearances, England Caps, Premier League status etc. - It is unlikely that we will ever pay the full £15m probably closer to £13.5 - £14m (still substantial)

that means £8m would see us booking a profit (as a result of amortised value) and a substantial saving in wages) this seasons amortisation will be substantially offset by the loan fee, and so will the wages given both versions on that. Next season (should the sale complete) will see a significant profit booked (particularly if it is £8m on top of the loan fee - it is not clear to me if that is what is being said) at a time when Premier League clubs will be hit by a large fall in tv revenues as rebates kick in.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Absolutely, he is the bloke in charge of our recruitment and the formulation of our long term strategic vision.

Dyche advocated new contracts for players and he was ignored. So either Garlick and the Board have taken it upon themselves to act contrary to the advice of Dyche and Rigg ( which would be unusual ) or they have spent the last two years acting primarily on the fresh input of Rigg. Hopefully, that has changed in the past couple of months.

I might mention Rigg more often than I should, but he is the person at the centre of all our decisions relating to recruitment. That is why he was brought to the club.

What I find unusual is why he isn't referred to more frequently and why people keep positing Dyche and Garlick as the solitary front runners in all of our recruitment decisions.

Do you think 8m represents a good price for a promotion winning central defender in the current market?

Be honest Rigg snubbed you for an autograph didn't he ?

You openly admit to being speculative (i.e knowing nothing) but then moaning about anything transfer related with the club. Every player we get linked with, you roll out a list of players who you know how much they would be sold for as well as the wage they would want some effort while not being involved in football.

You say you might mention Rigg more than you should... again you know nothing of what he does. If he identifies a player and the manager doesn't want the player what do you think will happen ? If he identifies a player and the board won't pay the fee what do you think will happen ? If he identifies a player and the player/agent decide they have a better offer elsewhere what do you think will happen ?

I know in your transfer world you just click your fingers and the player signs but reality is a million miles from your logic.

As for do I think 8m represents value, there will be better players sold for less than that this summer and you yourself could quickly identify 20 players who are better and cheaper.

[SGr]

I don’t get the Rigg stuff. Seems to be this idea that he in any way controls finances as well as an aspect of recruiting.

[TVC15]

You just knew Rigg was being dragged into this

Aye....nothing to do with the player downing tools and demanding a move. All Rigg`s fault from the poster who is convinced he could do a better job than him but decides instead to use his in depth "expertise and knowledge" to post on a football forum !

The facts of the Gibson case are actually really simple. Why complicate it with long analysis and guesses and assumptions I'm not sure.

Those facts are that right now he is a drain of significant financial resources and we are getting zero in return and will get zero in return if the current situation continues as is till the end of his contract.
The longer we hold out for a better deal the more we lose every single week.
So we consider the offers on the table and we choose the best one - and its safe to assume that one is the Norwich deal.
We are talking about a player who has hardly kicked a ball for 2 years and we could get up to £8m in a transfer fee - and in addition save £2m a year in wages.
We could value the player at between £10m and £12m if we really wanted....but that would mean paying him £200k a month for sitting in his house whilst nobody shows any interest. Its not like big clubs have been knocking our door down to buy him. We have taken the best deal that has been offered - why would we do anything different ?

[SGr]

Gibson was a good signing on paper and I made that clear at the time. Ticked all the boxes for the position. What happened with him could not have been predicted.

[Gordaleman]

Isn't it strange how when people don't like someone, they refer to them by their Surname? When they do like them, it's usually their Christian name.

As I don't know how well Mr Rigg is doing, I'll have the courtesy to call him Mr.. One thing I do know though, is that our Board of Directors are no fools, and if they thought Mr Rigg was not doing a good job, he's be gone by now.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Mr Rigg can find hundreds of players, but if they don't want to come, or their agents demand too much, then that's not his fault. Also, he might suggest some very good players, players who might be willing to come, but it's not down to him to buy them and write the cheques. Mr Rigg has a very difficult role and it's one I wouldn't like to attempt. It's called trying to please everyone at the same time. I don't know anyone who's ever got that totally right.

[cblantfanclub]

LTL "We paid 15m for him and if the payments are split evenly across his contract that equates to a cost of 3.75m per season."

Big assumption there LTL.

[buzzclarets79]

Oh how times have changed....remember us selling various players for under 1m, now we are arguing if an potential 8m brought to the club from a player thats never ever going to feature in the first team is good business.... regardless of how much we paid for him 2years ago.....8m to Burnley is still a substantial amount of cash, premier league or not.

[NewClaret]

SD interviewed on SSN showing today on "live blog"
We are looking at bringing in a couple of signings, possibly three

Find that reassuring - would prefer quality over quantity.

[AfloatinClaret]

Norwich paying a 2m loan fee and 70% of his wages, with the option to make the move permanent for another 6m if they win promotion, is a poor deal in my books. ...In terms of his playing ability, the time he has left in the game and current market prices he is still worth 12-15m or more...

Then get on the phone to Mike Garlick a bit quick, offer him a straight £8 million and even after you've covered the finance charges, paid legal/agents fees for the purchase & re-sale, plus a couple of weeks salary to Ben Gibson whilst you're moving him on at his current market price, you're going to be up several million quid.

[Boss Hogg]

Find that reassuring - would prefer quality over quantity.

Who said anything about quality ?

[Steve1956]

FB_IMG_1599224119095.jpg (15.61 KiB) Viewed 2967 times

[Firthy]

FB_IMG_1599224119095.jpg

Shouldn't this be on the H2O thread

[Long Time Lurker]

Rigg has brought in promising players with sell on value which was part of his remit

Who ?

Development Squads

Last year we had a mass exodus of players from the development squads.

We signed Joel Senior ( left the club after one season ), Adam Phillips ( gone back to Morecambe, probably to finish out his contract after signing a one year extension ), Joel Mumbongo ( who was injured before he arrived, injured when he arrived and spent most of the season injured ) and Henri Ogunby ( left the club after one season as well ).

This season we have witnessed another grand exodus, bolstered by the departures of Ali Koiki, Vinnie Steels, Scott Wilson, Will Harris and Christian N'Guessan. It remains to be seen which of our new signings of Connor Barrett, Will Rickard, Marc Richter and Marcel Elva-Fountaine will last longer than a season. I thought that a couple of them gave very impressive down to earth interviews, with a welcome tip of their hats to our heritage. They came across as good lads, so I'm pulling for them to go the distance.

Rigg has also signed Max Thompson, Lewis Thomas, Dan Sassi, Keelan Williams, Jack Leckie and most recently Dane McCullough for the U18's since he arrived.

I doubt we currently have the numbers to send out a lot of players on loan like Steve Stone advocated last season.

Restricting ourselves to the numbers we are losing more players from the academy than we are actually signing. It looks like we are filling the ranks of the U23's with the U18's for the upcoming season.If we keep it up we will end up playing the U16's in the U23 squad.

In terms of quality the new lads might represent a step up in quality, but on paper they don't suggest a gigantic leap forward or the widening of our scouting network. I wouldn't be surprised if the spotting of Marc Richter was down to Fabian Otte.

Lee Jones - Our New Full Time European Scout

The slightest trickle of foreign talent isn't entirely unexpected when you consider that our new full time European scout, Lee Jones, previously worked for non-league Tranmere as their Head Of Academy / Head Of Recruitment.

I can't imagine that role required him to look much further than the domestic talent in League 2. Following their promotion back into the football league, Tranmere decided to close down their Academy and let all of their staff go. Jones wasn't retained in his recruitment capacity and he quickly joined up with the Swansea Academy as their first Development Manager for North wales. After working in that position for about a year he joined us. I'm well aware that Wales is a different country ( a lovely country ), but it hardly counts as extensive European Scouting experience / knowledge in my books. By all accounts he was an active proponent of WYSCOUT while he was with Tranmere though.

I would imagine the presence of Jones is how we found and signed up Will Rickard from Swansea. If Rigg can tear his thoughts away from signing Maehle I wouldn't be surprised to see us chasing after Connor Roberts as our next International right back target.

First Team

The credit for signing Brownhill has to go to Martin Hodge, because he was following him and keeping in touch with him long before Rigg arrived at our club. That leaves BPF who will be tasked with saving our seat on the PL gravy train if anything should happen to Pope, which worries me. I watched him when he played for Leeds, so I'm hoping he really has improved a lot since joining us, as he stated when he signed his recent contract extension.

[Long Time Lurker]

Isn't it strange how when people don't like someone, they refer to them by their Surname?

At Burnley we seem to refer to everyone by their surname, we just add a Y to the end of it.

I will refer to him as Riggy from now on

[claretonthecoast1882]

At Burnley we seem to refer to everyone by their surname, we just add a Y to the end of it.

I will refer to him as Riggy from now on

Riggy probably refers to you as restraining order

[TVC15]

Or restrainingy ordery

Actually “stalks” is catchier

[Long Time Lurker]

Riggy probably refers to you as restraining order

That would be a shame, I can appreciate the pleasure of a persons company, regardless of the quality of work I believe them to have done or do in their professional capacity.

Riggy ( aw, adding on the Y automatically conjures up a feeling of endearment ) could be a really great bloke for all I know and while I've no burning desire to ever meet him I certainly don't have anything personal against him.

I simply think that recruitment is extremely important and his past performance record as a Technical Director is very poor. In the two years that he has been with us I'm yet to see anything that makes me believe his impact will be more positive than the impact he had on his previous clubs

[TVC15]

And yet he still has a better track record than you.