FactualFrank wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:23 pm

I thought it was Rigg who got the names ?

Might well be but dyche has the last word

Speaking of rigg has he been here for almost 2 years and the only player we have signed is Brownhill

BOYSIE31 wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:25 pm

Might well be but dyche has the last word

Speaking of rigg has he been here for almost 2 years and the only player we have signed is Brownhill

Jay?
Peiters?

BOYSIE31 wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:21 pm

There are plenty of quality players outside the British isles who would jump at a chance of playing in this league and see us as a step up - Dyche refuses that route but then complains about the prices for players in the championship where he wants to shop

This is just no longer the case in this day and age. If they're good enough to improve our first team they'll cost more in either transfer fee or wages than we are willing to pay.

Why do we have overseas scouts then ?

BOYSIE31 wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:19 pm

Yep and I forgot about Drinkwater as well - a hell of a lot of money gone from the club's coffers to players bank accounts that have contributed sweet fa on the pitch where it matters - you could also add Vydra to the list maybe as well and obviously Gibson.
Board have sat back and thought we can't carry on like this and I agree.

Utter sh-ite - as usual.
Our net spend over Dyche’s tenure is up there with the lowest of any club in this league.
No club with a sustained period in this league survives without making expensive mistakes - and we have made fewer expensive mistakes than most.

The board have not thought “we can’t carry on like this at all” - pure fabrication from you...and the only thing you are agreeing with is your own bullish-it.

Garlick has explained why we are in a more difficult financial situation than we were pre Covid but either you choose to ignore that or don’t understand it - based on some of your comments when the accounts came out I’m sure it’s both.

TVC15 wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:03 pm

Garlick has explained why we are in a more difficult financial situation than we were pre Covid

This is part of the problem. MG coming out with that comment and SD saying money isn’t a problem.
In current times I would lean towards MG’s view. God knows when this virus will be beaten and just by surviving we could come out far stronger as some might not survive.

He just loves any opportunity to have 'a dig' at the football club he purports to support. Not the only one but it's very strange nonetheless.

huw.Y.WattfromWare wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:17 pm

This is part of the problem. MG coming out with that comment and SD saying money isn’t a problem.
In current times I would lean towards MG’s view. God knows when this virus will be beaten and just by surviving we could come out far stronger as some might not survive.

I’m not sure SD has said that money isn’t a problem but happy to be stood corrected.

But you only have to look at the 2019 accounts to see that any reduction in revenues based on the last reported wage bill is going to mean we are likely to move into making losses. Whilst this in itself is not a big problem for the June 2020 year end as we should have enough to cover this through our reserves MG will be looking ahead at the June 21 year end and forecasting further reductions in revenue from the impact of Covid on gate receipts and TV money.

SD is a clever enough person to understand this and I can’t believe for one minute that MG has not explained the position to him.

Obviously there is a difference of opinion between them and we may never know exactly what that is. We do have money as whatever losses we post is unlikely to swallow up all of our reserves but MG has to look to the future and make certain assumptions about the next couple of years.

My guess in the difference in opinion between them is SD is saying if we don’t spend money now we are going to be relegated and MG is thinking if we manage to stay up with a lower wage bill and spending little on transfer fees (and possibly sell a prize asset) then he can just about get through the next year or two before normality is returned.

I’d say SD is probably right as staying up with such a small squad is going to very difficult but if you are in MG’s shoes with nobody on the board prepared to subsidise / cover sustained losses then I can understand how it’s very difficult for him too. We also have the very real prospect that relegation may not be the worst option financially for the club if we do have relegation clauses in the players contracts and we know that we are going to bring in the best part of £100m in player sales.

Tall Paul wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:58 pm

This is just no longer the case in this day and age. If they're good enough to improve our first team they'll cost more in either transfer fee or wages than we are willing to pay.

No not really wages are a lot less nearly everywhere than the UK

TVC15 wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:03 pm

Utter sh-ite - as usual.
Our net spend over Dyche’s tenure is up there with the lowest of any club in this league.
No club with a sustained period in this league survives without making expensive mistakes - and we have made fewer expensive mistakes than most.

The board have not thought “we can’t carry on like this at all” - pure fabrication from you...and the only thing you are agreeing with is your own bullish-it.

Garlick has explained why we are in a more difficult financial situation than we were pre Covid but either you choose to ignore that or don’t understand it - based on some of your comments when the accounts came out I’m sure it’s both.

I know its the lowest and that's why we need investment from elsewhere and it cant come soon enough but we have made too many mistakes because of the routes Dyche chose to go down - ageing has beens and big money and shopping in the championship - there is more to football that the English leagues you know

BOYSIE31 wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:37 am

I know its the lowest and that's why we need investment from elsewhere and it cant come soon enough but we have made too many mistakes because of the routes Dyche chose to go down - ageing has beens and big money and from the championship - there is more to football that the English leagues you know

So what do you think about our investment in under 23s, 5 new signings? Is this nothing to do with the manager?

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:48 am

So what do you think about our investment in under 23s, 5 new signings? Is this nothing to do with the manager?

The under 23s have their own budget.

So the Under 23s have a budget but the First Team doesnt

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:48 am

So what do you think about our investment in under 23s, 5 new signings? Is this nothing to do with the manager?

I would say more to do with other peoples verdicts who then speak to Dyche

BOYSIE31 wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:59 am

I would say more to do with other peoples verdicts who then speak to Dyche

Are you saying that SD has nothing to do with who we sign for the younger teams?

Not sure why the club does not state to the fans unless somebody like Tarks goes we have no resources to spend on player/s - fans are "annoyed" and "concerned" but as a small club in a covid19 year it is understandable. Wealthy owners or not Liverpool have spent no money, Spurs very little money and they have wealthy owners/backers so it has affected more than just small clubs. The bit that gnaws you is that premiership "newbies" like sheff utd and aston villa are highlighting targets and signing them well before deadline week/day, it is a case of our 5 year stability learning absolutely nothing or "behind the scenes" to agents are we the "last resort club" wait until last minute of window and if theres nobody else interested sign ? dunno

BOYSIE31 wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:15 am

No not really wages are a lot less nearly everywhere than the UK

Yes, but if a player is available who is good enough to improve our first team then they're also good enough to improve the first team of teams that are willing to pay more than we are (like Villa/Palace/Sheff Utd etc), pricing us out of a potential signing.

With the rise of data analysis there's almost perfect information on the transfer market making it almost impossible to pick up talented players from unknown leagues and traditional scouting is pretty much obsolete.

Tall Paul wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:43 am

Yes, but if a player is available who is good enough to improve our first team then they're also good enough to improve the first team of teams that are willing to pay more than we are (like Villa/Palace/Sheff Utd etc), pricing us out of a potential signing.

With the rise of data analysis there's almost perfect information on the transfer market making it almost impossible to pick up talented players from unknown leagues and traditional scouting is pretty much obsolete.

Too many excuses

Tall Paul wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:43 am

Yes, but if a player is available who is good enough to improve our first team then they're also good enough to improve the first team of teams that are willing to pay more than we are (like Villa/Palace/Sheff Utd etc), pricing us out of a potential signing.

With the rise of data analysis there's almost perfect information on the transfer market making it almost impossible to pick up talented players from unknown leagues and traditional scouting is pretty much obsolete.

Too many excuses

I don't venture onto Twitter much and I don't actively look for transfer news and gossip, so this thread is the source for that kind of speculation.... and it's depressing.

Nixon:

Garlick not wanting to over spend. Rigg looking all over for targets. Dyche a bit grumpy about lack of cash and targets. So nothing going through too easily right now.

This is unique. Money isn’t there. Can’t spend what you don’t have. That’s reality. Garlick doesn’t want the thing to go bust. Can’t blame him for that.

There’s some money to spend. Been bidding for people. But all been low. Need to be realistic overall here. These are tough times for football.

jedi_master wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:21 pm

Nixon:

Garlick not wanting to over spend. Rigg looking all over for targets. Dyche a bit grumpy about lack of cash and targets. So nothing going through too easily right now.

This is unique. Money isn’t there. Can’t spend what you don’t have. That’s reality. Garlick doesn’t want the thing to go bust. Can’t blame him for that.

There’s some money to spend. Been bidding for people. But all been low. Need to be realistic overall here. These are tough times for football.

He doesn't normally post that much, but it seems pretty clear. We don't have much of a budget and it looks like the 2-3 players is a pipe dream, with 1 player max coming in, and even then it would be a bargain and 4th-5th choice purchase.

FactualFrank wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:24 pm

He doesn't normally post that much, but it seems pretty clear. We don't have much of a budget and it looks like the 2-3 players is a pipe dream, with 1 player max coming in, and even then it would be a bargain and 4th-5th choice purchase.

Maybe utilising the loan market wouldnt go a miss if we don't have the funds available

The positives:

First 11 are good ( as long as we don’t lose anyone else or have any injuries)

There are still good odds on us to be relegated

Reecey1987 wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:33 pm

Maybe utilising the loan market wouldnt go a miss if we don't have the funds available

It's looking that way. Like posted above, our first choice 11 is a top 10 side with the way we play. But that's relying on the likes of JBG not getting injured - and it's 80% likely he will get injured.

Even 2-3 loans for people would work, but would a club loan a player out who might not even play? Possibly a team who wouldn't have played them anyway, and loaning them to us saves them some ££s as we'll be paying the wage. So possibly.

BOYSIE31 wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:21 pm

There are plenty of quality players outside the British isles who would jump at a chance of playing in this league and see us as a step up - Dyche refuses that route but then complains about the prices for players in the championship where he wants to shop

I actually think that shopping in the Championship would now be a little bit easier than previously given the situation with COVID. Championship clubs are feeling the pinch just like we are. Example being the two Derby full backs who went to Sheff Utd for less than £15m combined when Derby were reportedly asking for that figure for just one of them (Bogle) around 12 months ago.

Names like Davies, Pearson and Johnson from PNE, Wallace from Millwall etc now look a little more appealing than perhaps they once did...and i don't think would now cost as much as their respective clubs wanted a few months ago.

FactualFrank wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:38 pm

It's looking that way. Like posted above, our first choice 11 is a top 10 side with the way we play. But that's relying on the likes of JBG not getting injured - and it's 80% likely he will get injured.

Even 2-3 loans for people would work, but would a club loan a player out who might not even play? Possibly a team who wouldn't have played them anyway, and loaning them to us saves them some ££s as we'll be paying the wage. So possibly.

Jbg did the right thing by staying and having a full pre season with us . Brady on the other hand I suppose that's his decision. If there's no money available or limited then the loan market looks the best place or free agents

FactualFrank wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:24 pm

He doesn't normally post that much, but it seems pretty clear. We don't have much of a budget and it looks like the 2-3 players is a pipe dream, with 1 player max coming in, and even then it would be a bargain and 4th-5th choice purchase.

I'd still be amazed if we don't bring in 3-4 players.

A couple of knocks, a suspension or (god forbid) 2-3 players going down with COVID and we are calling on the kids again. We have lost players and reduced the wage bill. As Nixon suggests, we do have money - just not a lot.

A couple in permanently and a couple of loans maybe......

Reecey1987 wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:41 pm

Jbg did the right thing by staying and having a full pre season with us . Brady on the other hand I suppose that's his decision. If there's no money available or limited then the loan market looks the best place or free agents

Everybody fit, and we wouldn't be desperate for anybody. Barnes, Brady, Cork, JBG all staying fit we'd be ok and be able to have a decent bench too.

Maybe we need to ask the posters who said Gibson was a poor transfer, as Mee and Tarky didn't get any bad injuries. Let them tell us who's going to get injured so we know in advance

FactualFrank wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:24 pm

He doesn't normally post that much, but it seems pretty clear. We don't have much of a budget and it looks like the 2-3 players is a pipe dream, with 1 player max coming in, and even then it would be a bargain and 4th-5th choice purchase.

Time to drop the Factual, Frank. That is speculation with a negative slant.

Jakubs Tash wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:43 pm

I'd still be amazed if we don't bring in 3-4 players.

I'd be amazed if we do. I can see somebody coming in towards the end of the window, but I really cannot see 3-4 players. 2 an absolute maximum, and one of those will probably be a loan.

huw.Y.WattfromWare wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:44 pm

Time to drop the Factual, Frank. That is speculation with a negative slant.

Welcome to Uptheclarets.

Jakubs Tash wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:40 pm

I actually think that shopping in the Championship would now be a little bit easier than previously given the situation with COVID. Championship clubs are feeling the pinch just like we are. Example being the two Derby full backs who went to Sheff Utd for less than £15m combined when Derby were reportedly asking for that figure for just one of them (Bogle) around 12 months ago.

Trustworthy sources suggest it was actually half that (or less) for the pair...

I do think we'd have been in the race for Bogle but probably tying Bardsley to another year meant there wasn't room in the budget for another RB. Don't think Dyche is blameless there tbh.

Osayi-Samuel apparently available for less than £5m and he'd be perfect for us to give us depth in wide areas (and replace Brady long term as there's no way he's here next season). There's value in the market but it seems we're not interested in it.

Garlick is probably thinking that we managed just fine with 12 or 13 fit outfield players post lockdown..

Has anyone considered this? As we haven't yet sold anyone, our lack of incoming players may simply be because we don't yet know how much money we have available. There's no point in bringing in 2 or 3 very ordinary players, (With money we already have.) if we end up selling Tarky (Or someone else.) and that gives us the chance to bring in 2 or 3 very decent ones instead.

It really could be as simple as that.

Add to that that players are always looking for the best deal for themselves and they too will leave it late in the hope of better offers. That's why there is always a last minute flurry of deals.

Gordaleman wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:56 pm

Has anyone considered this? As we haven't yet sold anyone, our lack of incoming players may simply be because we don't yet know how much money we have available. There's no point in bringing in 2 or 3 very ordinary players, (With money we already have.) if we end up selling Tarky (Or someone else.) and that gives us the chance to bring in 2 or 3 very decent ones instead.

It really could be as simple as that.

Add to that that players are always looking for the best deal for themselves and they too will leave it late in the hope of better offers. That's why there is always a last minute flurry of deals.

I think it's a lot more to do with waiting to see who is left and then going for somebody. I think we're waiting for other clubs to do their business which gives us less competition and more chance of getting someone for less than if we went for them now.

FactualFrank wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:57 pm

I think it's a lot more to do with waiting to see who is left and then going for somebody. I think we're waiting for other clubs to do their business which gives us less competition and more chance of getting someone for less than if we went for them now.

So you seriously believe that Burnley don't have target players and that we just collect the dreggs when other are finished? I think that's so far from reality that it makes me wonder if what you said was a serious post.

If we don't lose anyone, regardless of whether we make any signings, we should still be good enough to survive comfortably this season.

Spijed wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:05 pm

If we don't lose anyone, regardless of whether we make any signings, we should still be good enough to survive comfortably this season.

Mr Garlick ??

Spijed wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:05 pm

If we don't lose anyone, regardless of whether we make any signings, we should still be good enough to survive comfortably this season.

That would be taking a huge gamble on avoiding injuries and suspensions across the full season.

We never have a good cup run, so wouldn't be worried about fixture pile up, but Dyche's consistency in his team selection and the lack of break since the final games of last season surely increases the risk of losing players to injury.

In my opinion we would be foolish not to strengthen when there does appear to be value out there.

Spijed wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:05 pm

If we don't lose anyone, regardless of whether we make any signings, we should still be good enough to survive comfortably this season.

Not too sure about that. Admittedly we did well in those final games of the season with what we had available to us. But 38 games is a totally different scenario and it would be folly not to add to what we already have. Hard to understand anyone connected with the club, from directors to supporters, would genuinely believe anything else.

Row Z wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:25 pm

That would be taking a huge gamble on avoiding injuries and suspensions across the full season.

We never have a good cup run, so wouldn't be worried about fixture pile up, but Dyche's consistency in his team selection and the lack of break since the final games of last season surely increases the risk of losing players to injury.

In my opinion we would be foolish not to strengthen when there does appear to be value out there.

It's a huge gamble paying 15 million for a player, who might not make the grade, might sustain a serious injury on his debut, might decide he doesn't like warming the bench.
Life's full of gambles, but one gamble could see is struggle, but remain financially sound, the second gamble might see us up **** creek without a paddle.
I acknowledge it's frustrating for you, me and SD, but Mike Garlick has the best interests of BFC at heart, and he knows better than anybody on this message board, what the club can afford.

Why is everybody worried if Dyche is the best manager about with no money to spend?

Lots of players will be available cheaply on deadline day, especially if there's no confirmed date for fans returning full time.

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:04 pm

Lots of players will be available cheaply on deadline day, especially if there's no confirmed date for fans returning full time.

Which is my point further up, which brain cell had a pop at. We could very well be waiting for other clubs to do their business.

Colburn_Claret wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:52 pm

It's a huge gamble paying 15 million for a player, who might not make the grade, might sustain a serious injury on his debut, might decide he doesn't like warming the bench.

I'm not suggesting a £15m signing, and I doubt there are many that would be expecting us to go out and spend that when we need multiple signings.

My suggestion is that we are lacking squad depth and if we suffer an injury then we are down to youth team players which would certainly see us suffer relegation.

Examples such as the Derby fullbacks which a poster has suggested cost less than half of the £15m reported, so two players for £7m... or Johnson from Preston who is a central midfielder on the verge of signing for Rangers for £2m having played over 200 championship games for Preston and got 12 goals and 7 assists last year.

Spijed wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:05 pm

If we don't lose anyone, regardless of whether we make any signings, we should still be good enough to survive comfortably this season.

you forgot to add - "if we started with a fully fit squad and don't get any injuries or suspensions"

Wonder how many on here risk going out to get the family Christmas turkey at 4.55pm on Christmas Eve. Thats what our recruitment team sounds like its doing, and we hear Rigg is frantically trying to identify targets .Its now almost 4 months since the post lockdown squad shamble. As several posters on here have said, the players at reasonable money are out there. Just looking at the clubs who went early -how they did the weekend-. Newcastle,Leicester and Celtic all got wins, and goals scored by recent acquisitions. Would not surprise me if Sheff Utd turn it on tonight with their new batch of players.

Did anyone previously identify Bogle, or Duffy as squad members. Is anyone looking at John Lundstram who is refusing to sign for Sheff Utd, and who have made his place uncertain with 5 additional players.He would be a hell of an addition and is apparently on a low wage.It beggars belief. Bring back MacParland the guy that got us Andre Gray and Joey in the matter of days

I am going to stop posting in this thread until after deadline day or there’s some tangible news (like a signing).

I’m going to withhold judgment and hope that Garlick and the Boards curious approach to recruitment comes good this season. That’s not to say we’ve done badly in the past, just that we’ve ended up in a situation with £40m in the bank and not enough players to field a bench, which is an embarrassment in the PL.

Before I go, I will say these things:

- I can’t understand why our strategy is to leave things until the last minute. As Dyche said, that puts us under pressure. When teams know we need players, you’d imagine that means we end up paying more for players in a panic, not less. The only scenarios where this last minute approach may pay off is when we are waiting for clubs to sign replacements or we know deep down the selling club is distressed; arguably the latter will true for some Championship clubs this year, but not for Forest/Derby/Brentford, who’ve all sold well.

- A PL team should have quality cover in every position. That means we need a RW, CM & CB (x2 if Tarky goes), plus a crop of youngsters chomping at the bit. Anything less will be a disservice to Dyche in a season where we’ll inevitably suffer injuries and positive Covid results.

- I’m glad our Chairman & Board are prudent. I like that they respect the club, see themselves as custodians. But you also sometimes need to take risks to protect the club. Going down in current climate would be much worse than spending our cash reserves or even acquiring some low interest debt to support squad rebuilding, providing its invested wisely in players with a resale value if we go down.

BOYSIE31 wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:59 am

Too many excuses

It's reality, not excuses.

Just to be clear, I am not worried about transfers just yet, still plenty of time.