Mask day

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UnderSeige
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Re: Mask day

Post by UnderSeige » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:22 am

cricketfieldclarets wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:03 pm
The problem is, a lot of people will be priding themselves on what they can get away with. And ridiculing the whole thing.

Same people who think every rule is there to be broken.

Its not hard to comply. Some just choose to be awkward,
Some of those people could come a cropper. What if they are later found to be Covid positive and have to take a couple of weeks off work? The other situation is where a business has to be closed down for a time due to several of it's employees testing positive.

Covidiots posting pictures of themselves defying government restrictions will not go down well with their employers or co workers if they can be seen online in public places boasting that they are not wearing a mask. Especially if their work place has to close down a week or so later.

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Re: Mask day

Post by UnderSeige » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:24 am

Healeywoodclaret wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:30 am
And some people have medical conditions, which are not clearly visible to you, which prevents them from wearing a mask.
Governments rules cater for those situations. See posts that I have made above that link to the government exemptions and also to advice from the MIND organisation.

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Re: Mask day

Post by dsr » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:59 am

UnderSeige wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:14 am
For people like yourself who need to have the evidence through behavioural models you can find them quite easily. The following one is by the Royal Society (published on 1st June). https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/ ... 76#d1e1813
That's very useful, thanks. Makes sense.

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Re: Mask day

Post by SingaporeClarets » Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:45 am

UnderSeige wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:24 am
Governments rules cater for those situations. See posts that I have made above that link to the government exemptions and also to advice from the MIND organisation.
They could just make it mandatory that those groups wear a face shield instead otherwise stay at home.

Just put the TV on and look at countries like Spain to see what happens with complacency. They will go from a tourism market on its knees to no tourism market at all, Benidorm will be the next Morecambe.

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Re: Mask day

Post by Quickenthetempo » Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:55 pm

UnderSeige wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:22 am
Some of those people could come a cropper. What if they are later found to be Covid positive and have to take a couple of weeks off work? The other situation is where a business has to be closed down for a time due to several of it's employees testing positive.

Covidiots posting pictures of themselves defying government restrictions will not go down well with their employers or co workers if they can be seen online in public places boasting that they are not wearing a mask. Especially if their work place has to close down a week or so later.
The masks wont protect the wearer if it's so easily catchable as made out.
Unless you wear the filtered masks in which case they don't protect others.

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Re: Mask day

Post by UnderSeige » Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:53 pm

SingaporeClarets wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:45 am
They could just make it mandatory that those groups wear a face shield instead otherwise stay at home.

Just put the TV on and look at countries like Spain to see what happens with complacency. They will go from a tourism market on its knees to no tourism market at all, Benidorm will be the next Morecambe.
That could (and must) occur if large numbers of people are walking around stores without face coverings. The aim of the measure is to stop the spread of the infection. If the measure is not working because the number of unmasked people is too high then the measure need to be applied more strictly.

I would think that most disabled people and those with mental issues will be able to wear a face covering. The guiding principle given by MIND is: "If you feel able to wear a mask or face covering, then you must". There will be very few that need to go to indoor public areas unmasked.

You might get a number of idiots who go around pretending that they cannot wear a mask because of some fictitious disability and then boasting about it later. They could spoil it for the few genuine cases.

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Re: Mask day

Post by Devils_Advocate » Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:51 pm

Why is it always the Brexit loons 🤦‍♂️

Image

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Re: Mask day

Post by Quickenthetempo » Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:12 pm

Well I went to Tesco without a mask last night around 6.30pm, so only around 30 to 40 people in. I was told previously there would be staff outside handing out free masks but no sign of any staff.

Just a nice relaxing shop with no bother.

The only downside were the 6 discarded used masks across the carpark and empty trollies.

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Re: Mask day

Post by FactualFrank » Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:13 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:51 pm
Why is it always the Brexit loons 🤦‍♂️

Image
I thought that was Jimmy Savile for a second.

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Re: Mask day

Post by Leisure » Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:15 pm

FactualFrank wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:13 pm
I thought that was Jimmy Savile for a second.
Try Specsavers! ;)

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Re: Mask day

Post by HahaYeah » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:08 pm

Corona demo in Berlin

-Thousands of people demonstrated in Berlin against the corona measures. Hardly any participant followed rules such as mouthguard or distance.

-During the demonstration, location signs and flags from different federal states could be seen. The people made their displeasure about the protective measures against the corona virus with whistles and calls for “freedom” or “resistance”. Slogans such as “The biggest conspiracy theory is the corona pandemic” were also heard.


https://pledgetimes.com/corona-demo-in- ... ures-welt/

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Re: Mask day

Post by Vintage Claret » Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:50 pm

2 genuine question to anyone who thinks the pandemic is some kind of global conspiracy "how and why?"

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Re: Mask day

Post by FactualFrank » Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:59 pm

Vintage Claret wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:50 pm
2 genuine question to anyone who thinks the pandemic is some kind of global conspiracy "how and why?"
I've a mate and all I see on FB are statuses about it... thinking they're both feckin odd balls.

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Re: Mask day

Post by Wile E Coyote » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:05 pm

seems pretty simple to me,wear a mask.
Its not about numbskulled joe public to decide where there's risk.

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Re: Mask day

Post by dsr » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:13 am

Coronavirus was a lethal pandemic that killed tens of thousands in the UK.

But what is it now? What we are panicking about now is a disease that infected 4,000 people last week that we know about, few of whom are seriously ill. It is a higher figure than at the beginning of the month by about 50%, but then testing has increased as well so it doesn't necessarily mean the spread is increasing. Compare that with April when cases were doubling every day.

If this the first days of the epidemic, thoughts of lockdown would be laughable. So why are we locked down now?

What is the government's aim? We know what it was originally, because they told us. It was to manage the progress of the disease so that the NHS wasn't overwhelmed. But now? From what Whitty said yesterday, that lockdown may have progressed as far as it can, it seems that the rest of our lives may be no better than what they are now.

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Re: Mask day

Post by Wile E Coyote » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:22 am

nearing 50.000 dead in our country, no vaccine in sight, all ages vulnerable, but particularly the elderly and those with ongoing health issues. clearly millions within our population who simply do not care for anyone but themselves.
If one thing has become abundantly clear recently, it is that the British public are selfish uncaring dunces.

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Re: Mask day

Post by dsr » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:27 am

And here's another question. Figures for Friday said 63 people died of coronavirus but only 4 of those were in hospital. so what were the other 59 doing? Were they dying simply because they were very old and unwell and due to die of the next infection that came along? More than one sixth of deaths are flu or pneumonia in normal times. In this case, is coronavirus the "new flu"? They aren't generally allowed to put "cause of death - we all have to go sometime" on death certificates. They have to put a medical reason, even if the real reason is "too old to live any longer".

So how dangerous is this virus, as of now, to the general public?

I'm not saying it isn't dangerous and I'm not saying it is. What I'm saying is that what happened in March is not a reason for having restrictions in place now. What will or might happen in future is a reason for having restrictions in place now - and saying "there might be a second wave" isn't enough. We need to know the reasons of what this disease is doing now, and proper scientific reasons for believing what it will do later.

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Re: Mask day

Post by martin_p » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:34 am

dsr wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:27 am
And here's another question. Figures for Friday said 63 people died of coronavirus but only 4 of those were in hospital. so what were the other 59 doing? Were they dying simply because they were very old and unwell and due to die of the next infection that came along? More than one sixth of deaths are flu or pneumonia in normal times. In this case, is coronavirus the "new flu"? They aren't generally allowed to put "cause of death - we all have to go sometime" on death certificates. They have to put a medical reason, even if the real reason is "too old to live any longer".

So how dangerous is this virus, as of now, to the general public?

I'm not saying it isn't dangerous and I'm not saying it is. What I'm saying is that what happened in March is not a reason for having restrictions in place now. What will or might happen in future is a reason for having restrictions in place now - and saying "there might be a second wave" isn't enough. We need to know the reasons of what this disease is doing now, and proper scientific reasons for believing what it will do later.
The evidence is that what happened in March and April happened and there’s no scientific evidence that the virus has changed in any significant way since then.

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Re: Mask day

Post by dsr » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:34 am

Wile E Coyote wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:22 am
nearing 50.000 dead in our country, no vaccine in sight, all ages vulnerable, but particularly the elderly and those with ongoing health issues. clearly millions within our population who simply do not care for anyone but themselves.
If one thing has become abundantly clear recently, it is that the British public are selfish uncaring dunces.
Are you saying that we should remian in lockdown as a tribute to the nearly 50,000 dead?

At risk of sounding unfeeling, those nearly 50,000 will still be dead whatever we do for the future. Government policy now should be to do what is best for now, not what would have been best 6 months ago. As you say, no vaccine in sight. Does it really count as saving old peoples' lives if we just keep them locked up until they die of something else?

I don't know if you, a member of the British public, are a selfish uncaring dunce or not. You may be, you may not. I'm not.

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Re: Mask day

Post by dsr » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:38 am

martin_p wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:34 am
The evidence is that what happened in March and April happened and there’s no scientific evidence that the virus has changed in any significant way since then.
It's killing far fewer people. It's infecting far fewer people, the numbers are rising at a much slower rate. Is that not scientific evidence?

I should perhaps qualify - I wasn't specifically relating my questions to the specific nature of a unit of the virus, I was talking about the effect the virus has on the population. So stuff like better treatments and any general immunity come into play as well.

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Re: Mask day

Post by martin_p » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:41 am

dsr wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:34 am
Are you saying that we should remian in lockdown as a tribute to the nearly 50,000 dead?

At risk of sounding unfeeling, those nearly 50,000 will still be dead whatever we do for the future. Government policy now should be to do what is best for now, not what would have been best 6 months ago. As you say, no vaccine in sight. Does it really count as saving old peoples' lives if we just keep them locked up until they die of something else?

I don't know if you, a member of the British public, are a selfish uncaring dunce or not. You may be, you may not. I'm not.
Old people in general aren’t locked up and all that is being asked at the moment is that you socially distance and wear a mask in a number of indoor public spaces. That’s a world away from ‘stay at home’ for the vast majority of the population, but if people can’t make the comparatively minor sacrifices being asked now we’ll soon be back to it.

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Re: Mask day

Post by martin_p » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:43 am

dsr wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:38 am
It's killing far fewer people. It's infecting far fewer people, the numbers are rising at a much slower rate. Is that not scientific evidence?

I should perhaps qualify - I wasn't specifically relating my questions to the specific nature of a unit of the virus, I was talking about the effect the virus has on the population. So stuff like better treatments and any general immunity come into play as well.
It’s killing and infecting less because of the measures we’ve been taking over the last four months. In March the message wasn’t much more than wash your hands.

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Re: Mask day

Post by dsr » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:49 am

martin_p wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:41 am
Old people in general aren’t locked up and all that is being asked at the moment is that you socially distance and wear a mask in a number of indoor public spaces. That’s a world away from ‘stay at home’ for the vast majority of the population, but if people can’t make the comparatively minor sacrifices being asked now we’ll soon be back to it.
No visiting other households, no spectator sport, no schools (possibility of easing in September but not the priority), no physical contact with anyone, very few visitors to old folks' homes, children still can't see both sets of grandparents, it's very hard to see a doctor.

Old people aren't locked up, it's true. They're allowed to leave the house, look around, and go back inside. They can't go to church, they can't go to old folks' centres, they can't go and visit their grandchildren, they can't go to the library, the can't easily go on holiday and if they do they can't eat in the restaurant in most hotels. If they have friends still living, they can wave through the window at them.

It's a bit more than "socially distance and wear a mask in shops".

Are you happy with the reason "because Boris says so"? I'm not. I want a proper reason, with statistics, with models, with estimates of the numbers of deaths caused by lockdown as well as saved by lockdown. A detailed set of estimates as to why continued lockdown and austerity is saving lives.

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Re: Mask day

Post by Wile E Coyote » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:52 am

dsr wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:34 am
Are you saying that we should remian in lockdown as a tribute to the nearly 50,000 dead?

At risk of sounding unfeeling, those nearly 50,000 will still be dead whatever we do for the future. Government policy now should be to do what is best for now, not what would have been best 6 months ago. As you say, no vaccine in sight. Does it really count as saving old peoples' lives if we just keep them locked up until they die of something else?

I don't know if you, a member of the British public, are a selfish uncaring dunce or not. You may be, you may not. I'm not.
no, you sound like a bored teenager , eager to get back to illicit, littering music events in a shitty field somewhere special to the uncaring mobs of swaggering youth. god bless you G'uvnor.

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Re: Mask day

Post by dsr » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:53 am

martin_p wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:43 am
It’s killing and infecting less because of the measures we’ve been taking over the last four months. In March the message wasn’t much more than wash your hands.
Lockdown started on 23rd March or thereabouts and made no difference [numbers-wise] until back end of May. Since then it has shown continued decline even though the number of tests has rocketed.

And it still begs the question - what's the plan? Are we officially into "no release until vaccine" mode?
Last edited by dsr on Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mask day

Post by dsr » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:54 am

Wile E Coyote wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:52 am
no, you sound like a bored teenager , eager to get back to illicit, littering music events in a [deleted] field somewhere special to the uncaring mobs of swaggering youth. god bless you G'uvnor.
This things a bit more serious than "I do whatever Boris tells me so I'm a good person; you question it so you;re a bad person."

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Re: Mask day

Post by martin_p » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:58 am

dsr wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:49 am
No visiting other households, no spectator sport, no schools (possibility of easing in September but not the priority), no physical contact with anyone, very few visitors to old folks' homes, children still can't see both sets of grandparents, it's very hard to see a doctor.

Old people aren't locked up, it's true. They're allowed to leave the house, look around, and go back inside. They can't go to church, they can't go to old folks' centres, they can't go and visit their grandchildren, they can't go to the library, the can't easily go on holiday and if they do they can't eat in the restaurant in most hotels. If they have friends still living, they can wave through the window at them.

It's a bit more than "socially distance and wear a mask in shops".

Are you happy with the reason "because Boris says so"? I'm not. I want a proper reason, with statistics, with models, with estimates of the numbers of deaths caused by lockdown as well as saved by lockdown. A detailed set of estimates as to why continued lockdown and austerity is saving lives.
My folks are both in their mid 70s and have had family in their house, including grandchildren. My dad is back playing golf, they go to the shops wearing face masks and this is all following government guidelines.

I’m not ‘happy’ with any of this although I’m pleased the government has seen sense and decided to take action early as infection rates start to rise again. There’s no point looking for evidence at the moment, it doesn’t exist. The only fact is that we’ve had over 50,000 excess deaths since March. Without any new evidence then it makes sense to take the precautions required to stop that happening again as without any new evidence the assumption has to be that if we go back to normal it will.

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Re: Mask day

Post by martin_p » Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:03 am

dsr wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:53 am
Lockdown started on 23rd March or thereabouts and made no difference [numbers-wise] until back end of May. Since then it has shown continued decline even though the number of tests has rocketed.

And it still begs the question - what's the plan? Are we officially into "no release until vaccine" mode?
So in summary lockdown and the post lockdown measures we continue to take has brought infection rates down.

There’ll probably be no complete return to pre lockdown conditions until there’s a vaccine yes.
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Re: Mask day

Post by Wile E Coyote » Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:04 am

trouble is, whatever the government and science says, the dullard , fidgety know it all impatient, thirsty, beach loving, multi generational , football celebrating hordes will do things their way.

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Re: Mask day

Post by dsr » Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:45 am

martin_p wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:03 am
So in summary lockdown and the post lockdown measures we continue to take has brought infection rates down.

There’ll probably be no complete return to pre lockdown conditions until there’s a vaccine yes.
Are they even counting the deaths caused by lockdown? The WHO counts 10,000 additional deaths of children per month, caused by malnutrition, simply because the rich countries aren't buying as much from the poor countries. Shouldn't we be trying to return to normal for their sake? It's no use saving lives from coronavirus if we're losing them faster from other causes. What do the government models say?
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Re: Mask day

Post by FactualFrank » Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:52 am

Some people don't believe this exists.

That is how thick some people are. That's more worrying than the illness!!

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Re: Mask day

Post by dsr » Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:59 am

martin_p wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:58 am
My folks are both in their mid 70s and have had family in their house, including grandchildren. My dad is back playing golf, they go to the shops wearing face masks and this is all following government guidelines.

I’m not ‘happy’ with any of this although I’m pleased the government has seen sense and decided to take action early as infection rates start to rise again. There’s no point looking for evidence at the moment, it doesn’t exist. The only fact is that we’ve had over 50,000 excess deaths since March. Without any new evidence then it makes sense to take the precautions required to stop that happening again as without any new evidence the assumption has to be that if we go back to normal it will.
But the idea that they can never again hold their grandchildren? Must be galling. I doubt that playing golf will make up for it.

Other countries have lifted lockdown and not had 50,000 excess deaths or their pro rata equivalent. Can't their experiences be used as evidence?

On the other hand, if we are genuinely coming to a world where it is proposed, because of coronavirus, that grandchildren will never be allowed to hug their grandparents (or not all of them) - should we not consider whether the short term excess deaths, and possible long term slight decline in average life expectancy, are a price worth paying? There is more to life than not dying of coronavirus.

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Re: Mask day

Post by martin_p » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:41 am

dsr wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:59 am
But the idea that they can never again hold their grandchildren? Must be galling.
I suspect it would be had anyone ever said that.

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Re: Mask day

Post by dsr » Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:48 am

martin_p wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:41 am
I suspect it would be had anyone ever said that.
That's what Whitty did say. He said that he believed we may have reached the limits of how far lockdown can go; and as it stands at the moment, the majority of grandchildren can't hug the majority of grandparents because there aren't enough "bubbles" available.

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Re: Mask day

Post by SingaporeClarets » Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:19 pm

dsr wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:59 am
But the idea that they can never again hold their grandchildren? Must be galling. I doubt that playing golf will make up for it.

Other countries have lifted lockdown and not had 50,000 excess deaths or their pro rata equivalent. Can't their experiences be used as evidence?

On the other hand, if we are genuinely coming to a world where it is proposed, because of coronavirus, that grandchildren will never be allowed to hug their grandparents (or not all of them) - should we not consider whether the short term excess deaths, and possible long term slight decline in average life expectancy, are a price worth paying? There is more to life than not dying of coronavirus.
Melbourne?

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Re: Mask day

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:30 pm

Edit - nevermind, pointless arguing on a Sunday.
Last edited by Bordeauxclaret on Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mask day

Post by dsr » Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:30 pm

SingaporeClarets wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:19 pm
Melbourne?
I don't think Melbourne's case is in any way compatible with ours. you can't have a "second wave" before the first one.

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Re: Mask day

Post by dsr » Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:31 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:30 pm
Where has he actually said this? From the interview I saw he was saying we have reached the limited on lockdown easing, not the limit of lockdown.
That's what I meant. That this is as good as it's going to get; whatever isn't allowed now, will either stay the same or get further restricted as a trade-off for (eg.) schools.

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Re: Mask day

Post by Quickenthetempo » Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:09 pm

Is anyone actually happy that you can be positive with no symptoms?

Can you imagine someone ringing up work next year. I can't come in today I have got flu. I might not have any symptoms but I bought an unreliable test off the internet and it came back positive?


I read today that anyone who has had a flu vaccine will come back positive automatically.
Has anyone had a flu jab and come back negative?

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Re: Mask day

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:53 pm

If anyone is confused around what you can or cannot do then here is a quick rundown of Matt Hancoks latest lockdown rules.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekO3Z3XWa0Q
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martin_p
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Re: Mask day

Post by martin_p » Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:20 pm

dsr wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:48 am
That's what Whitty did say. He said that he believed we may have reached the limits of how far lockdown can go; and as it stands at the moment, the majority of grandchildren can't hug the majority of grandparents because there aren't enough "bubbles" available.
Go on then, find me the quote where he says ‘grandparents can never hug their grandchildren’.

Or perhaps he said this is as far as we can go without a vaccine.

dsr
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Re: Mask day

Post by dsr » Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:36 pm

He didn't use those words. I don't see that that's relevant, though, because the words he did use mean the same thing.

Rules:
1. Each household can share a bubble with only one other.
2. You can visit households that aren't in your bubble but must maintain social distancing.
3. Social distancing means no hugging.

The average child has more than two househlds with grandparents in, so the average child can't be hugged by the majority of its grandparents.

martin_p
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Re: Mask day

Post by martin_p » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:01 pm

dsr wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:36 pm
He didn't use those words. I don't see that that's relevant, though, because the words he did use mean the same thing.

Rules:
1. Each household can share a bubble with only one other.
2. You can visit households that aren't in your bubble but must maintain social distancing.
3. Social distancing means no hugging.

The average child has more than two househlds with grandparents in, so the average child can't be hugged by the majority of its grandparents.
Ok, whatever, if you think that means forever then that’s up to you and the fact that nobody has said that or anything that means that clearly isn’t going to change your mind. It’s odd that you value the economy over peoples lives given you’ve spent the last four years arguing that blue passports are more important than the economy. It’s a strange order of priorities that you have but I guess it takes all sorts.

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Re: Mask day

Post by dsr » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:58 pm

martin_p wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:01 pm
Ok, whatever, if you think that means forever then that’s up to you and the fact that nobody has said that or anything that means that clearly isn’t going to change your mind. It’s odd that you value the economy over peoples lives given you’ve spent the last four years arguing that blue passports are more important than the economy. It’s a strange order of priorities that you have but I guess it takes all sorts.
It's quite impressive in a pathetic sort of way to invent three things that I haven't said and shake your head about them. One straw man is odd enough, but three in one go?

It's pretty much undeniable IMO that our lockdown is killing more people than it saves. I have quoted several times the WHO number (10,000 additional children per month dying of malnutrition) and have not received any comment from you about that, as you prefer to completely invent stuff about blue passports and valuing the economy above people's lives. (Those are both complete inventions on your part, which is a pretty scummy thing to do.) But back to the WHO cost in lives - should I not care about foreign children's lives?

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Re: Mask day

Post by martin_p » Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:37 pm

dsr wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:58 pm
It's quite impressive in a pathetic sort of way to invent three things that I haven't said and shake your head about them. One straw man is odd enough, but three in one go?

It's pretty much undeniable IMO that our lockdown is killing more people than it saves. I have quoted several times the WHO number (10,000 additional children per month dying of malnutrition) and have not received any comment from you about that, as you prefer to completely invent stuff about blue passports and valuing the economy above people's lives. (Those are both complete inventions on your part, which is a pretty scummy thing to do.) But back to the WHO cost in lives - should I not care about foreign children's lives?
It’s called hyperbole, you should look it up.

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Re: Mask day

Post by dsr » Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:45 pm

martin_p wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:37 pm
It’s called hyperbole, you should look it up.
No interest in dying children?

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Re: Mask day

Post by martin_p » Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:04 am

dsr wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:45 pm
No interest in dying children?
Plenty thanks. But me not wearing a mask or us opening up the uk more isn’t going to save a single child outside the uk. I’ve read the WHO thing you mention and the increased deaths you refer to are the result of lockdowns in countries where children and their families are living literally on the breadline and the closure of, for example, a local market can lead to no income and no food. I’d agree that countries where this is happening have an almost impossible balancing act with lockdown, but it’s not something any lockdown measures here can affect either way.

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Re: Mask day

Post by ŽižkovClaret » Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:13 am

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:51 pm
Why is it always the Brexit loons 🤦‍♂️

Image
Simply put, they know there's gold in being a gobshite

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Re: Mask day

Post by Billy Balfour » Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:30 am

Mugs will buy into any old bullshit and like you say, there's gold in them thar hills.

dsr
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Re: Mask day

Post by dsr » Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:36 am

martin_p wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:04 am
Plenty thanks. But me not wearing a mask or us opening up the uk more isn’t going to save a single child outside the uk. I’ve read the WHO thing you mention and the increased deaths you refer to are the result of lockdowns in countries where children and their families are living literally on the breadline and the closure of, for example, a local market can lead to no income and no food. I’d agree that countries where this is happening have an almost impossible balancing act with lockdown, but it’s not something any lockdown measures here can affect either way.
Not 10,000 certainly. But more than zero. If we buy less from poor countries they get poorer. People are already dying in this country because of lockdown, partly because seeing a doctor is discouraged, and partly because (eldrerly especially) are getting older faster because of lack of social interaction.

So it still goes back to the original question - what is the government trying to do? What is their target? They are giving the impression that their overriding aim is to try and ensure no-one ever catches coronavirus, or as close to that as they can manage. Are they doing that? If so, why? The original models showed 250,000-500,000 dying without intervention. Models now must be far more accurate. What do they show? What assumptions are they using? Are they basing this lockdown on what they know about the virus, or about what they fear might happen but they have no evidence for?

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