Bournemouth & Hawkeye

[CombatClaret]

I would be deeply aggrieved If I was involved with Bournemouth, will we see a legal action?

The Premier League outsourced a critical decision making tool to a private limited company who admitted failure to deliver on it's responsibilities.
An apology and explanation was made but the ramification financially are huge.

I don't think this opinion should just be put down to 'Bitter Bournemouth Fans'.

[jedi_master]

I think there is a very real legal battle/discussion to be had on this topic. It wasn’t a referee/VAR decision (I.e, subjective), this was a failure of technology which is relied upon and was confirmed as such.

That negligence has just cost Bournemouth £150m or so.

Surely this is something that will get a lot of talk in the next few days/weeks. I think the only fair thing to do (though it would never happen) is to have the Aston Villa v Sheffield United fixture replayed.

[ClaretTony]

I would say Bournemouth's inability to get enough points has cost them to be honest, and had Sheffield United gone in front that night then maybe Villa would have approached the rest of the game differently. Absolutely no reason to replay a game.

[BurnleyFC]

They’ve had enough time since then to get themselves out of trouble.

They only have themselves to blame.

[Zlatan]

If it was a points advantage as a result of a dodgy VAR decision in the final game of the season I could see a legal challenge being possible. As it is, they didn’t get enough points to stay up.

We could argue a few of the dodgy decisions against us (Wolves etc) and try to gain a place in Europe, but as we sign up to the completion and play by the rules of the competition (including VAR) we can’t do that.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

9 wins, 7 draws and 22 losses this season.

That one game didn't relegate them, they lost 21 other games.

[Willy]

I agree 100% with this post.Villa gained a point in a 0-0 draw after Sheffield United weren't awarded a legitimate goal because of the failure of the Hawkeye technology.
This was exactly the situation where VAR should have been used to correct the error.
To suggest that Bournemouth had enough chances in their other 37 matches to nullify this mistake is irrelevant.
If this had happened to us I'd be livid.

[CombatClaret]

If it was a points advantage as a result of a dodgy VAR decision in the final game of the season I could see a legal challenge being possible. As it is, they didn’t get enough points to stay up.

We could argue a few of the dodgy decisions against us (Wolves etc) and try to gain a place in Europe, but as we sign up to the completion and play by the rules of the competition (including VAR) we can’t do that.

It wasn't a 'decisions' though like "Were his hands up to protect his face" type handball. It was a binary yes or no, 100% in the hands of technology and the tech failed.
All teams signed up to the rules, but the rules were under the assumption that Hawkeye works.

Villa stayed up by 1 point, the failure of Hawkeye delivered them a point.

Saying nothing would have changed is to ignore the effect of causality, cause and effect, If Sheff U win that game the season does not carry on as it played out in our Universe, it causes a ripple and completely new events would have taken place.

[tiger76]

I think there is a very real legal battle/discussion to be had on this topic. It wasn’t a referee/VAR decision (I.e, subjective), this was a failure of technology which is relied upon and was confirmed as such.

That negligence has just cost Bournemouth £150m or so.

Surely this is something that will get a lot of talk in the next few days/weeks. I think the only fair thing to do (though it would never happen) is to have the Aston Villa v Sheffield United fixture replayed.

I can understand Bournemouth's annoyance, but they did have plenty of chances to get themselves out of trouble, before and since that Villa-Sheff U game.

And i don't see what obvious legal avenues are open to them, but i'm not a lawyer, so they may have a case, but i doubt it.

In the interest of fairness i'd suggest a play-off between Bournemouth & Villa but that won't happen.

It would add to the end of season drama though wouldn't it.

It must be somewhat embarrassing for the richest league in the world that their much acclaimed goal line technology system has failed in such a high profile way.

[ElectroClaret]

That negligence has just cost Bournemouth £150m or so.

Bournemouth being so sh1te has cost Bournemouth £150m or so.
Same as Norwich and Watford.

[alboclaret]

You would feel fairly miffed if you were Bournemouth. If the goal was given and it finished 1-0 then villa and Bournemouth would have finished both with
W -9
D - 7
L - 22
GD- -27
Pts - 34

Play off surly

[Rileybobs]

You would feel fairly miffed if you were Bournemouth. If the goal was given and it finished 1-0 then villa and Bournemouth would have finished both with
W -9
D - 7
L - 22
GD- -27
Pts - 34

Play off surly

The contentious goal was in a game between Villa and Sheff Utd, it didn’t feature Bournemouth.

That said, as hard as it may be to take, officiating errors take place in every game so I really can’t see how this incident should be treated any differently. There’s nothing to say that Villa wouldn’t have approached the rest of that particular game differently had the goal not stood. It’s tough luck on Bournemouth but they had the opportunity to pick more points up throughout the course of the season.

[Zlatan]

The time for anyone to take action was immediately after the game in question though, not weeks after because it doesn’t suit them now

[CombatClaret]

You would feel fairly miffed if you were Bournemouth. If the goal was given and it finished 1-0 then villa and Bournemouth would have finished both with
W -9
D - 7
L - 22
GD- -27
Pts - 34

Play off surly

Again this ignores causality. Both teams (infact all teams involved in relegation race) would have approached future games differently. Hell even the game plays out different.
Actions cause ripples.
To use a game as an example If a goal is ruled out at 1-1, the game does not play out the same as had the goal stood. The ball gets played from a goal kick as opposed to the center, even this tiny thing completely alters how the future game plays out.

In the alternate universe where that Sheff U goal is given and entirely new and potential different future occurs due to it and the micro actions & decisions that stem from it.

[CombatClaret]

That said, as hard as it may be to take, officiating errors take place in every game so I really can’t see how this incident should be treated any differently.

Officiating errors involve people not computers assumed to be always correct.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Are those claiming Bournemouth have a case forgetting that time when West Ham clearly and knowingly broke 3rd ownership rules that season that Sheff Utd went down and were only fined a paltry amount for it?
That was a much more contentious issue than goal line tech failing to spot a clear and obvious goal.

[CombatClaret]

Are those claiming Bournemouth have a case forgetting that time when West Ham clearly and knowingly broke 3rd ownership rules that season that Sheff Utd went down and were only fined a paltry amount for it?
That was a much more contentious issue than goal line tech failing to spot a clear and obvious goal.

Again it's the different between the failure of people decisions and an autonomous technology system with one, simple binary task.

[Rileybobs]

Officiating errors involve people not computers assumed to be always correct.

It’s still an officiating error. The on-field officials, and the off-field officials had the power to intervene.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Again it's the different between the failure of people decisions and an autonomous technology system with one, simple binary task.

It made an error, it was unforseen, wasn't intentional and may well happen again.

West Ham knowingly broke the rules and were given a paltry fine whilst laughing at the ruling.

[dsr]

Officiating errors involve people not computers assumed to be always correct.

This was an error by the referee.

It's a simple matter. The referee did not give a goal - was he right or was he wrong? If he was wrong, then it was an officiating error.

The ref has various lines of support, including linesmen, VAR, Hawkeye, and fourth officials. But all decisions are his responsibility and he alone makes the decision, under advice from his human or electronic assistants. In this case, he got it wrong.

Legally, they won't have a leg to stand on. It's a condition of playing that the referee's decision will be accepted even if it's wrong. Clubs aren't allowed to go to court because they don't like the ref's decision. Bournemouth would have to prove that the PL either didn't act in good faith, or that they didn't make reasonable efforts to get it right - if the PL is held to have put reasonable systems in place, in good faith, then that's the end of it.

[dsr]

I think there is a very real legal battle/discussion to be had on this topic. It wasn’t a referee/VAR decision (I.e, subjective), this was a failure of technology which is relied upon and was confirmed as such.

That negligence has just cost Bournemouth £150m or so.

Surely this is something that will get a lot of talk in the next few days/weeks. I think the only fair thing to do (though it would never happen) is to have the Aston Villa v Sheffield United fixture replayed.

You need a lot more evidence to prove negligence. It's not an automatic sign of negligence if a computer system doesn't work once in 9,000 times - you need to prove that they didn't do something that any reasonable computer systems firm should have done.

[dsr]

The Premier League outsourced a critical decision making tool to a private limited company who admitted failure to deliver on it's responsibilities.

Hawkeye isn't a decision making tool. It's a means of advising the referee, but it isn't definitive - the referee has the final say.

[conyoviejo]

They were unlucky at Burnley when they went down and scored then were pulled back to give a penalty to us.. VAR hasn't done Bournemouth any favours. Lol

[Claret]

The Hawkeye error made no difference to the final league positions. If the goal had stood, Villa would have had 1 less point, putting them level on points with Bournemouth with both teams on the same goal difference. Villa scored more goals so they would still have finished above Bournemouth.

[Claret]

They were unlucky at Burnley when they went down and scored then were pulled back to give a penalty to us.. VAR hasn't done Bournemouth any favours. Lol

Yes. This was a tragedy in Bournemouth’s season. In the Burnley v Bournemouth game, even though VAR may have got the decisions right (debatable) and even though I am a Burnley fan, I still think VAR should take a running jump.

[mdd2]

The Hawkeye error made no difference to the final league positions. If the goal had stood, Villa would have had 1 less point, putting them level on points with Bournemouth with both teams on the same goal difference. Villa scored more goals so they would still have finished above Bournemouth.

Villa have a GD of -26 which would have been -27 had they lost 1-0 to the Blades and Bmouth would have stayed up on goal difference of -25

[ClaretTony]

They were unlucky at Burnley when they went down and scored then were pulled back to give a penalty to us.. VAR hasn't done Bournemouth any favours. Lol

I wouldn’t say they were unlucky at all. That they went down and scored has no relevance, Adam Smith had handled the ball.

[Jakubclaret]

I wouldn’t say they were unlucky at all. That they went down and scored has no relevance, Adam Smith had handled the ball.

Luck evens itself out, if every single result injustice was analysed throughout every single fixture in the league & amended correctly, it’d be all over the place, surely a point needs to be reached where this is final & beyond question, every single team over the course will have something to be unhappy about, it only becomes a concern to the bottom 3 or the top half qualifying.

[ClaretTony]

Luck evens itself out, if every single result injustice was analysed throughout every single fixture in the league & amended correctly, it’d be all over the place, surely a point needs to be reached where this is final & beyond question, every single team over the course will have something to be unhappy about, it only becomes a concern to the bottom 3 or the top half qualifying.

We’ve seen with VAR this season that we still get far too many poor decisions. We all know that the decision at Villa was a poor one because it should have been overturned. It wasn’t. Doesn’t really matter that it was goal line technology. It was still no more than a poor decision.

[BenWickes]

I would say Bournemouth's inability to get enough points has cost them to be honest, and had Sheffield United gone in front that night then maybe Villa would have approached the rest of the game differently. Absolutely no reason to replay a game.

Have to agree with this. You generally finish where you deserve to. Most clubs have games where decisions go against them. It's how you react as a team. Bournemouth had ample opportunity to turn this round against teams that were considered winnable games. They didn't turn up for several games after the restart. They made Newcastle look like Barcelona in one game. You can't pin the blame on one decision when your team can't grasp the concept that you're in trouble and perform as they have. Burnley is a case on point. We looked doomed at one stage. Ended up with kids and two (three) keepers on the bench and still won. But it was up to us to pull together and perform. Bournemouth didn't until it was too late.

[claretonthecoast1882]

They took 1 point from 2 games against Norwich and managed to let Newcastle score 4 at their place, I think they will accept relegation quietly.

[ClaretTony]

Most clubs have games where decisions go against them. It's how you react as a team.

When they conceded the penalty at the Turf which meant it went 2-0 when they thought they'd equalised, their manager said afterwards: "I think from that moment, when it went 2-0, I thought we were mentally spent in the game. I thought psychologically we couldn’t come back again. It was very difficult for the players but up until that moment I thought we played really well."

As you said, it's how you react as a team. They just basically packed it in at that point.

[JohnMac]

If only Eddie had shown more passion and waved his arms a bit he might have spurred his team on to a few more points. Come on, admit it, he is a bit Henmanesque...

[Dyched]

It made a massive difference in their season. Massive. Now I know as well as you that had that been Burnley several posters opinions would change dramatically. Again people basing their opinions on what colour t shirts footballers wear and disliking Eddie Howe. Odd.

[dougcollins]

It is ironic as Hawkeye is the only bit of the technology that isn't subjective.

Unacceptable to be honest, and I'm sure some lawyer can make something out of it.

[bobinho]

For all this blaming of Hawkeye, surely with a linesman doing his/her “thing”, it should only really be used to check if someone’s not sure?

100% an officiating error. Linesman should’ve flagged to indicate a goal. Trouble is, officials are now too reliant on the tech doing their job for them... except this time, it didn’t.

[dougcollins]

I suppose it was one of those cases where it was difficult for the lino to see - one of those cases for which Hawkeye was introduced to remove doubt.

[BenWickes]

It made a massive difference in their season. Massive. Now I know as well as you that had that been Burnley several posters opinions would change dramatically. Again people basing their opinions on what colour t shirts footballers wear and disliking Eddie Howe. Odd.

Not turning up at all against Newcastle or Palace was massive as well considering their predicament. Palace lost seven of their last eight but even they had a stroll down at the Vitality. If people are going to pin one mistake on their season then they'd do well to remember. Those two performances, which were must win and Bournemouth didn't even turn up. if they'd put in any effort at all against them and got two points. They'd still be a PL club. Newcastle could have scored 7. Newcastle we are talking about, not Liverpool. Hell they were that bad, Newcastle looked like Barca! Even Palace looked good against them. It's time to have a long hard look at yourselves if you put in performances like that when you KNOW you're in trouble.

[claret wizard]

TalkSPORT tweeting that Bournemouth seeking legal advice on Hawkeye.

[Steve1956]

I hope Bournemouth persue this just because of the way Villa celebrated like they had actually acheived something....

[Murger]

Bournemouth got relegated because they were shite. No other reason.

[Steve1956]

Bournemouth got relegated because they were shite. No other reason.

There is that mate i agree,but Villa were just as shite,but just got a tad luckier than Bournemouth

[Ashingtonclaret46]

According to IFAB, who make the Law changes, it states that "a match is not invalidated because of a malfunction of VAR technology (as for goal-line technology)"
As usual, any protest by Bournemouth will be subject to lots of 'ifs' and 'buts' and I don't think that they will win any case.