Are our children far more intelligent than we were?

[Mala591]

In the 1970's only 10% achieved an A grade at A-level (hens' teeth springs to mind)

In 2020 27.6% (yes 27.6%) achieved an A or A* grade

Our children/grandchildren must be far more intelligent than we were...

[Rileybobs]

Probably more intelligent, maybe not far more intelligent, certainly more academic.

[conyoviejo]

They probably are, but quite a lot lack the higher degree of common sense .

[jdrobbo]

As a Year Six teacher, I’d say that children are exposed to a lot more curriculum content at a much lower age. I teach a lot of things that I wasn’t taught until year eight or nine back in the late 90s. Crikey, we weren’t even taught to use commas for clauses back then, let alone use of the subjunctive verb form or past progressive.

However, I do think the curriculum is very narrow, can be bland in places and that there’s far too much emphasis on testing.

I think my generation had a more well-rounded curriculum experience and socially, we’re far better. Intelligence manifests itself in a variety of ways.

[BigF]

I don't think so.

There are quotas for each grade each year and so that number of students will get that grade even if their marks were less than previous years. Similarly, students my have gained good marks but will be placed in the quota for lower grades

Also, as times have changed so have these gradings. Equally,consider how many students now go to university compared to earlier years. I don't think it is easy to really compare "then and now" for education exams.

[ksrclaret]

It’s because A Levels were proper hard back then. Like, seriously proper hard.

These days you can usually achieve an A if you colour in the pictures they provide in the paper.

[mdd2]

Language was an O level when i was at and 25 years later my stepson did `EL as an A level doing work i did at O level-so some of it is a dumbing down. The 6th formers i have seen on TV recently are far more articulate than I was at 18, and two years earlier I was spelling medecine on my Uni application forms. Fortunately that didn't count against me.

[LongsideClaret]

It is possible but it is unlikely that students are significantly cleverer than those in the 1970’s.

What is undeniable is that teaching methods have been refined, they have access to unlimited and around the clock resources and study methods like the use of past papers is much better. This is why exam results generally get better each year.

Rather than “exams getting easier” which is what you often hear lazily spouted.

[BenWickes]

It’s because A Levels were proper hard back then. Like, seriously proper hard.

These days you can usually achieve an A if you colour in the pictures they provide in the paper.

[duncandisorderly]

As soon as degrees were bought rather than earned then the standard had to drop.

[NottsClaret]

Anyone who thinks standards have dropped hasn't got kids in the education system now.

I was at school in the 80s / early 90s and what we did at GCSE level, they're doing now in the first year at secondary school. I doubt they're more intelligent, not sure evolution works that quickly, but they're certainly pushed much further academically than we were.

[Zlatan]

I would expect our offspring to be slightly more intelligent on average. However, let’s not confuse intelligence with knowledge.

[duncandisorderly]

I would expect our offspring to be slightly more intelligent on average. However, let’s not confuse intelligence with knowledge.

Let's not confuse it with wisdom, more to the point.

[Zlatan]

Let's not confuse it with wisdom, more to the point.

Wisdom is a different parameter altogether

[Rileybobs]

Back in my day it were reyt proper hard to get o levels.

[Colburn_Claret]

No
Individually there are bound to be some far cleverer.
I think modern teaching methods aren't as good as in my youth. We learnt things by rote, but you had to learn them, because it all came back to bite you in end of term exams.
Going off my children's time at school, and it may have changed since, part learning, part course work, was just an excuse to plagiarise a text book, and nothing sank in.
My children are always asking me how I know so much, and it's simply because I learnt so much at school.
There have always been over and under achievers, then and now, but I shake my head at some of the idiots I've had to work with in the last 15 years. They are far less educated than the under achievers of 45 years ago.
I also think there is a lack of discipline in modern schooling, echoing the lack of discipline in the modern society. It doesn't help.

[ksrclaret]

I wondered how long it would take Colburn to show up on this thread.

There is a big problem in schools because kids aren’t being beaten anymore for bad behaviour and they’re not even walking to the chippy of an evening.

[bobinho]

Certainly more academic, but more intelligent? Not a chance. Well, generally not a chance. I know some young people with plenty of GCSE's, and almost all of them are thicker than a whale omelette. I am genuinely stunned at how little they know about anything really. I mean basic stuff, not things you'd pick up along life's journey.

Give them a computer or a phone, they can do anything...or rather they can get the computer to do anything.

I suppose you could give a sixth form leaver an `a` level paper from 1982 and see how they get on, but i suppose the curriculum would be so different it would be a waste of time.

What i'm really saying is if our kids are more intelligent than the smart kids were when i wasn't one of 'em, then i'm remembering people as smarter than they were.

Or to put it another way... what Duncan said.

[bobinho]

I wondered how long it would take Colburn to show up on this thread.

There is a big problem in schools because kids aren’t being beaten anymore for bad behaviour and they’re not even walking to the chippy of an evening.

That's not quite what he said now is it?

And whether you agree with his opinion regarding corporal punishment or not, reading the rest of his post, he has a point...

[Redbeard]

When I was five or so years old, a Great Aunt whenever I asked 'how did you know that' would tell me that a little bird had told her.

I was fascinated enough to ask her where this occurred, and she showed me through her kitchen window where on the windowsill the bird would land in order to tell her things.

Years later I used this with my own daughter: three at the time. I was mortified when she gave me a puzzled look and said 'But Papa...birds don't talk!'


But then later still she became a Liverpool fan, which I suppose sort of evened it out...

[ksrclaret]

That's not quite what he said now is it?

And whether you agree with his opinion regarding corporal punishment or not, reading the rest of his post, he has a point...

Sorry, those comments were made on another thread by Colburn discussing 'this generation".

[claretabroad]

The speed of information flow is far different. Research papers, journals and books are only a couple of clicks away on the internet. I have recently gone back to school and the difference between now and the first time around is ridiculous. Are they smarter? doubtful. Do they have access to better educational materials? absolutely.

[bobinho]

When I was five or so years old, a Great Aunt whenever I asked 'how did you know that' would tell me that a little bird had told her.

I was fascinated enough to ask her where this occurred, and she showed me through her kitchen window where on the windowsill the bird would land in order to tell her things.

Years later I used this with my own daughter: three at the time. I was mortified when she gave me a puzzled look and said 'But Papa...birds don't talk!'


But then later still she became a Liverpool fan, which I suppose sort of evened it out...

Some lads i work with often ask "how did you know that?"

I just say "Boys, they hide information like that in books..."

Then they just look at me all blank like...

Maybe it's because they can't believe i can read.

[mdd2]

Oh yes, knowledge and wisdom? What is the difference you may ask?
Well one example is that to know that a tomato is a fruit-well that is knowledge.
To not put said fruit in your fruit salad, well that is wisdom.

[Zlatan]

Oh yes, knowledge and wisdom? What is the difference you may ask?
Well one example is that to know that a tomato is a fruit-well that is knowledge.
To not put said fruit in your fruit salad, well that is wisdom.

...and intelligence is the ability to work out how to make a fruit salad for yourself

[TheFamilyCat]

My son isn't. He's three and I always beat him at chess.

[ClaretTony]

In the 1970's only 10% achieved an A grade at A-level (hens' teeth springs to mind)

Wow, I’m impressed. I never knew I was in the top 10%.

[Rileybobs]

Surely evolution proves that the human race has become progressively more intelligent over time. So why would today’s children be less intelligent than those of the past?

[Somethingfishy]

I don't think they are smarter but they do absorb and learn more because they get taught more at a quicker pace. I put this down to the teaching resources being a lot more freely available.
No more slow writing on a blackboard and the teacher having to explain. No studying of old boring text books. They have whiteboards that can bring a video or text up off Youtube etc that helps the teacher explain a lot quicker and more concisely. Basically they can get through a lot more and teach in more depth.
My daughter is going into year 6 but she already has a smattering of knowledge of French and Spanish. We didn't start that until high school and as for computing..they learn to code at an early age.

Technlogy has enabled vastly improved efficiency of teaching.

[Wile E Coyote]

no, they are definately not more intelligent.
probably same as its always been.
intelligence is difficult to gauge, but previous generations weren't given the same educational opportunities anyway.
Certainly in the 60's 70's schools were content to churn out factory fodder, tons of hugely clever people consigned to drudgery of production work.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Kids now have more access to information than any generation before them.
It's easier to study their school subjects because used correctly the Internet can be a wonderful tool.

There will be kids who're cleverer than their peers, but equally a number of kids won't be any different.

[tim_noone]

no, they are definately not more intelligent.
probably same as its always been.
intelligence is difficult to gauge, but previous generations weren't given the same educational opportunities anyway.
Certainly in the 60's 70's schools were content to churn out factory fodder, tons of hugely clever people consigned to drudgery of production work.

To your last paragraph.... I would totally agree. School doesn't really teach you anything about real Life.I Like Robert Kiyosakis take on things..

[tim_noone]

Wow, I’m impressed. I never knew I was in the top 10%.

Dont believe every thing you read on a msg.Board

[ClaretTony]

Dont believe every thing you read on a msg.Board

I’ll believe it when it’s good news

[dibraidio]

I watched a documentary recently which talked about this. There were studies done in Finland (Army admissions tests) and the US that showed that average intelligence is actually falling. It has been linked to a lack of iodine in the diets of pregnant women and children and the prevalence of bromide, chlorine and flouride which the body assimilates through the thyroid thinking it is iodine (they are all halogens) but the resulting hormones are not the ones needed for correct brain development.

One of the main culprits they identified was the fire retardant PBDE which was banned 15 years ago so it maybe that the trend will reverse when all of the soft furnishings bought 15 years ago are all gone from our homes.

[huw.Y.WattfromWare]

Humans are always evolving upwards so probably slightly cleverer.
Different eras, different teaching methods and curriculums so difficult to quantify.

My grand-daughter was doing research and writing essays on Greek history and Germany, using her laptop, whilst still at primary school. Powerpoint presentations also. I was astounded at her level and I don’t believe her to be outstanding academically.

[Wile E Coyote]

Humans are always evolving upwards so probably slightly cleverer.
Different eras, different teaching methods and curriculums so difficult to quantify.

My grand-daughter was doing research and writing essays on Greek history and Germany, using her laptop, whilst still at primary school. Powerpoint presentations also. I was astounded at her level and I don’t believe her to be outstanding academically.

just look at some online interviews, vox pop style things, modern youth. they are barely above amoeba.

[Paul Waine]

It's an odd thing. We are asking if the younger generation is more intelligent than previous generations. On another thread we are asking if this is the worst government we've ever had?

I'd hazard a guess that governments may have been smarter in previous years or maybe it's just that the rest of us didn't know what was going on.

Has anyone got an algorithm that can help us puzzle this out?

[Rileybobs]

It's an odd thing. We are asking if the younger generation is more intelligent than previous generations. On another thread we are asking if this is the worst government we've ever had?

I'd hazard a guess that governments may have been smarter in previous years or maybe it's just that the rest of us didn't know what was going on.

Has anyone got an algorithm that can help us puzzle this out?

Is it possible that less smart people are interested in going into politics.

And to be fair, this thread is about ‘our children’ which suggests that we are discussing the youth of today rather than the middle aged people who run the country.

[Bullabill]

Teaching has a huge part to play in this question. I was at St.Andrews primary school (Duke Bar) in 1953 aged 10, and some of us in the class were taken by a teacher to learn the basics of trigonometry. We went out to Rakehead Rec. and measured the height of the factory chimney using rudimentary equipment, then back in class were taught the maths to work it all out. Brilliant stuff. Is there that sort of teaching these days?
More likely the kids are taught to press a button on a device they can point at the chimney and read its height instantly on a LCD screen.

[huw.Y.WattfromWare]

just look at some online interviews, vox pop style things, modern youth. they are barely above amoeba.

I feel sad for you if you judge a whole generation of kids on some interviews you’ve seen on tv. Our generation went down to the seaside on their scooters and motorbikes looking for a fight, the following generation made millions stop going to football by looking for a fight and also started the mass drug movement that has done so much harm to the planet. I blame parents drug taking for so much that is wrong in their kids today but the OP didn’t ask that. He asked about their intelligence.

[Burnley Ace]

University leaders warned that the large number of A* and A grades awarded by teachers would create an oversupply of successful students relative to the number of places available. These top grades are up from 25.2 per cent last year to 37.7 per cent under teacher assessment.

Evidence of how better this generation of students are.

[Burnley Ace]

It's an odd thing. We are asking if the younger generation is more intelligent than previous generations. On another thread we are asking if this is the worst government we've ever had?

I'd hazard a guess that governments may have been smarter in previous years or maybe it's just that the rest of us didn't know what was going on.

Has anyone got an algorithm that can help us puzzle this out?

When you pay MPs less than a newly qualified solicitor in a City law firm is it any wonder that the most able shun politics?

[BenWickes]

I don't think they're more intelligent. They're just more in tune with modern life than the older generation. Just as my Dad could barely work the VHS, let alone programme it. He always asked me to. I guess it's a generational thing. I had my vinyl L.P's out one day and my step-daughter asked me what they were. She honestly looked at me like I was from Mars when I said they played music. She thought they were plastic clay pigeons. You should have seen her face when I introduced her to a cassette tape and a walkman. Yet I struggle to work an iPod.

[Paul Waine]

Is it possible that less smart people are interested in going into politics.

And to be fair, this thread is about ‘our children’ which suggests that we are discussing the youth of today rather than the middle aged people who run the country.

I may be a little older than you, Rb. I'm already watching my grandchildren grow up.

You raise an interesting point: are "less smart people going into politics?" What is it that is keeping the "smart people" away from politics, if this is the case? And, why does the electorate vote for the "less smart" ones? If that is the case, what does that say about the intelligence of the "youth of today?"

[Paul Waine]

When you pay MPs less than a newly qualified solicitor in a City law firm is it any wonder that the most able shun politics?

There is no reason why you can't be both a "solicitor in City law firm" and an MP. Of course, you'd need to reduce your hours as a solicitor. Lots of MPs have jobs outside parliament - and I believe we should encourage it.

No one should go into politics "for the money." That's bad for politics and bad for the country.

[AndrewJB]

No
Individually there are bound to be some far cleverer.
I think modern teaching methods aren't as good as in my youth. We learnt things by rote, but you had to learn them, because it all came back to bite you in end of term exams.
Going off my children's time at school, and it may have changed since, part learning, part course work, was just an excuse to plagiarise a text book, and nothing sank in.
My children are always asking me how I know so much, and it's simply because I learnt so much at school.
There have always been over and under achievers, then and now, but I shake my head at some of the idiots I've had to work with in the last 15 years. They are far less educated than the under achievers of 45 years ago.
I also think there is a lack of discipline in modern schooling, echoing the lack of discipline in the modern society. It doesn't help.

What is the difference between learning by rote and plagiarising a text book?

[huw.Y.WattfromWare]

When you pay MPs less than a newly qualified solicitor in a City law firm is it any wonder that the most able shun politics?

And yet so many of todays MPs are professional politicians that have gone to college to study politics, diplomacy, economics,etc., They know it is a pathway to so much more. Even failed politicos are given cushy numbers on fabulous salaries.

[SalisburyClaret]

Probably about the same. The main difference is the way the exams have been dumbed down, a degree these days is the equivalent of an old A level etc. In the good old days, we just had to concentrate on our exam subjects, the opposite sex and football. Teenagers now are exposed to a much wider range of issues. The teacher standards are much poorer now as well as the teachers have less time to teach.

And as for all these degrees in nail clipping, flower arranging etc...

[Rileybobs]

I may be a little older than you, Rb. I'm already watching my grandchildren grow up.

You raise an interesting point: are "less smart people going into politics?" What is it that is keeping the "smart people" away from politics, if this is the case? And, why does the electorate vote for the "less smart" ones? If that is the case, what does that say about the intelligence of the "youth of today?"

Yes you’re older than me, I’m in my mid-30’s but I feel that today’s ‘youth’ get a very tough time from many of the older generation. I find today’s youth to be generally better people than when I was of that age.

In terms of intelligence, it’s a tough on to measure. But I would suggest that it’s likely that today’s children are more intelligent as a whole than your generation. They may have totally different life skills, but as one of the posters above who mentioned the use of trigonometry as an example - a lot of things that you, and indeed I were taught, were useless ‘real world skills’. We are in the age of technology so that’s how our children should be taught.

I don’t know for sure that less smart people are going into politics. But if I was smart enough to become an MP and be smeared by the press whilst being paid less than I could earn doing a different job I wouldn’t even consider it. There’s no honour in politics any more so I don’t see it as a particularly aspirational career.

As for young people voting for the ‘less smart’ politicians, I don’t think this is relevant to the thread which is about children, who are not of voting age.

Sorry for the long post. A lot of points to address.