A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

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aggi
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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by aggi » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:13 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:38 pm
The same people complaining about upholding laws seem perfectly happy for ILLEGAL immigrants to keep coming over our borders when they should of claimed asylum in the first country they entered.
You have just made that up though so it isn't really comparable.

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by AndrewJB » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:30 pm

The rule of law was a significant principle for Thatcher. She said governments overstepping this were on their way to tyranny. We’re she alive today I highly doubt she’d be condoning the actions of the government, but rather asking Johnson why, if he wasn’t happy with the agreement, did he sign it in the first place?

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:53 pm

AndrewJB wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:30 pm
The rule of law was a significant principle for Thatcher. She said governments overstepping this were on their way to tyranny. We’re she alive today I highly doubt she’d be condoning the actions of the government, but rather asking Johnson why, if he wasn’t happy with the agreement, did he sign it in the first place?
What if he was happy with it at the time of signing but not now if some circumstances have changed?

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by martin_p » Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:01 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:53 pm
What if he was happy with it at the time of signing but not now if some circumstances have changed?
She’d ask to renegotiate it and get it what she considered ‘right’ and not set unnecessary deadlines.

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by mdd2 » Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:27 pm

Grumps wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:57 pm
the admissions, the infections are not resulting in illness.
I think you spoke too soon-check out the data from Birmingham
One would have to be an eternal optimist to think cases would rise in the community without spreading to the vulnerable and eventually resulting in a
rise in admissions to hospitals eventually. Now that admissions are rising there will be an increase in deaths despite the fact that we are better at treating the severe cases now due to dexamethasone and earlier turning and treating face down (so called proning).
We need to heed the advise we have had from the outset, SD, hand washing, isolate and get a test if you become unwell with symptoms of Covid-19 plus where SD a problem avoid it or if it is not possible wear a mask, but please wear it properly, under the chin or below the nostrils just covering your north and south is not much use.

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by aggi » Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:37 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:12 pm
Major countries break international law all the time. I despair of the guff being spouted by people who should know better, like Theresa May (who caused this problem) and others.

Example - it is international law for prosecution of cross border bribery cases. The UK and USA have highly active enforcement. Japan, Spain, Ireland, Denmark, Belgium and others - not a single prosecution. Does that make them international pariahs? If they don’t prosecute, organised crime could go widespread in another country, costing lives. This thing is just about the people of Northern Ireland and ensuring they aren’t left high and dry.

As with many other things in this era of madness, criticism is fine and dandy but please don’t portray yourself as beyond reproach (e.g. Irish Taioseach in this example).
Japan, although historically weak on cross border anti-bribery, have certainly prosecuted some cases. They're also restructuring to increase enforcement. I don't know about prosecutions in Ireland but I know they also updated their legislation a year or so ago.

The equivalent would be passing new legislation saying they're not going to enforce.

If the withdrawal agreement was going to leave the people of Northern Ireland high and dry then the people who should be getting the blame for that are this government who agreed it (and tried to stop anyone reviewing it).

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by Grumps » Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:42 pm

mdd2 wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:27 pm
I think you spoke too soon-check out the data from Birmingham
One would have to be an eternal optimist to think cases would rise in the community without spreading to the vulnerable and eventually resulting in a
rise in admissions to hospitals eventually. Now that admissions are rising there will be an increase in deaths despite the fact that we are better at treating the severe cases now due to dexamethasone and earlier turning and treating face down (so called proning).
We need to heed the advise we have had from the outset, SD, hand washing, isolate and get a test if you become unwell with symptoms of Covid-19 plus where SD a problem avoid it or if it is not possible wear a mask, but please wear it properly, under the chin or below the nostrils just covering your north and south is not much use.
On the 6th Sept, when I wrote it, it was 100% correct. I didn't state any opinion, or predict what would or wouldn't happen in the future.
Another fact, without commenting, is that 3 less deaths reported today than last Friday.
Last edited by Grumps on Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by mdd2 » Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:50 pm

But therein lies the problem ; the thoughts that the disease may be behaving differently especially with the data that came from Leicester.
And Grumps although only in one area I did point out (September 7th) that there was some evidence of an increase in admissions here and it was clear by the time of your assertion about UK data that things would start to go wrong as we were seeing what was happening in France.
Fortunately we are starting to take additional measures to try and nip the rise in admissions (and deaths) in the bud although by next week or early October I fear the news will not be good as the effects of our collective errant behaviour has yet to percolate through.

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by RingoMcCartney » Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:54 pm

martin_p wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:39 pm
Go on then, explain to me why the sovereignty of parliament means we won’t break international law.

There’s an argument being made that it’s not illegal to discuss the legislation required but even the government admit once the legislation is carried through into UK law it will break international law. So come on Wrongo, tell me why the government if wrong.
I didn't say it wouldn't break international law! :lol:

I said -

Remoaners / The Left 2019 -

"This isn't about frustrating Brexit, it's about the sovereignty of parliament. Isn't that what brexiteers told us this was all about!?" Hahaha....


Remoaners / The Left- 2020

"How very dare parliament use sovereignty to do what's best for Britain and prioritise British interests!?" Grrrrrrr .......

Remoaners / The Left- 2020

"This will permanently damage out international reputation"

The Silent minority

"We seemed to manage get over Labour's illegal war resulting in the death of millions of innocent Iraqi men, women and children, pretty quick"

Hopefully , you can actually read what I said the second time around ! :lol:

So I'll ask you a question based on what I actually said. How long did it take Britain to rebuild its international reputation following Labour's illegal invasion of Iraq . Which resulted in the deaths of millions of innocent iraqi men , women and children? How long Marty?

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by RingoMcCartney » Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:02 pm

Tall Paul wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:38 pm
I thought we were out of the EU already.
Lol Tall Paul.

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by Damo » Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:15 pm

NoBoDy WiLl WaNt To Do A fReE TrAdE DeAl WiTh Us

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by Spijed » Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:28 pm

Damo wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:15 pm
NoBoDy WiLl WaNt To Do A fReE TrAdE DeAl WiTh Us
Of course they will. It's just that we won't be able to do better than if we were in the EU.

A blind man on a galloping horse can see that.

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by FactualFrank » Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:53 pm

BREAKING: International Law

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by Quickenthetempo » Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:03 pm

Spijed wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:28 pm
Of course they will. It's just that we won't be able to do better than if we were in the EU.

A blind man on a galloping horse can see that.
Who knows?

Maybe we can take the best the EU has to offer at a slight increase in price on WTO terms?
Produce other stuff here and maybe get the other countries to trade with us at a far less cost?

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by Damo » Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:33 pm

A couple of weeks ago, a deal with Japan was out of the question.
Now the deal with Japan that was out of the question is not as good as the deal that the EU have negotiated with them.
Excuse me for taking anything remainers say with an enormous pich of salt haha

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by clarethomer » Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:02 pm

Damo wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:33 pm
A couple of weeks ago, a deal with Japan was out of the question.
Now the deal with Japan that was out of the question is not as good as the deal that the EU have negotiated with them.
Excuse me for taking anything remainers say with an enormous pich of salt haha
Interestingly it is also being suggested it was signed with the knowledge of the internal market bill discussions.

I can't see that being true as no country would want to deal with us if we act like we do...

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by CombatClaret » Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:09 pm

Damo wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:33 pm
A couple of weeks ago, a deal with Japan was out of the question.
Now the deal with Japan that was out of the question is not as good as the deal that the EU have negotiated with them.
Excuse me for taking anything remainers say with an enormous pich of salt haha
Where were people saying it was out of the question two weeks ago?
Searched "Japan" on this forum and can't find anything of this kind.

Can't find much on twitter from two weeks ago claiming there wouldn't be a deal, only people pointing out it won't be as good as the EU deal we had with Japan.
Seach using "japan uk deal until:2020-08-28 since:2020-08-20"

In the press two weeks ago it was being reported as close to completion.
https://www.cityam.com/uk-japan-trade-d ... next-week/

Care to furnish us with the evidence of the hordes of remainders saying there wouldn't be a deal two weeks ago. On here or anywhere?

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by CombatClaret » Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:15 pm

clarethomer wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:02 pm
Interestingly it is also being suggested it was signed with the knowledge of the internal market bill discussions.
Link?

Edit: Oh I see, yes you could say the news has broken after news of the internal market bill. I'd be interest to see it negotiated with knowledge of the internal market bill.

Also "we managed to reach an agreement in principle" with Japan, that isn't the same as signed. We had much more than an agreement in principal with the EU, we had a legally binding agreement, which we're looking to break.

Friday's deal still needs approval by Japan's parliament, which the country's Foreign Minister Toshimitsu Motegi forecast would be passed by January.

I wonder if anyone will raise our new record on treaty agreements in the Japanese parliment.
Last edited by CombatClaret on Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by clarethomer » Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:18 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54116606

It states

Friday's deal still needs approval by Japan's parliament, which the country's Foreign Minister Toshimitsu Motegi forecast would be passed by January.

Maybe we could see some U turn with Japan's parliament?? Ohh the suspense and excitement...

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by Gordaleman » Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:32 pm

clarethomer wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:18 pm
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54116606

It states

Friday's deal still needs approval by Japan's parliament, which the country's Foreign Minister Toshimitsu Motegi forecast would be passed by January.

Maybe we could see some U turn with Japan's parliament?? Ohh the suspense and excitement...
Would YOU sign an agreement with a country that has just broken an agreement only six months after it was signed? I wouldn't. What's the point of an agreement?

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by Damo » Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:42 pm

CombatClaret wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:09 pm
Where were people saying it was out of the question two weeks ago?
Searched "Japan" on this forum and can't find anything of this kind.

Can't find much on twitter from two weeks ago claiming there wouldn't be a deal, only people pointing out it won't be as good as the EU deal we had with Japan.
Seach using "japan uk deal until:2020-08-28 since:2020-08-20"

In the press two weeks ago it was being reported as close to completion.
https://www.cityam.com/uk-japan-trade-d ... next-week/

Care to furnish us with the evidence of the hordes of remainders saying there wouldn't be a deal two weeks ago. On here or anywhere?
No, I don't care to do your Internet searches on a Friday night pal.
Can imagine how many people frantically reached for the delete button the moment it was announced anyway

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by Damo » Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:44 pm

Gordaleman wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:32 pm
Would YOU sign an agreement with a country that has just broken an agreement only six months after it was signed? I wouldn't. What's the point of an agreement?
Can imagine the despair now in all quarters of the UK, at the thought of Gordaleman from the Internet rufusing to sell his stuff to the British government

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by Gordaleman » Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:48 pm

Damo wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:44 pm
Can imagine the despair now in all quarters of the UK, at the thought of Gordaleman from the Internet rufusing to sell his stuff to the British government
You can laugh, but a lot of countries will now think twice about signing deals with a country that doesn't abide by agreements.

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:58 pm

CombatClaret wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:09 pm
Where were people saying it was out of the question two weeks ago?
Searched "Japan" on this forum and can't find anything of this kind.

Can't find much on twitter from two weeks ago claiming there wouldn't be a deal, only people pointing out it won't be as good as the EU deal we had with Japan.
Seach using "japan uk deal until:2020-08-28 since:2020-08-20"

In the press two weeks ago it was being reported as close to completion.
https://www.cityam.com/uk-japan-trade-d ... next-week/

Care to furnish us with the evidence of the hordes of remainders saying there wouldn't be a deal two weeks ago. On here or anywhere?

https://twitter.com/RockboltG/status/13 ... 95110?s=19

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:01 pm

Gordaleman wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:48 pm
You can laugh, but a lot of countries will now think twice about signing deals with a country that doesn't abide by agreements.
We haven't broken any agreements as yet.
We've noticed that the agreement we previously agreed to isn't suitable for us, or being adhered to by the EU.

We therefore wish to alter/end this agreement.

All looks perfectly normal thus far.

It's how we get out of it that needs to be monitored, but so long as it can be proven to be legally done in the eyes of the world then its fine.

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by Gordaleman » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:04 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:01 pm
We haven't broken any agreements as yet.
We've noticed that the agreement we previously agreed to isn't suitable for us, or being adhered to by the EU.

We therefore wish to alter/end this agreement.

All looks perfectly normal thus far.

It's how we get out of it that needs to be monitored, but so long as it can be proven to be legally done in the eyes of the world then its fine.
Well, you can believe that if you want, but a lot of very senior Tories are very upset about Boris's (Or should I say Cummings?) cavalier attitude to the rule of law.

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by Damo » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:04 pm

Gordaleman wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:48 pm
You can laugh, but a lot of countries will now think twice about signing deals with a country that doesn't abide by agreements.
The worlds 3rd largest economy just signed one with us today :lol:

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:08 pm

Gordaleman wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:04 pm
Well, you can believe that if you want, but a lot of very senior Tories are very upset about Boris's (Or should I say Cummings?) cavalier attitude to the rule of law.
Honestly couldn't give a toss what senior tories think if we do things legally.
Japan have signed a trade deal with us, despite what's going on.

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by Siddo » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:11 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:38 pm
The same people complaining about upholding laws seem perfectly happy for ILLEGAL immigrants to keep coming over our borders when they should of claimed asylum in the first country they entered.
Having done extensive research on the subject, I can confirm that only leavers and Covid deniers say "would of".
This lack of basic English knowledge does make me wonder how these people understand international law but can't converse or communicate in their mother tongue.
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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:12 pm

Still the wise neutral then eh Sid.
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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by Devils_Advocate » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:13 pm

Your link supports the view tht plenty of people were suggesting we would not get a deal with Japan as good as the one we have as part of the EU and that Japan arent gonna be jumping at the chance to get a deal with us on our terms

Your link does not demonstrate that people thought the possibility was out of the question like Damo said. (im sure the odd fruitcake thought it to be true but on Twitter you can find a section of fruitcakes supporting pretty much every position on anything)

Basically Domo was talking absolute nonsense like he was a few days ago when he was harping on about the Gina Miller court case outcome backing up the absolute rubbish excuse for the truth the AG put out in her statement

Damo's having a bad week but for you its just par for the course

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by Gordaleman » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:13 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:08 pm
Honestly couldn't give a toss what senior tories think if we do things legally.
Japan have signed a trade deal with us, despite what's going on.
Yes, one that still needs to be ratified, and may not be if we carry on the same way.

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by Gordaleman » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:15 pm

Damo wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:04 pm
The worlds 3rd largest economy just signed one with us today :lol:
Yes, one that still needs to be ratified by their parliament, and may not be if we carry on the same way.

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:17 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:13 pm
Your link supports the view tht plenty of people were suggesting we would not get a deal with Japan as good as the one we have as part of the EU and that Japan arent gonna be jumping at the chance to get a deal with us on our terms

Your link does not demonstrate that people thought the possibility was out of the question like Damo said. (im sure the odd fruitcake thought it to be true but on Twitter you can find a section of fruitcakes supporting pretty much every position on anything)

Basically Domo was talking absolute nonsense like he was a few days ago when he was harping on about the Gina Miller court case outcome backing up the absolute rubbish excuse for the truth the AG put out in her statement

Damo's having a bad week but for you its just par for the course
The selection on there has views supporting both the idea that we wouldn't get a deal or it wouldn't be as good as the EU one.

Of course other comments could be found from over a period of time stating a deal wouldn't happen, because twitter is good like that.

As for it being par for the course, not sure why you're throwing that at me, I just gave a link.

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by Devils_Advocate » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:21 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:17 pm
The selection on there has views supporting both the idea that we wouldn't get a deal or it wouldn't be as good as the EU one.

Of course other comments could be found from over a period of time stating a deal wouldn't happen, because twitter is good like that.

As for it being par for the course, not sure why you're throwing that at me, I just gave a link.
Which of the 4 tweets are you saying claim a trade deal with Japan will not happen?

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by CombatClaret » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:32 pm

Jan 24th, Feb 18th. These are not from two weeks ago as Damo suggests and none of the four examples say there won't there won't be a deal. Either it's reporting on the progress or stating it won't be as good as the EU deal we had.

Damo claimed two weeks ago 'Remainers' said the Japan deal wouldn't happen so therefor they shouldn't be listened to. I've tried to search for evidence of this and couldn't find any. It's being ok for him to post these claims on a Friday evening but he refuses to provide evidence for the same reason of it being Friday evening, so I'm going to assume it's BS he made up to suit his narrative.

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by CombatClaret » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:48 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:13 pm
Your link does not demonstrate that people thought the possibility was out of the question like Damo said. (im sure the odd fruitcake thought it to be true but on Twitter you can find a section of fruitcakes supporting pretty much every position on anything)

Damo's having a bad week but for you its just par for the course
I searched "Japan UK Deal", (those three words in any order, anywhere, in any tweet) on Twitter between August 25th - 30th (a window you'd call two weeks ago) and there are around 150 and none suggest there won't be a trade deal. No one on here said anything to that effect and none of the press, who were two weeks ago saying the deal was imminent.

Turns outs the real fruitcake is Damo. But yeah don't listen to those remainers :lol:

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by Damo » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:58 pm

CombatClaret wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:48 pm
I searched "Japan UK Deal", (those three words in any order, anywhere, in any tweet) on Twitter between August 25th - 30th (a window you'd call two weeks ago) and there are around 150 and none suggest there won't be a trade deal. No one on here said anything to that effect and none of the press, who were two weeks ago saying the deal was imminent.

Turns outs the real fruitcake is Damo. But yeah don't listen to those remainers :lol:
Maybe the mistake you are making is that you are specifically searching for the term "Japan"
Again, I'm not going to do your research for you, but I'm fairly sure there were people on here, and twitter, as recent as yesterday saying nobody would be willing to agree a trade agreement with the uk

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by CombatClaret » Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:09 pm

Damo wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:58 pm
Maybe the mistake you are making is that you are specifically searching for the term "Japan"
Again, I'm not going to do your research for you, but I'm fairly sure there were people on here, and twitter, as recent as yesterday saying nobody would be willing to agree a trade agreement with the uk
So two weeks ago there were remainers on twitter saying the UK will not sign a trade deal with Japan (your claim), without using the word Japan..?
How did you find them? how did you know they were remainers (are they public figures or did you check their history)? How do you know they were referring to the Japan deal if they didn't use the word Japan?

I'm not asking you to do research for me, I'm asking you to back up a claim you made and you haven't, would you like to provide ANY evidence at all?

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by clarethomer » Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:12 pm

CombatClaret wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:15 pm
Link?

Edit: Oh I see, yes you could say the news has broken after news of the internal market bill. I'd be interest to see it negotiated with knowledge of the internal market bill.

Also "we managed to reach an agreement in principle" with Japan, that isn't the same as signed. We had much more than an agreement in principal with the EU, we had a legally binding agreement, which we're looking to break.

Friday's deal still needs approval by Japan's parliament, which the country's Foreign Minister Toshimitsu Motegi forecast would be passed by January.

I wonder if anyone will raise our new record on treaty agreements in the Japanese parliment.
Some positive talk from the Japan side of the table..

UK strikes ‘historic’ trade deal with Japan
Agreement with Tokyo comes at pivotal moment as talks with EU hang in balance

The UK has struck its first big post-Brexit trade deal after reaching a historic agreement with Japan that is expected to increase trade by £15bn a year.

The deal was reached after a compromise on agriculture under which the UK will have access to export quotas for cheese and other products that have not been used by the EU, said negotiators.

The agreement with Tokyo comes at a crucial moment for Prime Minister Boris Johnson as his move to unpick parts of the Brexit withdrawal treaty risks the collapse of trade talks with Brussels.

Parallel trade talks with Donald Trump’s US administration have stalled — to the disappointment of Brexiters — with the UK reluctant to give untrammelled access to US agrifoods.

Toshimitsu Motegi, the Japanese foreign minister, and UK trade secretary Liz Truss confirmed their agreement in principle to the new deal via a teleconference on Friday morning London time. The agreement is expected to be finalised in October.

The UK has struck its first big post-Brexit trade deal after reaching a historic agreement with Japan that is expected to increase trade by £15bn a year.

The deal was reached after a compromise on agriculture under which the UK will have access to export quotas for cheese and other products that have not been used by the EU, said negotiators.

The agreement with Tokyo comes at a crucial moment for Prime Minister Boris Johnson as his move to unpick parts of the Brexit withdrawal treaty risks the collapse of trade talks with Brussels.

Parallel trade talks with Donald Trump’s US administration have stalled — to the disappointment of Brexiters — with the UK reluctant to give untrammelled access to US agrifoods.

Toshimitsu Motegi, the Japanese foreign minister, and UK trade secretary Liz Truss confirmed their agreement in principle to the new deal via a teleconference on Friday morning London time. The agreement is expected to be finalised in October.

“This is a historic moment for the UK and Japan as our first major post-Brexit trade deal. The agreement we have negotiated — in record time and in challenging circumstances — goes far beyond the existing EU deal,” said Ms Truss.

“Strategically, the deal is an important step towards joining the Trans-Pacific Partnership and placing Britain at the centre of a network of modern free trade agreements with like-minded friends and allies.” The TPP is a sprawling multinational trade pact.

Alexander Stafford, a Tory MP, described the deal as “amazing” and said: “Brexit bonanza here we come.”

Yet officials confirmed that the deal was expected to add a mere 0.07 per cent to UK gross domestic product. By contrast, government economists have forecast a 5 per cent loss of GDP from leaving the EU customs union and single market.

The UK government said on Friday that the deal would yield a £15bn increase in UK-Japan trade but was unable to give a timeframe on this estimate.

Japanese officials also highlighted the importance of the deal as a bridge to the UK joining the TPP, which includes Japan, Australia, Peru, Malaysia, Vietnam, New Zealand, Chile, Singapore, Canada, Mexico and Brunei.

The deal replicates most of the existing agreement between Japan and the EU, but adds new digital provisions such as a ban on data localisation. That will allow British financial services companies and Japanese game makers such as Sony to operate from offshore servers.

London hailed the deal’s liberal rules of origin for biscuits and knitwear; new “geographical indications” for Wensleydale cheese and Welsh lamb; and more generous market access for its malt producers.

Tokyo said that UK tariffs on automobile and railway parts would fall faster than they would have done under the existing EU deal, creating new opportunities for its exporters. UK tariffs on electronic control units for automobiles will fall to zero as soon as the agreement takes effect.

“This maintains the benefits to Japan under the existing EU-Japan agreement and ensures continuity for Japanese business,” Mr Motegi told reporters.

One of the biggest sticking points was so-called tariff rate quotas in agriculture, which let European farmers export a limited amount of sensitive foodstuffs to Japan at a lower tariff.

Tokyo refused to give the UK any new quota, but for 10 out of 25 products covered in the EU-Japan deal — including cheese, tea extracts and bread mixes — the UK will be able to use any quota left over by the EU.

For example, if the EU uses only 19,000 tonnes of its 20,000 tonne quota for low-tariff cheese exports, the UK will be able to use the remaining 1,000 tonnes. Asked whether that meant the UK could end up empty-handed, one official said: “There is headroom in these quotas.”

Carolyn Fairbairn, director-general of the CBI business group, hailed the signing of the deal as a “breakthrough moment”.

“Business will help support the government in its efforts to secure more trade deals around the world and promote their benefits to communities,” she said. “The Japan deal can be the first of many.”

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by CombatClaret » Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:16 pm

clarethomer wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:12 pm
Some positive talk from the Japan side of the table..
I've read that article and for god sake just post a link man.

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by clarethomer » Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:17 pm

CombatClaret wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:16 pm
I've read that article and for god sake just post a link man.
People tend to say they can't read the FT when I have done in the past.

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by Quickenthetempo » Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:18 pm

Siddo wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:11 pm
Having done extensive research on the subject, I can confirm that only leavers and Covid deniers say "would of".
This lack of basic English knowledge does make me wonder how these people understand international law but can't converse or communicate in their mother tongue.
How would you describe a poster who makes fun of another, using wrong words, but makes his point using completely wrong words?

I wrote 'should', you mistakenly mocked 'would'.
This user liked this post: Damo

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by CombatClaret » Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:20 pm

clarethomer wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:17 pm
People tend to say they can't read the FT when I have done in the past.
Fair enough.
That one was not paywalled.

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by Devils_Advocate » Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:21 pm

Ive read (albeit only off a couple of sources so Im treating it as unconfirmed) that the equivalent value of our deal as part of the EU was £50b so we have managed to negotiate a 70% reduction by going it alone

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by martin_p » Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:28 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:18 pm
How would you describe a poster who makes fun of another, using wrong words, but makes his point using completely wrong words?

I wrote 'should', you mistakenly mocked 'would'.
No, he’s mocking the word ‘of’.

Dear me!

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by clarethomer » Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:32 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:21 pm
Ive read (albeit only off a couple of sources so Im treating it as unconfirmed) that the equivalent value of our deal as part of the EU was £50b so we have managed to negotiate a 70% reduction by going it alone
Be interesting to see how that has been calculated..

Given high level similarities and differences to the deals - would really surprise me that our deal has created a £50bn loss compared to what we would have got had we remained in the EU.

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by CrosspoolClarets » Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:36 pm

aggi wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:37 pm
Japan, although historically weak on cross border anti-bribery, have certainly prosecuted some cases. They're also restructuring to increase enforcement. I don't know about prosecutions in Ireland but I know they also updated their legislation a year or so ago.

The equivalent would be passing new legislation saying they're not going to enforce.

If the withdrawal agreement was going to leave the people of Northern Ireland high and dry then the people who should be getting the blame for that are this government who agreed it (and tried to stop anyone reviewing it).
Re your last sentence, I agree, I said at the time it was a handcuff in deal disguise. Sadly my suspicion is that they felt the Remain opposition in the media and in Parliament (even after winning a majority) meant they had to be seen to be avoiding no deal, and they may have intended to break the agreement all along (that is charitable if immoral, there is a chance they and their civil servants got blindsided by it).

Re the legal example, my information is a few years old so some may have got their act together, but the point remains valid that breaches of international law happen all the time. Doesn’t make it right of course, just not unique in a major country.

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by Devils_Advocate » Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:36 pm

clarethomer wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:32 pm
Be interesting to see how that has been calculated..

Given high level similarities and differences to the deals - would really surprise me that our deal has created a £50bn loss compared to what we would have got had we remained in the EU.
Im interested too and Ive not seen any breakdown so im not convinced but the claim is that our deal in the EU was worth £5b per year for the next ten years and our newly agreed deal is worth £1.5b per year over the next 10 years

Over the coming weeks plenty of experts will get a chance to study it so im sure we wont have to wait long for a more detailed and reliable figure

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Re: A Levels, Covid, Brexit. Worst Government Ever?

Post by Damo » Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:41 pm

CombatClaret wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:09 pm
So two weeks ago there were remainers on twitter saying the UK will not sign a trade deal with Japan (your claim), without using the word Japan..?
How did you find them? how did you know they were remainers (are they public figures or did you check their history)? How do you know they were referring to the Japan deal if they didn't use the word Japan?

I'm not asking you to do research for me, I'm asking you to back up a claim you made and you haven't, would you like to provide ANY evidence at all?
Again, as recently as yesterday, no country would want to do a deal with the UK according to some people.
Thats within your two week window is it not?
Today Japan has agreed to do a deal with the UK Post brexit.
Japan is a country isnt it?
Are you going to do another search, or should we just agree that I'm correct?
Ill pop back on in ten minutes or so and see what you have come up with

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