Is Burnley still in local lockdown?

[NottsClaret]

The problem with 'rules' is that when people can see they're nonsensical or counter productive, they'll ignore them. Or when the people making the rules have scant regard for them. It's not necessarily a bad thing.

All that frenzied tut-tutting at the start, about families living in cramped flats going for a walk in the countryside. Nobody got ill from that. Or going to the beach. Keeping everyone shut up indoors more than likely added to the case numbers, that is afterall where it spreads.

And let's not pretend opening the pubs and restaurants isn't a purely financial necessity for the government. As someone said, the rules are you can meet whoever you like, wherever you like, providing there's a card machine nearby. It's true. That's why having a few beers while you spread a virus is prioritised over a generation's education.

That said, I always wear a mask where I'm supposed to, use the hand sanitiser, avoid public transport etc. I like to think I'm not selfish, just have a reasonable level of doubt around blindly following rules set by morons.

[CharlieinNewMexico]

Correct.

I had to return to work.
Sadly my mortgage and other bill's wouldn't pay themselves, and my family needed feeding.

Maybe I should have tried to fo the whole 12 weeks with no income at all coming into the household.

Well then you’re just like the other 12 million in the world who are toughing it out.

[arise_sir_charge]

And let's not pretend opening the pubs and restaurants isn't a purely financial necessity for the government. As someone said, the rules are you can meet whoever you like, wherever you like, providing there's a card machine nearby. It's true. That's why having a few beers while you spread a virus is prioritised over a generation's education.

Has anyone said that opening pubs and restaurants was anything other than a financial necessity.....it’s not just the Government it benefits it’s each and every single one of us!

Also how do you summise that opening pubs and restaurants has been prioritised over the education of a generation?

[cricketfieldclarets]

Also how do you summise that opening pubs and restaurants has been prioritised over the education of a generation?

I would say the fact they reopened well before schools is enough.

And the eat out schemes the same. If they were bothered about health they would have done a ‘take out’ scheme. So people weren’t gathered in pubs and restaurants en masse. However they’ve done eat out as they want it to LOOK busier. And feel more normal.

Pubs have been absolutely packed since day one.

[mdd2]

You cannot compare pubs with schools where if little Jimmy were to die from Covid and six of his class mates passed the virus to 20% of their families there would be a hue and cry, Government and Boris to blame teacher unions up in arms etc etc. The schools have had to be very cautious to opening up.
Pubs very different and yes if we do not get the service sector moving there isn't going to be enough money for the schools. We have just passed a National Debt of £2 trillion that is a mere £30,769.23pence for every person living in UK if that is 65000000 and my maths is correct.
Borrowing that at a mere 2% interest is £40billion a year in interest payments alone.

[arise_sir_charge]

I would say the fact they reopened well before schools is enough.

And the eat out schemes the same. If they were bothered about health they would have done a ‘take out’ scheme. So people weren’t gathered in pubs and restaurants en masse. However they’ve done eat out as they want it to LOOK busier. And feel more normal.

Pubs have been absolutely packed since day one.

How do you work that out? Pubs shut 3 days before schools did. Schools remained open for key worker children throughout (Pubs were closed) and schools were told to reopen long before pubs.

The eat out scheme is precisely to get people out and get a feel of normality, we cannot stay locked away forever, the consequences of doing so are frightening.

Finally. pubs in Burnley have been packed for 6 weeks, we are currently seeing 18 people in every 100,000 in Burnley infected so pubs being packed hasn't it seems been much of an issue.

[dsr]

I don’t really understand this ‘the rules are inconsistent and stupid logic.’ It’s fairly obvious to me, banning people from meeting in gardens is because those people will end up going inside the house, and the virus spreads more easily indoors than outdoors. And before people argue that isn’t true, one trip in the car around Burnley will prove my point quite firmly.

My point was that going to see your old mother in her garden is not more dangerous than spending the evening in the pub with the world and his wife. I make that point specifically because that's the rule that is illogical.

But if the reason is because they think visiting your old mother one-to-one inside the house is more dangerous than a session in the pub, then I would still say the rule is illogical.

[Grumps]

I would say the fact they reopened well before schools is enough.

And the eat out schemes the same. If they were bothered about health they would have done a ‘take out’ scheme. So people weren’t gathered in pubs and restaurants en masse. However they’ve done eat out as they want it to LOOK busier. And feel more normal.

Pubs have been absolutely packed since day one.

Schools would be shut now normally, it's the holidays.

[1968claret]

Don't hold your breath.....

Exact opposite. If we all keep holding our breath the virus wont spread as quickly

[1968claret]

My point was that going to see your old mother in her garden is not more dangerous than spending the evening in the pub with the world and his wife. I make that point specifically because that's the rule that is illogical.

But if the reason is because they think visiting your old mother one-to-one inside the house is more dangerous than a session in the pub, then I would still say the rule is illogical.

I think the reasoning behind that is that it would be more dangerous for your old mother

[Grumps]

Exact opposite. If we all keep holding our breath the virus wont spread as quickly

But we will all die

[Grumps]

I think the reasoning behind that is that it would be more dangerous for your old mother

The only reason the government have given regarding the restrictions on not going indoors or gardens is that you're more likely to hug someone there than meeting in the park
If you social distance and don't hug, your old mother will be fine.

[cricketfieldclarets]

You cannot compare pubs with schools where if little Jimmy were to die from Covid and six of his class mates passed the virus to 20% of their families there would be a hue and cry, Government and Boris to blame teacher unions up in arms etc etc. The schools have had to be very cautious to opening up.
Pubs very different and yes if we do not get the service sector moving there isn't going to be enough money for the schools. We have just passed a National Debt of £2 trillion that is a mere £30,769.23pence for every person living in UK if that is 65000000 and my maths is correct.
Borrowing that at a mere 2% interest is £40billion a year in interest payments alone.

And if little Johnnys dad catches it at the pub and brings it home and gives it little johnny who cant go to school but can play out with his mates...

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

The only reason the government have given regarding the restrictions on not going indoors or gardens is that you're more likely to hug someone there than meeting in the park
If you social distance and don't hug, your old mother will be fine.

Is the hugging part you’ve made up now government policy!?

[cricketfieldclarets]

Finally. pubs in Burnley have been packed for 6 weeks, we are currently seeing 18 people in every 100,000 in Burnley infected so pubs being packed hasn't it seems been much of an issue.

I dont disagree . So given kids are lower risk and lkely less likely to transmit it mean schools theoretically (hopefuly) shouldnt be an issue.

[Grumps]

Is the hugging part you’ve made up now government policy!?

I haven't made it up, those were the answers given when ministers were asked why you couldn't have visitors in your house, but meet those people in the park
Same answers were given when they were asked why you could have workmen in your home... You don't hug a workman.......

[mdd2]

And if little Johnnys dad catches it at the pub and brings it home and gives it little johnny who cant go to but can play out with his mates...

But alcohol kills the virus don't you know-you only need 60% plus concentration so little Johnny's dad and Civid would be dead.
Good point CFC
Might be 70%

[jrgbfc]

Rumours of Pendle, Oldham and Blackburn heading for a stricter lockdown today....

[Mala591]

The number of positive results per 100,000 population is far too crude a measurement to close down businesses and severely restrict people's lives.

What we need is a new Covid infection risk logarithm which takes into account:

1. No of Covid tests done per 100,000 population.
2. No of positive Covid tests per 100,000 population
3. No of patients admitted to local hospital with severe Covid symptoms

You read it here first.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

According to ITV news Rossendale and Wigan set to have restrictions lifted.

[Grumps]

The number of positive results per 100,000 population is far too crude a measurement to close down businesses and severely restrict people's lives.

What we need is a new Covid infection risk logarithm which takes into account:

1. No of Covid tests done per 100,000 population.
2. No of positive Covid tests per 100,000 population
3. No of patients admitted to local hospital with severe Covid symptoms

You read it here first.

Absolutely agree that the number of positive tests shouldn't be the only thing looked at when implementing restrictions
Blackburn has three testing centres, two of which don't require any symptoms to get tested.
They will be getting more positive tests than a town of similar population who don't have any testing centres, and the only tests are on those people being admitted to hospitals. Yet Blackburn is in lockdown, and in the other town all will be normal, yet if tested the same percentage of people probably have the virus as those in Blackburn have.

[wilks_bfc]

Tighter rules for those of us in Pendle, although in all honesty, I’m not sure what that means we can and can’t do in addition to what people shouldn’t have been doing before


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-53859865

[BigRedrose]

Rumours of Pendle, Oldham and Blackburn heading for a stricter lockdown today....

Build the wall!

[conyoviejo]

Tighter rules for those of us in Pendle, although in all honesty, I’m not sure what that means we can and can’t do in addition to what people shouldn’t have been doing before


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-53859865

Only for certain areas of Pendle.

[wilks_bfc]

Only for certain areas of Pendle.

True, which makes things even more complicated/confusing for people

[conyoviejo]

True, which makes things even more complicated/confusing for people

There are seven wards that have been affected. 6 in Nelson and 1 in Brierfield.. Things are as they were for the rest of Pendle.

[summitclaret]

There are seven wards that have been affected. 6 in Nelson and 1 in Brierfield.. Things are as they were for the rest of Pendle.

And it is now Blackburn without Darwen. Bet Darreners would like that forever.

[Grumps]

And it is now Blackburn without Darwen. Bet Darreners would like that forever.

Not quite, some areas of Blackburn are also being made clear of local restrictions, those close to Darwen

[nil_desperandum]

I don’t really understand this ‘the rules are inconsistent and stupid logic.’ It’s fairly obvious to me, banning people from meeting in gardens is because those people will end up going inside the house,........

Why's that?
My dad's in his 90th year. I've been to his house two or three times a week - even during lockdown, to check up on him, and deliver shopping, medication etc. I haven't been in his house since early March. If the weather's been fair enough he's sat on a bench in the garden, and i've stood talking to him for maybe 10 minutes. Occasionally I've taken a garden chair and sat out with him for longer. Shopping has always been placed by his doorstep.
On wet days he sits just inside the porch and I stand about 3 metres from the door, sometimes under an umbrella.
It's extremely important for his health and well-being that I continue to do so, and I will until I'm stopped.

[MT03ALG]

On which website can I find the number of Coronavirus cases/deaths for the different wards of Pendle Borough ?

[1968claret]

Public Health England website

[dsr]

On which website can I find the number of Coronavirus cases/deaths for the different wards of Pendle Borough ?

Here it is. N_N_N found it on another thread.

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewe ... 6912ed7076

It shows that in the area covered by Colne and villages plus Barlick and Earby, there were 3 cases discovered last week. Perhaps if we can get it down to 2 we might be allowed to stand at the opposite end of a garden and shout to each other again.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Why's that?
My dad's in his 90th year. I've been to his house two or three times a week - even during lockdown, to check up on him, and deliver shopping, medication etc. I haven't been in his house since early March. If the weather's been fair enough he's sat on a bench in the garden, and i've stood talking to him for maybe 10 minutes. Occasionally I've taken a garden chair and sat out with him for longer. Shopping has always been placed by his doorstep.
On wet days he sits just inside the porch and I stand about 3 metres from the door, sometimes under an umbrella.
It's extremely important for his health and well-being that I continue to do so, and I will until I'm stopped.

Rightly so. Good for you.

[Jakubclaret]

Why's that?
My dad's in his 90th year. I've been to his house two or three times a week - even during lockdown, to check up on him, and deliver shopping, medication etc. I haven't been in his house since early March. If the weather's been fair enough he's sat on a bench in the garden, and i've stood talking to him for maybe 10 minutes. Occasionally I've taken a garden chair and sat out with him for longer. Shopping has always been placed by his doorstep.
On wet days he sits just inside the porch and I stand about 3 metres from the door, sometimes under an umbrella.
It's extremely important for his health and well-being that I continue to do so, and I will until I'm stopped.

That might be the case for you & that works without any problems but for some people with elderly relatives with severe poor mobility, if you called round & there's no response you are charging at the door because there could be a possibility of finding them at the bottom of the staircase after a nasty fall, certain occasions you need to judge things there & then throwing any plans in advance to the wayside.

[RingoMcCartney]

Why's that?
My dad's in his 90th year. I've been to his house two or three times a week - even during lockdown, to check up on him, and deliver shopping, medication etc. I haven't been in his house since early March. If the weather's been fair enough he's sat on a bench in the garden, and i've stood talking to him for maybe 10 minutes. Occasionally I've taken a garden chair and sat out with him for longer. Shopping has always been placed by his doorstep.
On wet days he sits just inside the porch and I stand about 3 metres from the door, sometimes under an umbrella.
It's extremely important for his health and well-being that I continue to do so, and I will until I'm stopped.

Fair play. Good on you.

[RingoMcCartney]

That might be the case for you & that works without any problems but for some people with elderly relatives with severe poor mobility, if you called round & there's no response you are charging at the door because there could be a possibility of finding them at the bottom of the staircase after a nasty fall, certain occasions you need to judge things there & then throwing any plans in advance to the wayside.

This is true also.

[Jenny55]

The number of positive results per 100,000 population is far too crude a measurement to close down businesses and severely restrict people's lives.

What we need is a new Covid infection risk logarithm which takes into account:

1. No of Covid tests done per 100,000 population.
2. No of positive Covid tests per 100,000 population
3. No of patients admitted to local hospital with severe Covid symptoms

You read it here first.

Good post Mala. We have to be more scientific about it to enable people to understand the level of risk. I know someone who works at Royal Preston Hospital. He said they are no longer seeing people being admitted with severe Covid symptoms.
Now if the rates of infection have been rising in the last 6-8 weeks, why are people not being admitted to hospital with Covid symptoms? The strain of the virus must surely be weakening as the daily death toll is now in single figures. Looking at yesterday, there were more murders in London than Covid deaths in UK. We still need to exercise caution, however we need this country fully functioning again very soon.

[Grumps]

Good post Mala. We have to be more scientific about it to enable people to understand the level of risk. I know someone who works at Royal Preston Hospital. He said they are no longer seeing people being admitted with severe Covid symptoms.
Now if the rates of infection have been rising in the last 6-8 weeks, why are people not being admitted to hospital with Covid symptoms? The strain of the virus must surely be weakening as the daily death toll is now in single figures. Looking at yesterday, there were more murders in London than Covid deaths in UK. We still need to exercise caution, however we need this country fully functioning again very soon.

Agree 100%
What I find strange is that nobody is asking these questions of the government /scientists, neither are the government explaining why, if the deaths and admissions to hospital are down, why these restrictions are still being implemented
I know the reporters on the daily briefing were pretty inept, but they might just have asked the question, then the public might understand things a little better, and be more inclined to follow the new rules if it was shown the reasoning behind it all.

[Jenny55]

Spot on Grumps.

[nil_desperandum]

That might be the case for you & that works without any problems but for some people with elderly relatives with severe poor mobility, if you called round & there's no response you are charging at the door because there could be a possibility of finding them at the bottom of the staircase after a nasty fall, certain occasions you need to judge things there & then throwing any plans in advance to the wayside.

But in that case you or carers (or both) would be going in and out of the house anyway, and it would be entirely within the rules. You're allowed to look after / help the vulnerable.

[tim_noone]

I haven't made it up, those were the answers given when ministers were asked why you couldn't have visitors in your house, but meet those people in the park
Same answers were given when they were asked why you could have workmen in your home... You don't hug a workman.......

Hugging workmen is pretty common....."so I'm told"

[Jakubclaret]

But in that case you or carers (or both) would be going in and out of the house anyway, and it would be entirely within the rules. You're allowed to look after / help the vulnerable.

In them circumstances there would no consideration the door would be coming off it's hinges, the rules are completely barmy anyway & should be replaced with common sense when applicable.

[Inchy]

Good post Mala. We have to be more scientific about it to enable people to understand the level of risk. I know someone who works at Royal Preston Hospital. He said they are no longer seeing people being admitted with severe Covid symptoms.
Now if the rates of infection have been rising in the last 6-8 weeks, why are people not being admitted to hospital with Covid symptoms? The strain of the virus must surely be weakening as the daily death toll is now in single figures. Looking at yesterday, there were more murders in London than Covid deaths in UK. We still need to exercise caution, however we need this country fully functioning again very soon.

I work at Jimmys and LGI in leeds. When Covid first hit we had a lot of people who were very unwell with it. My role is to assess deteriorating patients on the wards, try to stabilise them, and if need be transfer them to ICU. If ICU are short of staff I will also care for the patient in ICU as that's my background.

I transferred a lot of patients to ICU both young and old. Many never left ICU. Many never went to ICU because they were not appropriate for the invasive treatments required (futility), and subsequently died on the ward. It was hard work for 4 weeks but never uncontrollable mainly due to the excellent planning from the management, and the amount of overtime people were doing including myself (there was nothing to do at home).


Then it stopped. Just like that. Not even gradually but completely. Very few covid admissions to hospital. I cant remember the last time I took a covid patient to ICU. Months ago now. I cant remember the last time I even saw someone sick with covid. I have seen a few patient with covid but they are sick with something else

Clearly lock down worked however I expected we would have a surge of admissions post VE day, BLM protests, lock down easing etc, but we haven't. People are testing positive but are not requiring hospital admissions. Personally with no evidence to back this up I believe the virus has mutated.


I think we need to crack on with life but I will follow government advise

[Grumps]

I work at Jimmys and LGI in leeds. When Covid first hit we had a lot of people who were very unwell with it. My role is to assess deteriorating patients on the wards, try to stabilise them, and if need be transfer them to ICU. If ICU are short of staff I will also care for the patient in ICU as that's my background.

I transferred a lot of patients to ICU both young and old. Many never left ICU. Many never went to ICU because they were not appropriate for the invasive treatments required (futility), and subsequently died on the ward. It was hard work for 4 weeks but never uncontrollable mainly due to the excellent planning from the management, and the amount of overtime people were doing including myself (there was nothing to do at home).


Then it stopped. Just like that. Not even gradually but completely. Very few covid admissions to hospital. I cant remember the last time I took a covid patient to ICU. Months ago now. I cant remember the last time I even saw someone sick with covid. I have seen a few patient with covid but they are sick with something else

Clearly lock down worked however I expected we would have a surge of admissions post VE day, BLM protests, lock down easing etc, but we haven't. People are testing positive but are not requiring hospital admissions. Personally with no evidence to back this up I believe the virus has mutated.


I think we need to crack on with life but I will follow government advise

Thanks for that, backs up what us non medical people suspected. Now, who is going to tell the government?

[Inchy]

Il just point out that I’m am not a virologist or epidemiologist. I am a lay person when it comes to this and my opinion is no more right or wrong than the rest of us lay people.


I’m just stating what I’m seeing and what appears to be going on in the rest of the U.K. hospitals

[dsr]

Personally with no evidence to back this up I believe the virus has mutated.


I think we need to crack on with life but I will follow government advise

Not "no evidence". We have statistical evidence. It isn't proof, but there is strong statistical evidence that the virus is nothing like the problem it once was.

If the biologists could confirm this it would be helpful