Supporters Groups back call for full television coverage

[ClaretTony]

From the Evening Standard

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.standa ... html%3famp

"Fans across London have united to protest against the decision not to continue blanket TV coverage of the new Premier League season.

Representatives of fan groups for all six clubs in the capital told Standard Sport the situation needed urgent review and plan to lobby the Premier League, clubs and broadcasters, in conjunction with the Football Supporters’ Association (FSA).

The Premier League announced fixtures for the 2020-21 season on Thursday, with the campaign set to begin behind closed doors on September 12.

The Government hopes a limited number of fans could return from October 1, subject to successful test events.
During Project Restart, all 92 matches were broadcast live but going forward there are no plans to offer free-to-air games or virtual season-tickets, as in Scotland.

The Premier League's existing deals with broadcasters are worth £4.5billion from 2019-22 and it is thought clubs would want more money to screen the extra game, which TV companies are eager to show.

Of the 380 Premier League fixtures in the coming season, 220 will be broadcast live – up from 200 in last term's initial package – leaving supporters unable to watch 160 matches.

Katrina Law, co-chair of the Tottenham Hotspur Supporters' Trust, told Standard Sport: "Watching your team is fundamental to being a fan and we would hope that the Premier League, clubs and broadcasters are moving heaven and earth to make sure that fans can still watch their team next season.

"All matches are broadcast live somewhere in the world," added Law, who was part of a meeting between the top-flight and representatives of the FSA on Wednesday, when the issue was raised. "We can’t be in a situation where season ticket-holders and members in this country, prevented from attending games through no fault of their own, are unable to watch their matches live in their homes."

Laws believes fans could be forced to turn to illegal streams and said supporters would be happy to pay for access.

"A reasonable subscription charge wouldn’t be out of the question," she said. "And perhaps it's an opportunity for the clubs to offer access to their games in membership packages. If the Premier League and TV companies don’t move to make this happen, it will be picked up and offered illegally. The League has a duty to ensure fans are properly catered for and not forced to piracy."

Tom Greatrex, chair of Fulham Supporters' Trust who was also in Wednesday's meeting, said: "It is not acceptable to have a position where games are either behind closed doors or to such a restricted capacity that season ticket holders who would be inside the ground in normal times just are not able to watch those games, either because they can't get in or significantly there are numbers who could be shielding.

"These are still unprecedented times and the mindset of the Premier League that this is somehow back to normal is just fundamentally flawed."

Alan Palmer, chair of the Crystal Palace Supporters' Trust, said: "They need to look at this again, think carefully about it and take the supporters into account. They are the lifeblood of the game. Games on TV are all supporters have to hang onto at the moment with regards to seeing their team live, a few highlights on Match of the Day is not enough.

"We strongly support any moves to put pressure on the authorities to get these games covered, give the supporters something to hang on to for crying out loud."

Sue Watson, chair of West Ham United Independent Supporters Association, warned that the situation could deter supporters from eventually returning to grounds. "I think some people are thinking again for a host of reasons, and this is only going to underline it even further," Watson said.
"It's not just the money, it is the emotional tie and buy-in to your club. I understand it is all a big business nowadays but actually the football supporter also has the buy-in emotionally and it is almost like that has been completely forgotten."

A spokesperson for the Arsenal Supporters' Trust said it was "very concerned" by the situation and added: "These are unprecedented times and until we see the return of all fans we believe that Premier League games should be made available for season ticket holders and fans to watch.

"The AST will continue to make this case to both Arsenal and the Premier League and hope that by the time the season starts that a solution has been identified."

The Chelsea Supporters' Trust said it "stands in unity with the FSA and fellow supporters trusts’ regarding the issue" and warned: "Without the fans, there would be no football."

The Premier League declined to comment but discussions with fan groups are understood to be ongoing."

Excellent, thanks for sharing that.

Kat Law from Spurs has been the lead on this. She contacted me yesterday which led to us (BFC SG) supporting it. There’s no doubt that the big clubs and the London clubs have more clout but have to say there is no one I know who works harder on behalf of supporters than Kat.

[dougcollins]

I've paid in full for my 20-21 season ticket, and the least I would expect is free tv coverage for every home game until I can attend TM in person.

[Grumps]

I've paid in full for my 20-21 season ticket, and the least I would expect is free tv coverage for every home game until I can attend TM in person.

Don't disagree, and I've got 3 fully paid tickets, but do you expect the club to do this for st holders, or sky?

[DCWat]

It’s ludicrous that the fans of the clubs appear to be the last consideration of the TV companies, but it sums up modern football and its reliance on TV money.

Chester obviously raises some very valid concerns and with his knowledge / understanding of football finances, it’d be silly to ignore those concerns.

Ultimately though, the right thing to do during these unprecedented times, is to ensure that season ticket holders and supporters can watch their team.

There must surely be a way to do this that doesn’t set dangerous precedents for the future.

[ClaretTony]

Piece in the Mail

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... ed-UK.html

[Chester Perry]

Piece in the Mail

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... ed-UK.html

I think they have done one everyday in the 5 on the subject - bit of a hobby horse - stopped putting them on th MMT thread after first couple and your starting of this

[ClaretTony]

From Joe Blott, Spirit of Shankly:

Joe Blott, chair of Liverpool supporters union Spirit of Shankly, said: "We're looking at this particularly from the viewpoint of matchgoing fans, many of who have attending for years.

"We all understand why we cannot be in grounds at the moment but to be deprived of watching the match at all makes it worse.

"We're not even suggesting that this should all be for free as the financial challenges facing clubs and the game in general at present are very clear.

"But we feel matchgoing fans should at least have the choice and I know Dave Kelly and the Blue Union are right behind this as well.

"It feels really wrong that during a crisis like this fans don't just have to stay away from the stadiums but are unable to see their team at all in certain games when the ability for them to be able to does exist.

"Scottish Premiership clubs have engineered a deal with Sky Sports where they can stream matches and sell virtual season tickets and we know Football League clubs in England had a similar system in place last season when games resumed after the three-month break.

"The technology is clearly there so this is about will, not ability and that is the issue here.

"There's no reason why it can't be done because it already has been.

"It would really rub salt in the wounds for fans when the new season begins and they're already feeling the loss of not being able to attend matches to know matches they should be attending are being televised right round the world but not in their own country.

"It doesn't matter if it's Liverpool, Everton, Burnley or Brighton - football fans want to see their team at every opportunity.

"There is a way to do that and we are just encouraging the Premier League, the clubs and the television companies to take responsibility and do that."

[Leisure]

I've paid in full for my 20-21 season ticket, and the least I would expect is free tv coverage for every home game until I can attend TM in person.

Hopefully something will be sorted to allow this but would you then still expect ST holders to get a refund for matches which they couldn't attend in person?

[Grumps]

Hopefully something will be sorted to allow this but would you then still expect ST holders to get a refund for matches which they couldn't attend in person?

If sky show the games, yes.

[Leisure]

If sky show the games, yes.

So if they don't show the games, then no???

[ClaretTony]

Deal being done to allow supporters of all 72 Football League clubs to be able to see all their games via streams. Suggestion it will be free to season ticket holders and £10 per game for non season ticket holders.

[Grumps]

So if they don't show the games, then no???

I meant as opposed to the club doing something regarding showing the games, in which case a full refund might not be appropriate
If its like the end of last season, yes I expect a refund for games they don't let me attend

[ClaretTony]

Hopefully something will be sorted to allow this but would you then still expect ST holders to get a refund for matches which they couldn't attend in person?

100% a full refund but there should then be the option of seeing the game at home. If it is televised in terms of selected game then you will have paid for Sky or BT. If not, there should be a service by which you can see the game at some charge.

[clarethomer]

Another story on the subject about no away fans being allowed as clubs focus on home fans with 20-30% attendance being recommended.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... cRKpgKkEsc

[DCWat]

It’s all well and good all of this, and I can see the reasons behind it. At the end of the day though, we’re slowly heading into the seasons where there is concern that the virus will be returning (and potentially at greater levels).

I really hope I’m wrong but I think we are a long way from being out of the woods!!

[wilks_bfc]

Deal being done to allow supporters of all 72 Football League clubs to be able to see all their games via streams. Suggestion it will be free to season ticket holders and £10 per game for non season ticket holders.

I’m assuming that’s all home games and not including away games?

[ClaretTony]

I’m assuming that’s all home games and not including away games?

If that is the deal you would be able to watch the away games via the home team's stream for a tenner I would presume

[stripes]

assuming that would be st Money back for the games if we cannot attend?

ie

my 340 quid st. therefore works out at 17 quid a stream but 'pay on the gate' is a tenner?!

[clarethomer]

I don't think anything has been agreed for the Premier League.

If you get your ST money back - everyone pays the same.

If they do a ST option then they would likely price the PPV accordingly to encourage you to pay your money up front. I.E. a digital season ticket may come 20-30% cheaper than paying for all the games on a PPV basis.

[Grumps]

I’m assuming that’s all home games and not including away games?

Poor deal for season ticket holders if only home games!!

[ClaretTony]

Poor deal for season ticket holders if only home games!!

It’s a free deal for season ticket holders In the FL for home games according to what I’ve read. You couldn’t expect to get a free offering from the other 23 clubs.

[wilks_bfc]

Poor deal for season ticket holders if only home games!!

I would have thought there would have been some refund

[ClaretTony]

I would have thought there would have been some refund

I would assume they would also get a refund on the games they can’t attend on a pro rata but until it’s confirmed we will have to wait for details.

But back to us and no deal if any kind in the Premier League. On average a club will have 22 matches shown and 16 not shown but as we know we will be way behind the average.

[Duffer_]

There are quite a few issues to think through, including the one you raise stripes. Some ST holders wil already have paid for Sky and/or BT, so I assume they will not have to pay twice. We will feature less than most teams in the 220 pre-selected games, meaning we will have to pay more on the 160 PPV games to see our team than fans of other clubs.

That said, I am prepared to accept an imperfect solution to be able to watch our games.

[Eddiebfc]

Given that ST are priced differently depending on which stand and category surely the streaming price should be the same for everyone? At £10 a game with 19 home games it would be cheaper to pay per game rather than ST? Also families with multiple tickets will surely only need one streaming pass? Also there will be plenty of ST holders who will either not bother or watch on alternative streaming services so there should be an opt out choice with full refund? Will get even more complicated when they start letting some ST go to games.

[clarethomer]

It is indeed complicated and its not difficult to see why its going to take clubs, the league and broadcasters to work together.

The £10 fee is what the EFL has/or thought to have agreed - this is the championship and below. The PL are not part of this so I am not sure it's right to be taking what they are doing and applying it to our situation.

[Duffer_]

I think it would be easier to:

1) keep STs out of the equation by refunding them in full;

2) making the 160 games PPV: and

3) when fans are permitted back, albeit at less than capacity, invite ST holders to indicate whether they wish to attend with an option to link attendance with other ST holders (eg all of a family goes, or none). Then allocate seats as best they can on a rota/ballot basis to match demand with availability. Fans then pay based on the tickets they are allocated.

[Grumps]

It’s a free deal for season ticket holders In the FL for home games according to what I’ve read. You couldn’t expect to get a free offering from the other 23 clubs.

But if you've paid up front, it's costing more than the £10 per game for non season ticket holders, is it not?

[ClaretTony]

But if you've paid up front, it's costing more than the £10 per game for non season ticket holders, is it not?

No. As I said previously there would be a pro rata refund for non attendance which in the FL would be 1/23 of the total season ticket cost.

[ClaretTony]

I think it would be easier to:

1) keep STs out of the equation by refunding them in full;

2) making the 160 games PPV: and

3) when fans are permitted back, albeit at less than capacity, invite ST holders to indicate whether they wish to attend with an option to link attendance with other ST holders (eg all of a family goes, or none). Then allocate seats as best they can on a rota/ballot basis to match demand with availability. Fans then pay based on the tickets they are allocated.

This isn’t so much about attendance but just the lack of being able to watch some of the games. So point 3 isn’t relevant to this but will be interesting to see how it’s done with limited access.

[clarethomer]

Point 2 would be interesting to how they divvy up the PPV.

Presume it could be similarly done to project restart?

CT - Apologies for the report - I think my fat fingers must have accidentally pressed it.

[ClaretTony]

Right now the clubs are just refusing to allow those 160 games to be shown - that's what this campaign is all about.

[Duffer_]

CT - Apologies for the report - I think my fat fingers must have accidentally pressed it.

If you accidently reported the post I think you did, then you saved me a job. A puerile attempt at "fishing" at best, inflammatory, provocative and racist at worst.

[clarethomer]

Im not sure what I have done- I was replying to your post on here and it wasn't there and then I got a notification to say a report had been closed. I presumed for some reason rather than hit the reply to you, I have hit report post by accident....

[Duffer_]

Im not sure what I have done- I was replying to your post on here and it wasn't there and then I got a notification to say a report had been closed. I presumed for some reason rather than hit the reply to you, I have hit report post by accident....

I think a post from another poster was deleted mid reply. You didn't miss anything.

[clarethomer]

ahh - thanks for explaining.

[ClaretTony]

If you accidently reported the post I think you did, then you saved me a job. A puerile attempt at "fishing" at best, inflammatory, provocative and racist at worst.

Not that post, he accidentally reported one that was fine. The one removed was embarrassing and did no more than make the poster look like a complete fool. It could have been considered inflammatory, provocative and racist too and if he tries posting anything like that again he will be removed from this board. He tried posting the same thing on another thread too, that was also removed.

[Leisure]

But if you've paid up front, it's costing more than the £10 per game for non season ticket holders, is it not?

Probably not with some St's at Ewood!

[CaptJohn]

Given that ST are priced differently depending on which stand and category surely the streaming price should be the same for everyone? At £10 a game with 19 home games it would be cheaper to pay per game rather than ST? Also families with multiple tickets will surely only need one streaming pass? Also there will be plenty of ST holders who will either not bother or watch on alternative streaming services so there should be an opt out choice with full refund? Will get even more complicated when they start letting some ST go to games.

Quite right. Much cheaper for me to pay a tenner for each home match than a ST plus I can watch from my armchair and also save on the cost of a 150 mile round trip from Chester. My son and I can alternate paying for both home and away games so I'll see the whole lot for less than the cost of a ST. As I said earlier this is a genie that will be difficult to put back in the bottle.

[CaptJohn]

This will accelerate the demise of paying fans. No need for expensive stadiums or Policing or Stewards. Wow this Genie is getting bigger and stronger by the minute.

[ClaretTony]

Quite right. Much cheaper for me to pay a tenner for each home match than a ST plus I can watch from my armchair and also save on the cost of a 150 mile round trip from Chester. My son and I can alternate paying for both home and away games so I'll see the whole lot for less than the cost of a ST. As I said earlier this is a genie that will be difficult to put back in the bottle.

Can’t imagine any supporters who want to attend wouldn’t want to go back should things get back to normal. The genie, as you put it, would be back in the bottle with tv coverage back to how it’s been.

And would you really prefer to watch from your armchair?

[Duffer_]

This will accelerate the demise of paying fans. No need for expensive stadiums or Policing or Stewards. Wow this Genie is getting bigger and stronger by the minute.

...unless fans prefer going to games when things go back to normal. I find it strange that you list the apparent benefits but you are against being able to make the choice.

[CFS]

Quite right. Much cheaper for me to pay a tenner for each home match than a ST plus I can watch from my armchair and also save on the cost of a 150 mile round trip from Chester. My son and I can alternate paying for both home and away games so I'll see the whole lot for less than the cost of a ST. As I said earlier this is a genie that will be difficult to put back in the bottle.

I agree.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Fans will be itching to go back when they’re allowed. Hahahahaha especially if it’s been on tv constantly and we are all still watching.

The problem is if they don’t show all games. Which they will.

[clarethomer]

It's hard to predict the future but I find it hard to see a future without fans in the grounds and I would never want that to stop. There are people who have their matchday experience which revolves around the match day.

As someone who usually drives to the game, watches it and drives home straight after, I also hope though there is the opportunity for people to choose how they watch football in the future so if I ever reached the point, i would rather watch from home, I could. (well I technically could do this now but it's not legal)

The sport has an opportunity to make itself more inclusive and more accessible and if this awful time brings some change to the way broadcasters and leagues sell the rights then so be it.

Given that the EFL are moving in a similar way, they also may help with the argument in terms of that fans have the ability to watch how they prefer.

[CaptJohn]

Can’t imagine any supporters who want to attend wouldn’t want to go back should things get back to normal. The genie, as you put it, would be back in the bottle with tv coverage back to how it’s been.

And would you really prefer to watch from your armchair?

CT, If you'd have asked me that same question before this virus malarky I would have said no. Now I'm not so sure and as I'm 66, and according to some well past it, I do wonder if I'll ever step foot on the Turf again. Certainly not until Covid 19 is well and truly in the past.

[ClaretTony]

CT, If you'd have asked me that same question before this virus malarky I would have said no. Now I'm not so sure and as I'm 66, and according to some well past it, I do wonder if I'll ever step foot on the Turf again. Certainly not until Covid 19 is well and truly in the past.

You’re younger than me

[wilks_bfc]

You’re younger than me

He may be younger than you but he’s also further away which is to be taken into consideration when attending

[ClaretTony]

He may be younger than you but he’s also further away which is to be taken into consideration when attending

It wasn’t meant to be a serious comment, probably should have had a smiley.

[aggi]

Can’t imagine any supporters who want to attend wouldn’t want to go back should things get back to normal. The genie, as you put it, would be back in the bottle with tv coverage back to how it’s been.

And would you really prefer to watch from your armchair?

I imagine there will be loads. Not every week but there's a whole host of reasons why.

Those who have to travel a long distance, games where the weather is terrible, looking after young children, night games, away games, those who just go on the odd game, families for whom the cost is too high, those who can't get tickets (maybe not big for us but big for other teams) etc.

You only have to look at the board and people asking for a stream each match to see that the demand is there. Personally I watch most home games online because otherwise the cost and time involved would be writing off most weekends during the season.

Maybe the genie would go back in the bottle but there are other trends, such as working from home and online shopping, where they are not expecting things to ever return to the pre-lockdown situation, this could be another.

Clubs such as Liverpool and Man Utd would love the chance to start selling rights to their games on a subscription basis.