Pickford in goal for England

KateR · Post by **KateR** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:39 pm

Zlatan wrote: ↑
Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:20 pm
BBC polls for football are a popularity contest for the big clubs - of course Henderson got the vote because he’s a Man Utd player

of course they are, but the point was around Pickford getting 9% of the votes versus Southgate picking himbut it's just a bit of info and influences nothing.

superdimitri · Post by **superdimitri** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:39 pm

SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑
Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:03 pm
His kicking style is deliberately coached By the management and is a key way of how we play - it’s not poor kicking, it’s done deliberately to affect the tempo of the game

His kicking has always been poor. There's a difference between being told to kick close to the line for tactics and just poor accuracy and technique. He would kick poorly in any team including England.

But he knows that and that's why he's started to play it shorter more often. He's also got a decent throw.

Never gonna have a balanced opinion on here with our tinted glasses, we all know Pope is better than Pickford but there's nothing wrong with admitting despite how good he is, that he has weaknesses. There's also nothing wrong stating the obvious; Part of why he's so good for us is the way we play.

Playing 5 at the back and Trips on the left is baffling. I don't get why they don't play Gomez left and Trippier right with Walker in the middle.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:40 pm

Dier playing at CB because that's where he's looking to play for his club this season. Why not let him try it out for England, Gareth, cracking idea.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:41 pm

Siddo wrote: ↑
Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:23 pm
No, just stating my opinion on Pope and trying to give reasons why Southgate is still choosing Pickford over Pope.

Too many on here rave about Pope and I'm not quite sure why.
The stat isn't mine, it was in the Times this week.

I have posted before that when Southgate saw Pope during training he was less than impressed, also in the Times.

I'll quote you another stat.

Premier League most clean sheets 2019/20 season

Nick Pope 15

Dean Henderson 13

Pickford is not even in the top 10.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:42 pm

superdimitri wrote: ↑
Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:39 pm
His kicking has always been poor. There's a difference between being told to kick close to the line for tactics and just poor accuracy and technique. He would kick poorly in any team including England.

But he knows that and that's why he's started to play it shorter more often. He's also got a decent throw.

Never gonna have a balanced opinion on here with our tinted glasses, we all know Pope is better than Pickford but there's nothing wrong with admitting despite how good he is, that he has weaknesses. There's also nothing wrong stating the obvious. Part of why he's so good for us is the way we play.

In many ways I don't think this is about whether Pope is or isn't better than Pickford. It's about a manager telling a player that it doesn't matter how poorly you play for your club on a weekly basis over a sustained period of time, you're in the team. It sends out the wrong message to Pickford and it sends out the wrong message to England's other goalkeepers.

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:45 pm

What a f*ckin joke!

I’m really pi55ed off about this.

Pickford is absolutely terrible. He’s shocking. Week in week out he’s crap.

I feel for Pope. He nearly won the golden gloves with Burnley ffs. Southgate has his favourites clearly.

I hope we get beat 5-0 and Pickford makes 5 shocking errors

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:48 pm

Southgate out, i hope we lose, get rid of the woke waistcoat.

Gordaleman · Post by **Gordaleman** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:49 pm

Trouble is, Iceland's line up is probably even weaker, with a number of their high profile players not available for one reason or another. So if England win, Sarfgate will feel justified in fielding what is one of the strangest England line ups I've ever seen.

As it it it, I'm quickly fashioning a voodoo doll of Pickford, and I'll be sticking pins in it every time Iceland get near our goal.

Lord_Bob · Post by **Lord_Bob** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:49 pm

When Ancelotti drops Pickford, will Southgate still pick him? Wouldn't bet against it.

BenWickes · Post by **BenWickes** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:49 pm

Alex Scott on Sky suggesting Pickford's playing for confidence reasons because Iceland shouldn't cause many problems. She expects Pope to play against Denmark when the pressure is on more. She's obviously forgot the Iceland result a few years back and not seen that defence Southgate picked!

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:50 pm

Guess Pockford won't see much saving action and this game will be more about how we attack.

superdimitri · Post by **superdimitri** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:54 pm

Rileybobs wrote: ↑
Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:42 pm
In many ways I don't think this is about whether Pope is or isn't better than Pickford. It's about a manager telling a player that it doesn't matter how poorly you play for your club on a weekly basis over a sustained period of time, you're in the team. It sends out the wrong message to Pickford and it sends out the wrong message to England's other goalkeepers.

I think it's more Southgate having loyalty to Pickford and despite his bad club form, favoring his quicker distribution. Sometimes you see that in international football. One example I can think of as Italy in the 2012 finals. Prandelli kept picking De Rossi despite his performances, and Roma's performances at club level being poor.

What mattered is that when he played for Italy he played well and Pickford has yet to have a really bad game for England.

It worked for Prandelli and they finished runners up. Whether Southgate will be right or not (I certainly don't have faith in his tactical nous) will depend on how Pickford and the team perform. Not how Pickford performed for Everton or what Anceloti says about him.

Let's see and hope he has a stinker but we still win. A 4-5 result with some calamites will be good. Or perhaps an injury giving Pope a chance.

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:57 pm

Pickford is an arrogant tw@t picking him today will make him worse,he will think he is undropable from the England No1 position...I hope the prick has a stinker!

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:58 pm

superdimitri wrote: ↑
Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:54 pm
I think it's more Southgate having loyalty to Pickford and despite his bad club form, favoring his quicker distribution. Sometimes you see that in international football. One example I can think of as Italy in the 2012 finals. Prandelli kept picking De Rossi despite his performances, and Roma's performances at club level being poor.

What mattered is that when he played for Italy he played well and Pickford has yet to have a really bad game for England.

It worked for Prandelli and they finished runners up. Whether Southgate will be right or not (I certainly don't have faith in his tactical nous) will depend on how Pickford and the team perform. Not how Pickford performed for Everton or what Anceloti says about him.

Let's see and hope he has a stinker but we still win. A 4-5 result with some calamites will be good. Or perhaps an injury giving Pope a chance.

I fully expect Pickford to be untroubled and England to win. But you're not going to get the best out of a group of players when some know that they will play regardless of how poor their club form is whilst others know that they won't play regardless of how good it is.

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:59 pm

Southgate certainly is blinkered in his selections.

KateR · Post by **KateR** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:59 pm

funnily enough I am thinking he is undropable too.

expoultryboy · Post by **expoultryboy** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:01 pm

In my humble opinion Pickford , Dier , Walker and Rice should be no where near the England team . Its good to see Foden playing though .

superdimitri · Post by **superdimitri** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:02 pm

Rileybobs wrote: ↑
Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:58 pm
I fully expect Pickford to be untroubled and England to win. But you're not going to get the best out of a group of players when some know that they will play regardless of how poor their club form is whilst others know that they won't play regardless of how good it is.

That's not true. As I said in my last reply it's not the first time international managers have picked players who under perform at club level and have had success.

It's about finding the right balance. You can't just put in form players together and expect them to play well all the time. If you've followed England for some time you'll know that already from recent eras where we've had much better talent in the team but under performed.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:04 pm

I suppose GS's logic would be that he could really destroy Pickford's confidence, daft though it sounds!
As for the eleven, when you look at the wealth of talent England have that is a p!££ poor team

SparkyClaret · Post by **SparkyClaret** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:07 pm

BenWickes wrote: ↑
Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:49 pm
Alex Scott on Sky suggesting Pickford's playing for confidence reasons because Iceland shouldn't cause many problems. She expects Pope to play against Denmark when the pressure is on more.

I can understand wanting to give him confidence, but can't we do that in an honest to god friendly? I know the nation's league isn't a major tournament, but isnt it meant to ease our way into qualifying for the Euros? I half expected it to be Henderson over Pope, but Christ almighty Pickford is utter ****. He's gonna have no cover from that defence either.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:11 pm

superdimitri wrote: ↑
Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:02 pm
That's not true. As I said in my last reply it's not the first time international managers have picked players who under perform at club level and have had success.

It's about finding the right balance. You can't just put in form players together and expect them to play well all the time. If you've followed England for some time you'll know that already from recent eras where we've had much better talent in the team but under performed.

I understand your point entirely, I just don’t think that it’s applicable in Pickford’s case considering the error-strewn season that he’s just had and the fact that the two keepers challenging for his place have had fantastic seasons.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:23 pm

Siddo wrote: ↑
Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:23 pm
No, just stating my opinion on Pope and trying to give reasons why Southgate is still choosing Pickford over Pope.

Too many on here rave about Pope and I'm not quite sure why.
The stat isn't mine, it was in the Times this week.

I have posted before that when Southgate saw Pope during training he was less than impressed, also in the Times.

So why have him in the squad if he’s less than impressed with him in training? No matter which you look at it, to persevere with Pickford on the back of his form last season really takes some believing.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:27 pm

Anyone remember this...

Southgate: I’ll pick England players on form not reputation

Tarks had a far better season that Dier and Mings. Pope was head and shoulders better than Pickford.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:28 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:34 pm
I got it wrong, I was sure Pope would play but it's Pickford

It’s not you that got it wrong...

Just when you start to believe that things are on the up, and we finally have an England manager that isn’t just the FA’s man....

superdimitri · Post by **superdimitri** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:28 pm

Rileybobs wrote: ↑
Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:11 pm
I understand your point entirely, I just don’t think that it’s applicable in Pickford’s case considering the error-strewn season that he’s just had and the fact that the two keepers challenging for his place have had fantastic seasons.

I wouldn't pick Pickford. Pun intended. But I think that is Southgate's thinking.

Maybe he said to them both they get one game each and see how they perform.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:29 pm

bobinho wrote: ↑
Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:28 pm
It’s not you that got it wrong...

Just when you start to believe that things are on the up, and we finally have an England manager that isn’t just the FA’s man....

I’ve never rated Southgate. He got very lucky with the draw in the World Cup.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:31 pm

England dominating but they're not creating many clear cut openings, Kane's strike should have stood however, and Rice has missed a sitter.

It's hard to judge against this calibre of opposition though, the Denmark game will provide a much stiffer challenge.

Of course tonight's game has to be won first, and for all England's possession it's still scoreless 30 minutes in.

Has Pickford touched the ball yet?

Gordaleman · Post by **Gordaleman** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:32 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:29 pm
I’ve never rated Southgate. He got very lucky with the draw in the World Cup.

I've always said England were over rated. They only played two decent teams, Belgium and Croatia and contrived to lose to them three times.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:32 pm

Weak managers keep their favourites in the side for easy games despite being out of form, so that they can turn around and say “look, he got a clean sheet” etc. We see it regularly.

If Pope’s distribution is so bad that he cannot depose an out of form Pickford, it begs the question why he is in the squad at all?

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:33 pm

superdimitri wrote: ↑
Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:28 pm
I wouldn't pick Pickford. Pun intended. But I think that is Southgate's thinking.

Maybe he said to them both they get one game each and see how they perform.

It’s quite possible to be fair, but I won’t be holding my breath. Obviously there’s a Burnley bias in my opinion, but having backed Southgate to date I find myself feeling that he’s totally abandoned his principles.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:37 pm

tiger76 wrote: ↑
Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:31 pm
England dominating but they're not creating many clear cut openings, Kane's strike should have stood however, and Rice has missed a sitter.

It's hard to judge against this calibre of opposition though, the Denmark game will provide a much stiffer challenge.

Of course tonight's game has to be won first, and for all England's possession it's still scoreless 30 minutes in.

Has Pickford touched the ball yet?

Touched it a few times.

Could do with a goal b4 ht

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:39 pm

claretandy wrote: ↑
Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:48 pm
Southgate out, i hope we lose, get rid of the woke waistcoat.

Big Ron in, presumably?

Firthy · Post by **Firthy** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:43 pm

Don't know which is most disappointing. Pickford in goal or Tarks missing from the squad.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:46 pm

Gordaleman wrote: ↑
Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:32 pm
I've always said England were over rated. They only played two decent teams, Belgium and Croatia and contrived to lose to them three times.

And if they hadn’t lost to Belgium first time round we’d have in all likelihood come home a lot earlier.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:47 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑
Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:32 pm
Weak managers keep their favourites in the side for easy games despite being out of form, so that they can turn around and say “look, he got a clean sheet” etc. We see it regularly.

If Pope’s distribution is so bad that he cannot depose an out of form Pickford, it begs the question why he is in the squad at all?

Because you can't have an international squad with just one goalkeeper?

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:47 pm

Charlie getting a mention on the beeb comments.

Burnley, second most clean sheets in the PL, have a perfectly competent English left-back in Charlie Taylor. With the injury crisis I cannot understand why he hasn't been given a chance.

Tripps has looked lively, but England are starting to run out of ideas.

Loads of the ball, but little to show for it. 0-0 at HT.

MrTopTier · Post by **MrTopTier** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:48 pm

Pickfords in goal against Iceland as there is nothing for him to do. You can’t really mess that up.

Did someone really type a ‘woke’ waistcoat Ha ha.

kritichris · Post by **kritichris** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:49 pm

HT 81% possession, 3 shots on target.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:52 pm

kritichris wrote: ↑
Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:49 pm
HT 81% possession, 3 shots on target.

90% passing accuracy.

Bertiebeehead · Post by **Bertiebeehead** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:53 pm

Turned off, dog dirt.

Noblelight · Post by **Noblelight** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:54 pm

CT totally agree with you. It was great that we got to the semifinals but we did get a lucky draw. Proved by the fact that the only team in our side of the draw that was good enough to beat us did, Belgium and they did it twice

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:54 pm

MrTopTier wrote: ↑
Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:48 pm
Pickfords in goal against Iceland as there is nothing for him to do. You can’t really mess that up.

Did someone really type a ‘woke’ waistcoat Ha ha.

Not just me wondering what a woke waistcoat is then?

Siddo · Post by **Siddo** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:00 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:23 pm
So why have him in the squad if he’s less than impressed with him in training? No matter which you look at it, to persevere with Pickford on the back of his form last season really takes some believing.

The keepers are someone who had a poor season, a young guy with one season in the PL behind him and a keeper he isn't too impressed with. Doesn't fill me full of confidence to be honest.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:02 pm

Really poor, as expected to be honest.
Apart from Pickford, playing Tripps on the left, Dier on the pitch full stop.
The biggest issue is we play like a team of average to good strangers, no team ethic or style, no shape, just XI individuals.
Iceland might be missing a lot of players, but they are organised, and play like a team.
Thats down to management, so down to GS.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:09 pm

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:39 pm
I really thought he was going to play this week and then the national press jumped on it leaving me all but certain. When the team was announced I was ready to post the good news and then Pickford in that line up. The one consolation is there's no Mings but is he really going to play Tripps at left back with Gomez & Dier in the centre of defence?

I'd say Mings is better than the centre halves he has selected.

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:10 pm

Poor game with 2 poor teams. Dier ? Rice ? Trippier at lb ? You gotta be joking

expoultryboy · Post by **expoultryboy** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:11 pm

Took Middlesbrough down and finished bottom of the group with the U21s . Pefect cv for the job .

lakedistrictclaret · Post by **lakedistrictclaret** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:11 pm

It's matches like this that make me wonder whether I'm losing interest in football.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:13 pm

aggi wrote: ↑
Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:09 pm
I'd say Mings is better than the centre halves he has selected.

On reflection, maybe, but it wouldn’t take much.

Taffy on the wing · Post by **Taffy on the wing** » Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:14 pm

Absolute Dross!
The right back for Iceland is doing a good job on Sterling........sign him up.