Extinction Rebellion

[AndrewJB]

"Right winger" , Majid Nawaz on LBC just torn a strip off XR spokesman and wiped the floor with him with facts. A great listen

(Just about heard it from the "rightwing bubble chamber"!)

I wouldn’t trust Major Nawaz to wipe his own arse - let alone any floor. His relationship with facts is casual at best.

[Damo]

Censorship imposed by press barons is as bad as that imposed by despotic governments. Large parts of our press aren’t free.

"Press barons" are free to print whatever they like, and the populous is free to subscribe to that publication, or not. I'd be more concerned (but not surprised in the slightest that you seem in favour) if the press were forced to run the stories that an arbiter decided should be run.
Or if people were forced to subscribe to say, a state run media outlet (the BBC for example) in order to access other outlets.
Its baffling to me, that your version of free involves so much control and enforcement
It reminds me of that "F"word that you hate to say everytime someone posts something you disagree with

[RingoMcCartney]

I wouldn’t trust Major Nawaz to wipe his own arse - let alone any floor. His relationship with facts is casual at best.

Oh I dont know AndrewJB. If push came to shove, I'd put my money on Majid Nawaz having a far less casual relationship with facts, than you do with reality.

[clarethomer]

"Press barons" are free to print whatever they like, and the populous is free to subscribe to that publication, or not. I'd be more concerned (but not surprised in the slightest that you seem in favour) if the press were forced to run the stories that an arbiter decided should be run.
Or if people were forced to subscribe to say, a state run media outlet (the BBC for example) in order to access other outlets.
Its baffling to me, that your version of free involves so much control and enforcement
It reminds me of that "F"word that you hate to say everytime someone posts something you disagree with

Andrew loves his free press debates.

Only 40% of people receive their news by printed press.

BBC is by far the biggest organisation where people get their news.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/ ... n-2018.pdf

[Spijed]

"Press barons" are free to print whatever they like, and the populous is free to subscribe to that publication, or not. I'd be more concerned (but not surprised in the slightest that you seem in favour) if the press were forced to run the stories that an arbiter decided should be run.
Or if people were forced to subscribe to say, a state run media outlet (the BBC for example) in order to access other outlets.
Its baffling to me, that your version of free involves so much control and enforcement
It reminds me of that "F"word that you hate to say everytime someone posts something you disagree with

Isn't the government trying to censor the BBC though, saying it's too left-wing and thinking about making it subscription only?

[clarethomer]

Isn't the government trying to censor the BBC though, saying it's too left-wing and thinking about making it subscription only?

They are not censoring because of the perceived left-wing bias. They are censoring because they are now charging the over 75s a licence fee and the government see the public are frustrated with how the BBC operates.

When you see how they are spending the tax-payers and have tried to push the 'can''t afford it' line blame the government - they essentially went to war with them.

If they are going to receive tax-payers money then there is accountability to the tax payer in representing all political biases fairly.

They don't appear to want that - they want to spend money on

- overpaid stars whos true earnings are hidden through paying them through indpenedent production studios
- commiting £100m to increase diversity on the BBC.

All whilst claiming poverty to ensure the elderly and most vulnerable could be sent to prison if they don't pay for their tv licences.

I have no issue with increasing diversity and I have no issues with paying market rates for producers.. Just do it under your own commercial funding and planning like every other business out there. They have a very profitable commercial arm which makes good profit - why not fund it from there?

[Damo]

Isn't the government trying to censor the BBC though, saying it's too left-wing and thinking about making it subscription only?

I fail to see how making the BBC available to everyone is censoring it?
I actually like the BBC's output. I've said before that I'd subscribe to it if it was optional.
My problem with the BBC is its, pretty much, law enforced subscription

[Spijed]

I fail to see how making the BBC available to everyone is censoring it?
I actually like the BBC's output. I've said before that I'd subscribe to it if it was optional.
My problem with the BBC is its, pretty much, law enforced subscription

How is a subscription service making it available to everyone?

As an example you can subscribe to Sky, but unless you can afford it you ain't watching Premier league football.

Unless the fee is less than that currently charged by having a TV license then it will limit the number of people who can watch it.

[Volvoclaret]

It always tickles me how certain people complain about media bias whilst ignoring the most biased, self entitled bunch of left wing influencers who deliberately push their agenda onto a vulnerable sector of our population. I give you Ladies and Gentlemen....... Teachers and University Lecturers.

[Spijed]

They are not censoring because of the perceived left-wing bias.

But hasn't the debate come about because of so-called left wing bias of Newsnight and the Proms?

[GodIsADeeJay81]

How is a subscription service making it available to everyone?

As an example you can subscribe to Sky, but unless you can afford it you ain't watching Premier league football.

Unless the fee is less than that currently charged by having a TV license then it will limit the number of people who can watch it.

If someone's paying for sky why are they forced to pay for the BBC on top of that?

[Devils_Advocate]

It always tickles me how certain people complain about media bias whilst ignoring the most biased, self entitled bunch of left wing influencers who deliberately push their agenda onto a vulnerable sector of our population. I give you Ladies and Gentlemen....... Teachers and University Lecturers.

To be fair to teachers and lecturers truth, facts and critical thinking is key to institutions that exist in the field of education so a lot of right wing thinking sort of excludes itself

[KateR]

so not much about the subject line at all and all about the media yet again, mmm, same old same old.

[Damo]

How is a subscription service making it available to everyone?

As an example you can subscribe to Sky, but unless you can afford it you ain't watching Premier league football.

Unless the fee is less than that currently charged by having a TV license then it will limit the number of people who can watch it.

The price of the subscription is a different argument. But I get your point
I still fail to see how the government having so much control over the countries biggest media outlet in any way constitutes a free press though?
My argument re rule Britania for example has nothing to do with the song, more the decision (if there was a descision) to not play play it, because I feel something I'm pretty much forced to subscribe to shouldn't have its output dictated by a minority of people with certain views.
If sky decide to make lots of programs with a slant I don't agree with then I'll just stop paying them.
I won't have some sinister, government agents knocking on my door and threatening me with a court appearance if I choose to edit what views and opinions I subscribe to in that scenario

[Damo]

so not much about the subject line at all and all about the media yet again, mmm, same old same old.

Did you miss the OP?

[KateR]

did you miss my opening few words, I'll try again for you "Not much about the subject line"

swiftly after about 5 posts became political and the usual about the effects of the newspapers on the political landscape, so far not one post on the why they did it or whether people agree or not, and certainly not one (I believe) on climate change/global warning. Which, and I'll take a SWAG at this, is the reason it was done, not about left/right. All of course just my opinion

[TheFamilyCat]

so not much about the subject line at all and all about the media yet again, mmm, same old same old.

The thread was on topic until the board's very own Roger Irrelevant diverted it to being about the BBC.

[Pstotto]

There has never been freedom of speech in 'Fleet St' and there never will be.

[Damo]

did you miss my opening few words, I'll try again for you "Not much about the subject line"

swiftly after about 5 posts became political and the usual about the effects of the newspapers on the political landscape, so far not one post on the why they did it or whether people agree or not, and certainly not one (I believe) on climate change/global warning. Which, and I'll take a SWAG at this, is the reason it was done, not about left/right. All of course just my opinion

Ok, I get your point. But I think climate change, its cause and effects and the proposed remedies are a left/right issue.
Right leaning people tend to be in favour of capitalism and left leaning people in favour of communism/socialism imo and climate change seems to be an argument between the two.
Look at, for example, the media outlets Extinction Rebellion tried to censor.

[KateR]

Ok, I get your point. But I think climate change, its cause and effects and the proposed remedies are a left/right issue.
Right leaning people tend to be in favour of capitalism and left leaning people in favour of communism/socialism imo and climate change seems to be an argument between the two.
Look at, for example, the media outlets Extinction Rebellion tried to censor.

In an attempt to make a point, I give you Andrew and I, I don't thinks we are close to agreements regarding politics, Left Centre Right, however, I believe we are in agreement around Global Warming/Climate change, and therefore, while I can accept your comment regarding the argument, I don't think it's as black and white as you make out.

In regard to Ringo, his first post was at number 25 and was responding to many previous posts that had already steered the thread away from XR and on to newspaper/media bias for the right.

[Damo]

In an attempt to make a point, I give you Andrew and I, I don't thinks we are close to agreements regarding politics, Left Centre Right, however, I believe we are in agreement around Global Warming/Climate change, and therefore, while I can accept your comment regarding the argument, I don't think it's as black and white as you make out.

In regard to Ringo, his first post was at number 25 and was responding to many previous posts that had already steered the thread away from XR and on to newspaper/media bias for the right.

I never said it was a black and white issue. Neither is the left and right.
I was explaining why the left and right is being discussed, on a thread about a group of activists trying to shut down a few right of center publications.
I know you and Andrew like to discuss climate change. I'm sure I've seen a few threads about it.
I just find it a bit weird that you only want people to discuss climate change on a thread where climate change is just a small aspect of the conversation

[KateR]

I never said it was a black and white issue. Neither is the left and right.
I was explaining why the left and right is being discussed, on a thread about a group of activists trying to shut down a few right of center publications.
I know you and Andrew like to discuss climate change. I'm sure I've seen a few threads about it.
I just find it a bit weird that you only want people to discuss climate change on a thread where climate change is just a small aspect of the conversation

I will try again, hopefully to make myself clearer:
I don't/didn't want to only discuss climate change
I didn't only want to discuss XR in and of itself.
I definitely didn't want to discuss politics and right/left, plenty of those threads.

What I had hoped to discuss more, were issues around, are XR right to protest, do people support them, is it right/acceptable to move from peaceful protests to protests that include civil disobedience. Should there be tougher laws against protests and the issue of blocking the press gates and how acceptable is it in changing these laws as they need to be appiled against a myriad of subjects. How does XR compare in peoples thoughts to others, such as, but not limited to Abortion/BLM and even if you want Blackburn supporters protesting, plus others.

[evensteadiereddie]

We need a bit of perspective here. The press gates were blocked for a number of hours not to gag the press but to draw attention to the fact that some papers routinely print one-side arguments against the potential perils facing our planet.
Attention was drawn to this, nobody was hurt, some newspapers were late arriving in shops and, if they weren't in plentiful supply again today, they will be tomorrow.
There was no gagging of the press, no threats to democracy -ooh, the irony ! - just a minor irritation to a few newspaper bigwigs.

[aggi]

Oh dont worry, I understand, fully , the abhorrent and pure racist term and concept of "white privilege ".

I'm just waiting for others, like your good self, to understand the concept of majority privilege( be it white, black , brown or yellow) and simple irony.

You're getting there. Now can you tell me the majority race in the UK?

[aggi]

I will try again, hopefully to make myself clearer:
I don't/didn't want to only discuss climate change
I didn't only want to discuss XR in and of itself.
I definitely didn't want to discuss politics and right/left, plenty of those threads.

What I had hoped to discuss more, were issues around, are XR right to protest, do people support them, is it right/acceptable to move from peaceful protests to protests that include civil disobedience. Should there be tougher laws against protests and the issue of blocking the press gates and how acceptable is it in changing these laws as they need to be appiled against a myriad of subjects. How does XR compare in peoples thoughts to others, such as, but not limited to Abortion/BLM and even if you want Blackburn supporters protesting, plus others.

If you look back at the history of the UK there are many examples of civil disobedience from those who history eventually judged to be on the side of right.

One of the things about living in a civilised country is that people, even if you don't agree with it, have the right to protest.

Some of XR's protests have been badly misjudged I'd say but their intention is to keep the issues in the news and push at a high level, not win over individuals.

[KateR]

If you look back at the history of the UK there are many examples of civil disobedience from those who history eventually judged to be on the side of right.

One of the things about living in a civilised country is that people, even if you don't agree with it, have the right to protest.

Some of XR's protests have been badly misjudged I'd say but their intention is to keep the issues in the news and push at a high level, not win over individuals.

My thoughts are aligned with Eddie and your posts, for me some are making a mountain out of a molehill. Obviously if you owned, had shares in or even worked at one of the papers and you worked a nightshift, then your product couldn't get to market, you have a right to be somewhat annoyed but going forward there is a line one has to be careful not to cross.

I can accept/understand civil disobedience up to a point and while not openly encouraging, I can see the need for it if you feel strongly enough about(any subject almost) it/the cause but I don't condone rioting, property/personal damage.

[RingoMcCartney]

You're getting there. Now can you tell me the majority race in the UK?

You're teacher/pupil tone is patronising arrogance. But not as lofty as some of your previous work-

Let's be honest, some of those crowing that they've been vindicated weren't really against specific elements of Black Lives Matter, they were against all of black lives matter. Just look at the crossover with bleating white lives matter/all lives matter even after the concept had been explained.

"Even when its been explained" Just have a think about that. The jaw dropping condescension laden attitude that oozes out of that line. The implication that someone has taken time out of their busy schedule to lower themselves to enlighten the lower orders and they yet, they still dont get it!

Ever occur to you that it may just come down to others simply not agreeing with your view of the world? It hasn't has it!? It really hasn't has it.

In you're haste to talk down to others you've forgotten to listen to them. I said majority privilege. NOT "majority race".

"Even after the concept has been explained" to you dont seem to be able to put the pitch fork down and comprehend? Sound familiar?

[Swizzlestick]

Somebody's rattled.

[aggi]

You're teacher/pupil tone is patronising arrogance. But not as lofty as some of your previous work-



"Even when its been explained" Just have a think about that. The jaw dropping condescension laden attitude that oozes out of that line. The implication that someone has taken time out of their busy schedule to lower themselves to enlighten the lower orders and they yet, they still dont get it!

Ever occur to you that it may just come down to others simply not agreeing with your view of the world? It hasn't has it!? It really hasn't has it.

In you're haste to talk down to others you've forgotten to listen to them. I said majority privilege. NOT "majority race".

"Even after the concept has been explained" to you dont seem to be able to put the pitch fork down and comprehend? Sound familiar?

So what's the majority race in the UK? You didn't seem to answer that.

[martin_p]

You're teacher/pupil tone is patronising arrogance. But not as lofty as some of your previous work-



"Even when its been explained" Just have a think about that. The jaw dropping condescension laden attitude that oozes out of that line. The implication that someone has taken time out of their busy schedule to lower themselves to enlighten the lower orders and they yet, they still dont get it!

Ever occur to you that it may just come down to others simply not agreeing with your view of the world? It hasn't has it!? It really hasn't has it.

In you're haste to talk down to others you've forgotten to listen to them. I said majority privilege. NOT "majority race".

"Even after the concept has been explained" to you dont seem to be able to put the pitch fork down and comprehend? Sound familiar?

You still haven’t explained how your ‘majority privilege’ theory explains why women have traditionally done so badly out of governments or how a tiny percentage of the population (the very rich) seem to do so well.

And how did ‘majority privilege’ work in South Africa before about 1991?

[RingoMcCartney]

So what's the majority race in the UK? You didn't seem to answer that.

The majority of people in the uk are white. I say that because those using the racist term ",white privilege" seem to want to boil it down to the colour of people's skin.

What does majority privilege mean? . You still dont seem to have considered it. Below you? You don't seem to answer that. "Even after the concept has been explained" to you dont seem to be able to put the pitch fork down and comprehend?

[RingoMcCartney]

You still haven’t explained how your ‘majority privilege’ theory explains why women have traditionally done so badly out of governments or how a tiny percentage of the population (the very rich) seem to do so well.

You need to explain how "women have traditionally done so badly out of governments". Or is that just your opinion?

In fact , dont bother. Save you, me and aggi hours and hours of going nowhere, mind numbingly pointless , circular, grinding borefests. You're never going to accept that where ever you are in the globe you will witness majority privilege, whether its white, black, brown or yellow. If you want to be in a state of stubborn denial that's absolutely fine by me!

Crack on.

[gandhisflipflop]

It always tickles me how certain people complain about media bias whilst ignoring the most biased, self entitled bunch of left wing influencers who deliberately push their agenda onto a vulnerable sector of our population. I give you Ladies and Gentlemen....... Teachers and University Lecturers.

Just logged in to like this post. I have been banging this drum for years. I call universities 'indoctrination factories.'

[Rileybobs]

Just logged in to like this post. I have been banging this drum for years. I call universities 'indoctrination factories.'

Is that from experience? And if so can you provide an example?

[martin_p]

You need to explain how "women have traditionally done so badly out of governments". Or is that just your opinion?

In fact , dont bother. Save you, me and aggi hours and hours of going nowhere, mind numbingly pointless , circular, grinding borefests. You're never going to accept that where ever you are in the globe you will witness majority privilege, whether its white, black, brown or yellow. If you want to be in a state of stubborn denial that's absolutely fine by me!

Crack on.

You missed the whole women’s rights movement then. Doesn’t surprise me.

Noticed you ignored my other points, but then they destroy your ‘theory’.

[RingoMcCartney]

You missed the whole women’s rights movement then. Doesn’t surprise me.

Noticed you ignored my other points, but then they destroy your ‘theory’.

Noticed you ignored my crack on point.

[RingoMcCartney]

Is that from experience? And if so can you provide an example?

BLM

Extinction Rebellion

Jeremy Corbyn

It's like shelling peas is this.

[aggi]

The majority of people in the uk are white. I say that because those using the racist term ",white privilege" seem to want to boil it down to the colour of people's skin.

What does majority privilege mean? . You still dont seem to have considered it. Below you? You don't seem to answer that. "Even after the concept has been explained" to you dont seem to be able to put the pitch fork down and comprehend?

So in the UK you have white privilege. Those who have historically made up the majority of the population, been involved in setting up the country's structures, etc unsurprisingly benefit from it.

I've never suggested it applies worldwide. I wouldn't say white privilege was a thing in Japan for instance.

You've never explained what you think majority privilege means but if your interpretation differs from the above then go ahead.

[martin_p]

Noticed you ignored my crack on point.

But I did ‘crack on’. Unless you’ve come up with a different definition of the phrase beyond, get on with it/continue/progress that everyone else uses.

[Rileybobs]

BLM

Extinction Rebellion

Jeremy Corbyn

It's like shelling peas is this.

I just asked gandhisflipflop whether he is using his own experience at university to call them indoctrination factories, and if he is can he give an example of when he encountered this indoctrination. I don’t know why you responded and you haven’t provided an example in any case.

[RingoMcCartney]

So in the UK you have white privilege. Those who have historically made up the majority of the population, been involved in setting up the country's structures, etc unsurprisingly benefit from it.

I've never suggested it applies worldwide.
I wouldn't say white privilege was a thing in Japan for instance .

You've never explained what you think majority privilege means but if your interpretation differs from the above then go ahead.

That's either gold plated fake wrongendofthestickery, or you're genuinely not as intellectually superior as you appear you believe you are!



My work here could never, never ever be done!

However, despite the suspicion of missing out on more comedy classic material, I am.

Least you've made me smile aggi. Sleep well.

[martin_p]

That's either gold plated fake wrongendofthestickery, or you're genuinely not as intellectually superior as you appear you believe you are!

Irony overload! Irony overload!

[aggi]

That's either gold plated fake wrongendofthestickery, or you're genuinely not as intellectually superior as you appear you believe you are!



My work here could never, never ever be done!

However, despite the suspicion of missing out on more comedy classic material, I am.

Least you've made me smile aggi. Sleep well.

So to sum up, you're upset because people don't say majority privilege but you refuse to explain what you believe majority privilege is.

[Damo]

I will try again, hopefully to make myself clearer:
I don't/didn't want to only discuss climate change
I didn't only want to discuss XR in and of itself.
I definitely didn't want to discuss politics and right/left, plenty of those threads.

What I had hoped to discuss more, were issues around, are XR right to protest, do people support them, is it right/acceptable to move from peaceful protests to protests that include civil disobedience. Should there be tougher laws against protests and the issue of blocking the press gates and how acceptable is it in changing these laws as they need to be appiled against a myriad of subjects. How does XR compare in peoples thoughts to others, such as, but not limited to Abortion/BLM and even if you want Blackburn supporters protesting, plus others.

Oh, well in that case I'll again post my opening comment on this thread...

I don't really have a problem with some crusty, old moonbats chaining themselves to lampposts or whatever, but I did find plenty of commentators views on the situation amusing.
There seemed to be lots of the usual suspects claiming we don't have a free press because most newspaper sales are gathered by a handful of billionaires.
Like people are forced to read certain newspapers, and the ones that agree with their particular beliefs are on the brink of bankruptcy because of some new world order type conspiracy theory.
Free press to them means restricting by force,all news and opinions that they don't agree with.
They are becoming the epitome of everything they claim to hate

which probably skewed the topic of conversation for some people, in which I stated that I dont really have a problem with people protesting.
I was more interested in some peoples response to it.

[gandhisflipflop]

Is that from experience? And if so can you provide an example?

Bit of both. It's no coincidence that most students vote left wing parties for a start. I am also a part of a generation that grew up with this bias, it isn't new (I once considered myself left wing at college) and it's only become clear to me as I have got a little older and had time to look back and actually got some life experience. It has got worse since the referendum though in my opinion.


It appears I'm not the only one thinking it too.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... =share_sms

[Spiral]

This messageboard needs concussion protocol.

[martin_p]

Bit of both. It's no coincidence that most students vote left wing parties for a start. I am also a part of a generation that grew up with this bias, it isn't new (I once considered myself left wing at college) and it's only become clear to me as I have got a little older and had time to look back and actually got some life experience. It has got worse since the referendum though in my opinion.


It appears I'm not the only one thinking it too.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... =share_sms

So what form did the indoctrination take?

[Rileybobs]

Bit of both. It's no coincidence that most students vote left wing parties for a start. I am also a part of a generation that grew up with this bias, it isn't new (I once considered myself left wing at college) and it's only become clear to me as I have got a little older and had time to look back and actually got some life experience. It has got worse since the referendum though in my opinion.


It appears I'm not the only one thinking it too.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... =share_sms

So what indoctrination did you experience at university?

[KateR]

Usual suspect reverting to the same boring drivel to try and drive home years of meaningless pontification and point scoring, yet still get it wrong with resounding monotony, resorting to the deflecting tactics of the very people they have abused time and time again.

[gandhisflipflop]

So what indoctrination did you experience at university?

It's a term I use loosely to get the point across that it is my belief that universities and colleges are pushing a liberal agenda. Again, it isn't just me who thinks that. I saw one instace in college where my particular college wanted to get students to vote in an upcoming local election, they had green, labour, lib Dems and no Tory. I didn't see how the students in the room could could make a fair enough decision on who they were going to vote for when all major parties didn't have the opportunity to speak. That's one personal experience.