I’d give the same sentence as someone carrying a gun, I can’t understand why anybody would get changed to leave the house and think, mobile, wallet, keys... 6” knifeGodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:33 amWe failed to introduce tough enough laws for carrying an offensive weapon in public.
We got soft on crime across the board, automatic releases etc.
Birmingham
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Re: Birmingham
Re: Birmingham
Different debate to the point I made but I agree with you that there should be much tougher sentencing for certain types of crimes.bobinho wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:37 pmCuts? How about making sure sentences reflect the crime. That’s bugger all to do with cuts.
Carry a knife = 5 years no parole.
2nd offence, 10 years. Take a couple of weeks to get it thru parliament/lords if they want it. Trouble is all the loony liberals keep shouting about the human rights of the criminal, and forget about the victims.
“I carry a knife you honour, but I’ve had a deprived upbringing, please send me on an all expenses paid team building holiday”
“No chance young man, you’re off to prison where you can sit idle in a cell and mess with the PlayStation game ‘GTA’ and learn about stealing cars and ho’s.... that’ll learn ya”.
We’ve only had this for the last ten years.... before that, we were ‘tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime’
But when you say “Cuts ?” are you seriously saying that you don’t think these have had an impact ?
Even with tougher sentences in place how are the police, CPS and courts going to process all of this ? It’s a long time ago now to be blaming previous Labour governments for the carnage that exists now.
Whose fault is it that sentencing is so lenient ? Whose fault is it that so few crimes get to trial in any kind of timescale that would be reasonable to the victims ?.....and so few crimes even get to trial because the CPS throw them out ?
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Re: Birmingham
It's down the local environment tbh.Burnley1989 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:05 pmI’d give the same sentence as someone carrying a gun, I can’t understand why anybody would get changed to leave the house and think, mobile, wallet, keys... 6” knife
I chucked my knife in the local amnesty bin in the mid 90's.
I'm not going to bother justifying why I carried it because I was young, a lot of us did etc.
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Re: Birmingham
I understand, I was about 15 and had to give evidence in court over a bad incident that happened, I remember getting chased by a lad Involved in the court case with a knife under the culvert so seriously considered taking one out with me, glad I didn’t but it’s the actual stabbing people in the neck that’s just so mental.GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:32 pmIt's down the local environment tbh.
I chucked my knife in the local amnesty bin in the mid 90's.
I'm not going to bother justifying why I carried it because I was young, a lot of us did etc.
Something needs doing about it quickly, it’s already gone way too far. I’d not want my teen kids going out in an evening if I lived in certain areas of the country
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Re: Birmingham
appropriate username
Re: Birmingham
What’s the point in doubling sentencing, if you can’t get people to court to be convicted in the first place.bobinho wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:37 pmCuts? How about making sure sentences reflect the crime. That’s bugger all to do with cuts.
Carry a knife = 5 years no parole.
2nd offence, 10 years. Take a couple of weeks to get it thru parliament/lords if they want it. Trouble is all the loony liberals keep shouting about the human rights of the criminal, and forget about the victims.
“I carry a knife you honour, but I’ve had a deprived upbringing, please send me on an all expenses paid team building holiday”
“No chance young man, you’re off to prison where you can sit idle in a cell and mess with the PlayStation game ‘GTA’ and learn about stealing cars and ho’s.... that’ll learn ya”.
We’ve only had this for the last ten years.... before that, we were ‘tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime’
There’s nowhere near enough officers on the ground. There isn’t enough officers to meet the 999 call demand, let alone proactively patrol.
And if someone is arrested, the Met is 800-1000 detectives short. Ive got mates in safeguarding/CID that are investigating 30+ crimes at the same time. They’re snowed under and go to work on days off to try and keep up.
The Met is 800 police sergeants short.
We don’t have enough vehicles. Often, officers have to wait 1/2/3 hours into their shift to get a car to be able to go out. All the while, the calls are stacking up.
Some cars have over 100k on the clock and keep breaking down.
There aren’t enough driving courses and instructors to meet demand. By November, if I haven’t done a refresher, I won’t be able to drive on blue lights. I’ve been trying to get a refresher for over a year.
The computers are old, and the computer systems are basic which means I have to duplicate reports because none of the systems talk to one another.
New recruits are having to pay for their own uniform because there isn’t enough to go around. 12 new officers turned up from training without body armour, so couldn’t go out.
A good friend works in the telephone reporting department, calling back victims of crime who have been robbed, burgled, assaulted, threatened. There is a backlog of 10,000 crimes. That’s 10,000 victims waiting to be spoken to. Some go as far back as March. It’s embarrassing.
There’s no contingency anymore, so when XR start up, it takes officers away from their core duties. I’ve been abstracted for the best part of two weeks, and what I’m supposed to be doing has just been left.
Need I go on?
And this is without talking about the LAS, NHS, mental health services, prison, probation..
It is an absolute shambles, and has EVERYTHING to do with cuts.
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Re: Birmingham
No, I'm not seriously suggesting they haven't had an impact... and i agree with you the cuts might be a tiny contributing factor.TVC15 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:22 pmDifferent debate to the point I made but I agree with you that there should be much tougher sentencing for certain types of crimes.
But when you say “Cuts ?” are you seriously saying that you don’t think these have had an impact ?
Even with tougher sentences in place how are the police, CPS and courts going to process all of this ? It’s a long time ago now to be blaming previous Labour governments for the carnage that exists now.
Whose fault is it that sentencing is so lenient ? Whose fault is it that so few crimes get to trial in any kind of timescale that would be reasonable to the victims ?.....and so few crimes even get to trial because the CPS throw them out ?
The authorities are struggling to get cases to (and through) court because there are now so many hoops they have to jump thru to keep everybody happy it's unreal. Even spelling someone's name incorrectly gets cases thrown out. Somebody not doing their job thoroughly enough can hardly be blamed on cuts can it?. Timescales i get, and that's absolutely fair enough, but lenient sentencing? They are ALL to blame for that, but lets be honest, it's more likely to be Labour who are finding ways/reasons to keep people out of prison than the tories.
I'm not solely blaming labour governments from the past - ALL governments are to blame for where we are. But we must ALL remember that this didn't start in the last ten years. It's been going on for donkeys years. I think most people know the answer to some of the questions you are asking though... you probably do too.
Someone mentioned earlier about making prison a really **** place to be. Lets do that, I mean make it really, really bad. But we can't can we? We'd have Cherie Blair sue-ing the government on behalf of rapists and murderers and terrorists and every other type of 'misunderstood rogue` because they can't watch Emmerdale or have vegan food.
We pander to the criminals because we are absolutely **** scared of upsetting any kind of minority, but any right minded person shouldn't class criminals this way.
Next someone will be suggesting it was cuts that lead to all the grooming gangs to be allowed to operate untouched for so long, when we all know it was something far more dangerous.
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Re: Birmingham
Great post TB.
So many assumptions and opinions made by people based on no idea of what is happening in the real world and those who are living and breathing the impact of the severe cuts in resources.
There is nothing political whatsoever about your post and why would you say anything else other than what you are seeing every day ?
And I say that because I know some will day my view is based on being a labour supporter. It isn’t - I have close family in the force and I’ve also recently had some close exposure to the criminal justice system and every single person I met and spoke to said the system is completely broken and it’s a direct result of the cuts in resources over many years.
If Labour has done this over a 10 year period - I’d be saying exactly the same thing - as would the people in the middle of it all now.
And it’s not even a Tory v Labour thing because funnily enough the current set of jokers are saying you invest your way out of debt rather than go down the austerity route.
So many assumptions and opinions made by people based on no idea of what is happening in the real world and those who are living and breathing the impact of the severe cuts in resources.
There is nothing political whatsoever about your post and why would you say anything else other than what you are seeing every day ?
And I say that because I know some will day my view is based on being a labour supporter. It isn’t - I have close family in the force and I’ve also recently had some close exposure to the criminal justice system and every single person I met and spoke to said the system is completely broken and it’s a direct result of the cuts in resources over many years.
If Labour has done this over a 10 year period - I’d be saying exactly the same thing - as would the people in the middle of it all now.
And it’s not even a Tory v Labour thing because funnily enough the current set of jokers are saying you invest your way out of debt rather than go down the austerity route.
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Re: Birmingham
Meanwhile a man from Leafy Surrey goes on trial for stabbing his 86year old mother through the heart decapitated her putting her head in the freezer and popping her severed wedding finger and rings in the kettle.RingoMcCartney wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:08 pm"SEVEN men are stabbed in one night in violent scenes across Lawless London including a teenager knifed on the Underground - as police make five arrests"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ondon.html
Barely gets a mention as it's just another night in the cesspit capital.
Re: Birmingham
I was using the word “tiny” in a sarcastic way. To be clear my personal view is that it’s a massive contributing factor - and in fact the biggest factor by far.
If you don’t believe me maybe have a read of TsarBomba’s post - a police officer who is in the middle of all of this.
As for the rest of your post you are entitled to your views - they are very different to mine. I’m not going to get into a big debate with you as we would agree on very little if nothing.
In terms of people in the process making mistakes they will tell you (and I have seen it with my own eyes in the last few weeks) that it’s because of the sheer weight of pressure they are under because of the cuts in resources.
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Re: Birmingham
The village in which I live has had the Post Office raided twice in six months and the local Londis convenience store done over recently with one local police source claiming local crime has risen 25% since lockdown began.
If this true, a change of tactics is required - nobody I know has seen a police officer in the village for months except when they are hurtling through, siren blaring, lights flashing, on their way to yet another accident on the nearby A38.
We used to have a manned police station....gone.
Burton used to have a Magistrates Court.....gone.
It's no wonder the scrotes are having a field day. Johnson needs to go further than restoring the Tories' earlier, disastrous cuts and build up a force that can actually have a chance of reversing the tide.
If this true, a change of tactics is required - nobody I know has seen a police officer in the village for months except when they are hurtling through, siren blaring, lights flashing, on their way to yet another accident on the nearby A38.
We used to have a manned police station....gone.
Burton used to have a Magistrates Court.....gone.
It's no wonder the scrotes are having a field day. Johnson needs to go further than restoring the Tories' earlier, disastrous cuts and build up a force that can actually have a chance of reversing the tide.
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Re: Birmingham
Some people need locking up & the key throwing away that's only because we have to have people serving custodial sentences as my preferred option capital punishment is abolished, cuts are only necessary because we are keeping people in prisons with some might say in luxury conditions, with gyms & recreation rooms & social workers & rehab centres & menu choices in terms of food. If you locked people up with lengthier sentences in really basic prisons you'd be able to afford to have all the streets lined up with police people due to them savings, but it'd be pointless because if you housed prisoners in really tough hard conditions they wouldn't reoffend or certainly less likely to. We are creating the problems & then struggling to find the answers to the problems it's absolutely bonkers.
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Re: Birmingham
I know it was sarcasm....that's why I referred to it quite specifically.TVC15 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:18 pmI was using the word “tiny” in a sarcastic way. To be clear my personal view is that it’s a massive contributing factor - and in fact the biggest factor by far.
If you don’t believe me maybe have a read of TsarBomba’s post - a police officer who is in the middle of all of this.
As for the rest of your post you are entitled to your views - they are very different to mine. I’m not going to get into a big debate with you as we would agree on very little if nothing.
In terms of people in the process making mistakes they will tell you (and I have seen it with my own eyes in the last few weeks) that it’s because of the sheer weight of pressure they are under because of the cuts in resources.
I have read Tsarbomba's post, and it makes for grim reading. As a recent victim of a crime that wasn't even investigated i can well sympathise with his colleagues who couldn't go out for hours because they didn't have a car... the ones in the van outside Greggs today were ok. The two cars sat in the McDonalds drive thru queue were running ok (see, i get sarcasm) But i repeat, we are clearly NOT in this position purely because of the recent cuts. The crazy thing in all this is how everyone is happy to ignore why we have to make these cuts at all...
I work to deadlines every day, every week. It's the pressure of work, but if i make a mistake, i rectify it. Every single person feels under pressure at some point... some people get paid handsomely for it and some don't but blaming the `weight of pressure` to explain why scrotes walk free or don't even get to court is a bit `convenient` and easy. There is a process. Straightforward enough to follow it. Shame that process has been made extremely convoluted in order to pacify un-silent minorities.
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Re: Birmingham
Nearly as bonkers as the idea of putting punishments to a public vote.Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:34 pmSome people need locking up & the key throwing away that's only because we have to have people serving custodial sentences as my preferred option capital punishment is abolished, cuts are only necessary because we are keeping people in prisons with some might say in luxury conditions, with gyms & recreation rooms & social workers & rehab centres & menu choices in terms of food. If you locked people up with lengthier sentences in really basic prisons you'd be able to afford to have all the streets lined up with police people due to them savings, but it'd be pointless because if you housed prisoners in really tough hard conditions they wouldn't reoffend or certainly less likely to. We are creating the problems & then struggling to find the answers to the problems it's absolutely bonkers.
Re: Birmingham
No surprises with the CCTV footage.
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Re: Birmingham
Reading jail is up for sale
Closed some while ago and empty
Good enough to reopen to help with overcrowding
Closed some while ago and empty
Good enough to reopen to help with overcrowding
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Re: Birmingham
So people are obsessing about the offender’s race? Why is that important?
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Re: Birmingham
Cos their racist
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Re: Birmingham
Dunno, it's Birmingham so it wasn't guaranteed to be a person from one race over another.
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Re: Birmingham
Yeah, I suppose that’s fairly obvious and not sure why I even asked the question. Imagine seeing an incident like this and your first thought being I bet the offender is a particular race. Sad little people.
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Re: Birmingham
I suspect a black cop killing a black man in such a manner would not have garnered as much world wide attention.
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Re: Birmingham
Race was an important factor in what followed George Floyd's killing.
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Re: Birmingham
You didn’t “refer” to it - you agreed with it...which is a bit weird if you knew it was sarcastic as that suggests you are agreeing it is not a tiny contribution !bobinho wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:39 pmI know it was sarcasm....that's why I referred to it quite specifically.
I have read Tsarbomba's post, and it makes for grim reading. As a recent victim of a crime that wasn't even investigated i can well sympathise with his colleagues who couldn't go out for hours because they didn't have a car... the ones in the van outside Greggs today were ok. The two cars sat in the McDonalds drive thru queue were running ok (see, i get sarcasm) But i repeat, we are clearly NOT in this position purely because of the recent cuts. The crazy thing in all this is how everyone is happy to ignore why we have to make these cuts at all...
I work to deadlines every day, every week. It's the pressure of work, but if i make a mistake, i rectify it. Every single person feels under pressure at some point... some people get paid handsomely for it and some don't but blaming the `weight of pressure` to explain why scrotes walk free or don't even get to court is a bit `convenient` and easy. There is a process. Straightforward enough to follow it. Shame that process has been made extremely convoluted in order to pacify un-silent minorities.
Anyhoo as I said we have massively differing views on this -as the rest of your post evidences.
I’m not sure who has said on this thread it’s “purely” down to cuts...that would be almost as short sighted as what you are saying. It’s an extremely complex area and there are many factors which contribute to crime. Personally my view is from experience and what people right in the middle of this are telling me - they have worked in the system for years and before austerity so they are able to distinguish between what’s happening now and how it was previously.
I have not heard anyone say it was a bed of roses prior to austerity either. They are just saying what has changed and why we currently have the situation of so much crime taking so long or never getting to trial and everyone of them from all sides says it’s directly as a result of the cuts in resources.
In terms of your argument on weak sentencing and not being tough enough as I said I don’t necessarily disagree with you to a degree (obviously not to your extent or the nutter wanting capital punishment) but it’s a confusing argument to put forward for what is happening now as that would suggest it was tougher sentencing before austerity and you know that was not the case.
Last edited by TVC15 on Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Birmingham
I think it was George Floyd’s race which was considered the important factor. And why are we digressing anyway? I’m asking why the race of this particular person is important to some people. The thinly veiled comments have been on this thread from the beginning. The fact that more people seem bothered about challenging my comments than those of the racists is a worrying trend.
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Re: Birmingham
The public are entitled to decide democratically in my opinion, doesn't mean I'm right doesn't mean I'm wrong, I've got overall faith in fellow human beings being capable of making sound decisions & judgement calls, you clearly don't trust people in making decisions.TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:44 pmNearly as bonkers as the idea of putting punishments to a public vote.
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Re: Birmingham
The Race of this particular person seems to be important to you....as you raised the question also.Rileybobs wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:44 pmI think it was George Floyd’s race which was considered the important factor. And why are we digressing anyway? I’m asking why the race of this particular person is important to some people. The thinly veiled comments have been on this thread from the beginning. The fact that more people seem bothered about challenging my comments than those of the racists is a worrying trend.
Re: Birmingham
Nothing to do with trust
Everything to do with the country have people as bat sh-it crazy as you deciding on others lives
Everything to do with the country have people as bat sh-it crazy as you deciding on others lives
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Re: Birmingham
Tbf....I think the poster got it right.
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Re: Birmingham
I really don’t know where you’re going with this. You seem to be misunderstanding my point entirely.
Upon seeing this news why would someone’s first thought be - I bet the person is this particular race? I don’t care whether the person racially stereotyping proved to be correct in this particular instance.
Re: Birmingham
Given the oppression, what this event shows, is the rarity of it.
If there were a mass shooting for every lottery winner... Get my drift?
If there were a mass shooting for every lottery winner... Get my drift?
Re: Birmingham
Even if there were one every day, it would be rare but because we're all pummeled by News Media it's like everywhere at all times.
Re: Birmingham
The point of news is that it's NEWS i.e. out of the ordinary and not regular. But because NEWS is pushing into everyday lives, it makes out that NEWS is life as it is. Total illusion for mass hypnosis.
Re: Birmingham
They'd have you locking your doors in Burnley if there were a tiger on the loose in Uttar Pradesh.
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Re: Birmingham
Correct what is your point? .......Tbh. Thinking is dangerous. Overthinking what someone else is thinking could be more so.Rileybobs wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:18 pmI really don’t know where you’re going with this. You seem to be misunderstanding my point entirely.
Upon seeing this news why would someone’s first thought be - I bet the person is this particular race? I don’t care whether the person racially stereotyping proved to be correct in this particular instance.
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Re: Birmingham
I think my point is pretty clear, and I think you know it. If upon seeing this news your first thought is I bet the perpetrator is (insert race), then you’re a racist.
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Re: Birmingham
There's a retired chief super that guests regularly on Talkradio.Pimlico_Claret wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:01 pmONE of the biggest causes of the problems. I've numerous friends in/retired from the Police, and nearly all will say that the leadership is **** poor.
30 years in London he did. He knows what he's on about.
He says, increasingly, the top coppers have never walked the streets. More concerned about " community cohesion" and " cultural sensitivities" than banging , repetitive, wrong 'uns up . Should've heard what he had to to say about Cressida Dick, throwing her men , "under the bus"
Worryingly, its not unique to the police and is systematic throughout many , many aspects of public life. Fortunately, the masses are awakening to it. If the tories are seen as incapable of turning things around. Then I believe that the , until now, silent majority, will vote in a way ensures , one way or another , it does......
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Re: Birmingham
Like this post lots.Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:52 pmThe public are entitled to decide democratically in my opinion, doesn't mean I'm right doesn't mean I'm wrong, I've got overall faith in fellow human beings being capable of making sound decisions & judgement calls, you clearly don't trust people in making decisions.
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Re: Birmingham
Believe it could be one of Gary Lineker's lodgers
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Re: Birmingham
You'd be very high on my list of people I wouldn't trust to make decisions.Jakubclaret wrote: ↑Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:52 pmThe public are entitled to decide democratically in my opinion, doesn't mean I'm right doesn't mean I'm wrong, I've got overall faith in fellow human beings being capable of making sound decisions & judgement calls, you clearly don't trust people in making decisions.
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Re: Birmingham
No wonder the police were treading on eggshells.
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Re: Birmingham
27 year old arrested
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Re: Birmingham
I thought all along it would be one of his lodgers