Craig Dawson

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:10 am

Surely if Tarkowski does leave then he would be the ideal short term replacement, and whilst it not being the perfect solution, it certainly brings in a good defender at Premier league level.

He's 30, very good in the air and would seem to fit into our system very easily.

jedi_master · Post by **jedi_master** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:14 am

We should have signed him last summer arguably, and I think with Tarkowski almost certain to leave that this will be tied on. He is a player Dyche has tried to sign three times (I think?).

As you say, a solid performer, experienced at this level - the right sort to fill that slot in an unspectacular manner for a couple of years whilst the other centre back we sign (Worrall?) learns his trade ready to take his place. For me, get both of them in - one for the now, one for the next cycle.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:15 am

2014 was when I had the first Dawson article written, then we looked likely to get him again in 2018. Not sure we'd go back.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:20 am

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:15 am
2014 was when I had the first Dawson article written, then we looked likely to get him again in 2018. Not sure we'd go back.

If JT does leave we may have no choice if the options are Kevin Long and some of the untried U23's. That's a big risk for this level.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:21 am

Spijed wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:20 am
If JT does leave we may have no choice if the options are Kevin Long and some of the untried U23's. That's a big risk for this level.

So you are suggesting that should Tarkowski leave our only choice would be Dawson?

Top Claret · Post by **Top Claret** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:25 am

Spijed wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:20 am
If JT does leave we may have no choice if the options are Kevin Long and some of the untried U23's. That's a big risk for this level.

Not seen much of Dawson but I doubt if he is much better than Kevin Long. I was impressed with Kevin when he debutised for Mee, he did well for us bar one game

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:26 am

Apart from Worrall have we been linked to anyone else?

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:32 am

Top Claret wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:25 am
Not seen much of Dawson but I doubt if he is much better than Kevin Long. I was impressed with Kevin when he debutised for Mee, he did well for us bar one game

Their respective careers to date would suggest he is much better than Kevin Long.

If we have a season with Kevin Long as one of our mainstays we are bang in trouble. He can fill here and there, he is a liability beyond that.

claretonthecoast1882 · Post by **claretonthecoast1882** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:33 am

arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:32 am
Their respective careers to date would suggest he is much better than Kevin Long.

If we have a season with Kevin Long as one of our mainstays we are bang in trouble. He can fill here and there, he is a liability beyond that.

What has he ever done that warrants him being labelled a liability

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:36 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:33 am
What has he ever done that warrants him being labelled a liability

Check out the last game of the season. All over the place. He ball watches.

There is a reason why he's a bit part player and why the uber loyal Sean Dyche removes him from the team at the first opportunity.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:37 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:33 am
What has he ever done that warrants him being labelled a liability

Nothing, but more importantly what has he ever done to suggest that he is suitable as a regular starter?

claretonthecoast1882 · Post by **claretonthecoast1882** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:38 am

arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:36 am
Check out the last game of the season. All over the place. He ball watches.

There is a reason why he's a bit part player and why the uber loyal Sean Dyche removes him from the team at the first opportunity.

The reason he doesn't play week in week out is he isn't as good as the 1st choice pair... shock horror

matttheclaret · Post by **matttheclaret** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:38 am

arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:32 am
Their respective careers to date would suggest he is much better than Kevin Long.

If we have a season with Kevin Long as one of our mainstays we are bang in trouble. He can fill here and there, he is a liability beyond that.

Liability is maybe a tad harsh, but agree in the main.

I'd be concerned if Kevin Long played the majority of games next season. Decent cover, but a PL starter? No chance.

claretonthecoast1882 · Post by **claretonthecoast1882** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:38 am

summitclaret wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:37 am
Nothing, but more importantly what has he ever done to suggest that he is suitable ri olay s film season and as a regular starter?

Did this make sense when it set off ?

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:40 am

Yes and so the end.

claretonthecoast1882 · Post by **claretonthecoast1882** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:41 am

summitclaret wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:40 am
Yes and so the end.

Papabendi · Post by **Papabendi** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:42 am

decent player - got a goal in him too.

mdd2 · Post by **mdd2** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:42 am

Top Claret wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:25 am
Not seen much of Dawson but I doubt if he is much better than Kevin Long. I was impressed with Kevin when he debutised for Mee, he did well for us bar one game

And Sean told us at the time Kevin had been troubled by a back problem

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:44 am

Our defense has been our anchor in the last 3-4 seasons-a strong back four and two great keepers. To think KL could be one of our main CH's is frankly frightening. As has been said tremendously loyal and someone you can live with if he is playing a few games because of other injuries, but he is not savvy enough to be playing in the PL on a long term basis. He has been with us for 10 years and if he was that good someone from the Championship would have come in for him. Plus does he have the desire-he seems happy to just be in the squad

My concern now is two fold-we may lose JT, but if he is not bought by another club how motivated will he be with us

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:44 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:38 am
The reason he doesn't play week in week out is he isn't as good as the 1st choice pair... shock horror

He has been with us 11 years and in that time we have signed multiple centre backs all of whom have immediately jumped ahead of him.

That tells you all you meed to know.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:44 am

Top Claret wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:25 am
Not seen much of Dawson but I doubt if he is much better than Kevin Long. I was impressed with Kevin when he debutised for Mee, he did well for us bar one game

Far better than Long. Over 190 league appearances for West Brom and 29 last season for Watford despite an injury. Total of well over 300 league appearances in total. That would suggest he's at a level or two above Long who can do OK for a while but then costs you as he did in the last game. Too many mistakes in him I'm afraid which is why he'll never be more than cover.

claretonthecoast1882 · Post by **claretonthecoast1882** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:45 am

warksclaret wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:44 am
Our defense has been our anchor in the last 3-4 seasons-a strong back four and two great keepers. To think KL could be one of our main CH's is frankly frightening. As has been said tremendously loyal and someone you can live with if he is playing a few games because of other injuries, but he is not savvy enough to be playing in the PL on a long term basis. He has been with us for 10 years and if he was that good someone from the Championship would have come in for him. Plus does he have the desire-he seems happy to just be in the squad

My concern now is two fold-we may lose JT, but if he is not bought by another club how motivated will he be with us

So you are worried if he goes but also worried if he stays, maybe you worry too much

claretonthecoast1882 · Post by **claretonthecoast1882** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:45 am

arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:44 am
He has been with us 11 years and in that time we have signed multiple centre backs all of whom have immediately jumped ahead of him.

That tells you all you meed to know.

Yes he is seen by Dyche as back up, not a liability as stupidly put

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:47 am

If Tarkowski is going, we're possibly looking at Long plus one of Taylor or Pieters starting as Centre Backs in the first game

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:54 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:45 am
Yes he is seen by Dyche as back up, not a liability as stupidly put

My opinion. I think your opinion is equally as stupid. So be it.

Gordaleman · Post by **Gordaleman** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:56 am

I don't understand this animosity towards Long. Every time he plays, he puts a good shift in and he also poses a threat going forward. Yes, he makes mistakes, but so do Mee and Tarky. As for reading the game, maybe he'd do better if he played regularly? I certainly don't think of him as instant relegation material, and those who do are being grossly unfair.

Anyway, I think Tarky's interview was aimed more at Sarfgate than anyone else. I don't think any of the top four will come in for him, and unless he goes abroad, that's the only way he'd get Champions League football.

claretonthecoast1882 · Post by **claretonthecoast1882** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:56 am

arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:54 am
My opinion. I think your opinion is equally as stupid. So be it.

My opinion that he isn't a liability is stupid ?

I wonder who is in a better position to judge him you or Dyche, Dyche is quite happy to have him in the squad also happy to play him.

I will back his judgement over yours I think.

Mala591 · Post by **Mala591** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:57 am

randomclaret2 wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:47 am
If Tarkowski is going, we're possibly looking at Long plus one of Taylor or Pieters starting as Centre Backs in the first game

You forgot to add a

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:04 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:56 am
My opinion that he isn't a liability is stupid ?

I wonder who is in a better position to judge him you or Dyche, Dyche is quite happy to have him in the squad also happy to play him.

I will back his judgement over yours I think.

In my opinion, yes it is.

I also trust Dyche over you, hence why I fully expect he will do all he can to avoid having KL as first choice, like he has done for the last 7 years.

Row Z · Post by **Row Z** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:12 am

Given Ben Mee's injury he's got to be a good option to strengthen our defence immediately. As has been said, provides an option at RB and can't be any more limited going forward than Lowton and Bardsley.

wilks_bfc · Post by **wilks_bfc** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:36 am

arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:44 am
He has been with us 11 years and in that time we have signed multiple centre backs all of whom have immediately jumped ahead of him.

That tells you all you meed to know.

He has been with us 11 years and in that time played under multiple manages all of whom have offered him new contracts.

That tells you all you need to know.

Murger · Post by **Murger** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:38 am

wilks_bfc wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:36 am
He has been with us 11 years and in that time played under multiple manages all of whom have offered him new contracts.

That tells you all you need to know.

And never been a regular with any of them. That also tells you all you need to know.

matttheclaret · Post by **matttheclaret** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:45 am

All this talk and discussion about Kevin Long and I'd say we all think exactly the same; more than fine as cover but not good enough to be a regular starter.

Gordaleman · Post by **Gordaleman** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:49 am

arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:04 am
In my opinion, yes it is.

I also trust Dyche over you, hence why I fully expect he will do all he can to avoid having KL as first choice, like he has done for the last 7 years.

It's not a case of because he's not first choice, he's not good enough. He's just not quite as good as what we have and have had, with Keane, Tarky and Mee. Maybe we've been spoiled in that department? Kevin Long is a very good CH. What makes you think that a replacement that we can afford, would be any better?

wilks_bfc · Post by **wilks_bfc** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:58 am

Murger wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:38 am
And never been a regular with any of them. That also tells you all you need to know.

We have been lucky with the form & lack of injuries of our CB over the years.
Kevin Long is a "victim" of the clubs success imo.
If we were still a mid-table Championship side, Long would most probably have been one of the first choice CB

Is he good enough as a first choice premier league defender? Probably not
Is he good enough as a backup premier league defender? Yes

He may not be a regular, but he obviously has enough about him, for the mangers and the club to back him to do a job when needed, which I think he has.

Ask anybody in any woke of life to do a role that they havent for a while, and it would take them a little bit of time to get into it

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:58 am

wilks_bfc wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:36 am
He has been with us 11 years and in that time played under multiple manages all of whom have offered him new contracts.

That tells you all you need to know.

He's happy filling in occasionally and getting a wage?
He's made more appearances for other clubs than he has for us during his time here.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:59 am

Gordaleman wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:49 am
It's not a case of because he's not first choice, he's not good enough. He's just not quite as good as what we have and have had, with Keane, Tarky and Mee. Maybe we've been spoiled in that department? Kevin Long is a very good CH. What makes you think that a replacement that we can afford, would be any better?

Every other CH we've signed has been better though, that's why we keep signing other CH's to be our main option.

Gordaleman · Post by **Gordaleman** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:08 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:59 am
Every other CH we've signed has been better though, that's why we keep signing other CH's to be our main option.

So why all the complaints from people on here if we keep getting better and better? Maybe we'll sign Van Dijk?

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:08 am

With Tarky almost certain to go we need a quality “ off the peg “ prem centre half and Kevin Long really isn’t that .He’s reliable cover but with Mee possibly out for the start and no right back signed our defence is looking very shaky indeed

Firthy · Post by **Firthy** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:18 am

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:15 am
2014 was when I had the first Dawson article written, then we looked likely to get him again in 2018. Not sure we'd go back.

Third time lucky maybe

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:19 am

Gordaleman wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:08 am
So why all the complaints from people on here if we keep getting better and better? Maybe we'll sign Van Dijk?

You're the one who said he's very good and there's no guarantee whoever we sign will be better than him.
I'm just pointing out that the ones we've signed to date have all been better than him

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:20 am

AlargeClaret wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:08 am
With Tarky almost certain to go we need a quality “ off the peg “ prem centre half and Kevin Long really isn’t that .He’s reliable cover but with Mee possibly out for the start and no right back signed our defence is looking very shaky indeed

We've got 2 right backs already in the squad, do we need a 3rd?

Gordaleman · Post by **Gordaleman** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:22 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:19 am
You're the one who said he's very good and there's no guarantee whoever we sign will be better than him.
I'm just pointing out that the ones we've signed to date have all been better than him

You may well be right, but I don't think Craig Dawson would be an improvement, especially with no 'Sell on' value.

claretonthecoast1882 · Post by **claretonthecoast1882** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:25 am

arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:04 am
In my opinion, yes it is.

I also trust Dyche over you, hence why I fully expect he will do all he can to avoid having KL as first choice, like he has done for the last 7 years.

You seem to be struggling so I will try again with you.

If he was a liability do you think Dyche would have him even near the squad ? I am not saying he should be starting or 1st pick just that labelling hima liability is/was stupid

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:27 am

Gordaleman wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:22 am
You may well be right, but I don't think Craig Dawson would be an improvement, especially with no 'Sell on' value.

Same age as Long but has been playing first team football for the majority of his career.

I'd say he's vastly more experienced and would potentially be a suitable replacement for Tarks for a few years whilst we find the next Tarks/Keane style signing.

Gordaleman · Post by **Gordaleman** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:31 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:27 am
Same age as Long but has been playing first team football for the majority of his career.

I'd say he's vastly more experienced and would potentially be a suitable replacement for Tarks for a few years whilst we find the next Tarks/Keane style signing.

But we don't have to pay for Long. What we should be doing is what we usually do. That's find a good young un, like we did with Mee, Keane, then Tarky and bring them on.

Anyway, Tarky hasn't gone anywhere yet. Best not to bury people before they die eh?

Clarky · Post by **Clarky** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:33 am

Dawson has been in 2 different teams relegated in the last 3 seasons, not a good recommendation!

Clarky · Post by **Clarky** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:34 am

Dawson has been in 2 different teams relegated in the last 3 seasons, not a good recommendation!

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:40 am

AlargeClaret wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:08 am
With Tarky almost certain to go we need a quality “ off the peg “ prem centre half and Kevin Long really isn’t that .He’s reliable cover but with Mee possibly out for the start and no right back signed our defence is looking very shaky indeed

Almost certain to go? Really?

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:42 am

AlargeClaret wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:08 am
With Tarky almost certain to go we need a quality “ off the peg “ prem centre half and Kevin Long really isn’t that .He’s reliable cover but with Mee possibly out for the start and no right back signed our defence is looking very shaky indeed

So you’ve sold Tarky and managed to lose both Bardsley & Lowton.