Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

[Greenmile]

.... a stupid culture war would take precedence over an economic trade deal...

Remind anyone of anything?

I’ll give you a clue - it starts with a “B”.

[martin_p]

No, the EU certainly does not have a "perfectly good trade deal" with the USA. Neither did we when we were part of the EU.

With a bit of luck we soon will have though.

So they don’t have one and neither do we, I’m not sure what your point is there. But your reaction to the Japan trade deal was ‘even if it’s only as good as the EU deal it’s one we’ve negotiated ourselves’. How’s that not culture war before trade?

[Spijed]

Seems Boris has handed all the power back to Brussels and we are going to get BRINO:

https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expre ... -eu-latest

[AndrewJB]

https://metro.co.uk/2020/09/20/boris-wo ... -13297031/

When he’s not giving Johnny Foreigner the what for, man of the people Johnson worries about money, just like normal people do.

[aggi]

This is a bizarre story:

Exclusive: according to an official statement of the Italian airport dated September 17th, the British prime minister “travelled to Perugia over the past few days”. Sources: “Johnson landed in Perugia on Friday 11 September at 2 pm and left on Monday morning”. Downing Street: “This claim is wrong”

https://www.repubblica.it/esteri/2020/0 ... 267989244/

[martin_p]

This is a bizarre story:

Exclusive: according to an official statement of the Italian airport dated September 17th, the British prime minister “travelled to Perugia over the past few days”. Sources: “Johnson landed in Perugia on Friday 11 September at 2 pm and left on Monday morning”. Downing Street: “This claim is wrong”

https://www.repubblica.it/esteri/2020/0 ... 267989244/

Given he’s hardly the most visible PM we’ve had it wouldn’t be difficult for him to slip away for a few days unnoticed.

[Spijed]

Given he’s hardly the most visible PM we’ve had it wouldn’t be difficult for him to slip away for a few days unnoticed.

He comes across as somewhat of a coward at times.

[dsr]

He comes across as somewhat of a coward at times.

Prime Ministers never advertise their holidays in advance. Possibly to do with personal security. The royal family are the same.

Though if they are denying it, I suspect it isn't true. It would be such a foolish thing to get the sack for. And I can't think of any professional reason to go that would be worth lying about afterwards.

[aggi]

Prime Ministers never advertise their holidays in advance. Possibly to do with personal security. The royal family are the same.

Though if they are denying it, I suspect it isn't true. It would be such a foolish thing to get the sack for. And I can't think of any professional reason to go that would be worth lying about afterwards.

I can only imagine the reason for lying about it would be linked to Lebedev, hasn't Johnson refused to answer awkward questions about trips out there in the past?

The latest is that Perugia airport was going to issue a clarification but now it's not. Who knows?

[claretandy]

More fake news amplified by the #FBPE EU flag loons.

https://twitter.com/NickSquires1/status ... 5126222848

[Devils_Advocate]

Boris Johnson update.

"We agreed that we should go for a short flight to see if I could travel safely, we flew for roughly 2 hours and ended up on the outskirts of Perugia. We did not visit the castle, we did not walk around the town."

[Clarets4me]

The " Guardian " had this as the 2nd lead on it's website for much of today .... it's now been proved to be totally untrue ..

[Devils_Advocate]

The " Guardian " had this as the 2nd lead on it's website for much of today .... it's now been proved to be totally untrue ..

Has it actually been proved? I honestly havent seen any proof on either side

[tiger76]

Theresa May refusing to back The Internal Market Bill, can't say that unduly surprises me.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54242235

[Clarets4me]

Has it actually been proved? I honestly havent seen any proof on either side

The " President " of Perugia Airport has stated that the " registers " have been checked and he did not use the airport .. the day after, on the 12th, his son was christened at Westminster Abbey and he attended that ... I suspect they saw Blair and it got lost in translation

How many of us would recognise the current Prime Ministers of Spain, Portugal, Denmark etc ?

[martin_p]

Has it actually been proved? I honestly havent seen any proof on either side

It does seem unlikely to be true given it was his son’s baptism on one of the days he was supposedly in Italy. Johnson can’t really blame people for thinking he might be lying though, he’s got form.

[Devils_Advocate]

The " President " of Perugia Airport has stated that the " registers " have been checked and he did not use the airport .. the day after, on the 12th, his son was christened at Westminster Abbey and he attended that ... I suspect they saw Blair and it got lost in translation

How many of us would recognise the current Prime Ministers of Spain, Portugal, Denmark etc ?

The original reports mentioned both Blair and Johnson both going through the airport. If I was a betting man at even odds id back Johnson wasnt there every time but I haven't seen anything conclusive that he wasnt there

Just to add the onus isnt on Johnson to prove he wasnt there but I think your statement that it has been proved to be totally not true is incorrect

[Devils_Advocate]

It does seem unlikely to be true given it was his son’s baptism on one of the days he was supposedly in Italy. Johnson can’t really blame people for thinking he might be lying though, he’s got form.

I agree and apart from my jokey comment I havent got involved. I just think to say it has been proved to be totally untrue is going over the top the other way

Just stick to the facts as at the moment them alone paint the claim as unsubstantiated wishful thinking on the side of the anti-tory bigrade

[dsr]

I agree and apart from my jokey comment I havent got involved. I just think to say it has been proved to be totally untrue is going over the top the other way

Just stick to the facts as at the moment them alone paint the claim as unsubstantiated wishful thinking on the side of the anti-tory bigrade

I suppose Johnson could have pulled the "Eagle Has Landed" trick and sent a double to the Christening while he was in Perugia. (Or vice versa, I suppose. But that would mean he was never there.) Or that Johnson actually does have a doppelganger and was genuinely in two places at once; or that he flew to Perugia on Friday and had an RAF jet return him secretly on Saturday and fly out secretly on Sunday before returning on Monday. None of those things have been disproved.

But it's easier to believe that an anonymous official at Perugia got it wrong.

[Devils_Advocate]

I suppose Johnson could have pulled the "Eagle Has Landed" trick and sent a double to the Christening while he was in Perugia. (Or vice versa, I suppose. But that would mean he was never there.) Or that Johnson actually does have a doppelganger and was genuinely in two places at once; or that he flew to Perugia on Friday and had an RAF jet return him secretly on Saturday and fly out secretly on Sunday before returning on Monday. None of those things have been disproved.

But it's easier to believe that an anonymous official at Perugia got it wrong.

I havent believed anything and I havent seen any evidence of this christening taking place. Show me a pic or even a report of the christening event before this Perugia story broke and I'll take that as reasonable proof (I did initially just ask a question if there was proof)

If you havent any evidence of this christening then it sounds like you are the one just believing things not me

[Rowls]

Given he’s hardly the most visible PM we’ve had it wouldn’t be difficult for him to slip away for a few days unnoticed.

Wow. There are people on here who think the PM can "slip away" for a few days unnoticed.

How do you think he does this? Take a quick EasyJet flight to to Venice? Tells all his security staff to look away constantly?

This is as credible as the much repeated and disgraceful claims on this site against Ted Heath etc that have since been proven to be complete fantasy.

[Rowls]

It does seem unlikely to be true given it was his son’s baptism on one of the days he was supposedly in Italy. Johnson can’t really blame people for thinking he might be lying though, he’s got form.

Yes martin.

It's entirely feasible that one of the most heavily protected, guarded and watched men in the world might just slip off from all his security arrangements for a shopping trip or something in Italy.

And I also think that Ted Heath and Elton John and Cliff Richard used to cut off young boys fingers and torture them in the Downing Street basement.

[Rowls]

Given he’s hardly the most visible PM we’ve had it wouldn’t be difficult for him to slip away for a few days unnoticed.

Leaving this here for the God of Wishful Thinking and the God of Tendentiousness.

All hail.

Amen.

[dsr]

I havent believed anything and I havent seen any evidence of this christening taking place. Show me a pic or even a report of the christening event before this Perugia story broke and I'll take that as reasonable proof (I did initially just ask a question if there was proof)

If you havent any evidence of this christening then it sounds like you are the one just believing things not me

I've no evidence that you would consider reliable. It was reported at the time in the Mirror, Mail, Telegraph, Sun, Metro, Express, just to take the first page of a google search. And the photos could have been taken on antother day. I could probably rustle up a tweet placing him in a Tunisian harem at the time if that would ease your mind?

[bfcmik]

No details of the venue of the Christening, just lots of statements that it was a small, private service. The allegation is that he went to Perugia and had the service there.

[AndrewJB]

Wow. There are people on here who think the PM can "slip away" for a few days unnoticed.

How do you think he does this? Take a quick EasyJet flight to to Venice? Tells all his security staff to look away constantly?

This is as credible as the much repeated and disgraceful claims on this site against Ted Heath etc that have since been proven to be complete fantasy.

He went to Italy (flying into Perugia) to visit a Russian oligarch without his bodyguards when Foreign Secretary. He’s also given the son of that oligarch a seat in the House of Lords. And he’s well known for lying. Not really that surprising that people were willing to believe the story.

[dsr]

No details of the venue of the Christening, just lots of statements that it was a small, private service. The allegation is that he went to Perugia and had the service there.

By "no details of the venue of the Christening", do you mean "although the venue of Westminster Cathedral has been confirmed by the Johnsons and by Westminster Cathedral authorities, I prefer to ignore the evidence because I don't like the Prime Minister"?

[bfcmik]

By "no details of the venue of the Christening", do you mean "although the venue of Westminster Cathedral has been confirmed by the Johnsons and by Westminster Cathedral authorities, I prefer to ignore the evidence because I don't like the Prime Minister"?

Given that was only published by the Daily Mail early this morning I think I can be excused. Personally, I couldn't really give a monkey's whether he jetted off to his Russian mate's house for a bit more 'graft planning'. Nothing he could do could make me feel any more or less contemptuous of him. Whatever I think of him isn't going to make him lose any sleep nor make him or his mates loot £1 less from this country.

[Burnley Ace]

He went to Italy (flying into Perugia) to visit a Russian oligarch without his bodyguards when Foreign Secretary. He’s also given the son of that oligarch a seat in the House of Lords. And he’s well known for lying. Not really that surprising that people were willing to believe the story.

Who believed it? It was just more lies being spread and repeated by Labour supporters. This is the story https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... italy-trip

It’s the same tactic as Cummings - keep repeating it, try and keep a non story going, hope it just becomes part of a back story.

[martin_p]

Wow. There are people on here who think the PM can "slip away" for a few days unnoticed.

How do you think he does this? Take a quick EasyJet flight to to Venice? Tells all his security staff to look away constantly?

This is as credible as the much repeated and disgraceful claims on this site against Ted Heath etc that have since been proven to be complete fantasy.

He did it in 2018 while Foreign Secretary and supposedly under a 24/7 security detail, there are photos of him at the airport. So why isn’t it credible he could do it again?

Besides, no one said he didn’t have security this time anyway did they? My ‘slip away unnoticed’ comment was in relation to the media/public in so much as he seems to avoid both far more than any PM I can remember.

[Rowls]

[martin_p]

So you don’t believe he did it in 2018?

And again, you’re twisting what I said, I’ve explicitly said I don’t think it likely. But would it be possible? We’ll yes, history shows us that.

[Rowls]

Have a good day lads.

[Devils_Advocate]

I've no evidence that you would consider reliable. It was reported at the time in the Mirror, Mail, Telegraph, Sun, Metro, Express, just to take the first page of a google search. And the photos could have been taken on antother day. I could probably rustle up a tweet placing him in a Tunisian harem at the time if that would ease your mind?

Your taking a very strange attitude on this towards me. I haven't claimed Johnson went to Italy, Ive said there is no onus on him to prove he wasnt there and ive said on the balance of info we know I do not think he was there. The only thing I have challenged is someone claiming it has been totally proved he wasnt there.

[martin_p]

Your taking a very strange attitude on this towards me. I haven't claimed Johnson went to Italy, Ive said there is no onus on him to prove he wasnt there and ive said on the balance of info we know I do not think he was there. The only thing I have challenged is someone claiming it has been totally proved he wasnt there.

Someone must’ve sounded the ‘someone’s attacking the PM!’ alarm. The over the tops levels of defensiveness from some have become a reflex action that can look a bit silly when there’s no real accusations being made.

[aggi]

All a bit of a strange one, particularly the way it conveniently folded itself around available facts (somewhere with history of him disappearing to, cancelled appointment, christening with no publicity, etc). I saw someone suggesting it was planted by Cummings to discredit the media and give them something to point at when a story they do want to deny comes out but that seems pretty tinfoil hat. Cock-up seems much more likely than conspiracy.

On a separate note, I hope Rowls has sorted out his banking arrangements. https://www.theguardian.com/money/2020/ ... ays-brexit

[martin_p]

All a bit of a strange one, particularly the way it conveniently folded itself around available facts (somewhere with history of him disappearing to, cancelled appointment, christening with no publicity, etc). I saw someone suggesting it was planted by Cummings to discredit the media and give them something to point at when a story they do want to deny comes out but that seems pretty tinfoil hat. Cock-up seems much more likely than conspiracy.

On a separate note, I hope Rowls has sorted out his banking arrangements. https://www.theguardian.com/money/2020/ ... ays-brexit

Don’t worry, dsr will be along soon to tell us this isn’t happening.

[Devils_Advocate]

Don’t worry, dsr will be along soon to tell us this isn’t happening.

Until 2 weeks later when the govt says it is happening but that its all the fault of the EU not playing fair

[dsr]

Don’t worry, dsr will be along soon to tell us this isn’t happening.

I was just about to post "don't worry, martinp will be along soon to add an unpleasant, sneering post that adds nothing to the discussion" when you beat me to it.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

All a bit of a strange one, particularly the way it conveniently folded itself around available facts (somewhere with history of him disappearing to, cancelled appointment, christening with no publicity, etc). I saw someone suggesting it was planted by Cummings to discredit the media and give them something to point at when a story they do want to deny comes out but that seems pretty tinfoil hat. Cock-up seems much more likely than conspiracy.

On a separate note, I hope Rowls has sorted out his banking arrangements. https://www.theguardian.com/money/2020/ ... ays-brexit

There are people living outside of the EU/UK who still have English Bank accounts, why haven't theirs been closed down?

[dsr]

There are people living outside of the EU/UK who still have English Bank accounts, why haven't theirs been closed down?

The EU is more protectionist than most and one way they find to "support" their own banks (and other industries) is to put obstacles in the way of the competition.

[martin_p]

I was just about to post "don't worry, martinp will be along soon to add an unpleasant, sneering post that adds nothing to the discussion" when you beat me to it.

I’d say that you coming along to tell us that the experts are wrong when it comes to the negative impact of Brexit is a fairly accurate characterisation. Why is it unpleasant?

[KateR]

project fear alive and well, sticking with these pearls of wisdom, love it.

[dsr]

I’d say that you coming along to tell us that the experts are wrong when it comes to the negative impact of Brexit is a fairly accurate characterisation. Why is it unpleasant?

It's unpleasant because your whole attitude is to sneer. Not to respect the other person's point of view even if you disagree, but to make snide sideways comments that are irrelevant to the discussion and whose only purpose is to say "look at me".

If you disagree, tell me what your comment about "dsr will be along ..." added to the discussion, and what about it was your idea of pleasant. Or even civil.

[martin_p]

It's unpleasant because your whole attitude is to sneer. Not to respect the other person's point of view even if you disagree, but to make snide sideways comments that are irrelevant to the discussion and whose only purpose is to say "look at me".

If you disagree, tell me what your comment about "dsr will be along ..." added to the discussion, and what about it was your idea of pleasant. Or even civil.

It didn’t, it was a joke! Lighten up for gods sake.

[aggi]

project fear alive and well, sticking with these pearls of wisdom, love it.

Does it count as project fear if it's actually happening. Surely that's project reality.

[KateR]

Does it count as project fear if it's actually happening. Surely that's project reality.

I suppose a lot depends on your experience and beliefs in terms of, do you really believe this will happen.

I am not saying it is fake, that is something else, when we know problems exist we usually solve them, I have been traveling and living in numerous countries around the world. I have had to transfer and arrange funds back in the UK from far more challenging places than any of the EU countries. I have never had an issue with my UK or US credit cards anywhere in the world except when I forgot to tell them I was travelling somewhere, quick call resolved that issue.

I personally therefore believe, it's just another link to cause "fear" and will not be an issue, of course I have been wrong before, but I don't think I am on this one but willing to wait and see. Just an opinion as always.

[martin_p]

I suppose a lot depends on your experience and beliefs in terms of, do you really believe this will happen.

I am not saying it is fake, that is something else, when we know problems exist we usually solve them, I have been traveling and living in numerous countries around the world. I have had to transfer and arrange funds back in the UK from far more challenging places than any of the EU countries. I have never had an issue with my UK or US credit cards anywhere in the world except when I forgot to tell them I was travelling somewhere, quick call resolved that issue.

I personally therefore believe, it's just another link to cause "fear" and will not be an issue, of course I have been wrong before, but I don't think I am on this one but willing to wait and see. Just an opinion as always.

What would Lloyds and Barclays motive be for creating this ‘fear’. And given it doesn’t impact anyone resident in the U.K. and only (according to the article) 13,000 brits abroad, it’s not exactly a game changer is it?

[KateR]

What would Lloyds and Barclays motive be for creating this ‘fear’. And given it doesn’t impact anyone resident in the U.K. and only (according to the article) 13,000 brits abroad, it’s not exactly a game changer is it?

no it's not, we agree, they as banks were advising customers, it being posted on here is part of the so called justification to show problems warts and all as we move through numerous deals with the EU and others, so we can agree, waste of time and meaningless link posted on this thread, always nice when we can agree.

[martin_p]

no it's not, we agree, they as banks were advising customers, it being posted on here is part of the so called justification to show problems warts and all as we move through numerous deals with the EU and others, so we can agree, waste of time and meaningless link posted on this thread, always nice when we can agree.

No, it’s a small thing but I think it’s a good demonstration that the problems of leaving the EU, especially without a deal, are real.