Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

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aggi
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by aggi » Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:56 am

Talks to be extended another month or so
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... by-a-month

Hopefully if no deal does happen it won't be at the last minute as that would make preparations very difficult.

JohnMcGreal
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by JohnMcGreal » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:08 am

Those who thought it was just Barnier and the Commission who were being tough and difficult might be in for a bit of a shock.

Heads of EU member states are driving a hard line on his negotiating mandate.

https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1169871/

KateR
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by KateR » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:36 pm

completely opposite to what I read yesterday regarding landlocked EU countries interjecting the fisheries were a small part of the deal and that the negotiations should soften to ensure there is not a no deal, with particular emphasis on the French.

Yet all will be revealed in the not to distant future.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by tiger76 » Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:39 pm

Well well this is a turn up for the books.

Cambridge Analytica 'not involved' in Brexit referendum, says watchdog https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54457407

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:42 pm

That's gonna be awkward for a few on here who were frothing at the mouth whilst adamantly declaring that the vote was rigged etc.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by KateR » Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:50 pm

business as usual me thinks.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by claretandy » Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:31 am

tiger76 wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:39 pm
Well well this is a turn up for the books.

Cambridge Analytica 'not involved' in Brexit referendum, says watchdog https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54457407
Carole Cadwalladr and James O'Brien have been strangely silent about this ....

aggi
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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by aggi » Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:48 am

Another example of Brexit creating jobs
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... congestion

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by AndrewJB » Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:00 am

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... -democracy

This is Cadwalladr’s article on the subject. The raid on Cambridge Analytica took place a year later. If I accused you of data mining Facebook, and running algorithms on servers at your house to be able to target an electorate with advertising; how quickly could you make that data disappear? In ten minutes a pile of hard drives could be smashed to pieces with a sledgehammer, and within a few more hours could be residing at the bottom of a deep lake. The investigation found no substantial evidence that CA worked on the brexit campaign, but we do know Facebook’s data was mined by one or more groups (they weren’t fined just for fun), and Cummings is on record as having said the vote was won because a tiny percentage of people were hit with advertising on social media.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/dom ... as-won/amp

The report highlights major issues with our democracy and the potential to subvert it, but you’re fixating on the single point that no substantive evidence was found to link CA to the brexit referendum in a search carried out two years after the referendum?

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:46 am

Hey, your side fixated on their claim that CA did something to skew the result of the referendum, that drum was battered for a good while in an effort to get the result turned over.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by AndrewJB » Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:14 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:46 am
Hey, your side fixated on their claim that CA did something to skew the result of the referendum, that drum was battered for a good while in an effort to get the result turned over.
Finding no evidence isn't the same thing as completely exonerating them - especially as the investigation took place two years after the referendum. Read Cadwalladr's article. She spoke with numerous people who worked at CA.

This article goes some way to illustrate how foreign money can deform our democracy:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -integrity

The article goes back three years, and I can tell you now nothing has been done by the government to prevent such abuses.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:10 pm

Just read it now.

Interesting that it only highlights the leave sides antics with CA and not what remain/Labour did.

Modern times require updates to all sorts of laws and regulations, however as per usual politicians/civil servants are slow to adapt and catch up.

I doubt much will change when someone replaces the Tories.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by aggi » Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:31 pm

aggi wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:56 am
Talks to be extended another month or so
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... by-a-month

Hopefully if no deal does happen it won't be at the last minute as that would make preparations very difficult.
Looks like when Johnson said "If we can’t agree by then, then I do not see that there will be a free-trade agreement between us, and we should both accept that and move on," he meant "well possibly we'll end talks but possibly we won't".

All this hyperbole from Johnson really does get a bit boring. You've got to wonder how gullible he believes the electorate are.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by JohnMcGreal » Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:54 pm

Is this the third or fourth time that Johnson has self-imposed a deadline with threats to walk away, before backing down and carrying on regardless? I'm losing track.

This nonsense was from the end of February:

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/arti ... r-he-walks

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by KateR » Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:10 pm

:lol: Just to be clear, that's for the last two comments, laughable

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by martin_p » Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:12 pm

JohnMcGreal wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:54 pm
Is this the third or fourth time that Johnson has self-imposed a deadline with threats to walk away, before backing down and carrying on regardless? I'm losing track.

This nonsense was from the end of February:

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/arti ... r-he-walks
This’ll all be the fault of remoaners no doubt.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by martin_p » Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:13 pm

KateR wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:10 pm
:lol: Just to be clear, that's for the last two comments, laughable
I don’t understand what you’re laughing at.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by Greenmile » Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:17 pm

martin_p wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:13 pm
I don’t understand what you’re laughing at.
She’s laughing at any criticism of BJ and the Tories - it’s easier to do than attempting to defend him against that criticism.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by nil_desperandum » Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:33 pm

Greenmile wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:17 pm
She’s laughing at any criticism of BJ and the Tories - it’s easier to do than attempting to defend him against that criticism.
I assumed she was laughing at Johnson. If not she should be, but it's getting a bit too serious to have clown like him, (surrounded by a circus), in charge.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by claretandy » Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:46 pm

aggi wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:31 pm
Looks like when Johnson said "If we can’t agree by then, then I do not see that there will be a free-trade agreement between us, and we should both accept that and move on," he meant "well possibly we'll end talks but possibly we won't".

All this hyperbole from Johnson really does get a bit boring. You've got to wonder how gullible he believes the electorate are.
They must be close to a deal if they've agreed to extend.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by KateR » Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:56 pm

I'll try to explain why I am laughing but I doubt it will do any good, many of you seem to think it's like going to buy a car and negotiating rather than having any inkling as to what real heavy negotiations entail, you simply come across as if it's saying something at that you must absolutely mean what you say. If that had been the case both parties would have walked weeks ago, when the UK/BJ take a position and say they move, then follow it up weeks/months later and say no sorry this is it, we might as well walk. What do you think might happen if the EU say, well, no not yet let's go back, why don't we extend a month, should the UK/JB position be no, bugger it, I've had enough, or should they consider it and say, well ok but we are not changing position, we can extend but no further?

I am in no way shape or form saying that is what happened, but it certainly is a what if scenario, something has triggered this move and it could very well be that they are really close and the extension will provide the result everyone wants in terms of an agreement versus no agreement.

Yet the usual suspects, which I highlighted months ago are here, complaining and will dole out the usual lines, he's a serial liar, cant be trusted, dithering, etc.

I will also say again I expect the 31 December date to be extended.

I'm pretty sure I have wasted my time and the resident negotiating experts will be along to attack very shortly, knock yourselves out, or just take a couple of seconds to think about it first.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by Greenmile » Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:57 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:33 pm
I assumed she was laughing at Johnson. If not she should be, but it's getting a bit too serious to have clown like him, (surrounded by a circus), in charge.
There’s no way Kate would laugh at Johnson. She spends half her time on here defending him, usually with the brilliant observation that it’s “boring” when people point out his rank dishonesty.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by martin_p » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:07 pm

KateR wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:56 pm
I'll try to explain why I am laughing but I doubt it will do any good, many of you seem to think it's like going to buy a car and negotiating rather than having any inkling as to what real heavy negotiations entail, you simply come across as if it's saying something at that you must absolutely mean what you say. If that had been the case both parties would have walked weeks ago, when the UK/BJ take a position and say they move, then follow it up weeks/months later and say no sorry this is it, we might as well walk. What do you think might happen if the EU say, well, no not yet let's go back, why don't we extend a month, should the UK/JB position be no, bugger it, I've had enough, or should they consider it and say, well ok but we are not changing position, we can extend but no further?

I am in no way shape or form saying that is what happened, but it certainly is a what if scenario, something has triggered this move and it could very well be that they are really close and the extension will provide the result everyone wants in terms of an agreement versus no agreement.

Yet the usual suspects, which I highlighted months ago are here, complaining and will dole out the usual lines, he's a serial liar, cant be trusted, dithering, etc.

I will also say again I expect the 31 December date to be extended.

I'm pretty sure I have wasted my time and the resident negotiating experts will be along to attack very shortly, knock yourselves out, or just take a couple of seconds to think about it first.
So which part of the negotiating manual suggests that making a threat you don’t act upon then making more threats of the same nature is a successful tactic? Johnson makes one of his ‘we’ll walk away’ threats and his Brexit loving public lap it up, we’ve got to have that option’, ‘it’s the only way they’ll know we’re serious’. But time and time again deadlines pass and the threatened action doesn’t materialise and the EU don’t crumble and give us everything we want. The people you should be aiming your laughter at are the ones that think Johnson ‘tough stance’ cuts any ice with the EU and that somehow his threats of walking away are more credible than May’s ‘no deal is better than a bad deal’ rhetoric. The EU know we won’t walk away before every possible negotiating minute is exhausted so why does the government keep pretending it will and why do Johnson’s cheerleaders continue to buy it?
Last edited by martin_p on Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by aggi » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:09 pm

KateR wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:56 pm
I'll try to explain why I am laughing but I doubt it will do any good, many of you seem to think it's like going to buy a car and negotiating rather than having any inkling as to what real heavy negotiations entail, you simply come across as if it's saying something at that you must absolutely mean what you say. If that had been the case both parties would have walked weeks ago, when the UK/BJ take a position and say they move, then follow it up weeks/months later and say no sorry this is it, we might as well walk. What do you think might happen if the EU say, well, no not yet let's go back, why don't we extend a month, should the UK/JB position be no, bugger it, I've had enough, or should they consider it and say, well ok but we are not changing position, we can extend but no further?

I am in no way shape or form saying that is what happened, but it certainly is a what if scenario, something has triggered this move and it could very well be that they are really close and the extension will provide the result everyone wants in terms of an agreement versus no agreement.

Yet the usual suspects, which I highlighted months ago are here, complaining and will dole out the usual lines, he's a serial liar, cant be trusted, dithering, etc.

I will also say again I expect the 31 December date to be extended.

I'm pretty sure I have wasted my time and the resident negotiating experts will be along to attack very shortly, knock yourselves out, or just take a couple of seconds to think about it first.
The problem with this scenario is that it loses its effectiveness when it is used every single time. Johnson's only tactic is hyperbole (dead in a ditch if Brexit doesn't happen, world-beating track and trace, multiple absolute deadlines for negotiations, etc).

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by KateR » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:09 pm

Greenmile wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:57 pm
There’s no way Kate would laugh at Johnson. She spends half her time on here defending him, usually with the brilliant observation that it’s “boring” when people point out his rank dishonesty.
I don't defend anyone including BJ/Tories & Trump UNLESS the usual clique are out in force tell there own versions of events, but usually not there own, just what the the little red book now known as the Guardian has to say, but when you are so far entrenched in to your own beliefs then that's ok to most of you. As I said waste of time trying to debate because you've all made your minds up and you never listen except to try and belittle other peoples opinion and of course through a few insinuations in like you must be that or the other if you don't believe in what I am saying.

I have said many times BJ lies so why even bring that into the conversation, or did you conveniently forget that, like you do so many times!

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by aggi » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:10 pm

claretandy wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:46 pm
They must be close to a deal if they've agreed to extend.
Let's hope so, although it's happened so many times so far that I wouldn't bet on it.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by Greenmile » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:12 pm

KateR wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:09 pm
.... As I said waste of time trying to debate because you've all made your minds up and you never listen except to try and belittle other peoples opinion...
You say this a lot, and yet here you are, trying to debate (and defending Johnson again).

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by Greenmile » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:14 pm

KateR wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:09 pm
...I have said many times BJ lies so why even bring that into the conversation, or did you conveniently forget that, like you do so many times!
Because every time you say something along the lines of “We know he lies. Stop pointing it out. It’s boring.”

It’s just another (very weak) attempt at defending him. You can’t justify the lies, so you demand everyone stops talking about them. You’re doing it again here with your “why bring it into the conversation”. It’s part of the conversation - it’s why his crappy negotiation tactic is so poor, because nobody believes his threats any more.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by AndrewJB » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:18 pm

Cummings and his family built two properties without planning permission, and are no being let off the £50k council tax bill. Would that happen to anyone else in this country?

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by martin_p » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:22 pm

AndrewJB wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:18 pm
Cummings and his family built two properties without planning permission, and are no being let off the £50k council tax bill. Would that happen to anyone else in this country?
Can’t a man build a house so his child has somewhere to live (apart from his other home). You seem to be completely ignoring the poor child’s welfare here! Everyone knows a child’s welfare trumps the law/safety of others/following guidance every time.
This user liked this post: Greenmile

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by Burnley Ace » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:28 pm

AndrewJB wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:18 pm
Cummings and his family built two properties without planning permission, and are no being let off the £50k council tax bill. Would that happen to anyone else in this country?
Have you never heard of retrospective planning permission? It’s not uncommon.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by martin_p » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:40 pm

Burnley Ace wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:28 pm
Have you never heard of retrospective planning permission? It’s not uncommon.
I think it’s more the letting off from the £50k tax bill that people might take issue with.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by KateR » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:52 pm

aggi wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:09 pm
The problem with this scenario is that it loses its effectiveness when it is used every single time. Johnson's only tactic is hyperbole (dead in a ditch if Brexit doesn't happen, world-beating track and trace, multiple absolute deadlines for negotiations, etc).
yes I can understand that and have no argument with it, we would all like to be right every time, first time, but you know it simply does not work like that, we (well I don't at this moment) don't know if the UK or the EU asked for the delay. Yet what we do know, is that from the UK position it is that we are willing to leave without a decision and that it has been said/highlighted that we can't wait until December for that decision, whether we like that or not is irrelevant in terms of whether we like or not but I would have thought the vast majority could agree that we can't wait for that to happen in December. Similarly I would have thought the vast majority would think, we should not be to hasty in pulling out just for the sake of it because a date was given months ago, surely it's negotiating tactics 101.

You can definitely apply the same to the EU stance, but the one difference I think which is important is that the UK team only have to satisfy themselves, where as the EU have 27 members to satisfy, is it a simple majority, 14 must agree or is it the 27 must agree, are the landlocked countries going to lose out by not having a deal to satisfy France/coastal country members?

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by AndyClaret » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:00 pm

aggi wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:10 pm
Let's hope so, although it's happened so many times so far that I wouldn't bet on it.
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/13163 ... 94311?s=19

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by martin_p » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:01 pm

With just eleven weeks to go until the new year it’s time for the government to admit they’ve failed and finally let businesses know what the rules for trade/food standards, etc will be from 1st January.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by KateR » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:05 pm

Greenmile wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:14 pm
Because every time you say something along the lines of “We know he lies. Stop pointing it out. It’s boring.”

It’s just another (very weak) attempt at defending him. You can’t justify the lies, so you demand everyone stops talking about them. You’re doing it again here with your “why bring it into the conversation”. It’s part of the conversation - it’s why his crappy negotiation tactic is so poor, because nobody believes his threats any more.
you forgot to say IMO, I don't agree with your statement for a nano second and whats more important, neither do the EU, or they would not agree to an extension. Very clearly, I believe your argument is extremely weak and is totally irrelevant as the extension is happening but knock yourself out continuing this line of thought.

How is it a conversation or a debate when every single person here and in the country knows he lies, the more pertinent question is does he lie about absolutely everything, and then the answer is no as far as I am concerned, yet your rationale (and others) in this is that, yes he does, in my opinion that is a very dangerous assumption.

It's like when we discuss football, should we all say on every thread, I am a Burnley supporter, it would be redundant and boring and convey nothing to a conversation or debate, absolutely zero.

If you wish to use this as part of your back up, knock yourself out, I have made my position crystal clear, as you have demonstrated for all to see, thank you.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by martin_p » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:14 pm

KateR wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:05 pm
you forgot to say IMO, I don't agree with your statement for a nano second and whats more important, neither do the EU, or they would not agree to an extension. Very clearly, I believe your argument is extremely weak and is totally irrelevant as the extension is happening but knock yourself out continuing this line of thought.

How is it a conversation or a debate when every single person here and in the country knows he lies, the more pertinent question is does he lie about absolutely everything, and then the answer is no as far as I am concerned, yet your rationale (and others) in this is that, yes he does, in my opinion that is a very dangerous assumption.

It's like when we discuss football, should we all say on every thread, I am a Burnley supporter, it would be redundant and boring and convey nothing to a conversation or debate, absolutely zero.

If you wish to use this as part of your back up, knock yourself out, I have made my position crystal clear, as you have demonstrated for all to see, thank you.
No one has said he lies all the time (although I’d definitely check my watch if he told me the time) just that he does it a lot, more than any PM in my lifetime. If he was just using these lies in negotiations with foreign powers to try and get a better deal for the country I’d have less of an issue, but it’s the fact he lies to parliament and the public. He knows full well that a majority of the public don’t care enough to check out what he’s saying so his lies become facts in the eyes of many. They’re lies that have left the country more angry and fragmented than in many, many years.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by KateR » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:15 pm

martin_p wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:01 pm
With just eleven weeks to go until the new year it’s time for the government to admit they’ve failed and finally let businesses know what the rules for trade/food standards, etc will be from 1st January.
is that a euphemism for the UK should just do what the EU want or is that you saying the UK should walk away from a deal now and go WTO, let every business know? Do you really believe the 1st of Jan date, your convinced it will be then or could it just be another lie (read negotiating tactic) and it will be extended.

By the way, welcome back, believe it or not I was actually wondering if you were ill and of course given the environment we all live in, perhaps very ill, or put another way, you were conspicuous in your absence :)

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by KateR » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:19 pm

martin_p wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:14 pm
No one has said he lies all the time (although I’d definitely check my watch if he told me the time) just that he does it a lot, more than any PM in my lifetime. If he was just using these lies in negotiations with foreign powers to try and get a better deal for the country I’d have less of an issue, but it’s the fact he lies to parliament and the public. He knows full well that a majority of the public don’t care enough to check out what he’s saying so his lies become facts in the eyes of many. They’re lies that have left the country more angry and fragmented than in many, many years.
I can agree with the majority of that, except the last sentence, I think the country was more angry in the months leading up to the GE, but that is only my opinion.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by martin_p » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:23 pm

KateR wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:15 pm
is that a euphemism for the UK should just do what the EU want or is that you saying the UK should walk away from a deal now and go WTO, let every business know? Do you really believe the 1st of Jan date, your convinced it will be then or could it just be another lie (read negotiating tactic) and it will be extended.

By the way, welcome back, believe it or not I was actually wondering if you were ill and of course given the environment we all live in, perhaps very ill, or put another way, you were conspicuous in your absence :)
Johnson has pretty much nowhere to turn when it comes to 1st January, it’d be political suicide for him to delay the end of transition as he’s staked so much on ‘getting Brexit done’ so I don’t believe that’s a course of action he’d take. So that being said it really is getting too late in the day for continuing the uncertainty and it needs to end one way or another.

Thanks for the concern by the way, I’m fine.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by KateR » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:29 pm

martin_p wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:23 pm
Johnson has pretty much nowhere to turn when it comes to 1st January, it’d be political suicide for him to delay the end of transition as he’s staked so much on ‘getting Brexit done’ so I don’t believe that’s a course of action he’d take. So that being said it really is getting too late in the day for continuing the uncertainty and it needs to end one way or another.

Thanks for the concern by the way, I’m fine.
as usual we sit on opposite sides of the coin, I think the 1st of Jan will be delayed, even out as far as 31 March. It's what I see, doesn't mean it will.

It's an easy rationale for me:
close to a deal now, if the deal happens he will point to the delay in this round of agreements and say in the interests of everyone we need to extend.
if we don't get a deal in this extension he will point to the same delay, say in the interests of everyone, extension in order to get the WTO in place.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by martin_p » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:34 pm

KateR wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:29 pm
as usual we sit on opposite sides of the coin, I think the 1st of Jan will be delayed, even out as far as 31 March. It's what I see, doesn't mean it will.

It's an easy rationale for me:
close to a deal now, if the deal happens he will point to the delay in this round of agreements and say in the interests of everyone we need to extend.
if we don't get a deal in this extension he will point to the same delay, say in the interests of everyone, extension in order to get the WTO in place.
I think it would be such a betrayal of what he based his election on that he just won’t go there.

And your last scenario there assumes that the EU will agree to extend transition just so we can get ready for WTO. I don’t think us not being ready will be a big concern for them (as they seem to have been ready for a long time now) so won’t happen either.
This user liked this post: KateR

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by AndrewJB » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:59 pm

Burnley Ace wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:28 pm
Have you never heard of retrospective planning permission? It’s not uncommon.
Fifty thousand quid handed to him by the denizens of Durham County. Not bad if you can swing it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42098645

Meanwhile, ordinary working people face prison (and this article is from before the pandemic reduced everyone’s incomes).

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by aggi » Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:28 pm

I believe we'll probably end up with a deal or another extension (that isn't called an extension). It won't be very good but it will be spun as having brokered some great concessions (that gradually turns out not to be the case when no-one is paying attention).

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by Burnley Ace » Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:35 pm

AndrewJB wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:59 pm
Fifty thousand quid handed to him by the denizens of Durham County. Not bad if you can swing it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42098645

Meanwhile, ordinary working people face prison (and this article is from before the pandemic reduced everyone’s incomes).
He’s not been handed £50k, in fact it’s got nothing to do with him as it’s his father’s property. You always seem to stumble on the facts.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by aggi » Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:02 pm

Burnley Ace wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:35 pm
He’s not been handed £50k, in fact it’s got nothing to do with him as it’s his father’s property. You always seem to stumble on the facts.
Hmm "The senior adviser to Boris Johnson is listed as a property owner, alongside his parents and sister, according to Land Registry title deeds."

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by AndrewJB » Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:09 pm

Burnley Ace wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:35 pm
He’s not been handed £50k, in fact it’s got nothing to do with him as it’s his father’s property. You always seem to stumble on the facts.
I don’t know the breakdown of how much he owes as owner of the cottage, and how much his sister owes, etc, but if I owed part of a £50k tax bill that is forgiven, then that’s like being handed the money. Ordinary working people can be sent to jail for non payment of council tax, but not magic Dom.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by AndrewJB » Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:13 pm

AndrewJB wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:09 pm
I don’t know the breakdown of how much he owes as owner of the cottage, and how much his sister owes, etc, but if I owed part of a £50k tax bill that is forgiven, then that’s like being handed the money. Ordinary working people can be sent to jail for non payment of council tax, but not magic Dom.
It also means that when he travelled to Durham during the lockdown, he was going to his second home, rather than “staying at a small property on the edge of his father’s estate” as he claimed. People were specifically told not to go to second homes.

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by Devils_Advocate » Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:18 pm

AndrewJB wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:13 pm
It also means that when he travelled to Durham during the lockdown, he was going to his second home, rather than “staying at a small property on the edge of his father’s estate” as he claimed. People were specifically told not to go to second homes.
This did come out at the time that it was a property in his name without planning permission. In the scheme of things it didn't touch the surface in terms of news headlines. I guess that's one of the advantages with being so corrupt and full of sh*t as there's only so much you can try and bring them to account to at one time

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Re: Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

Post by Burnley Ace » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:06 pm

AndrewJB wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:09 pm
I don’t know the breakdown of how much he owes as owner of the cottage, and how much his sister owes, etc, but if I owed part of a £50k tax bill that is forgiven, then that’s like being handed the money. Ordinary working people can be sent to jail for non payment of council tax, but not magic Dom.
Does he own the cottage? Have you seen the documents? What is his portion of this “made up” bill? If he does own it what would his discount be? Who has “forgiven” this bill? or is it a case that legally it can’t be enforced? People are sent to prison for wilful refusal not because they can’t pay.

If you don’t know the facts why are are you repeating a story that you can’t fact check?

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