Wow BJ eviscerates the EU!!!

[android]

Very important we get our quotes right.

Are you aware that a lot of your flip flop chart quotes are not contradictory? The Cummings ones for example are not even remotely contradictory. Your best bet looks like Farage but then 3 years is a long time in which a lot happened and a lot did not happen. Always seems to be the case that these lists/charts overstretch - Turtle used to do it all the time.

[PeterWilton]

I don't know who "they" are and I probably don't want to! As for how it's going... the "it" I have been discussing is only the signing of the oven ready withdrawal agreement. So it is not going it's gone! It was signed off by the EU and the UK in January and as a result we left on 31 January 2020. Conveying this simple fact has been extraordinarily difficult!

If you are asking how the next phase is going towards the future relationship then I simply do not know. It doesn't look too good at the moment but then Burnleyareback makes a good point that it is probably best to be patient and wait to see what happens beyond the posturing. But there isn't much time to play with.

That same oven ready withdrawal agreement they're going to abandon. So... was it undercooked or did they just leave the oven on too long?

[aggi]

We agree then. Oven-ready, signed, sealed and delivered. Not sure why we are celebrating it 9 months later though, as the next stage doesn't seem to be going too well...

The withdrawal agreement has been delivered? This is the second page of it:

STRESSING that the objective of this Agreement is to ensure an orderly withdrawal of the United Kingdom from the Union and Euratom
...
RESOLVED to ensure an orderly withdrawal through various separation provisions aiming to prevent disruption and to provide legal certainty to citizens and economic operators as well as to judicial and administrative authorities in the Union and in the United Kingdom

There's not much in the way of orderly withdrawal and legal certainty the the moment I wouldn't say.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

The withdrawal agreement has been delivered? This is the second page of it:

STRESSING that the objective of this Agreement is to ensure an orderly withdrawal of the United Kingdom from the Union and Euratom
...
RESOLVED to ensure an orderly withdrawal through various separation provisions aiming to prevent disruption and to provide legal certainty to citizens and economic operators as well as to judicial and administrative authorities in the Union and in the United Kingdom

There's not much in the way of orderly withdrawal and legal certainty the the moment I wouldn't say.

We are resolved, but equally so are the EU to getting what they want and not wanting to really negotiate much.

So that's why we've now been told to expect no deal, unfortunate, but necessary.

[Spiral]

Sid, the blueprint is the collapse of the USSR, the goal is a power grab. The reason no-deal is happening is because Johnson's gotv believes it can lay it at the doorstep of both the EU and coronavirus while the public is distracted with lockdown. The chaos is deliberate. It's a shame you and so many others bat for this govt when their only goal is to get you to put a tick in the box they want every few years before ripping you off as much as they can in the period in between, hoping you're distracted by some other manufactured b0llocks come the next election season. We're utterly screwed and it's the fault of everyone who voted for this, I'm sorry.

[JohnMcGreal]

Bearing in mind 'no deal' is not a permanent or sustainable way to deal with our biggest and closest trading partner, what state do these 'no dealers' think the UK will be in early next year when trying to negotiate better terms with the EU? Because we will be back at the table within months, make no mistake about that.

Do they think we'll be in a stronger negotiating position once we've got nothing left, and the country is on its knees?

When the EU are negotiating with a desperate party, will they become softer or harder in their approach? Will they drop these demands around fish, level playing field, governance etc, or will they demand even more from a country that is quite clearly desperate?

I don't understand their logic. Nothing gets easier for us once we're out with no deal. Everything gets much harder, and we'll be in an even weaker negotiating position.

I suspect Johnson and Co know this, but they're utterly incapable of being honest with their supporters, so they'd prefer to destroy the country instead of losing face.

[Spijed]

Bearing in mind 'no deal' is not a permanent or sustainable way to deal with our biggest and closest trading partner, what state do these 'no dealers' think the UK will be in early next year when trying to negotiate better terms with the EU? Because we will be back at the table within months, make no mistake about that.

Do they think we'll be in a stronger negotiating position once we've got nothing left, and the country is on its knees?

When the EU are negotiating with a desperate party, will they become softer or harder in their approach? Will they drop these demands around fish, level playing field, governance etc, or will they demand even more from a country that is quite clearly desperate?

I don't understand their logic. Nothing gets easier for us once we're out with no deal. Everything gets much harder, and we'll be in an even weaker negotiating position.

I suspect Johnson and Co know this, but they're utterly incapable of being honest with their supporters, so they'd prefer to destroy the country instead of losing face.

Good article in the Guardian about Johnson hoping (needs) a Trump win in the forthcoming election.

Seems that if Biden wins then it's going to be far easier for other parts of the Tory party to give BoJo and Dom the boot in the coming months due to the change in public mood about how they view the leadership, both here and across the Atlantic.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ent-labour

[Burnley Ace]

More Cummings semantics coming into play - 'No Deal' has become the 'Australian Deal' as it obviously sounds less scary.

Is it different from the Swiss deal, the Norwegian deal or the Canadian deal, all phrases I’m sure you are familiar with

[martin_p]

Is it different from the Swiss deal, the Norwegian deal or the Canadian deal, all phrases I’m sure you are familiar with

Yes, significantly.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Sid, the blueprint is the collapse of the USSR, the goal is a power grab. The reason no-deal is happening is because Johnson's gotv believes it can lay it at the doorstep of both the EU and coronavirus while the public is distracted with lockdown. The chaos is deliberate. It's a shame you and so many others bat for this govt when their only goal is to get you to put a tick in the box they want every few years before ripping you off as much as they can in the period in between, hoping you're distracted by some other manufactured b0llocks come the next election season. We're utterly screwed and it's the fault of everyone who voted for this, I'm sorry.

I'd like a deal, we all would.

However many of us also think that May and Davis spent their year's dicking around failing to get the job done and that's because they weren't being serious and kept extending etc.
If they'd drawn a line in the sand from the start and made it very clear that we would be out on x date with or without a deal then I'm pretty sure things would've moved along at a better pace.

Instead they allowed themselves to be pushed around, side tracked by other issues and generally did sod all to get a workable deal.

This current gov have drawn that line, but weren't left with enough time to get it done.
The EU have just assumed we'd carry on rolling over to have our tummy tickled like we did with May etc.

Assuming we leave without a deal it won't be permanent, negotiations will resume next year, of that I'm sure.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Bearing in mind 'no deal' is not a permanent or sustainable way to deal with our biggest and closest trading partner, what state do these 'no dealers' think the UK will be in early next year when trying to negotiate better terms with the EU? Because we will be back at the table within months, make no mistake about that.

Do they think we'll be in a stronger negotiating position once we've got nothing left, and the country is on its knees?

When the EU are negotiating with a desperate party, will they become softer or harder in their approach? Will they drop these demands around fish, level playing field, governance etc, or will they demand even more from a country that is quite clearly desperate?

I don't understand their logic. Nothing gets easier for us once we're out with no deal. Everything gets much harder, and we'll be in an even weaker negotiating position.

I suspect Johnson and Co know this, but they're utterly incapable of being honest with their supporters, so they'd prefer to destroy the country instead of losing face.

You're right, we will be negotiating next year.
However we won't be trying to rush through to meet the same deadline.
The EU will also be having to adjust to a no deal with us.

The EU may well make the same demands, we don't know.
We may have different demands, again we don't know.

What we do know is that it will be a different situation because the EU won't have access to the fisheries, we won't be under the control of the ECJ etc.
They'll come to the table wanting future access, that's a very different dynamic once they've lost it.

Bojo etc won't be destroying the country, you already know that, but you're being dramatic.

We've wasted years of negotiating thanks to May and Davies, so let's not keep pushing back the deadline, let's get serious about it instead.

[JohnMcGreal]

You're right, we will be negotiating next year.
However we won't be trying to rush through to meet the same deadline.
The EU will also be having to adjust to a no deal with us.

The EU may well make the same demands, we don't know.
We may have different demands, again we don't know.

What we do know is that it will be a different situation because the EU won't have access to the fisheries, we won't be under the control of the ECJ etc.
They'll come to the table wanting future access, that's a very different dynamic once they've lost it.

Bojo etc won't be destroying the country, you already know that, but you're being dramatic.

We've wasted years of negotiating thanks to May and Davies, so let's not keep pushing back the deadline, let's get serious about it instead.

Well, we do know that the EU will still want those key areas resolving. That much is obvious.

You're right that the dynamics will have changed once we're out on our arse, but the biggest and most dramatic change will be ours. The EU will have problems trading with us, but they can continue to trade freely within the bloc of 27 countries, and also around the world with their 50+ international arrangements. We will be starting from scratch, minus a few miniscule deals we've managed to cobble together on our own.

The arbitrary deadlines will have disappeared, but there will be a new time pressure on us to get something sorted very quickly. The time pressure created by shortages of goods, empty shelves in supermarkets, lorry queues miles long, the general public becoming more and more angry. So in reality, much, much worse than a deadline date set in a legal document. The pressure on our government to resolve these problems quickly will be severe.

These years of negotiations were only wasted in the sense that it was, and still is, impossible to deliver on the lofty claims made to voters in 2016. As soon as anything is written down on paper, it contradicts those claims, and it goes to ****. The Brexit that was sold to the electorate is undeliverable.

We've wasted over 4 years and christ knows how many resources on a policy that we know for a fact will make us poorer and weaker. The government's own impact assessments show this. It's been a period of complete insanity, and this is only the beginning. Things will get far worse yet.

[Spijed]

You're right, we will be negotiating next year.
However we won't be trying to rush through to meet the same deadline.
The EU will also be having to adjust to a no deal with us.

The EU may well make the same demands, we don't know.
We may have different demands, again we don't know.

What we do know is that it will be a different situation because the EU won't have access to the fisheries, we won't be under the control of the ECJ etc.
They'll come to the table wanting future access, that's a very different dynamic once they've lost it.

Bojo etc won't be destroying the country, you already know that, but you're being dramatic.

We've wasted years of negotiating thanks to May and Davies, so let's not keep pushing back the deadline, let's get serious about it instead.

You do realise that fishing makes little difference to the British economy and it's purely a token gesture with regards to negotiations.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Well, we do know that the EU will still want those key areas resolving. That much is obvious.

You're right that the dynamics will have changed once we're out on our arse, but the biggest and most dramatic change will be ours. The EU will have problems trading with us, but they can continue to trade freely within the bloc of 27 countries, and also around the world with their 50+ international arrangements. We will be starting from scratch, minus a few miniscule deals we've managed to cobble together on our own.

The arbitrary deadlines will have disappeared, but there will be a new time pressure on us to get something sorted very quickly. The time pressure created by shortages of goods, empty shelves in supermarkets, lorry queues miles long, the general public becoming more and more angry. So in reality, much, much worse than a deadline date set in a legal document. The pressure on our government to resolve these problems quickly will be severe.

These years of negotiations were only wasted in the sense that it was, and still is, impossible to deliver on the lofty claims made to voters in 2016. As soon as anything is written down on paper, it contradicts those claims, and it goes to ****. The Brexit that was sold to the electorate is undeliverable.

We've wasted over 4 years and christ knows how many resources on a policy that we know for a fact will make us poorer and weaker. The government's own impact assessments show this. It's been a period of complete insanity, and this is only the beginning. Things will get far worse yet.

It wasn't impossible to deliver a deal, the problem was we had soft idiots in charge who couldn't really be arsed to get a deal done, instead the flounced around trying to give the impression that they knew what they were doing and were trying their best when the reality was vastly different.

I doubt we will end up with empty shelves in the supermarkets, but you can predict that if you'd like.
We can and will still be able to ship in from the EU, just variations in prices etc
If that turns out to be aggravation then we have other areas of the world, one door closes, another opens etc.

We've been negotiating deals with the rest of the world for a while now, incase you'd failed to notice, because we are still going to operating as normal with the rest of the world.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

You do realise that fishing makes little difference to the British economy and it's purely a token gesture with regards to negotiations.

I'm aware, but the EU seem to be finding it a major sticking point.

[aggi]

It wasn't impossible to deliver a deal, the problem was we had soft idiots in charge who couldn't really be arsed to get a deal done, instead the flounced around trying to give the impression that they knew what they were doing and were trying their best when the reality was vastly different.

I doubt we will end up with empty shelves in the supermarkets, but you can predict that if you'd like.
We can and will still be able to ship in from the EU, just variations in prices etc
If that turns out to be aggravation then we have other areas of the world, one door closes, another opens etc.

We've been negotiating deals with the rest of the world for a while now, incase you'd failed to notice, because we are still going to operating as normal with the rest of the world.

The only difference between May and Johnson was that Johnson had a big enough majority to flick the v's at Northern Ireland. Johnson's deal was no "harder" than May's red lines.

[claretandy]

You do realise that fishing makes little difference to the British economy and it's purely a token gesture with regards to negotiations.

Tell that to the French.

[Spijed]

It wasn't impossible to deliver a deal, the problem was we had soft idiots in charge who couldn't really be arsed to get a deal done, instead the flounced around trying to give the impression that they knew what they were doing and were trying their best when the reality was vastly different.

I doubt we will end up with empty shelves in the supermarkets, but you can predict that if you'd like.
We can and will still be able to ship in from the EU, just variations in prices etc
If that turns out to be aggravation then we have other areas of the world, one door closes, another opens etc.

We've been negotiating deals with the rest of the world for a while now, incase you'd failed to notice, because we are still going to operating as normal with the rest of the world.

But how easy will it be to replace like for like everyday products?

If, for example, we imported baked beans from France we can hardly get the Japanese to suddenly supply boat loads for us can we?

People will not want to change eating habits and there will be a lot of resentment if they struggle to get food items that they take for granted.

[AndrewJB]

It wasn't impossible to deliver a deal, the problem was we had soft idiots in charge who couldn't really be arsed to get a deal done, instead the flounced around trying to give the impression that they knew what they were doing and were trying their best when the reality was vastly different.

I doubt we will end up with empty shelves in the supermarkets, but you can predict that if you'd like.
We can and will still be able to ship in from the EU, just variations in prices etc
If that turns out to be aggravation then we have other areas of the world, one door closes, another opens etc.

We've been negotiating deals with the rest of the world for a while now, incase you'd failed to notice, because we are still going to operating as normal with the rest of the world.

When we leave with no deal, the fifty or so trading arrangements we currently have with the rest of the world via the EU also end. It’s not as simple as opening another door because one has closed. The door that has closed is frictionless trade. We are putting up barriers where there were non. We don’t have a frictionless trade door to open.

[Burnley Ace]

You do realise that fishing makes little difference to the British economy and it's purely a token gesture with regards to negotiations.

How much difference does it make to the French economy? More importantly how much difference does it make to a country like Italy who stand to lose out because of French internal politics?

[Jakubclaret]

But how easy will it be to replace like for like everyday products?

If, for example, we imported baked beans from France we can hardly get the Japanese to suddenly supply boat loads for us can we?

People will not want to change eating habits and there will be a lot of resentment if they struggle to get food items that they take for granted.

Ever heard of adapt & diversify? The problems you've mentioned are nothing absolutely nothing, there's a killer virus on the loose & you are banging on about baked beans, wouldn't be so bad that particular example there's so much variety it's nothing niche, just more fear mongering like we've seen before with shortages, nothing happened then & nothing will happen in the future, a no deal will stimulate innovation & could potentially be 1 of best things that could ever happen to this country, fear not my friend.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

When we leave with no deal, the fifty or so trading arrangements we currently have with the rest of the world via the EU also end. It’s not as simple as opening another door because one has closed. The door that has closed is frictionless trade. We are putting up barriers where there were non. We don’t have a frictionless trade door to open.

We've been making new trade agreements all year..

We are going to be fully prepared to deal with the rest of the world.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Who have we got new deals with so far?

[Spiral]

a no deal will stimulate innovation & could potentially be 1 of best things that could ever happen to this country, fear not my friend.

Chop off your right hand, but alas, fear not my friend! Adapt, innovate, and learn to w@nk with your left! *inhales* Ruuuuuule Britannia!!!

[Jakubclaret]

Chop off your right hand, but alas, fear not my friend! Adapt, innovate, and learn to w@nk with your left! *inhales* Ruuuuuule Britannia!!!

Sorry, beg your pardon?

[evensteadiereddie]

[android]

The withdrawal agreement has been delivered? This is the second page of it:

STRESSING that the objective of this Agreement is to ensure an orderly withdrawal of the United Kingdom from the Union and Euratom
...
RESOLVED to ensure an orderly withdrawal through various separation provisions aiming to prevent disruption and to provide legal certainty to citizens and economic operators as well as to judicial and administrative authorities in the Union and in the United Kingdom

There's not much in the way of orderly withdrawal and legal certainty the the moment I wouldn't say.

Crikey aggi this is hard work. I didn't have you down as one of the fruit cakes who can never accept anything Tory under any circumstances.

If you want to argue that the deal was rubbish that's fine but I have made no comment on the merits of the deal.

I was simply pointing out the fact that the deal was "oven ready" pre-election and was duly delivered swiftly after the election, as promised. According to the EU website the withdrawal agreement was agreed in principle on 17 October 2019 (so the EU agree that it was "oven ready" pre-election) and it came into force on 1 February 2020. That deal was done whether you like it or not. It is just a simple matter of fact not opinion. What happens next is a different matter.

[android]

Johnson has already repudiated elements of the withdrawal agreement, which, if the term only referred to the withdrawal agreement, it was still supposed to be the basis for the ongoing relationship. So it was never “oven ready” and probably a lie from the outset.

See above

[KateR]

so those a few pages back and 2 or 3 days ago all the usual suspects talking the normal trash about BJ and not doing what he said regarding 15 Oct deadline are now all crying because he actually did what he said, doom and gloom rules for some, terrible way to live you're life in my opinion. Surely you realize the EU are still sending people next week, even though they have been told not to bother, unless they are willing to discuss something different regarding there stance on the two seemingly still sticking points. Seems there are quite a few here still stuck in the EU is great syndrome and the UK should just cave and accept the inevitable, otherwise we are all going to be doomed, but a few don't see that way.

Nothing has been decided yet, but maybe they understand how serious the UK is, I'm in the wait and see camp but applaud the UK for the stance they have taken, enjoy your weekend, much more to worry about IMO, have a beer, enjoy the football and above all stay safe.

[aggi]

Crikey aggi this is hard work. I didn't have you down as one of the fruit cakes who can never accept anything Tory under any circumstances.

If you want to argue that the deal was rubbish that's fine but I have made no comment on the merits of the deal.

I was simply pointing out the fact that the deal was "oven ready" pre-election and was duly delivered swiftly after the election, as promised. According to the EU website the withdrawal agreement was agreed in principle on 17 October 2019 (so the EU agree that it was "oven ready" pre-election) and it came into force on 1 February 2020. That deal was done whether you like it or not. It is just a simple matter of fact not opinion. What happens next is a different matter.

So would you say those things in the "oven ready" deal had been delivered? Do we have an orderly withdrawal and legal certainty?

[android]

So would you say those things in the "oven ready" deal had been delivered? Do we have an orderly withdrawal and legal certainty?

Yes, of course. I am 100% certain that we left the EU legally on 31 Jan / 1 Feb and in an orderly fashion, as had been promised.

Whether things remain orderly at the end of the transition period remains to be seen. But just about everyone in the country knew that this was subject to further negotiation after the oven ready withdrawal agreement was put into effect. If you still wish to dispute the point then I don't think there is anything more that I can add.

[tiger76]

Who have we got new deals with so far?

New deals there's really only Japan of the major economies, however we are rolling over some existing deals, and talks are ongoing with many countries regarding new deals, now whether they prove to be more lucrative then our existing EU membership was, I'm afraid nobody can answer that at present until we know all the details, and clearly to achieve those deals will have to make compromises on certain issues.

These links will no doubt explain it much better than I can.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47213842

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-trade-a ... -countries

[Spijed]

New deals there's really only Japan of the major economies, however we are rolling over some existing deals, and talks are ongoing with many countries regarding new deals, now whether they prove to be more lucrative then our existing EU membership was, I'm afraid nobody can answer that at present until we know all the details, and clearly to achieve those deals will have to make compromises on certain issues.

These links will no doubt explain it much better than I can.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47213842

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-trade-a ... -countries

Ivory Coast!!!

[Jakubclaret]

Yes, of course. I am 100% certain that we left the EU legally on 31 Jan / 1 Feb and in an orderly fashion, as had been promised.

Whether things remain orderly at the end of the transition period remains to be seen. But just about everyone in the country knew that this was subject to further negotiation after the oven ready withdrawal agreement was put into effect. If you still wish to dispute the point then I don't think there is anything more that I can add.

It's also worth mentioning had the referendum result been accepted honourably without disgruntled divisions hellbent on overturning democracy & still are the exit would have been far smoother & more orderly, the EU have been playing the remainers all along & creating a divide within the country & to be perfectly honest doing a cracking job of it.

[aggi]

Yes, of course. I am 100% certain that we left the EU legally on 31 Jan / 1 Feb and in an orderly fashion, as had been promised.

Whether things remain orderly at the end of the transition period remains to be seen. But just about everyone in the country knew that this was subject to further negotiation after the oven ready withdrawal agreement was put into effect. If you still wish to dispute the point then I don't think there is anything more that I can add.

If you read the withdrawal agreement (or oven-ready deal as it's also known) it's referring to the exit post-transition. Do you believe that's happening in an orderly manner with legal certainty?

[android]

If you read the withdrawal agreement (or oven-ready deal as it's also known) it's referring to the exit post-transition. Do you believe that's happening in an orderly manner with legal certainty?

You will have to find someone else to debate that question with aggi. It seems to me to be an area that is still high on posturing and speculation and low on facts - and life is too short.

I only came on to point put that the "oven ready" deal that the Tories promised to deliver (as per your photo / caption) was very obviously the withdrawal agreement and they did indeed get this signed off by the UK and EU parliaments and it came into force on 1 February. That's all. Goodnight.

[dougcollins]

I hate Shiraz.

[AndrewJB]

See above

You must know that the combination of “get brexit done” and “oven ready deal” led a lot of people to believe it was all finished if Johnson got in? We now know the deal he signed was something he was never going to keep to. He signed it in bad faith. That you would champion and defend such behaviour calls into question your opinions on honesty in politics. The main campaign promise, just a load of ********. But rather than showing any kind of appalled-ness at this, you’re showing everyone to the fine print. I’ve been accused of being a Corbyn cult member on here, but I’ve never (and never will) gone as far as you’ve done - defending the indefensible. You’re a Johnson cult member.

[Rileybobs]

It’s amazing that anyone can keep a straight face whilst defending the outcome of this. It’s usually best to just hold your hands up and admit you were wrong.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

You must know that the combination of “get brexit done” and “oven ready deal” led a lot of people to believe it was all finished if Johnson got in? We now know the deal he signed was something he was never going to keep to. He signed it in bad faith. That you would champion and defend such behaviour calls into question your opinions on honesty in politics. The main campaign promise, just a load of ********. But rather than showing any kind of appalled-ness at this, you’re showing everyone to the fine print. I’ve been accused of being a Corbyn cult member on here, but I’ve never (and never will) gone as far as you’ve done - defending the indefensible. You’re a Johnson cult member.

So are you having a whinge about people not understanding something or the government following its small print?

[RingoMcCartney]

I didn't attribute the quote to Liam Fox. I wasn't really quoting anybody at all, mainly because I couldn't remember which nutter came out with it.

Maybe because, in reality, no "nutter came out with it".

Convenient for you.......

[RingoMcCartney]

In the meantime, someone went into a Parisian playground and asked to be pointed out, " which one is he?"...

Recent poll.

SHOULD RELIGIOUS LAWS BE PRIOR TO THE LAWS OF THE (FRENCH) REPUBLIC?

40% of French muslims say "yes"

74% of them aged under 25

Source : IFOP

[dsr]

But how easy will it be to replace like for like everyday products?

If, for example, we imported baked beans from France we can hardly get the Japanese to suddenly supply boat loads for us can we?

People will not want to change eating habits and there will be a lot of resentment if they struggle to get food items that they take for granted.

I don't think that the average business in the EU is going to refuse to trade with us. The politicians may prefer that, but they can't legally make it happen.

There will be tariffs, and paperwork, just as there are in imports from our biggest single nation trading partner, the USA.

But if we can't get it from France, and it isn't practical to get it from anywhere else, then our newly unemployed will have to see if they can produce it themselves. Baked beans aren't so difficult; what other staple foodstuffs did you have in mind?

[RingoMcCartney]

Confidence in the UK economy would collapse over night, following a vote to leave.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... uk-economy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

David Cameron: "leave vote would be economic bomb for UK"

850 000 extra unemployed following a vote to leave.

Emergency budget. Osborne.

Possibly another emergency budget by Christmas - mark carney.

Stock market crash.

Siemens to leave.

Nissan to leave. They've since made the uk their European HQ!

Housing market crash.

Toyota to leave.

A "brexodous" of talent

NON OF IT HAPPENED.

#muggedoff

[RingoMcCartney]

"Alistair Darling: Brexit would risk collapse of confidence in UK economy"

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... uk-economy

And they believed it!

[dsr]

Well, we do know that the EU will still want those key areas resolving. That much is obvious.

The key areas being fishing and the role of the ECJ.

If we go back in the new year to negotiate again, there will be nothing to resolve. The EU did not need to resolve fishing rights before signing trade agreements with Japan and Canada, and they certainly didn't have to discuss how much influence the ECJ would have over Canadian and Japanese laws. If they continue to make those into sticking points, then it will be further evidence that they don't really want to deal.

[RingoMcCartney]

"Brexodus has begun. We EU nationals know staying on is too big a gamble"

Joris Luyendijk

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -uk-brexit

meanwhile, back in the real world.

EU net migration to the UK has fallen since the vote, but is still positive—more EU citizens are entering than leaving

https://fullfact.org/immigration/eu-citizens-brexodus/

[aggi]

The key areas being fishing and the role of the ECJ.

If we go back in the new year to negotiate again, there will be nothing to resolve. The EU did not need to resolve fishing rights before signing trade agreements with Japan and Canada, and they certainly didn't have to discuss how much influence the ECJ would have over Canadian and Japanese laws. If they continue to make those into sticking points, then it will be further evidence that they don't really want to deal.

So fishing rights weren't an issue with a country 4,000 miles away but are with a country 20 miles away. Would you like to hazard a guess why that is?

[AndrewJB]

We've been making new trade agreements all year..

We are going to be fully prepared to deal with the rest of the world.

We are about to leave a trading relationship to which 40% of our exports go. We have not, in all of the agreements we have reached, come near to replacing that. Our new trade agreements mostly continue existing trade we already had via the EU. So it doesn’t create, but protects existing trade. If we trade with the EU (our closest geographic partners) on WTO terms then we have to face competition from outside countries that have trade deals with the EU. Our 40% will get whittled down. How much by, I have no idea, but it will fall. We will have to pay more for things we import, because things from the EU will have tariffs on them, and things less expensive will only be so because the new tariffs on EU produce is more expensive (when before it had no tariff).

We are moving into a more expensive world.

[AndrewJB]

So are you having a whinge about people not understanding something or the government following its small print?

If you’re unable to understand when I’m describing a government acting in bad faith, then I’m not sure how to write more clearly.