Battle of Britain Day

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ElectroClaret
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Battle of Britain Day

Post by ElectroClaret » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:18 am

Today is the Eightieth anniversary of TBOB, commemorated on the 15th September every year.
On this date in 1940, huge waves of Luftwaffe bombers and fighters were repelled, 60 being shot
down, along with 26 RAF and Allied planes.

Lest we forget.
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Boss Hogg
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Re: Battle of Britain Day

Post by Boss Hogg » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:25 am

Pivotal moment in our history. Nobody would have the choice to complain about anything today if we hadn’t won. Most of the people complaining wouldn’t be here either. The alternative though doesn’t bear thinking about. Brave selfless men.

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Re: Battle of Britain Day

Post by karatekid » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:34 am

Every fighter plane we had was up in the air that day. Damn, that was close.

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Re: Battle of Britain Day

Post by NottsClaret » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:51 am

Boss Hogg wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:25 am
Pivotal moment in our history. Nobody would have the choice to complain about anything today if we hadn’t won.
Not sure about that. Pretty sure they still complain about stuff in France, Belgium, Poland etc.

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Re: Battle of Britain Day

Post by Boss Hogg » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:59 am

Without a Western Front and a country to launch it from France would still be occupied by Germans. They wouldn’t be complaining about anything today as per post.

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Re: Battle of Britain Day

Post by Dyched » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:56 pm

I love these types of threads. “Oohh good old British spirit, if it wasn’t for that generation blah blah”.

The reality is, if it wasn’t for the Americans and Russians we were ******. End of.

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Re: Battle of Britain Day

Post by tiger76 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:18 pm

Dyched wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:56 pm
I love these types of threads. “Oohh good old British spirit, if it wasn’t for that generation blah blah”.

The reality is, if it wasn’t for the Americans and Russians we were ******. End of.
It's worth mentioning the many commonwealth pilots that were involved in this campaign, and notably the Polish 303 squadron, who achieved a large success rate in shooting down 126 German fighter plans in just 42 days.

The key in turning the tide was Hitler looking east, and this allowed the Allies to regroup, but of course without the RAF repelling the Luftwaffe in the Summer of 1940, an invasion of Britain would have been imminent.

A couple of TV programmes tonight to view.

Flying for Britain with David Jason (8PM) ITV

The Battle of Britain (9PM) BBC One (I think this might be a repeat)
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Re: Battle of Britain Day

Post by martin_p » Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:19 pm

tiger76 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:18 pm
It's worth mentioning the many commonwealth pilots that were involved in this campaign, and notably the Polish 303 squadron, who achieved a large success rate in shooting down 126 German fighter plans in just 42 days.

The key in turning the tide was Hitler looking east, and this allowed the Allies to regroup, but of course without the RAF repelling the Luftwaffe in the Summer of 1940, an invasion of Britain would have been imminent.

A couple of TV programmes tonight to view.

Flying for Britain with David Jason (8PM) ITV

The Battle of Britain (9PM) BBC One (I think this might be a repeat)
Think I’ll tune into the beeb. Don’t need celebs with my history.

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Re: Battle of Britain Day

Post by box_of_frogs » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:14 pm

Dyched wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:56 pm
I love these types of threads. “Oohh good old British spirit, if it wasn’t for that generation blah blah”.

The reality is, if it wasn’t for the Americans and Russians we were ******. End of.
Please enlighten me as to what the Americans (other than a few ‘Eagle’ pilots) or the Russians, did for the country in the Battle of Britain?

Of course you do realise that had we lost this particular battle then we would have been invaded, and probably successfully?
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Re: Battle of Britain Day

Post by superdimitri » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:14 pm

Dyched wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:56 pm
The reality is, if it wasn’t for the Americans and Russians we were ******. End of.
No shame in that, and something certain Brits are quick to forget when they're critical of US foreign policy today. Damned if you do, damned if you don't!

Truth of the matter was the Battle of Britain was a foregone conclusion, and a certain victory for us at a time before the US joined the war. The US were however helping us with supplies and manufacturing. There were also very brave men who volunteered to serve with no obligation not only from occupied countries like Poland, but also from the US and Canada.

Simply put, our air superiority couldn't be matched by the Nazi's and looking back they were stupid to believe it could. Didn't stop many people losing their lives in something as pointless as war though.

British spirit is something to be very proud of and something that got people through the war. So much so that the Nazi's tried everything they could to break it. Propaganda, aimless bombing, weapons of terror, you name it. We held strong when it was needed, which is something the US civilian public never had to endure. In fact, the only loss of civilian life in the US was a single Japanese fire bomb that landed and was inspected by a few locals. They were so untouched in the war the people who died weren't even aware such weapons existed.

So I think there's a lot to be proud of and spirit spread to the entire nation not only those brave enough to fight.

Unlike some very brave relatives I've read from users on here my grandparents were lucky enough not to be called up. But my grandad on one side had his fair share of terror working in a dockyard targeted by bombing, and my nan, his future wife and a 13yr old during the blitz wouldn't have survived bombings if it wasn't for being able to hide in their outside toilet... This all outside London too.

My other grandparents, well one was a plumber who went to London during that time to fix up the damage, staying with a family there during that time. His wife was busy looking after my uncle as a toddler which isn't an easy task even when there's no war or rationing. Lucky for her in Accrington she was a bit out of the way of most bombing.

So spirit was definitely a thing, and it wasn't just about the military. During the battle of britain no one knew the US was going to join the war and people we're already scared to death (including the politicians) of a German invasion.

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Re: Battle of Britain Day

Post by box_of_frogs » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:20 pm

superdimitri wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:14 pm

Truth of the matter was the Battle of Britain was a foregone conclusion, and a certain victory for us at a time before the US joined the war.

Simply put, our air superiority couldn't be matched by the Nazi's and looking back they were stupid to believe it could.
Had the Luftwaffe not been ordered to switch their bombing campaign to the cities, instead of concentrating on eliminating Fighter Command as a cohesive fighting force, then I’d suggest its highly likely that the Luftwaffe would have achieved Air Superiority (and localised Supremacy).

To say the BoB was a foregone conclusion is so far wide of the mark, it might as well be in the transfer thread!
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Re: Battle of Britain Day

Post by bobinho » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:26 pm

Dyched wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:56 pm
I love these types of threads. “Oohh good old British spirit, if it wasn’t for that generation blah blah”.

The reality is, if it wasn’t for the Americans and Russians we were ******. End of.
Have you had your account hacked?

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Re: Battle of Britain Day

Post by LeadBelly » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:37 pm

Boss Hogg wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:25 am
Pivotal moment in our history. Nobody would have the choice to complain about anything today if we hadn’t won. Most of the people complaining wouldn’t be here either. The alternative though doesn’t bear thinking about. Brave selfless men.
Yes a real pivotal day and a great day for democracy. If Britain had fallen and there was no western front, Russia wouldve had it even harder + USA wouldve had no foothold in Europe to gain entry into the European theatre.

Part of history (along with many others) we should be proud of.

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Re: Battle of Britain Day

Post by Boss Hogg » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:38 pm

superdimitri wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:14 pm
No shame in that, and something certain Brits are quick to forget when they're critical of US foreign policy today. Damned if you do, damned if you don't!

Truth of the matter was the Battle of Britain was a foregone conclusion, and a certain victory for us at a time before the US joined the war. The US were however helping us with supplies and manufacturing. There were also very brave men who volunteered to serve with no obligation not only from occupied countries like Poland, but also from the US and Canada.

Simply put, our air superiority couldn't be matched by the Nazi's and looking back they were stupid to believe it could. Didn't stop many people losing their lives in something as pointless as war though.

British spirit is something to be very proud of and something that got people through the war. So much so that the Nazi's tried everything they could to break it. Propaganda, aimless bombing, weapons of terror, you name it. We held strong when it was needed, which is something the US civilian public never had to endure. In fact, the only loss of civilian life in the US was a single Japanese fire bomb that landed and was inspected by a few locals. They were so untouched in the war the people who died weren't even aware such weapons existed.

So I think there's a lot to be proud of and spirit spread to the entire nation not only those brave enough to fight.

Unlike some very brave relatives I've read from users on here my grandparents were lucky enough not to be called up. But my grandad on one side had his fair share of terror working in a dockyard targeted by bombing, and my nan, his future wife and a 13yr old during the blitz wouldn't have survived bombings if it wasn't for being able to hide in their outside toilet... This all outside London too.

My other grandparents, well one was a plumber who went to London during that time to fix up the damage, staying with a family there during that time. His wife was busy looking after my uncle as a toddler which isn't an easy task even when there's no war or rationing. Lucky for her in Accrington she was a bit out of the way of most bombing.

So spirit was definitely a thing, and it wasn't just about the military. During the battle of britain no one knew the US was going to join the war and people we're already scared to death (including the politicians) of a German invasion.
What you say is correct other than it being a foregone conclusion. in fact it was anything but although the Germans did underestimate us. The land invasion was already planned they were so confident of gaining air superiority.

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Re: Battle of Britain Day

Post by superdimitri » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:08 pm

box_of_frogs wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:20 pm
To say the BoB was a foregone conclusion is so far wide of the mark, it might as well be in the transfer thread!
Not off the mark at all. It's an opinion shared by others, including historians.
I'd suggest reading: https://books.google.com/books/about/Th ... escription

And here is a podcast on the topic: https://podcasts.google.com/?feed=aHR0c ... JmNzM3ZjE3

It's a common misconception to think it was a close call, in my opinion.

So I think you're so off the mark kind sir, perhaps you should be a bit more open minded when reading the transfer thread ;}

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Re: Battle of Britain Day

Post by box_of_frogs » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:42 pm

superdimitri wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:08 pm
Not off the mark at all. It's an opinion shared by others, including historians.
I'd suggest reading: https://books.google.com/books/about/Th ... escription

And here is a podcast on the topic: https://podcasts.google.com/?feed=aHR0c ... JmNzM3ZjE3

It's a common misconception to think it was a close call, in my opinion.

So I think you're so off the mark kind sir, perhaps you should be a bit more open minded when reading the transfer thread ;}
Happy with opinions.

I’ll add my (current) 20 years experience in the RAF and thus professional opinion and numerous professional courses including Staff College (including masters level essays) which say differently. The reason we (RAF) has to throw baby pilots with circa 20hrs flying into the mixer was because we were in danger of losing. Many of those only did 1 mission......

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Re: Battle of Britain Day

Post by TheFamilyCat » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:44 pm

martin_p wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:19 pm
Think I’ll tune into the beeb. Don’t need celebs with my history.
Goof idea, the beeb's program is all about the lesbian Muslims, the real heroines of WW2.
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Re: Battle of Britain Day

Post by Pstotto » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:53 pm

I think it should no longer be celebrated because it's racist.

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Re: Battle of Britain Day

Post by BenWickes » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:56 pm

box_of_frogs wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:42 pm
Happy with opinions.

I’ll add my (current) 20 years experience in the RAF and thus professional opinion and numerous professional courses including Staff College (including masters level essays) which say differently. The reason we (RAF) has to throw baby pilots with circa 20hrs flying into the mixer was because we were in danger of losing. Many of those only did 1 mission......
Thought it was common knowledge we threw men in the air with little training, which makes the feat all the more spectacular. The world as we know it would be totally different if it wasn't for the BoB. Including the USA. Worth noting pilots from many nations took part.
Yes the Germans made tactical mistakes but those men sadly lost for a greater cause, I am sure would do it all again knowing what we know now.

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Re: Battle of Britain Day

Post by ecc » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:28 am

We all agree, I think, that the Nazis wouldn't have been vanquished - at least by 1945 - without the involvement of the Americans and Soviets. But in from July to October 1940 we were alone as a nation although very fortunately aided by pilots from other European countries and our Commonwealth friends.

I don't think we realise how bad the situation was.

May we honour the memories of all the men and women who saved the country.

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Re: Battle of Britain Day

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:36 am

Superdimitri is quite correct

if anyone is vaguely interested in having their preconceptions challenged (unlikely), then the we have way of making you talk podcast did a great special three part special on this.

https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/we ... QA3ck68-r/

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Re: Battle of Britain Day

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:06 am

As an aside, if anyone is interested in reading a memoir of the Battle of Britain pilot, then you can't beat "First Light" by Geoffrey Wellum

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Re: Battle of Britain Day

Post by martin_p » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:09 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:06 am
As an aside, if anyone is interested in reading a memoir of the Battle of Britain pilot, then you can't beat "First Light" by Geoffrey Wellum
I was looking at a Battle of Britain book as my next historical read, any recommendations on a book that covers it well?

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Re: Battle of Britain Day

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:17 am

The last one that I read that was exclusively on the Battle was by Len Deighton, and that was a few years ago and doesn't take into account German losses or sources if I recall. I tend to read stuff about North Africa/Far East/Naval on the war to be honest.

He's more on the side of it being almost certain British victory btw

It does depend on how deep you want to go to be honest, most of the stuff I read on the war is seriously geeky, and maybe not to everyones taste!

But I've read a lot of James Hollands stuff and he's very good (I haven't read his book on the battle though)

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Re: Battle of Britain Day

Post by martin_p » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:18 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:17 am
The last one that I read that was exclusively on the Battle was by Len Deighton, and that was a few years ago and doesn't take into account German losses or sources if I recall. I tend to read stuff about North Africa/Far East/Naval on the war to be honest.

He's more on the side of it being almost certain British victory btw

It does depend on how deep you want to go to be honest, most of the stuff I read on the war is seriously geeky, and maybe not to everyones taste!

But I've read a lot of James Hollands stuff and he's very good (I haven't read his book on the battle though)
I’m thinking an Antony Beevor level of detail, read a lot of his stuff.

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Re: Battle of Britain Day

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:23 am

martin_p wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:18 am
I’m thinking an Antony Beevor level of detail, read a lot of his stuff.
Well, I loved his book on Stalingrad, quite liked his one on Berlin but found his book on D-Day rubbish!

Its the sort of thing though in which I could read hundreds of books on it, even though each are dealing with the same battle, but it depends on your reading preferences to be honest.

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Re: Battle of Britain Day

Post by martin_p » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:27 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:23 am
Well, I loved his book on Stalingrad, quite liked his one on Berlin but found his book on D-Day rubbish!

Its the sort of thing though in which I could read hundreds of books on it, even though each are dealing with the same battle, but it depends on your reading preferences to be honest.
Might give James Holland a try then, not read any of his books.

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Re: Battle of Britain Day

Post by Billy Balfour » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:31 pm

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