New Lockdown
Re: New Lockdown
Thanks for that. After reading it I cannot see why any employed person eligible for this benefit would break the self isolation rules. Still may get a few self employed though who may have deadlines to meet. Overall though a good safety net for workers.
Re: New Lockdown
I go in the office at least a day a week and it's not a problem at all. Because my employer has taken all the necessary precautions.Spijed wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:51 amBut I don't see how you can sit an office for 8 hours per day, without touching any paperwork that some else had handled, likewise with a photo copier etc, and remember to wipe everything down anytime you go near another desk.
How can you keep your distance for so many hours?
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Re: New Lockdown
Assuming your weekend job is in a shop it’s looks like your resolve is about to be tested. The PM is expected to announce face masks will be compulsory for shop workers today.GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:40 pmYou try wearing a mask for 8 hours and let me know your opinion after that about shop staff wearing one.
I wouldn't do it in my weekend job, I'd refuse.
It's easier for customers to wear one for 5-20 mins than it is for staff to wear one all day.
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Re: New Lockdown
Another apparently inconsistent announcement. Very good that those on low income should get support, but what about those normally on medium or high incomes?taio wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:48 amIt's part of what has only just been announced:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new- ... -isolation
If you're prevented from working then everyone is potentially on no income, so if you're just about coping irrespective of your income, (e.g. you might live in London and have a massive mortgage, a wife who is also prevented from working, and children, and financial commitments), your need could be equally great.
Surely it should be £500 across the board, (not means tested), which means that the lower paid would get a degree of levelling up anyway?
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Re: New Lockdown
If it becomes a legal requirement then so be it.
There will be a number of us off work though, as a number of us are at risk, so if masks are compulsory then it's reasonable to assume those at risk should isolate again.
Re: New Lockdown
I’m not sure how it’s safe for people preparing food and butchers not to wear them but I keep seeing it.
Re: New Lockdown
You wipe your arse every time you have a **** (presumably) so you can wipe a photo copier every time you use it. It’s really not difficult is it? Same with desks or shared equipment. You’ll wipe your kitchen worktop down after cooking, stove etc etc.Spijed wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:51 amBut I don't see how you can sit an office for 8 hours per day, without touching any paperwork that some else had handled, likewise with a photo copier etc, and remember to wipe everything down anytime you go near another desk.
How can you keep your distance for so many hours?
Re: New Lockdown
People who prepare/ cook continually taste as they go. Or at least proper chefs do. The amount of meals some cook everyday will mean the face mask is handled 100s of times, which would make wearing it pretty pointless. Unless people wanted chefs not to taste food and send out any old crap there is no alternative.
Re: New Lockdown
A chef v people cutting up and serving food in cafes and restaurants is quite different. Butchers don’t taste raw meat but are breathing all over it. I’m sure you get the point.Dyched wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:05 pmPeople who prepare/ cook continually taste as they go. Or at least proper chefs do. The amount of meals some cook everyday will mean the face mask is handled 100s of times, which would make wearing it pretty pointless. Unless people wanted chefs not to taste food and send out any old crap there is no alternative.
Re: New Lockdown
6 MONTHS!!
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Re: New Lockdown
Nobody really uses printers or paper documents anymore. At least in the place i work.Spijed wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:51 amBut I don't see how you can sit an office for 8 hours per day, without touching any paperwork that some else had handled, likewise with a photo copier etc, and remember to wipe everything down anytime you go near another desk.
How can you keep your distance for so many hours?
I've not been back in our office but it's a really good setup. 20% max capacity, allocated cutlery and crockery. Cleaning stations.
Thing is it only takes one symptom less person to use the kettle and pass it onto others...
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Re: New Lockdown
New guidelines: People should work from home wherever possible.
Michael Gove: "If you are in a Covid-secure workplace, then you should be there if your job requires it." However, he said that otherwise, people should work at home.
They don't help themselves do they?
Michael Gove: "If you are in a Covid-secure workplace, then you should be there if your job requires it." However, he said that otherwise, people should work at home.
They don't help themselves do they?
Re: New Lockdown
I saw that quote and thought my thickness was preventing me from understanding. Perhaps not?
Re: New Lockdown
After spending the last few weeks trying to put pressure on people to go back to the office, even if they didn't really need to.TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:50 pmNew guidelines: People should work from home wherever possible.
Michael Gove: "If you are in a Covid-secure workplace, then you should be there if your job requires it." However, he said that otherwise, people should work at home.
They don't help themselves do they?
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Re: New Lockdown
They put Valance and Whitty on TV by themselves who said "we must break unnecessary links between households"
When Gove was quized on R4 what this might include with regards to the rule of 6 he couldn't/wouldn't give an answer. When asked If he thought a dinner party of six people from different households, allowed under the Rof6 would be an 'unnecessary link between households' he swerved it and went back to 'common sense'.
So once again they will say 'we gave you all the information' but you didn't follow it when they themselves will refuse to tell you what to actually do.
They love to tell you how clever you all are with your 'common sense' when they give you vague guidance which will be interpreted differently by nearly everyone. But then it's your fault (well not yours of course, other peoples fault, you were very clever and used your common sense) when the vague guidance doesn't work.
When Gove was quized on R4 what this might include with regards to the rule of 6 he couldn't/wouldn't give an answer. When asked If he thought a dinner party of six people from different households, allowed under the Rof6 would be an 'unnecessary link between households' he swerved it and went back to 'common sense'.
So once again they will say 'we gave you all the information' but you didn't follow it when they themselves will refuse to tell you what to actually do.
They love to tell you how clever you all are with your 'common sense' when they give you vague guidance which will be interpreted differently by nearly everyone. But then it's your fault (well not yours of course, other peoples fault, you were very clever and used your common sense) when the vague guidance doesn't work.
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Re: New Lockdown
Will everyone including staff going into pubs and restaurants etc have their temperature taken before being able to enter?
If not why not?
If not why not?
Re: New Lockdown
It was trying to get people back into some kind of reality.
Now imagine if they were told not to go back.
“Don’t go back to the office, it isn’t safe to do so. But here, here’s a 50% voucher for your local restaurant, go visit, enjoy yourself. Laugh whilst the workers work in an unsafe environment knowing you don’t have too”.
See it would’ve been a bit daft eh?
Re: New Lockdown
They say the same thing though don’t they?TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:50 pmNew guidelines: People should work from home wherever possible.
Michael Gove: "If you are in a Covid-secure workplace, then you should be there if your job requires it." However, he said that otherwise, people should work at home.
They don't help themselves do they?
If you can work from home, work from home.
If you’re required to work in the workplace and it’s safe, go to work.
What’s hard to understand?
Re: New Lockdown
Did anyone ask them to define "unnecessary"?CombatClaret wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:26 amThey put Valance and Whitty on TV by themselves who said "we must break unnecessary links between households"
Re: New Lockdown
Going to see your 85 year old Mum who lives on her own could be defined as "unnecessary", but I'm pretty sure to the elderly person who is living on their own it's important.
My Grandma is happy to still have visitors so I'm going to keep visiting her whether the government want me to or not. Elderly people spending their limited time left in this world lonely and alone is probably just as bad as the minuscule chance that they catch Covid.
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Re: New Lockdown
Try wearing a mask from the time you leave your own home to the time you come back in 34c temperature and 80% humidity. At least these measures in the UK only apply indoors. Other countries are much more stricter on this mask business and seem to be faring much better. Singapore is consistently having around 7 community cases a week out of a population of 6 million. I think we would be very happy if the whole of Lancashire was down to that level but some personal sacrifices will need to be made.GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:40 pmYou try wearing a mask for 8 hours and let me know your opinion after that about shop staff wearing one.
I wouldn't do it in my weekend job, I'd refuse.
It's easier for customers to wear one for 5-20 mins than it is for staff to wear one all day.
As an idea of the level of enforcement, after 5 months of mandatory mask wearing, from next week the age threshold for wearing a mask outside your own home will be raised from 2 to 6. I'd have loved to have seen the reaction on here if Boris made it mandatory for 2 year olds to wear masks both indoors and outdoors.
A guy got sent to prison today for 5 weeks for taking his mask off and coughing in someone's face. Others were deported for meeting up with friends and getting drunk. Has anyone really been made an example of, is their the same level of outrage about not wearing a mask compared to drink driving ?
You can be fined 175 quid for just talking on public transport even though you are wearing a mask. Is there that level of self discipline in the UK?
If all these light measures in the UK are not to your liking then be thankful that you aren't living elsewhere.
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Re: New Lockdown
Soooo...how would you feel if you go and see her, the very next day you get symptoms or a call from Track and Trace and find out the next day you are positive and you have passed it to your 85 yo mum who falls gravely ill, is admitted to hospital into ITU. You ca't now visit her while she is suffering and, unfortunately, passes away without you at her bedside?jrgbfc wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:40 pmGoing to see your 85 year old Mum who lives on her own could be defined as "unnecessary", but I'm pretty sure to the elderly person who is living on their own it's important.
My Grandma is happy to still have visitors so I'm going to keep visiting her whether the government want me to or not. Elderly people spending their limited time left in this world lonely and alone is probably just as bad as the minuscule chance that they catch Covid.
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Re: New Lockdown
Who gets to decide if you’re “required to work in the workplace”. If you can do the job from home but not as effectively, can the employer argue you’re required in the workplace? If they take this stance, can the employee force the employee to come to work? It raised many questions.
I suspect many businesses will take this view which will, without clarity from the government will raise serious legal issues.
Re: New Lockdown
https://www.covid19vaccinetrial.co.uk/home
As the virus infection rate is increasing rapidly it might be a good time for the over 60s/70s to volunteer for the Oxford vaccine trial.
As the virus infection rate is increasing rapidly it might be a good time for the over 60s/70s to volunteer for the Oxford vaccine trial.
Re: New Lockdown
Well if they can’t do their job as effectively then that pretty much means they can’t work from home doesn’t it.PremierLeagueClass wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:47 pmWho gets to decide if you’re “required to work in the workplace”. If you can do the job from home but not as effectively, can the employer argue you’re required in the workplace? If they take this stance, can the employee force the employee to come to work? It raised many questions.
I suspect many businesses will take this view which will, without clarity from the government will raise serious legal issues.
Re: New Lockdown
Life is full of risks unfortunately, we can't completely shut down society. Whilst she is happy to still have visitors I'll keep going. Being housebound stuck at home all winter without seeing another person isn't much of an existence is it?ClaretDiver wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:46 pmSoooo...how would you feel if you go and see her, the very next day you get symptoms or a call from Track and Trace and find out the next day you are positive and you have passed it to your 85 yo mum who falls gravely ill, is admitted to hospital into ITU. You ca't now visit her while she is suffering and, unfortunately, passes away without you at her bedside?
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Re: New Lockdown
Fair enough but this is a firsthand scenario I have seen happen and my friend is absolutely devastated at his actions...he felt the same as you...guess what, he doesn't now
Re: New Lockdown
Probably the same as if he didn't go and see her for 12 months and she died on her own from one of the 22 greater risks of death than covid.ClaretDiver wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:46 pmSoooo...how would you feel if you go and see her, the very next day you get symptoms or a call from Track and Trace and find out the next day you are positive and you have passed it to your 85 yo mum who falls gravely ill, is admitted to hospital into ITU. You ca't now visit her while she is suffering and, unfortunately, passes away without you at her bedside?
Many older people, who don't know how long they have left would prefer to take the risk, and live what's left of their lives.
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Re: New Lockdown
No, while the whole press corp was assembled they did not allow questions.
Just a case of 'we told you what to do' without giving any clear instructions. The rule of six and the advise from the two leading uk health experts to "break unnecessary links between households" are completely at odds with each other.
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Re: New Lockdown
Fair enough but for now I will abide by the rules laid out and not mix households...seems like his mum is having multiple people visiting the house so risk of spread of infection is greater leading to the potential numbers incresing and a total second lockdown being imposed....as outlined this morning.Grumps wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:26 pmProbably the same as if he didn't go and see her for 12 months and she died on her own from one of the 22 greater risks of death than covid.
Many older people, who don't know how long they have left would prefer to take the risk, and live what's left of their lives.
Re: New Lockdown
I think in that situation a little common sense by those visiting and even some of their own rules should come into play. If there are multiple visitors, those should set out rules where only 1 or 2 at the most are allowed to visit. The rest can stick to phone calls or skype, whatever way of communication is best, for now.ClaretDiver wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:31 pmFair enough but for now I will abide by the rules laid out and not mix households...seems like his mum is having multiple people visiting the house so risk of spread of infection is greater leading to the potential numbers incresing and a total second lockdown being imposed....as outlined this morning.
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Re: New Lockdown
Maybe even do the unthinkable and reduce the risk by wearing a mask.Dyched wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:41 pmI think in that situation a little common sense by those visiting and even some of their own rules should come into play. If there are multiple visitors, those should set out rules where only 1 or 2 at the most are allowed to visit. The rest can stick to phone calls or skype, whatever way of communication is best, for now.
Re: New Lockdown
Exactly this. Treat the visit like you would a visit to the supermarket. Sanitise on entry, wear a mask, keep your distance etc. People ignore these things when going to other households to visit loved ones, yet will constantly do it to protect strangers in the shops.SingaporeClarets wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:42 pmMaybe even do the unthinkable and reduce the risk by wearing a mask.
Re: New Lockdown
If she lives alone she can bubble with another household, no?
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Re: New Lockdown
These things happen. Suppose instead that she wants to go to the seaside so you take her in spite of the dangers and the car crashes or she falls over a paving stone or any of the other myriad bad news possibilities that wouldn't have happened if she had stopped at home. Apart from the difference of being with her when she died, is the circumstance so very different?ClaretDiver wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:46 pmSoooo...how would you feel if you go and see her, the very next day you get symptoms or a call from Track and Trace and find out the next day you are positive and you have passed it to your 85 yo mum who falls gravely ill, is admitted to hospital into ITU. You ca't now visit her while she is suffering and, unfortunately, passes away without you at her bedside?
Re: New Lockdown
That's the problem referred to above. If Mrs Smith's son marries Mrs Jones' daughter, then Mr and Mrs Smith-Jones can bubble with only one of their parents, legally, The other must be left unvisited for the duration.
And that's before you start on the idea that Mr and Mrs Smith-Jones may have children and grandchildren of their own.
Re: New Lockdown
we've come full circle now haven't we. I'll probably get grief for posting the linkGodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:46 pmIf it becomes a legal requirement then so be it.
There will be a number of us off work though, as a number of us are at risk, so if masks are compulsory then it's reasonable to assume those at risk should isolate again.
From Feb 7 on the original thread...
I do agree that for those of us in a high risk category we may need to re-evaluate what we do and how we go about our business, personally for me nothing has changed since Feb - still working from home, still isolated, still getting shopping delivered, still facetiming everyone or using other communication methods, still have a partner and child having to be careful whilst they are out and about.
I've been out places though, and been careful. I've had visits to isolated beaches for good sea air whilst walking the dog. I've even made the good lady order food for us whilst we sit outside in a Harvester pub occasionally, but I've been sensible in all this.
But still I rely upon the intelligence of others to keep me safe. Others need to wear a mask for my protection; others need to minimise risks so they don't end up asymptomatic carriers and spread it; My other half works in a school and a colleague of hers who she is in constant contact with is now Covid+ after a test - her colleague had been on a boozy weekend away with her family to Liverpool which is where they think they caught it and she is now quite ill (not on deaths door though).
We just need to apply common sense and avoid social media conspiracy theorists who says its all 5G. I've knocked the government for the handling of this a fair bit and I dont want to go over old ground on that one, but I will say they have tried to do the right thing most of the time, and for that alone I applaud them but I still think it's been very badly handled in general.
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Re: New Lockdown
Yeah, we are in the middle of a pandemic where the government have put in place rules to try and quell it yet people think they are above these rules and they don't apply so the ones of us that are doing the right thing will be 'punished'...go ahead, break the rules, in a way, I hope those that do break them contract it and end up in ITU and experience it....that is how strong I feel.....dsr wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:00 pmThese things happen. Suppose instead that she wants to go to the seaside so you take her in spite of the dangers and the car crashes or she falls over a paving stone or any of the other myriad bad news possibilities that wouldn't have happened if she had stopped at home. Apart from the difference of being with her when she died, is the circumstance so very different?
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Re: New Lockdown
Is the new test & trace app still launching tomorrow? It mentions that it uses bluetooth, but I'm sure I'm not alone in saying my bluetooth is always off as it uses a lot of battery.
Re: New Lockdown
Have you actually come on to a public message board to say that you hope a lonely 85 year old lady catches coronavirus and goes into intensive care?ClaretDiver wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:04 pmYeah, we are in the middle of a pandemic where the government have put in place rules to try and quell it yet people think they are above these rules and they don't apply so the ones of us that are doing the right thing will be 'punished'...go ahead, break the rules, in a way, I hope those that do break them contract it and end up in ITU and experience it....that is how strong I feel.....
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Re: New Lockdown
No I haven't, I have come on to express how strongly I feel about people breaking rules....my partner has had to live through this whole thing coming home from work in tears watching people die from this on a nightly basis during the first wave....God forbid she has to go through a second wave but people breaking rules are playing with fire and seriously messing life up for everyone else....
Re: New Lockdown
Immediately above your post the thread talks about an 85 year old who receives visitors contrary to the rules. You said that you hope people who break the rules catch the virus and end in intensive care. Can it be assumed that you are excluding this particular lady from your hate list?ClaretDiver wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:14 pmNo I haven't, I have come on to express how strongly I feel about people breaking rules....my partner has had to live through this whole thing coming home from work in tears watching people die from this on a nightly basis during the first wave....God forbid she has to go through a second wave but people breaking rules are playing with fire and seriously messing life up for everyone else....
Incidentally, does your partner share your view of wanting people to be ill and in intensive care? You seem to imply that she prefers people not to be ill.
Re: New Lockdown
Regardless of whether people think the government has done a good or bad job in handling the virus don't be naive into thinking that if people had followed the guidelines exactly we won't be experiencing a rise in cases.ClaretDiver wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:14 pmNo I haven't, I have come on to express how strongly I feel about people breaking rules....my partner has had to live through this whole thing coming home from work in tears watching people die from this on a nightly basis during the first wave....God forbid she has to go through a second wave but people breaking rules are playing with fire and seriously messing life up for everyone else....
It was ALWAYS bound to go up as soon as there was a relaxation and it is going to grow during the winter months, as any virus would.
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Re: New Lockdown
Ok, I will admit my post was made in the heat of the moment and was out of order. However, my point still stands that I absolutely get 100 percent peed off with people who feel they can break the rules because they can do. The Government has imposed them in order to try and bring the infection rate down...the hospital admissions here in the NE are rising very quickly and it is coming back.
People saying....oh we are just going to go about as normal are adding to the rsik that we WILL go into another total lockdown.
My comment was out of order and I apologise for it.
But come on, some common sense is needed here to stem this...it is real whether people think it is or not...I just get so frustrated.
I am not going to post on this thread again but once again, please accept my apologies for my over the top, inappropriate post.
People saying....oh we are just going to go about as normal are adding to the rsik that we WILL go into another total lockdown.
My comment was out of order and I apologise for it.
But come on, some common sense is needed here to stem this...it is real whether people think it is or not...I just get so frustrated.
I am not going to post on this thread again but once again, please accept my apologies for my over the top, inappropriate post.
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Re: New Lockdown
I know that, but the point is that she doesn't have to be stuck at home alone.dsr wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:03 pmThat's the problem referred to above. If Mrs Smith's son marries Mrs Jones' daughter, then Mr and Mrs Smith-Jones can bubble with only one of their parents, legally, The other must be left unvisited for the duration.
And that's before you start on the idea that Mr and Mrs Smith-Jones may have children and grandchildren of their own.
Re: New Lockdown
Mrs Smith or Mrs Jones can bubble with somebody else. Or Mrs Smith can bubble with Mrs Jones and they can visit each other.