Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

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Papabendi
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Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by Papabendi » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:36 pm

And now you see it - Ferrari vs a Mini Metro I'm afraid.

Premier League power and pace vs. a nice neat player who thrives with time and space but doesn't truly influence most games.
Last edited by Papabendi on Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Wellsy1882
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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by Wellsy1882 » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:37 pm

Dwight would be better than barnes in a better squad

cockneyclaret
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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by cockneyclaret » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:40 pm

Barnes is just walking past our players

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by Stevie Morgan » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:40 pm

Papabendi wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:36 pm
And now you see it - Ferrari vs a Mini Metro I'm afraid.

Premier League power and pace vs. a nice neat player who thrives with times and space but doesn't truly influence most games.
Rubbish. Look at the players they have got around them. Also, different types. Dwight would be excel in a midfield 3 IMO. He has a much better left foot than Barnes. Or right foot if Barnes favours that side.

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by Quickenthetempo » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:43 pm

Barnes is a very good player.

McNeil could do with playing for an attacking manager too to show his best off.

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by Burnley1989 » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:43 pm

Papabendi wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:36 pm
And now you see it - Ferrari vs a Mini Metro I'm afraid.

Premier League power and pace vs. a nice neat player who thrives with times and space but doesn't truly influence most games.
I think he’s a great player but he can’t even make the 21s and some fans talk about him being a 50m player, 50m players are the best player on the pitch when a side gets beat

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by Vegas Claret » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:44 pm

cockneyclaret wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:40 pm
Barnes is just walking past our players
won't be long until he is an England regular, very very good player

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by KefkaClaret » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:45 pm

It's easier to be a role player for a team than be the team's star player.

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by willsclarets » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:50 pm

To be fair Harvey Barnes has been against Phil Bardsley, a player who nearly got relegated with Sunderland before Harvey was born. Not a game to measure his true potential
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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by Papabendi » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:54 pm

it's about 15 games now since I saw Dwight play a half decent game / influence the game. I don't like saying that, but it is there.

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by Papabendi » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:54 pm

willsclarets wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:50 pm
To be fair Harvey Barnes has been against Phil Bardsley, a player who nearly got relegated with Sunderland before Harvey was born. Not a game to measure his true potential

do you like Ben Mee? He ripped him a new one too.

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by BurnleyFC » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:56 pm

Barnes at this moment in time is a better player than Dwight.

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by Stevie Morgan » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:57 pm

Papabendi wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:54 pm
it's about 15 games now since I saw Dwight play a half decent game / influence the game. I don't like saying that, but it is there.
He is still a young lad who we massively over rely on for creativity. And he has to play every single minute. I thinks it's taken its toll.

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by bobinho » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:59 pm

Papabendi wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:54 pm
do you like Ben Mee? He ripped him a new one too.
Do you like Burnley?

Look, Barnes is a good player, and has a chance of making the England senior side. Your analogy is laughable.

Dwights a good player, and he is the bit of class we have in the midfield. If he was surrounded by the quality that Leicester have, he’d look a world beater too, because he’d have more space and time.

Anyway, that’s me gents... should’ve realised nowts changed round here. Forums a bloody car crash for a couple of days after a defeat.

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by willsclarets » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:59 pm

Papabendi wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:54 pm
do you like Ben Mee? He ripped him a new one too.
Yep I like Ben Mee, and it was a throw away line though I do think Bardsley is poor. Harvey Barnes is class and would give most people a tough game

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by SGr » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:01 pm

Opposition teams do their homework. McNeil is the only creative threat we have. We need a right winger who actually gives the opposition something to think about.

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by thelaughingclaret » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:05 pm

McNeil did not look interested at all. Didn’t het back to help taylor and didn’t get forward enough. Looked like he did not want the ball at all. Very poor.

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by JohnDearyMe » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:05 pm

McNeil wasn't as good as he has been tonight but he still got an assist and was instrumental in our first goal too.

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by Papabendi » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:05 pm

when was Dwight's last good game? Simple question.

If you were watching the game as a neutral tonight does he stand out even in an average Burnley team?

We can't keep saying England U21 ..England team ....when players like Harvey Barnes (who is also not close) are so far superior. That's not just team mates I am sorry - that's pace, technical ability and finishing.

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by Winstonswhite » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:06 pm

Papabendi wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:36 pm
And now you see it - Ferrari vs a Mini Metro I'm afraid.

Premier League power and pace vs. a nice neat player who thrives with time and space but doesn't truly influence most games.
Not sure how you can say DM doesn’t influence most games when his stats suggest otherwise

Harvey Barnes 8 goals 11 assists
Dwight McNeil 5 goals 12 assists

Also, I know it’s debatable, but Dwight plays for a pretty defensive team do you not think it’s fair to say??!
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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by burnleymik » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:06 pm

Dwight's ball in for Dunne's goal was immense.

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by Papabendi » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:09 pm

Unfortunately it seems like Barnes is getting better while Dwight unfortunately goes into reverse.

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by majormajor » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:10 pm

Just for some balance, Harvey Barnes was playing in the Championship when he was McNeil's age.

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by ewanrob » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:11 pm

Papabendi wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:36 pm
And now you see it - Ferrari vs a Mini Metro I'm afraid.

Premier League power and pace vs. a nice neat player who thrives with time and space but doesn't truly influence most games.
1st match of the season and you come out with that, perhaps tailor your angst against our out of his depth Chairman....god I wish we could get on the turf, and give him some s**t.

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by Papabendi » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:18 pm

majormajor wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:10 pm
Just for some balance, Harvey Barnes was playing in the Championship when he was McNeil's age.
who would you rather have now - be honest.

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by Papabendi » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:21 pm

ewanrob wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:11 pm
1st match of the season and you come out with that, perhaps tailor your angst against our out of his depth Chairman....god I wish we could get on the turf, and give him some s**t.
I don't like saying it, but I watched his games through lockdown and I honestly thought in the main, he was terrible. There was no great uptick here, tonight. We can't expect McNeil to do everything in this team (no.. he really isn't that good) but on recent performances we have no reason to get excited at all, as we are looking at a very average player (on current form).

Really hope he proves me wrong btw.

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by dandeclaret » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:23 pm

Papabendi wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:36 pm
And now you see it - Ferrari vs a Mini Metro I'm afraid.

Premier League power and pace vs. a nice neat player who thrives with time and space but doesn't truly influence most games.
or 2 years in age difference / development of 2 very good players, one who played in his favoured position, in a better team, one who was shifted about to facilitate players to fit into a injury stripped team.

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by Papabendi » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:25 pm

you can't coach the athletic side of the game.

watching Dwight trying to track back tonight brought back memories of Glen Little in his later years.

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by elwaclaret » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:27 pm

Barnes has everything to become a top top player. It may be Dwight beefs out, but for now Barnes pace and power is far more reliable. Of the two I’d take Barnes at the moment, but if both fulfil their promise England should have some quality players in a year or two.

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by dandeclaret » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:29 pm

To be fair, I didn't notice Barnes tracking back, so you're ahead of me there. That was Dwight's first game of the season wasn't it? He didn't play vs Sheff United? Similar to restarting vs City and Man Utd yesterday, I'd expect a lot of improvement in energy levels (Something he doesn't often lack with the amount of work he does) for a full competitive game.

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by ewanrob » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:33 pm

Papabendi wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:21 pm
I don't like saying it, but I watched his games through lockdown and I honestly thought in the main, he was terrible. There was no great uptick here, tonight. We can't expect McNeil to do everything in this team (no.. he really isn't that good) but on recent performances we have no reason to get excited at all, as we are looking at a very average player (on current form).

Really hope he proves me wrong btw.
Hes not in a team, that allows as much individual freedom like Barnes, he is expected to play a certain system and the nice stuff comes as an added bonus when things are going our way. He lacks the pace of a lot of players his age, but more than makes up for that with his vision...but that might not always be enough....not being picked for England U23 for example.

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by Papabendi » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:37 pm

dandeclaret wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:29 pm
To be fair, I didn't notice Barnes tracking back, so you're ahead of me there. That was Dwight's first game of the season wasn't it? He didn't play vs Sheff United? Similar to restarting vs City and Man Utd yesterday, I'd expect a lot of improvement in energy levels (Something he doesn't often lack with the amount of work he does) for a full competitive game.
He often looks knackered after 15 mins. To thrive at the highest levels you need a motor. We saw that from Barnes tonight.

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by dandeclaret » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:39 pm

I agree he often looks tired, but it doesn't stop his work, and doesn't stop him going past people at a decent pace with good balance when attacking.

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by Papabendi » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:42 pm

I honestly counted on the fingers of one hand the number of times he went past players during that final flurry of games.

Perhaps I won't count tonight. I was disappointed with his performance but it was a tough, tough game all round. I just don't see how we can keep on going on about him based on what we are currently seeing, sorry.

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by dandeclaret » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:47 pm

I don't think he was good tonight, but I thought the midfield looked more disjointed than when I usually see them (Maybe exposing the value of Cork). Thought Brownhill worked hard, but faded - he may need to pace himself more in order to not leave gaps. Dwight totally ineffective 2nd half on wrong side, and Pieters mainly ineffective as well.

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by Papabendi » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:50 pm

let's revisit after the next few games. He's fading for me.

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by daveisaclaret » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:52 pm

Dwight often looks tired. I would imagine a young player at a club like Leicester who often looked tired wouldn't start all 38 league games in a season because they really almost totally on him for creativity, and as such would probably be a bit less tired.

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by ksrclaret » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:54 pm

Papabendi wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:50 pm
let's revisit after the next few games. He's fading for me.
He's got fantastic technical ability. That bit cannot be up for debate amongst anyone who's seen him play regularly.

If he's fading it's because he's being flogged every week for 90 minutes because our other wingers aren't up to it, or are permanently crocked. Look at how other young players his age are managed. They certainly don't play every single minute and end up with the burden of becoming the only creative outlet in their team.
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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by ClaretLoup » Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:31 pm

Just for some perspective, McNeil was up against Castaneda who Leicester signed from Champions Leage quarter finalists Atalanta who also finished their season third in Serie A.

Barnes was up against Phil Bardsley with no recognised fit right sided midfielder to back him up.
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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by EarbyClaret » Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:48 pm

If it means he goes below the radar of teams like Leicester until the transfer window closes then I think we need to live with a low-key start

Again given a more balanced squad he wouldn't have to play every minute of every game and be the only creative outlet in the team - huge burden to place on a young and developing player

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by Slurpy » Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:57 pm

Dwight would not play on the wing on any top team he'd be central

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by California Colner » Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:01 am

Ask yourself who would you like to be playing for Burnley
Harvey or Dwight
United let him go for a reason
Don’t get me wrong he is a good player
I think you could be the best forward player in the world
But Dyche will not let you he would rather you defend
Harvey drives forward
Can anybody on this forum tell me Burnley Player who drives forward at there defense?

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by Vegas Claret » Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:16 am

ClaretLoup wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:31 pm
Just for some perspective, McNeil was up against Castaneda who Leicester signed from Champions Leage quarter finalists Atalanta who also finished their season third in Serie A.

Barnes was up against Phil Bardsley with no recognised fit right sided midfielder to back him up.
post of the day, spot on

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by Right_winger » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:29 am

A couple of observations, McNeil doesn’t look as effective again a pacey fullback and he doesn’t have much aim at when he does get in a crossing position.

Our style “framework” stifles his attacking flair. He’s not the best defensively and it means he has more workload to do when we turn the ball over.

Put McNeil in a better team and he Will
Look a lot better.

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by jrgbfc » Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:21 am

It's easier playing with better players. McNeil is playing alongside workhorses and expected to spend most of his time tracking back.

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by Papabendi » Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:42 pm

Yet it didn't seem to hinder him when he first came onto the scene.

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by Gordaleman » Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:48 pm

McNeil often looks totally disinterested and on Sunday he just didn't track back when he lost the ball. He just stood in midfield until someone yelled at him to get back.

Sean has mentioned this and it's true, he needs to play with a smile on his face, not look totally p*ssed off and bored.

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by Wile E Coyote » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:57 pm

mcneil can't be compared like this, he plays in a completely different team structure. He has to do a lot of work to find a position to get crosses in because the support is often not around him. he is clearly a talented lad, but he is not surrounded by other flair players. Leicester seem to be very attack minded, their movement is slick and clever, particularly near the edge of the box.
They must spend endless hours practicing those quick passes, and it appears they have the talent to make it pay.

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by dandeclaret » Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:35 pm

Gordaleman wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:48 pm
McNeil often looks totally disinterested and on Sunday he just didn't track back when he lost the ball. He just stood in midfield until someone yelled at him to get back.

Sean has mentioned this and it's true, he needs to play with a smile on his face, not look totally p*ssed off and bored.
Where has Sean Dyche mentioned that about Dwight McNeill?

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Re: Harvey Barnes vs Dwight McNeil

Post by Spike » Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:23 pm

Isn’t it true that Barnes is one of our own -born in Burnley!

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