Harry Wilson

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Down_Rover
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Down_Rover » Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:04 pm

CT has also said he has not drafted an article

buzzclarets79
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by buzzclarets79 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:07 pm

Gordaleman wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:04 pm
Even CT doesn't know everything. ;) I can hope can't I? :D
Being Burnley its the hope that kills you..... :lol:

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Gordaleman » Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:09 pm

buzzclarets79 wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:07 pm
Being Burnley its the hope that kills you..... :lol:
Well, so far I've survived 68 years of watching Burnley. Nothing much surprises me these days.

I never expected to see Ian Wright or Gazza play for Burnley, but they did. Anything can happen and frequently does.
Last edited by Gordaleman on Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by buzzclarets79 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:10 pm

Down_Rover wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:04 pm
CT has also said he has not drafted an article
CT can't possibly write an article for every player we "enquire" about, I'd suggest if it gets a bit further down the line before he has anything ready to go.

Can maybe see this going through as a loan deal with maybe a optional future fee?

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by NewClaret » Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:11 pm

Wellsy1882 wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:59 pm
Hes signing tmorrow
Is this like Tarky was starting last week? :lol: :lol:
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by FactualFrank » Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:21 pm

NewClaret wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:11 pm
Is this like Tarky was starting last week? :lol: :lol:
I suspect so. I think whenever somebody comes out with something that seems unlikely, they're "Doing a Wellsy".
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by NewClaret » Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:23 pm

FactualFrank wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:21 pm
I suspect so. I think whenever somebody comes out with something that seems unlikely, they're "Doing a Wellsy".
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Giftonsnoidea » Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:32 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:07 pm
So long as he is a genuine threat on that flank then it doesn't matter which foot he uses.
Know what your saying just find it incredibly unnatural for a winger to constantly have to cut inside, easily forseen by defenders most of the time.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by FactualFrank » Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:34 pm

Giftonsnoidea wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:32 pm
Know what your saying just find it incredibly unnatural for a winger to constantly have to cut inside, easily forseen by defenders most of the time.
But there's plenty of right one-footed wingers who play on the right. Defenders know they're going to go down on their right.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Giftonsnoidea » Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:39 pm

FactualFrank wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:34 pm
But there's plenty of right one-footed wingers who play on the right. Defenders know they're going to go down on their right.
Someone who can use both would be better :)

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by dibraidio » Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:44 pm

For Derby he scored twice from the left, three times from the right, 5 times down the middle, 3 times from the penalty spot and 5 times from free kicks. He played on the left for Derby and up front or on the right for Bournemouth. Is that's not varied enough for you? Brownhill was in a pretty easily foreseen position agianst Millwall but it didn't help them keep out his strike and looking at Wilson's goals there are quite a few stunners from distance.

If anything Wilson is probably too good for Burnley. We'd just be a stepping stone for him on his way to bigger things.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by BenWickes » Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:46 pm

Two positives, well three really. He has pace, can score goals from midfield and is a threat from a direct free kick. We're lacking in all three. we do have good deliveries from free-kicks but nobody who can ping one in the top corner from 30 yards more than once a season. When I say nobody, Brownhill, JBG and McNeil are our three really and their success rate when on the field isn't great.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:48 pm

Giftonsnoidea wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:32 pm
Know what your saying just find it incredibly unnatural for a winger to constantly have to cut inside, easily forseen by defenders most of the time.
KRBFC had it right when he named Robben.

Every man and his dog knew that Robben would cut in onto his favoured left foot when playing on the right flank and still very few defenders stopped him.
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by superdimitri » Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:54 pm

Image
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Papabendi » Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:19 pm

The interesting stat about Wilson is his goals. 7 last season for Bournemouth in a relegated team (despite being in and out)..that's more than in Dwight's entire career for Burnley so far and eye catching. 15 for Derby in the Championship.

Looks to me that Dyche is targeting more goals from these areas.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by NewClaret » Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:53 pm

BenWickes wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:46 pm
Two positives, well three really. He has pace, can score goals from midfield and is a threat from a direct free kick. We're lacking in all three. we do have good deliveries from free-kicks but nobody who can ping one in the top corner from 30 yards more than once a season. When I say nobody, Brownhill, JBG and McNeil are our three really and their success rate when on the field isn't great.
Agreed.

In a sense I think our lack of goals from midfield is down to our style and selfless midfielders who will look to cross before getting themselves in a position to score. Getting more from midfield/free kicks would be such a bonus to relieve some of the pressure this season. Dwight needs to step up now & Brownhill’s goal in the week gave me some hope!
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ian
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by ian » Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:11 pm

dibraidio wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:44 pm
If anything Wilson is probably too good for Burnley. We'd just be a stepping stone for him on his way to bigger things.
Much rather he do damage for us on the way to bigger things than be on the receiving end and no profit.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Somethingfishy » Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:17 pm

Papabendi wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:19 pm
The interesting stat about Wilson is his goals. 7 last season for Bournemouth in a relegated team (despite being in and out)..that's more than in Dwight's entire career for Burnley so far and eye catching. 15 for Derby in the Championship.

Looks to me that Dyche is targeting more goals from these areas.
Quite possibly but i'm of the opinion that the way we play stops our midfield scoring too many goals. We just don't commit men forward. It wouldn't do any harm in getting in a player that scores from out wide but he could be stifled by our system. Imo of course.
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by dandeclaret » Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:28 pm

Papabendi wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:19 pm
The interesting stat about Wilson is his goals. 7 last season for Bournemouth in a relegated team (despite being in and out)..that's more than in Dwight's entire career for Burnley so far and eye catching. 15 for Derby in the Championship.

Looks to me that Dyche is targeting more goals from these areas.
It is interesting, but it's also quite narrow. He got 7 goals, and zero assists in 31 appearances (According to this site https://www.premierleague.com/players/1 ... n/overview whereas last season Dwight got 2 goals and 6 assists in 38 appearances. Dwight overall has 5 goals and 12 assists at Premier League level in 61 games, including one assist on the board this season.

It doesn't feel as though the attacking contributions are materially different?

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Papabendi » Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:36 pm

Dyche is targeting more direct goals from midfield. Direct goals from free kicks make a material difference.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Papabendi » Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:37 pm

also I don't think your assist info is correct.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by boatshed bill » Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:39 pm

Assists are funny. They in no way should be used as a benchmark for a player's performance.
Dwight McNeil could put over ten killer crosses per game, it counts for nothing if they are all missed.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by ElectroClaret » Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:40 pm

A loan for the season would be ideal.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Papabendi » Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:40 pm

if goals scored is narrow..then shoot me narrow!!

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by BenWickes » Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:45 pm

ElectroClaret wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:40 pm
A loan for the season would be ideal.
They don't want to loan him. They need to recoup. You'll probably see a few more of their fringe players go out as well now they've spent on Alacantra and Jota. They need to balance the books a bit.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Papabendi » Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:46 pm

They have no interest in a loan correct

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by BenWickes » Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:00 pm

dandeclaret wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:28 pm
It is interesting, but it's also quite narrow. He got 7 goals, and zero assists in 31 appearances (According to this site https://www.premierleague.com/players/1 ... n/overview whereas last season Dwight got 2 goals and 6 assists in 38 appearances. Dwight overall has 5 goals and 12 assists at Premier League level in 61 games, including one assist on the board this season.

It doesn't feel as though the attacking contributions are materially different?
Pace - we don't have, he does. Free kick at dead balls - we don't have, he does. I'm not even going to compare goal/assist ratio as he's already got two plusses on what we already have. Those can be worked on. We are also lacking an effective right sided player. He ticks a few boxes we can't tick at present.
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KateR
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by KateR » Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:13 pm

I wonder what ALK moneyball app says about him, anyone down loaded the app to check?
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Gordaleman » Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:17 pm

KateR wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:13 pm
I wonder what ALK moneyball app says about him, anyone down loaded the app to check?
It won't say anything that the top clubs don't already know. I think you'll find that the moneyball concept is more about finding hidden gems in amatuer leagues.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by KateR » Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:21 pm

Gordaleman wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:17 pm
It won't say anything that the top clubs don't already know. I think you'll find that the moneyball concept is more about finding hidden gems in amatuer leagues.
it's certainly one way of looking at it for sure

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Gordaleman » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:21 pm

Latest Harry Wilson link. Just published.

https://thetopflight.com/2020/09/25/tra ... n-burnley/

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by ClaretTony » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:28 pm

buzzclarets79 wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:10 pm
CT can't possibly write an article for every player we "enquire" about, I'd suggest if it gets a bit further down the line before he has anything ready to go.

Can maybe see this going through as a loan deal with maybe a optional future fee?
I’ve had them written in good time for Norris & Stephens but if anything happens tomorrow I’ll be caught out because I’ve nothing ready.

I write when I believe it is going to happen. Wilson might or might not but I’ve got nothing as yet to suggest I should rush with anything.
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by ClaretAL » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:32 pm

Int break to come to coincide with the next 10 days...... that int break will be big for us.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Longsider » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:49 pm

ClaretTony wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:28 pm
I’ve had them written in good time for Norris & Stephens but if anything happens tomorrow I’ll be caught out because I’ve nothing ready.

I write when I believe it is going to happen. Wilson might or might not but I’ve got nothing as yet to suggest I should rush with anything.
Do the club give you a cheeky heads up.? You could be making a killing at Ladbrokes.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by NewClaret » Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:21 pm

Longsider wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:49 pm
Do the club give you a cheeky heads up.? You could be making a killing at Ladbrokes.
CT doesn’t like gambling. Or that’s what he tells us to keep getting the tip offs ;)

Bet you haven’t got a Buendia article written either :(

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Bosscat » Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:25 pm

According to the Liverpool Echo 24 minutes ago

https://thetopflight.com/2020/09/25/tra ... n-burnley/

But its only a rumour 😁

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Long Time Lurker » Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:28 pm

KateR wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:13 pm
I wonder what ALK moneyball app says about him, anyone down loaded the app to check?
I could be wrong, but I think a number of false impression are being generated.

ALK only bought into the apps Player Lens and AiScout four weeks ago. That doesn't suggest a long term affiliation with proven statistical tools that could lead to a massive rise in the performance of our recruitment. However, the front and centre mouth pieces of the ALK consortium bid, if it actually exists, have used other analytical scouting tools as part of their work in other team sports.

https://www.sportbusiness.com/news/alk- ... ayer-lens/

https://www.sportbusiness.com/2020/08/a ... mfortable/

So what do we know about these apps

Player Lens

As far as I can see Player Lens is a move to try and change the landscape of the player transfer model. The best description for it would be a disruptive innovation strategy. At the moment agents tout players, clubs contact clubs with no idea if players are available or not and the whole thing is a little inefficient - albeit lucrative for agents.

Player Lens is an attempt to create an easy to navigate market place for the trading of players. Agents or clubs list the players they want to move on ( in terms of permanent signings or loans ). The players can also list themselves. This is done for a small fee and a listing can include analytical data ( by linking to other platforms lie WYSCOUT ) and specific needs, wants and expectation required by clubs, players and agents. The idea being that this will simplify the whole of the transfer process.

It strikes me as the crack dealer approach to market share penetration " the first one is free ". Or in this case the first use of the platform requires a nominal charge. Over time as the way of doing business changes the need for agents decreases. Players and clubs could simply circumvent the service the provide. This could lead then to the implementation of the classic " finders fee " recruitment charge. When a transfer is made Player Lens takes a fee from the seller and buyer , in essence allowing them to grab part or all of those juicy agent fees.

Moving on the platform could be extended to general sponsorship contracts. A player needs a little extra money so they make their availability known. Corporate site members looking for somebody to open a supermarket or wear their trainers for a fee can then simply look at who is available to sign on the dotted line. Player Lens would then take a finders fee from that. I'm just guessing on this part, but it is what I would do next, along with other things.

Think of it as EBAY for player transfers ( with or without the auction element )

The founder of Player Lens is Lee Hemmings, who used to be a commodity dealer.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ng-history and https://www.playerlens.com and https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/play ... din-471636

The other Directors are

Liz Ellen - https://twitter.com/sportslawliz?lang=en and https://lividasport.com

Mark Betteridge - of the seemingly failed and defunct http://myeye.world and https://secure.toolkitfiles.co.uk/clien ... UNCHES.pdf

Jose Ramon Capdevila - Real Madrid’s former head of football operations

AiScout

This one is a bit trickier, because it appears to be in the Beta ( initial ) stages of development. As far as I can tell it seems to be a platform that will allow for the remote assessment of players.

Normally, development players attend trials in person. The clubs look at them over the course of a day or days and decide who they want to offer contracts to. This app seems to revolve around a series of trial tests that any person can engage with ( using their phone and possibly some means of motion capture ). The user runs through the tests and the generated data creates a profile for them. Interested clubs can then remotely view this data, watch the players performance and decide whether to offer them a contract or invite them for a trial.

The same software could be used to create profiles for established development players. In these cases the app data would also be supported by any data available through established scouting platforms.

I'm not sure what the profit key will be for this app, because it is still in its infancy. I suspect it will be another sign up fee ( for anyone wanting to put themselves in front of clubs ) and a finders fee. Given the current restrictions to movement this idea strikes me as having some potential. At the very least it could allow clubs to view more potential development candidates. However, it is basically just an online trial portal and it could possibly lead to the platform being swamped by eager sign ups ( from players or parents of players ) hoping to gain a career in football - despite them not having the ability to make the grade.

Think online X-Factor for development squad positions.

https://www.apollo.io/companies/AiScout ... hart=count

Darren Peries ( Founder ) and Mark Russell ( Operations Director ) don't seem to have a huge amount of experience in Football. That certainly doesn't prevent them from having a good idea for an app that relates to football. In terms of their direct commercial experience they appear to be more comfortable in the restaurant sector, which accounts for most of their CV details.

Conclusion

Neither of these recently bought apps have established themselves in the market place. So I can't see how anybody would presume that they would automatically result in a big improvement to our recruitment. Some of the articles jumping on the Money Ball idea are also very wide of the mark. I think this was just lazy journalism and people not looking at the true impact analytical scouting had at Oakland or how other clubs go about things.

Brentford are certainly in the business of speculating to accumulate when it comes to player transfers, but even they don't describe themselves as a Money Ball team and neither would I. While they might employ analytics the way they look to get value is not by sticking to the numbers ( like statistical sycophants ), but by using their common sense and deductive reasoning to read between and around the numbers.

https://talksport.com/football/fa-cup/6 ... er-fa-cup/

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/271 ... ge-budgets

https://eflanalysis.com/analysis/moneyb ... statistics

Everybody has access to the same statistical data these days so having it conveys no real advantage, being without it would be a disadvantage though. The advantage comes from the application of data and not the availability of data.

Success is about having quality people who can see patterns within the data, make profitable connections and realise avenues of interest that aren't immediately obvious. If you give a paintbrush and paint to a talented artist they will create a valuable work of art. However, give the same tools to a toddler and you will get a messy house.

The quality of the data is important, but the quality of the people interpreting and working creatively with that data is always a lot more important.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by boatshed bill » Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:28 pm

Bosscat wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:25 pm
According to the Liverpool Echo 24 minutes ago

https://thetopflight.com/2020/09/25/tra ... n-burnley/

But its only a rumour 😁

I can only see this happening if we sell Tarky,
And it still leaves us with a massive hole to fill.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Long Time Lurker » Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:56 pm

Harry Wilson - Some Details

https://fbref.com/en/players/c6dc9ecd/Harry-Wilson

I think somebody asked how you can tell if a player is two footed or they rely on one foot. The stats in the previous link can help with that. Wilson made a total of 511 left footed passes and 61 right footed passes last season.

In terms of type of goals scored and foot used we have this page of information.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/harry-w ... rt=&stand=

A number of other things stood out for me when I looked through those stats. He offers less progressive distance than Mc Neil in terms of carrying the ball forward or passing. In the playing time section Bournemouth appeared to take a big hit to their plus/minus goal ratio when he was on the pitch.

If I had to guess then I would say that his propensity to take on risky long shots himself, instead of creating chances for others, had an impact. Clubs have begun to pay more attention to the quality of chances in recent years, which has led to fewer riskier shots being taken and putting attackers in positions to take riskier shots. A player that drifts in to shoot from long range at every opportunity will find their effectiveness reduced against better opposition ( like EPL teams in contrast with Championship teams ). They are also denying other players in better positions scoring opportunities.

Wilson also offers very little defensively, which could affect the +/- goal ratio.

This page gives some more stats https://www.sofascore.com/player/harry-wilson/355528

and this article has some interesting information / observations in it https://medium.com/@allstatsarentwe/whe ... 9d0b28c9b7

Personally, I think Wilson is a fairly good technical player who struggled with the move up to the EPL last season and although he has the potential to improve parts of his game ( or change the way he plays ) I don't think we would see a massive increase in his performance over the long term.

More importantly, he seems to be a bad fit for the way that we currently play ( unless we are shifting towards a 4-4-1-1 with him as a free role attacking midfielder or Mc Neil is leaving ) and he lacks the robust physicality to excel in the EPL. That can be addressed, but for a club record fee I would be expecting a player to tick a lot more boxes than set piece threat and risky long range shot taker who could leave us exposed on the wing when he drifts in and offers little defensively when he doesn't.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Down_Rover » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:01 pm

Long Time Lurker wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:28 pm
I could be wrong, but I think a number of false impression are being generated.

ALK only bought into the apps Player Lens and AiScout four weeks ago. That doesn't suggest a long term affiliation with proven statistical tools that could lead to a massive rise in the performance of our recruitment. However, the front and centre mouth pieces of the ALK consortium bid, if it actually exists, have used other analytical scouting tools as part of their work in other team sports.

https://www.sportbusiness.com/news/alk- ... ayer-lens/

https://www.sportbusiness.com/2020/08/a ... mfortable/

So what do we know about these apps

Player Lens

As far as I can see Player Lens is a move to try and change the landscape of the player transfer model. The best description for it would be a disruptive innovation strategy. At the moment agents tout players, clubs contact clubs with no idea if players are available or not and the whole thing is a little inefficient - albeit lucrative for agents.

Player Lens is an attempt to create an easy to navigate market place for the trading of players. Agents or clubs list the players they want to move on ( in terms of permanent signings or loans ). The players can also list themselves. This is done for a small fee and a listing can include analytical data ( by linking to other platforms lie WYSCOUT ) and specific needs, wants and expectation required by clubs, players and agents. The idea being that this will simplify the whole of the transfer process.

It strikes me as the crack dealer approach to market share penetration " the first one is free ". Or in this case the first use of the platform requires a nominal charge. Over time as the way of doing business changes the need for agents decreases. Players and clubs could simply circumvent the service the provide. This could lead then to the implementation of the classic " finders fee " recruitment charge. When a transfer is made Player Lens takes a fee from the seller and buyer , in essence allowing them to grab part or all of those juicy agent fees.

Moving on the platform could be extended to general sponsorship contracts. A player needs a little extra money so they make their availability known. Corporate site members looking for somebody to open a supermarket or wear their trainers for a fee can then simply look at who is available to sign on the dotted line. Player Lens would then take a finders fee from that. I'm just guessing on this part, but it is what I would do next, along with other things.

Think of it as EBAY for player transfers ( with or without the auction element )

The founder of Player Lens is Lee Hemmings, who used to be a commodity dealer.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ng-history and https://www.playerlens.com and https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/play ... din-471636

The other Directors are

Liz Ellen - https://twitter.com/sportslawliz?lang=en and https://lividasport.com

Mark Betteridge - of the seemingly failed and defunct http://myeye.world and https://secure.toolkitfiles.co.uk/clien ... UNCHES.pdf

Jose Ramon Capdevila - Real Madrid’s former head of football operations

AiScout

This one is a bit trickier, because it appears to be in the Beta ( initial ) stages of development. As far as I can tell it seems to be a platform that will allow for the remote assessment of players.

Normally, development players attend trials in person. The clubs look at them over the course of a day or days and decide who they want to offer contracts to. This app seems to revolve around a series of trial tests that any person can engage with ( using their phone and possibly some means of motion capture ). The user runs through the tests and the generated data creates a profile for them. Interested clubs can then remotely view this data, watch the players performance and decide whether to offer them a contract or invite them for a trial.

The same software could be used to create profiles for established development players. In these cases the app data would also be supported by any data available through established scouting platforms.

I'm not sure what the profit key will be for this app, because it is still in its infancy. I suspect it will be another sign up fee ( for anyone wanting to put themselves in front of clubs ) and a finders fee. Given the current restrictions to movement this idea strikes me as having some potential. At the very least it could allow clubs to view more potential development candidates. However, it is basically just an online trial portal and it could possibly lead to the platform being swamped by eager sign ups ( from players or parents of players ) hoping to gain a career in football - despite them not having the ability to make the grade.

Think online X-Factor for development squad positions.

https://www.apollo.io/companies/AiScout ... hart=count

Darren Peries ( Founder ) and Mark Russell ( Operations Director ) don't seem to have a huge amount of experience in Football. That certainly doesn't prevent them from having a good idea for an app that relates to football. In terms of their direct commercial experience they appear to be more comfortable in the restaurant sector, which accounts for most of their CV details.

Conclusion

Neither of these recently bought apps have established themselves in the market place. So I can't see how anybody would presume that they would automatically result in a big improvement to our recruitment. Some of the articles jumping on the Money Ball idea are also very wide of the mark. I think this was just lazy journalism and people not looking at the true impact analytical scouting had at Oakland or how other clubs go about things.

Brentford are certainly in the business of speculating to accumulate when it comes to player transfers, but even they don't describe themselves as a Money Ball team and neither would I. While they might employ analytics the way they look to get value is not by sticking to the numbers ( like statistical sycophants ), but by using their common sense and deductive reasoning to read between and around the numbers.

https://talksport.com/football/fa-cup/6 ... er-fa-cup/

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/271 ... ge-budgets

https://eflanalysis.com/analysis/moneyb ... statistics

Everybody has access to the same statistical data these days so having it conveys no real advantage, being without it would be a disadvantage though. The advantage comes from the application of data and not the availability of data.

Success is about having quality people who can see patterns within the data, make profitable connections and realise avenues of interest that aren't immediately obvious. If you give a paintbrush and paint to a talented artist they will create a valuable work of art. However, give the same tools to a toddler and you will get a messy house.

The quality of the data is important, but the quality of the people interpreting and working creatively with that data is always a lot more important.
1. Just wanted to fill space with a copy of a LTL post

2. What’s it got to do with Harry?

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by scouseclaret » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:06 pm

Bosscat wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:25 pm
According to the Liverpool Echo 24 minutes ago

https://thetopflight.com/2020/09/25/tra ... n-burnley/

But its only a rumour 😁
Can’t actually see anything on the Echo website to confirm this reported report...

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Mala591 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:07 pm

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z2xdCvhvyqY

Hurry up Harry and make your mind up. We'll see you down the pub.
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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Bosscat » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:12 pm

scouseclaret wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:06 pm
Can’t actually see anything on the Echo website to confirm this reported report...
I did say its a rumour 😂😂😂

The web page I posted said in its 1st paragraph

According to recent reports published by the Liverpool Echo, Harry Wilson is all set to leave Liverpool on a permanent deal.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by scouseclaret » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:24 pm

Yeah but the point is that click bait site is saying that the Echo is saying it’s a done deal, but it isn’t.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by ClaretTony » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:27 pm

scouseclaret wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:24 pm
Yeah but the point is that click bait site is saying that the Echo is saying it’s a done deal, but it isn’t.
If we are going to sign him there is no deal done

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Gordaleman » Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:30 am

Personally, I know nothing about Wilson but with CIES Football Observatory valuing him at £29.9 million https://www.lancs.live/sport/football/t ... l-18998031 then I'm more than willing to give him a chance. Especially if we get him at less than half that price, which now seems quite possible.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by bobinho » Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:41 am

The list of requirements of a new wide player are endless... right footed? No, both footed. Young, good for the future? No, PL ready. End of career? No, sell on value required. Steady away? Well, yeah but with pace. Brittle or ever ready, well, we know that don’t we. Sounds great but to have ALL these things means two things. 1. He will be snapped up by 18 of the other PL clubs before we get a look in, and 2. Unaffordable for us.

Harry Wilson is right on The financial edge of what we can do imho, but it’s garlicks opinion that matters, not mine. And if someone else is interested in him, we lose out, IRRELEVANT of who the other party is.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Mattster » Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:18 pm

Wilson is of the age we should be targetting but unless he comes on leaps and bounds the rumoured fees are probably the peak of his value.

For the amount mooted and the wage it would take we could sign Oseyi-Samuel and Nathan Holland with some left over. Would they make the same instant impact? Debatable but they would provide more depth to the squad and more potential to return the investment.

Not opposed to Wilson but unless we can make a lot of the fee add ons then it's a gamble going all in.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Long Time Lurker » Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:39 pm

Gordaleman wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:30 am
Personally, I know nothing about Wilson but with CIES Football Observatory valuing him at £29.9 million https://www.lancs.live/sport/football/t ... l-18998031 then I'm more than willing to give him a chance. Especially if we get him at less than half that price, which now seems quite possible.
I would take that valuation with a rather liberal dose of salt.

The same site values Charlie Taylor at 4.5m, Tarks at £10.8m and Pope at £12.7m.

In respect to some of the transfers made in this window they have Max Lowe at £4.7m, Jayden Bogle at £12.9m and Eberechi Eze at £10.3m.

I stopped typing in players after those six. Their valuations are very wide of the mark and probably on par with the accuracy of Transfermarkt.

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Re: Harry Wilson

Post by Gordaleman » Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:44 pm

Long Time Lurker wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:39 pm
I would take that valuation with a rather liberal dose of salt.

The same site values Charlie Taylor at 4.5m, Tarks at £10.8m and Pope at £12.7m.

In respect to some of the transfers made in this window they have Max Lowe at £4.7m, Jayden Bogle at £12.9m and Eberechi Eze at £10.3m.

I stopped typing in players after those six. Their valuations are very wide of the mark and probably on par with the accuracy of Transfermarkt.
You're probaly right but Klopp wouldn't have kept him as long as he has unless he offers something decent.

It could well be that he's a very good player that just can't get into a team of superstars. If he comes, let's hope so.
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